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Asking and Telling: Lieberman and the DADT repeal

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By Julia Rosen

Get ready for Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell to be all over the media starting tomorrow. The Senate Armed Services Committee, chaired by Senator Levin will bring the heads of all four branches of the military to testify about DADT on Tuesday and Thursday. It is some will be in favor of repeal more than others. One of the big questions is just how strongly Gen. James Conway, head of the Marines, will oppose changing the policy. He is known widely as not being in favor of change to DADT. The Republicans have been looking forward to getting him on the stand.

Meanwhile, it appears that Senator Leiberman will be the lead Senator introducing repeal legislation in the Senate. The Advocate:

In a statement released by his office, Lieberman said, “I will be proud to be a sponsor of the important effort to enable patriotic gay Americans to defend our national security and our founding values of freedom and opportunity. I have opposed the current policy of preventing gay Americans from openly serving in the military since its enactment in 1993. To exclude one group of Americans from serving in the armed forces is contrary to our fundamental principles as outlined in the Declaration of Independence and weakens our defenses by denying our military the service of a large group of Americans who can help our cause. I am grateful for the leadership of President Obama to repeal the policy and the support of Secretary Gates and Chief of Staff Admiral Mullen.”

No specific details on the legislation have been released. The big question is the timeline and just how aggressive Lieberman will be in pushing to get legislation passed this year. There are secondary questions about just how this gets through Congress.

Nicholson said the stand-alone bill could also be incorporated into the Department of Defense authorization bill, also known as the National Defense Authorization Act, while the funding bill is still in the Senate Armed Services Committee. Repeal advocates generally agree that ideally a repeal measure would be included in the original draft of the NDAA — or the “chairman’s mark” — before it comes out of committee, as opposed to either trying to add an amendment to the defense funding bill later or passing free-standing repeal legislation.

“It’s of course possible for a stand-alone bill to be inserted into the chairman’s mark of the NDAA, and we hope that will be the next step because I think that’s safest option for getting ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ repealed in 2010,” Nicholson said.

Got all that? The stand-alone bill would be the legislation that Lieberman will introduce and work to whip his fellow Senators to become co-sponsors. The reality is that it’s much easier to get repeal passed if it becomes part of a larger “must pass bill” like the defense authorization bill. That’s how hate crimes legislation got passed last year. Generally speaking, the earlier it gets attached to the authorization bill, the easier that path is (ie. needs less votes).

So, if this bill has a date-certain for repeal and gets added as a “chairman’s mark” in the Armed Services Committee, that Levin chairs that is the easiest path for passage.

Stay tuned this week as this story develops. There are a lot of unknowns right now. We should know a lot more by the end of the week than we do now.

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163 Comments

  • 1. Bolt  |  February 22, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    I'm against DADT; however, it's too bad that our equality comes at the expense of funding a war. Aren't we being hypocritical by taking our fair share of equality, but shoveling money into a war that doesn't make us any safer, or stronger?

  • 2. cc  |  February 22, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    I hope this gets passed and passed soon. Every day I live in fear that my partner will lose her job due to this. Even worse is the fact that while she is overseas I haven't been able to have much contact with her. I can send her letters as a friend but I can't send her a letter as her girlfriend. It's been a horrible strain on our relationship, and I honestly don't know if we can hold it together.

    Before Prop 8 passed we talked about marriage after she finished her service. Then with the passage of Prop 8 our dreams faded away and I started to blame her. I hated that we choose to wait. Within a few months she shipped out and I haven't seen her since. Thankfully her parents are supportive of our relationship and give me updates whenever they can. I don’t know what I would do without them.

    DADT, needs to end and it needs to end now.

  • 3. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 22, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    What pisses me the most is that none of the countries in the world that allowed gays to serve openly in the military have experienced any serious problems with that! But the lies about the contrary continue to be spread even by highest-rank military personnel who only push their bigotry and homophobia!

    What do American servicemen think? — that gays with American citizenship are somehow different from those other gays in European military services? that they, once allowed to be open about their homosexuality, will turn into sexed-up and hungry-for-love stalkers for those poor and defenseless straight servicemen? Who are the sissies here? Playing victims here would be laughablepeople who are supposed to defend their nation are the victims of gays? Come on! Do you, guys, even believe your own lies? Or you just do what your priest told you to?

    And just like that, they refuse to believe that marriage equality would not change anything for heterosexual couples who want to get married or are already married — they scare us with made-up stories that people will be divorcing each other because their marriage now is so gay. What a load of crap! This never happened in those 7 countries that already enacted marriage equality. And it will never happen in USA! I wish people would stop listening to liars who tell them how they should think, feel and react, and would use their own heads for a change to see for themselves how bigoted and unsubstantiated all those arguments really are!

    –Kirill, Russia

  • 4. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 22, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    I agree that the sooner DADT's repeal is effected, the better off we will be. And yes, it will probably stand a better chance of being repealed if it is added in as part of the NDAA. But frankly, I don't care HOW DADT is repealed, just as long as it IS repealed. DADT is a shanda! Of course, discrimination against anyone is a shanda!

  • 5. Felyx  |  February 22, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    BTW, March 2 is the date Congress implicitly recognizes the DC Marriage Ammendment. Washington will have SSM and the Federal Government will have passed it. I don't know of any pending DC budget legislation going through so it looks like no riders to stop it either.

    I am hoping that Congresses defiance of its own law will figure prominently in the upcoming DOMA challenges!!!
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-01-13-DC

  • 6. Urbain  |  February 22, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    Very well put, Krill.

  • 7. Linda  |  February 23, 2010 at 12:35 am

    cc–Stay strong! You can survive this; you and your girlfriend can make it. Remember, your commitment to each other isn't dependent on a legal contract, or on how you are perceived by others. It's dependent on the steadfast love you have for each other. Love is active; treat it as a verb. Love your girlfriend and support her. Don't doubt her love for you.

    Yes, it's hard being separated from the one you love. But…isn't it wonderful to have someone you love that dearly? Don't give that up; it's so very rare!

    Love,
    Linda (who currently lives 2800 miles away from the love of her life)

  • 8. JimiG  |  February 23, 2010 at 12:40 am

    As a proud Veteran and Supporter of SSM and the LGBT community once again I must say it scares me that a small community of homophobics are trying to destroy careers and families.

    I am not Gay but I have served with some outstanding officers and enlisted men and women. I placed my life in their hands and would do it again in a heartbeat. It is because of these fine individuals that I support Gays in the military. The military is all about honor and pride they should not be forced to live a lie that is where the harm comes from, not from being gay but having to hide it from those you stand side by side with.

    The military has more problems with personal then sexual preference, need I mention the tail gate navy officers or the multiple cases of group rape by straight officers and enlisted.

  • 9. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 12:44 am

    Gay Marriage in Utah by 2013?
    http://www.goddiscussion.com/6243/gay-marriage-in

    I love it!!!

  • 10. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 12:46 am

    Ummm…he's a Russian, not a shrimp! Hehehehe!

    (It's K i r i l l !)

  • 11. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 12:47 am

    Utah?
    LDS home?
    The one that donated 20 million to support PropH8 lies?
    If LDS is nuked there, then it looks believable. :)

  • 12. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 12:51 am

    Thank you, Felyx!
    It's the second person who called me a krill :)
    I even imagined that little shrimp they think I am :)
    First one to call me that was Straight Grandmother.
    Not that I'm making a black list or anything. :)
    It's fine, I don't care… Really…

  • 13. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:11 am

    The prediction if you read the article is Universal Marriage by 2016. This is based on statistical analysis of opinion polls.

    I am also factoring in lawsuits and Judicial rulings to say it will probably come even sooner. I don't tell everything I know because I don't like looking the fool for spreading rumors or gossip so I try to stick with mostly facts…but there are some religious scandles brewing…that and there are some international laws that are coming into play. I think there will be a sudden shift in consciousness on this issue…soon, very soon. Walkers ruling, plus the DC bill, plus MA's suit over DOMA (http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/state_of_massachusetts_sues_federal_government_over_doma) among others, are going to converge. While this is going on there is some unnoticed pressure being put on certain nations to recognize international marriage rights (and not just gay marriage rights!) Money talks and some have alot of it. Moroever, there are some big name religions doing some very 'no-no' things. It is just a matter of time before governments and civil authorities bring out the switch and dunce cap! Nothing like being told to sit down and shut up so stop lunatic ranting in its tracks!

    So I have a sound reason for being optimistic. If it takes 3-4 years to establish residency in Canada (I believe) then Kirill could very well be waiting for citizenship while Universal Marriage is being passed!

    Realistic Hopes,
    Felyx

  • 14. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:14 am

    Do you have a better suggestion? Or simply complaints about tactics used to secure your equality?

  • 15. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:15 am

    Got your back lil' bro'! ;`)

  • 16. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:22 am

    I said it before repealing DADT is a very huge step in the mind set of changing the minds of Hateros……When somebody enters the armed forces they instantly become Heros……When a mother and/or fathers son and/or daughter's life is saved by another service member who is in fact LGBTQQI….it is most likely they will be like…."This person save my son's life….he is a hero…and should be treated like one….treating him like a 2nd class citizen is un-American"……. Secondly when there are openly LGBTQQI people in the armed forces that hero complex will step in as well….it really is that simple….that is what they are scared about…..it will just be another group of people that have seen the light…hehehe…..<3….Ronnie

  • 17. fiona64  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:24 am

    What Linda said. Love is a verb. :-)

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 18. Ozymandias ('ca  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:31 am

    DADT repeal is, to me anyway, fundamentally important – right up there with ENDA and Marriage Equality.

    Not only would repeal end blatant discrimination against Gay soldiers (and it IS blatant, just look up 'moral waivers' and you'll see what I mean) and will allow the military to actively recruit qualified men and women in key fields, but it's an incredibly powerful symbol. I have posted before about this, but the military has a very strong measure of respect among U.S. citizens – seeing strong men and women stand up and say 'I'm Gay, I'm a Lesbian, and I am protecting your freedoms' while in uniform will send ripples throughout American society and will force many people to re-evaluate their opinions of LGBT Americans. IMO, anyway.

    Love,

    Ozy

  • 19. Ozymandias ('ca  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:32 am

    JimiG, thanks much for your service and your support!!

    Love,

    Ozy

  • 20. Urbain  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:32 am

    Sorry for the typo.

  • 21. Urbain  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:34 am

    One typo and people assume you're intentionally calling people shrimp. Sorry, K-I-R-I-L-L. I'm not a hater. Just an idiot.

  • 22. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:59 am

    @Urban
    Oh, please don't take offense! I didn't, absolutely!
    And I didn't assume anything bad!
    The font here is small, the letters are not so clear, and the names sometimes are complicated and unknown to people from other countries and cultures.
    I never even comment on that.
    My apologies for Felyx, he didn't mean to rant, too. It was just funny that it is a real word — krill.

  • 23. Alan E.  |  February 23, 2010 at 2:02 am

    What else has Judge Walker been up to lately? This article in the SF Chronicle (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/02/23/BAPH1C5D0J.DTL) says:

    [Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker] dismissed Stan Cooper's damage suit in 2008, despite finding that the Federal Aviation Administration and the Social Security Administration had violated Cooper's rights by sharing his confidential personal and medical records. [Walker] said Cooper hadn't been harmed financially and that federal privacy law doesn't authorize suits for emotional distress.

    …the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco said the law was intended to compensate people for harm they suffer when a federal agency intentionally discloses their confidential records.

    See, he's not some biased judge. He was simply calling it as he saw it. His ruling gives me more confidence, not because he ruled against a guy with AIDS, but because he took time to look at the facts and make a ruling based on his judgment of the case. Our case had a lot of facts, where the H8ers didn't have much going for them.

  • 24. Alan E.  |  February 23, 2010 at 2:06 am

    I"m sorry you cannot say what you want while she is away. I'm sure the government would have a field day if you were allowed to say what you want to her, at your partner's expense. Stay strong! I would suggest that you write the letters, but don't send them out. Save them until she comes home so you can show her how much you supported her while she was away. Just don't accidentally send them out.

  • 25. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 2:21 am

    @Urbain,

    I thought it was funny too….I even laughed at it. Chill and don't stress over it! It is all good here….there is love….feel the love man! |`) Peace Felyx

  • 26. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 2:24 am

    They didn't have alot going for them even BEFORE the case! LOL

  • 27. Linda  |  February 23, 2010 at 2:24 am

    CC–I didn't mean to diminish what you are experiencing. Not at all. Believe me, I can understand your angst. I have struggled with my long-distance relationship, too. It's hard, because living apart like that requires that you maintain separate lives. And that's what hurts the most, I think. The thought of her going about her work, socializing, enjoying herself….how can she do that when she's apart from you? At least those are the feelings I've had. But the thing is, she has to. And you have to, too.

    What Alan suggested is good–write the letters; or better yet, journal. Vent! Write exactly what you're feeling. You need to be able to express your hurt and frustration. But DON'T send those letters! Your girlfriend has to stay strong; and a big source of strength for her is your love for her. Trust her to love you. And, as hard as it seems, enjoy your life right now, even though you are not with your love.

    It is hard. I am sorry you have to go through this. But isn't it worth it?

    Love,
    Linda

  • 28. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 2:26 am

    @Urbain
    See, I did it, too, in my comment to you above — I've just realized I've written "Urban," not "Urbain" — missing "i," just like you did! I'm sorry! I keep laughing, it was completely unintentional! I'm not a hater, too. My sincere apologies!

  • 29. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 2:32 am

    @Kirill,
    Immigration Law…wow! That is a tough one! I have friends who have gone through it but I never really paid that much attention. No wonder so many just opt for fraud marriage!!

    I have been looking at all the ways to make the move and I am stunned….you just don't pick and leave that is for sure! That being said, I know it is not impossible, and I know that if you were (my geographical) here anyway, that you would not be deported, that I know I can get away with. I have looked into employee sponsorship and asylum as they seem the best options. I will have to see what exactly Richard knows. Being Jewish (heritage-wise) seems to hold some merit.

    But still, damn…not an easy process for either the US or Canada! Will have to talk to you more on this later.

    Stunned,
    Felyx

  • 30. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 2:35 am

    Vote on silliness of Shrimp and City Folk?

    Seems the /i's/ have it! Hehehehehehe!!!

    Felix uh Felyx oh WTH!!!!

  • 31. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 23, 2010 at 2:46 am

    After Question 1 passed in Maine, I would personally bet against gay marriage in Utah by 2013. However, I'll confidently bet that DADT and Prop 8 will be history and that New York and Rhode Island will be in the pro-equality column by then. Yeah, not much of a bettor. 😉

  • 32. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:01 am

    It was a statistical trend analysis…obviously Iowa way bucked the trend already. But that doesn't matter, what matters is that the world is getting to be a better place rapidly!

    Homophobia is not so much an overt prejudice but somewhat more of an internal one. As people learn to overcome any and all prejudices the world improves.

    Purple, really deep purple….Ronnie, wanna be a beausmaid?!!! Hehehehehe! Felyx

  • 33. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:07 am

    Sure…why not…..<3…Ronnie

  • 34. waxr  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:13 am

    Alan,
    What are you reading?
    The article says that the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reversed Walkers decision and reinstated Cooper's damage suit, as would be right.

  • 35. fiona64  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:13 am

    Dear Friends:

    I am having a hard few days. The business with my former friend going all over the internet posting negative and inaccurate reviews of my books (including describing my historical fiction novel as "slash," which is industry-speak for gay pornography) has really worn me out. Combine this with a three-day sinus infection, and I have completely run out of spoons (see this link for explanation). I am probably going to be a little quiet for a few days.

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 36. Alan E.  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:16 am

    They reversed his decision, yes, but my point is that he isn't a party-line or activist type of judge.

  • 37. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:18 am

    Oh, the moral zeitgeist is changing, it's just a matter of how fast. NOM, the Prop 8ers, etc. are on the wrong side of history – and every year that passes they lose support and we gain it. :)

  • 38. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:19 am

    :( We'll be thinking of you! This too shall pass.

  • 39. waxr  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:21 am

    Daily Bible Passage:

    Song of Songs 8:1-2
    Oh, how I wish you were my little brother,
    nursing at my mother’s breasts;
    if I saw you outside, I could kiss you –
    surely no one would despise me!
    I would lead you and bring you to my mother’s house,
    to the chamber of the one who bore me.
    I would give you spiced wine to drink,
    the nectar of my pomegranates.

    Note:
    Line 6 follows the LXX. See Song 3:4

  • 40. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:21 am

    Ditto

  • 41. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:21 am

    Just remember, negative publicity is publicity!!! Work it to your advantage!! Felyx

  • 42. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:24 am

    I hope you feel better…xoxo…<3…Ronnie

  • 43. fiona64  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:32 am

    One of my friends who had read the memoir went to the review page and posted her comments — including what she knew about the situation (i.e., that R. was being vindictive, why he had ended the friendship, etc.). That took a lot of the teeth out of his vicious remarks about the memoir. I reported the review of the novel as inaccurate. Honestly, I understand that not everyone is going to like my work. But to go around and post reviews that are nasty and inaccurate is nothing but malice.

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 44. fiona64  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:33 am

    PS to all:

    Thank you for your kindness and supportive remarks.

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 45. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:36 am

    @Fiona
    Why don't you give us a link to some report of his like that?
    We'll vote it down or something… Anything we can help with…

  • 46. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:38 am

    We hear tons about Christian Maggie and her 'born out of wedlock' child….but what about Mr. Maggie?

    Seems he exists but is nowhere near NOM!!!
    http://indiana.bilerico.com/2009/09/maggie_gallag

    (Maybe Hindus are more open-minded!)

  • 47. fiona64  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:51 am

    Dear Kirill:

    That is so kind of you. The link is here: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/4319

    You have to "purchase" the book in order to review it. You can choose $0 as your price because of the way I have set it up.

    He did make a mistake when he wrote his review; he did not put any stars. That means that my average is not affected by his mean words. So, if you decide to put up a review, please remember to put stars.

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 48. fiona64  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:52 am

    PS to Kirill et al:

    I will find links for the other reviews; he has put up the same reviews on Facebook's "Visual Bookshelf" (which is where I reported him already).

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 49. fiona64  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:53 am

    And now, it seems that he has deleted his review of the book. I did not ask to have it pulled down, so he must have done so himself. Nevertheless, it would be kind if you would read the book and post your thoughts.

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 50. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:54 am

    "The National Organization for Marriage – Rhode Island (NOM – Rhode Island) is thrilled to announce its first annual "Celebrate Marriage and Family Day" on August 16th from 3 – 8 pm on the beautiful waterfront property of the Aldrich Mansion (www.aldrichmansion.com) in Warwick, Rhode Island. This positive and encouraging event will include live music, children's activities, 2nd Honeymoon and vacation giveaways, a chance to bring a picnic or purchase food on site to enjoy while overlooking Narragansett Bay, and an ice cream social."

    I am sooooo thinking of showing up with a man and making a scene that will shake things up…….<3…Ronnie

  • 51. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 3:57 am

    wait was that last august or next august?…anyway If it is a annual thing I WILL BE THERE NEXT AUGUST….you hear that Haggie…..be afraid be very afraid!!!!…….<3…Ronnie

  • 52. Linda  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:00 am

    Ronnie–show up, but don't make a scene. Let THEM make the scene. Be kind and gentle and loving, and totally surprised that you are not welcome! And have someone there video-taping the whole thing. :)

  • 53. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:09 am

    By make a scene….I mean show up to take the vows and participate in all the events….after all it says….“Celebrate Marriage and Family Day”….not "Celebrate Heterosexual Marriage and Opposite Gender Parents and Family Day"….if it is a public event they cannot do anything…and if they do…I will sue….bwaaaaaaa…..<3…Ronnie

  • 54. Alan E.  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:13 am

    People who choose to be offended by others' diverse attempts to gain the favor of the divine, simply because they pray differently or not at all, should be exposed for the illiberal, intolerant, small-minded bigots they are, not catered to by the Supreme Court. The words "separation of church and state" never appear in the Constitution, but the "free exercise" of religion is our explicitly guaranteed birthright.

    So what exactly is her defense against SSM?

  • 55. Linda  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:14 am

    Yep! We're on the same page, here. Go for it!
    Linda

  • 56. fiona64  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:21 am

    Looks like it was last August, since they are talking about how Mr. Maggie was nowhere to be seen.

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 57. Linda  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:25 am

    Alan–By allowing ssm, we are taking away her right to freely exercise her religious beliefs. In order for her to be completely free in her right to her beliefs, she has to have EVERYONE living their lives according to her religious rules.

    Think I'm joking? That is their view. And they feel fully within their rights to assert their religion; after all, our Founding Fathers really intended the USA to be a Christian nation….they just didn't say so. Christianity is, and should be, the favored religion here (in their opinion), and it should be the basis for all legislation. Otherwise, God is going to curse our country, send all sorts of disasters, and bring about the End Times!!! (which, seems to me, would be a desirable thing for Christians. Isn't that when they get to go to Heaven and see all the bad, sinful people sent to hell?)

    Love,
    Linda

  • 58. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:26 am

    So there is a FB page for NOM…2 million for marriage…it only has 35 people…….bwaaaaaaaaa…..<3…Ronnie

  • 59. waxr  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:27 am

    It is curious that although she has been married for 17 years to Raman Srivastav, she still uses her maiden name, "Gallagher".

    There is nothing wrong with career women using their maiden names, but when a woman is a strong proponent of marriage, I would expect her to use her married name.

  • 60. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:32 am

    Oh SHITE!!!……pwnd…..good observation waxr…..<3…Ronnie

  • 61. christina  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:33 am

    theres a few of them. the actual NOM page has 7k members – http://www.facebook.com/Nation4Marriage?ref=searc

    theres another one with the same logo that has 375 members

  • 62. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:37 am

    sneaky little buggers….but still ours reached 2 million last week and right now it is at: 2,103,035 members
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=28360068651

  • 63. waxr  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:40 am

    The repealing of DADT will be a huge step towards marriage equality. It will be hard for opponents to argue that gays and lesbians are good enough to fight for our country, but not good enough to marry the person of their choice.

  • 64. christina  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:45 am

    theres at least 2 of thos also lol. im joined to this, and the other has 2 million also i believe

  • 65. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:48 am

    Miss you, Fiona!!!! Hang in there, baby!!!!

  • 66. Sheryl Carver  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:55 am

    The Palm Center released their study on the 25 countries that allow gays to serve openly in the military. It's all very interesting, but I especially liked this line:

    "In Britain and Canada, roughly two thirds of military respondents in polls said they would refuse to serve with open gays, but when inclusive policies were implemented, no more than three people in each country actually resigned."

    Anyway, here's the link to the full report: http://www.palmcenter.org/files/GaysinForeignMili

    As I've mentioned before, I was in the USAF many moons ago & got out in large part because it was too stressful having to lie about a very important part of my life, so repealing DADT is high on my priority list.

  • 67. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:06 am

    Religious heterosexuals fear that they will lose their god-given right to treat others badly.

    It's the only thing 'the religious' ever fight for.

    Zip through history. It's the truth.

  • 68. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:09 am

    Here is an article i just got via email:

    Greene: Wyoming school district bans Anti-Defamation League's anti-hate banners
    By Susan Greene
    Denver Post Columnist
    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14451599

    The person and group mentioned in this article are both anti-gay and anti-semetic….in other words…BIGOTS!!!!

    "We're a conservative community. We don't need extremist organizations coming in propagating their liberal views," said dance studio owner Joe Fabian, a school board trustee."…………yeah like none of the students at his dance studio are gay…pift!!!

    "Fabian, who was part of the majority vote, takes issue not just with the Gay and Lesbian Fund but also with the ADL, a Jewish organization. He figures both groups threaten to erode the rectitude of his community."……….What the F%^#&$*…is wrong with this F#^^%&ing D#^^% Bag.

    ""We have a different moral standard here," he said, apparently sensing my green horns over the phone. "We don't need people coming in promoting premarital sex, extramarital sex and all other kinds of belief systems."……..Oh SHITE…..so basically he is saying anything that is anti-christian is immoral….You hear that other denominations….the Christian conservative Reich are not your friends….HELLO…HELLO!!!….open your F@&KING eyes and ears……<3…Ronnie

  • 69. cc  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:19 am

    Oh no Linda, you and all the comments have been very helpful. I love the letter idea/ journal, there have been so many things I wanted to write to her. In the end I normally give up and wrote nothing at all or worse it turns into nothing much but an generic "we miss you come home soon," hallmark card. Thank you so much for your guys' support, it really helps.

  • 70. Alan E.  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:20 am

    Take a look at the sign. They are upset that it has the ADL name at the bottom, not the message it is trying to convey.

  • 71. Richard W. Fitch  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:21 am

    All in all it is another fine illustration of how bogged down in party politics our Senate and House Reps has become.

  • 72. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:21 am

    Her husband is a Hindu.

    Now, what would it look like if the very bigots Maggot Gallagher must appeal to for their hard earned money had to come out against Maggie's husband to denounce his faith and his idol worship of a clay god????

    Christians would PERSECUTE the man. So Maggie keeps him away, or she would get no bigot-dollars, which is what she counts on.

    Not rocket science.

    It's about the Benjamins, folks.

    Always was, always is, always will be…

  • 73. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:28 am

    In God We Trust!!!

    In the followers however I have no faith at all!!!!!

  • 74. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:29 am

    Off topic. However, the LGTB community is under attack in the state of Virginia.

    By the very people elected to represent US ALL.

    This is a MUST SEE. Pass it along to friends and allies:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#35531536

  • 75. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:30 am

    It really is disgusting by going against this group who is trying to end all hate, anti-religion included….this bigot is approving and condoning hate crimes…as a matter of fact in the same state that the Shepard-Byrd Act was giving birth from….SHAME!!!!……<3…Ronnie

  • 76. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:36 am

    can put up signs that say,"Gays need not apply"…..this guy needs to be hit in the face..with a fruit a pie…..<3…Ronnie

  • 77. Linda  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:41 am

    CC–My girlfriend and I have finally figured out that we both really do care about all the mundane, routine stuff that the other is doing. So, we communicate all that stuff. We're fortunate that we can email back and forth; I realize you don't have that luxury. But you might keep a journal of sorts, where you just record all your activities (went to the bank, got my hair done, etc.) and then send it off every week. It gives your girlfriend something to picture when she thinks of you. It enables her to stay connected to your life. And it gives you the feeling of carrying on a conversation of sorts with her.
    Just a thought.
    Love,
    Linda

  • 78. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:53 am

    He needs a kick in the ass by the LGTB citizens of Virginia and their allies.

    This needs to be dealt with. Because LGTB citizens CAN NOT be expected to have their rights and protections given/taken, given/taken, given/taken.

    If this giving & taking of rights and protections is even POSSIBLE or LEGAL, then WE AREN'T TRULY CITIZENS of the very country our tax dollars go to support. This IS taxation without representation in its ugliest form. I wholeheartedly question its legality. Would they get away with this from ANY other group is usually the question I ask myself in these situations.

    This is a perfect example of why the only protections and rights we will ever receive that will 'stick' will be a ruling from SCOTUS that is equal to the Civil Rights Act.

    I will accept nothing less. I urge you all to do the same.

  • 79. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:55 am

    Since this is a "Christian" philosophy it must only apply to 'Christians".

    Since "Christians" often feel a need to hide their premarital mistakes then it must be second born "Christian" individuals that suffering so many mental handicaps…..hmmmmm…….

  • 80. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:04 am

    I agree….and I just mentioned this to my mother…..what I don't understand is that the Government keep complaining about the unemployment rate and how tax money goes to unemployment, welfare, and homelessness…..well Mr. Hatero leader of Virgian how the F$#K is passing a law that makes it ok to fire LGBTQQI people as well as reject applicants who are LGBTQQI?…from what I read the current unemployment rate in Virginia is 6.7% and rising….I may be off but still….Mr. Virginia Latero Leader…..you're a FOOL!!!!….a FOOL!!!!……<3…Ronnie
    http://www.bls.gov/web/laumstrk.htm

  • 81. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:07 am

    that was suppose to say how does it help the unemployment rate?…again Mr. Virginia Hatero(I said Latero…hehehe..still works)……You're a FOOL!!!…a FOOL!!!….<3…Ronnie

  • 82. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:08 am

    And here we go again…
    http://www.hotindienews.com/2010/02/23/1019527

  • 83. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:16 am

    Something tells me she won't get a chance to air her bigoted views on the television.
    http://www.icelebz.com/events/miss_beverly_hills_

    Call it a hunch.

  • 84. waxr  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:16 am

    Ozymandias,

    I like your web name. It is an another name for Ramasses II. But as the poet Shelley wrote:

    I met a traveller from an antique land
    Who said:—Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
    Half sunk, a shatter'd visage lies, whose frown
    And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which yet survive, stamp'd on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mock'd them and the heart that fed.
    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
    Nothing beside remains: round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
    The lone and level sands stretch far away.

  • 85. Linda  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:16 am

    It all boils down to this: It doesn't matter what science, medicine, psychology, sociology, and history say, the Christians 'know' that we are not born gay. They 'know' that we've chosen this perverse 'lifestyle' and therefore we do not deserve any rights.

    We need to just 'straighten up' (pun intended) and start doing what they say! And they're going to persecute and bully us until we do just that.

  • 86. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:22 am

    This skank really thinks she is going to win….talk about dumb blonde…..HELLO….HELLO…the reason Miss Cali lost was because of the anti-gay opinion…you haven't even made it to the big show….and you already F-ed it up…..She's a FOOL!!!……You're a FOOL!!!!!…here is a little reminder of what will happen if you continue on your path of bahhh….bahhhh…..sheep….bahhhh..<3…Ronnie:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWH2NXdZ7O8

  • 87. Linda  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:24 am

    GLBT's already fight and die for our country. They just have to do that while remaining in the closet.

  • 88. Phil L  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:28 am

    Maybe someone should point out to her that the "Bible" is also pretty black and white on a woman's place in the home, eating shrimp, wearing clothing made of more than one fabric, and haircuts.

    I would say that doing so would shut her up but people like her just LOVE to only half-harvest the cherry tree.

  • 89. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:33 am

    And Linda, DADT forces LGBTQQI People to lie/omit who they are, what they do in their private lives, who their partners are, what they were like in high school…ect. ect. ect……so in that sense they are being forced to break the honor code that they are suppose to follow….and there are no closets in most barracks…they have trunks….and a trunk is not big enough for two people….I mean big enough for a LGBTQQI person to hide in….JMHO….<3…Ronnie

  • 90. rf  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:33 am

    A woman's place in the home? No. A woman's place is in a motel room with a video camera…

  • 91. John  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:40 am

    Just saw your post over on the article as well.

  • 92. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:42 am

    This is my favorite part right here:

    “The Bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman. In Leviticus it says, ‘If man lies with mankind as he would lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death and their blood shall be upon them.’ The Bible is pretty black and white,” Ashley told Pop Tarts."

    What is that Miss Beverly Hills Lauren Ashley(she has 2 first names)?!….you think all Gay people be put to death?!…."But um I have gay friends…"there's no hate between me and anyone"" (picture the guy in the video I posted when I say this – I have the same sarcasm as him)…No sweetie no hate in believing that all gay people should be killed because Leviticus says so and Levi is the word of God…OMG!!!!….I heart you Lauren Ashley…..kisses…..<3…Ronnie

  • 93. Phil L  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:42 am

    Or until the federal government gets off its bum and realizes that we are tax paying citizens who deserve to be treated as such.

    Once we have our rights under federal law there's not a whole lot that they can do to push us back down from a legal standpoint, is there?

  • 94. John  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:43 am

    And there's the Leviticus quote again, at which point I ask, "What about lesbians?"

  • 95. Phil L  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:43 am

    I decided to reword it a bit over there though to actually mention Leviticus (because Miss Chubby Cheeks California saw fit to do so as well).

  • 96. PDXAndrew  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:49 am

    @Felyx
    "In God We Trust!!! In the followers however I have no faith at all!!!!!"
    ROFL!!!!
    Though those like Maggot Gallagher and Tony Perkins and Andy Repugno and all these other hateros… I believe they're followers only in their own fantasies. The reality of their hate and lies speaks volumes of whom they really follow.

    God works in mysterious ways; Her TRUE diciples probably have no clue to their special status.

    Love, Andrew

  • 97. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:50 am

    As a resident of Beverly Hills, it makes me want to puke that she is representing my city.

    I think I actually DID throw up in my mouth a little bit.

    But that was only after looking at the photos. ; )

    (Couldn't resist.)

  • 98. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:50 am

    LOL- I feel like I have a target on my back now ha-ha.

    Many of you may have noticed that I have poor spelling. And I never said anything but there is a reason for it. I had an injury as a child and a couple fingers on my right hand don't work like they should. Frequently you will see letters transposed liek instead of like. Or you will see missing spaces with words run together. Basically my right hand does not keep up with my left hand in typing and the bumb fingers hit the wrong keys sometimes.

    But I honeslty just plain old screwed up on Kirill's name, good thing he is in Russia. Are you SURE you are actually Russian and not American? I feel like I should ahve a super secret question to ask you that only a Russian would know.

  • 99. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:51 am

    Lesbians get straight men's rocks off, so they get a pass.

  • 100. John  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:52 am

    Yeah, I thought maybe it was just my old work monitor, but the picture on that article kind of creeps me out.

  • 101. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:53 am

    Only SCOTUS can correct this.

    Because the heterosexuals who CREATED all the LGTB citizens are more than happy to continue their abuse.

    Cradle to grave, folks. That's what they are after.

    The legal right to abuse us from cradle to grave.

  • 102. John  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:53 am

    Ah, of course. But they don't need to be married for that. It all makes sense now.

  • 103. Alan E.  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:54 am

    Actually, Ronnie, Prejean didn't have the points to win no matter what. It wasn't because of the comment.

  • 104. John  |  February 23, 2010 at 6:54 am

    In Soviet Russia, letters transpose you?

  • 105. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 7:01 am

    No…she was in second all the judges said that she was in the lead until she made that statement….I even thought that she was going to win until she opened her mouth and BLECK!!!!……Pretty on the outside….Uggggly on the inside…..<3….Ronnie

  • 106. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 7:11 am

    @Straight Grandmother

    I'm sorry about your bum fingers. And I haven't noticed anywhere any typos from you. I know many people whose fingers are fine, but they make so many typos and mistakes that they are the ones who should be explaining it to others who have to constantly guess what was that all about, not you.

    And I really don't care if somebody writes my nick or name not the way I do, I don't even notice that. Felyx was the one who pointed it out in Urbain's comment, I didn't see it this morning when I've read it. I only commented because it was funny as hell that it is a real word — krill.

    And yes, I'm pretty sure I'm Rossiyanin (it's a more appropriate term because "Russian" is nationality, it doesn't reflect citizens of other nationalities), but I'm also Russian (by nationality), and maybe a little Jewish.

    Let's make a deal: if Dieter proposes to me and I say "yes," and then we get married and I go to live with him in Sacramento (sorry, Dieter, I just outed your residence city!), then I'll become American, and you won't have to doubt me anymore! :)

    As for a secret question: BRING IT ON, granny!

  • 107. waxr  |  February 23, 2010 at 7:15 am

    The School Board's vote makes Wheatland High School a Free Hate zone.

  • 108. Alan E.  |  February 23, 2010 at 7:19 am

    Well I guess I am going off what Trump had said. He might have been trying to save some face, too.

  • 109. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 7:31 am

    What's even funnier, according to the Bible, eating shellfish (shrimp, krill, etc.) is an abomination. And being gay is an abomination.

    So, dear Hateros, eating the abomination is an abomination, if you eat me (krill) who is gay. :) And if you eat me in clothes with different fabric, this is the triple abomination (super-abomination).

    And to those Hateros comments like "EAT ME!" and "BITE ME!" from me would be like and eternal damnation.

  • 110. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 7:33 am

    Trump is a pretty good business man…I think maybe he was very PC in his decision on what to do with that un-American Barbie….Like Cheeks says…Miss America is suppose to represent all Americans….not just a chosen few….<3..Ronnie

  • 111. J. Stone  |  February 23, 2010 at 7:35 am

    I love that poem. I once had a boss who had it memorized and would recite it for me.
    This same boss also told a joke I've always liked:
    These 3 guys go fishing, and one–old Mr. LaBrunerie–falls into the lake and drowns. The other 2 try to figure out how they're going to tell the man's wife of his demise, when 1 hits upon an idea. They go to the dead man's house and knock on the door, and when the dead man's wife answers, the 1 asks, "Are you the Widow LaBrunerie?" "No," she says, to which the man says, "The hell you're not!"

  • 112. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 7:39 am

    Ronnie you WOULD! OMG you are suuuuch a little trouble maker LOL. This would be so funny. But you might get arrested.

  • 113. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 7:41 am

    Fiona
    Rest and relax. Tomorrow is another day. Just come back in time for the closing arguments!
    Love
    Straight Grandmother

  • 114. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2010 at 7:53 am

    It's all for the better good of the people, Straight Grandmother……to take down the Man…If they arrest me for peacefully attending a public event…then I shout, Violation of freedom of speech, freedom assembly, freedom of religion….and i paid for my ticket to be at this event…shite…..as I get put into that back of that squad car…"No Justice!….No Peace! You are Raping Liberty!"….<3….Ronnie

  • 115. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 7:54 am

    If you read the previous link that had an article on Maggie she is quoated as saying her family is a mixed bag of athiests, buddists and her husband and his whoel family is Hindu. So I decided to look up what the Hindu relgion preaches about homosexuality.
    This is what I found

    Not that much, really. None of the sacred Hindu texts, such as the Vedas or the Upanishads, contain a straightforward condemnation of homosexuality akin to that found in Leviticus 18:22. The frankest reference comes in the Laws of Manu (in Sanskrit, the Manusmrti), one of the dharmasastra texts that lists religious laws. There is a lone verse that reads: "A twice-born man who commits an unnatural offence with a male, or has intercourse with a female in a cart drawn by oxen, in water, or in the day-time, shall bathe, dressed in his clothes." (A "twice-born" man is one of a higher caste.) The importance of the Laws of Manu, however, is hotly debated by Hindu theologians; lower-caste Hindus, in particular, question whether the text was written by Brahmins in order to reinforce the social status quo.

    More liberal Hindus counter that the religion wasn't always so intolerant. Scholars who subscribe to this theory point to an incident in the Mahabharata in which the god Krishna dons women's clothing. In addition, the Vedas frequently mention people who belong to a "third sex," which some readers have interpreted as a not-so-veiled reference to gays and lesbians in ancient society. And the erotic Kama Sutra—not a sacred text but an instruction manual written sometime between the first and sixth centuries A.D.—further supports the contention that homosexuality was somewhat acceptable at one point; the book contains a lengthy section on homosexual fellatio.

    Even that there appears to be no big religious basis for their discrimiation still most Hindu's are hommophobes.

  • 116. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 8:01 am

    RE Post #83
    Where it shows the pics of the friends on the lower lefthand side. Guess what? The very first pic is MY daughter and the second one is our family friend.

  • 117. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 8:03 am

    @Straight Grandmother
    Rochele is your daughter?

  • 118. Ozymandias ('ca  |  February 23, 2010 at 8:03 am

    waxr, that poem is a personal fave of mine! Thanks for posting it here!

    Love,

    Ozy

  • 119. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 8:09 am

    @Straight Grandmother

    A twice-born man who commits an unnatural offense with a male, or has intercourse with a female in a cart drawn by oxen, in water, or in the day-time, shall bathe, dressed in his clothes.

    Well, that's nothing like “shall be put to death” from our beloved Bible; just wash your sins away… Again, sex in a card, in water, on the day-time? That's like shrimp and clothes with mixed fabric all over again — who cares? Nobody. But gays — yep, that we care about. Double standards — that's all it is.

    –Kirill

  • 120. dieter  |  February 23, 2010 at 8:16 am

    In the news:

    Miss California hopeful, currently Miss Beverly Hills says God thinks all gay people should be put to death!!:

    NEW YORK (CBS) As the California courts decide the legality of gay marriage, Miss Beverly Hills Lauren Ashley has thrown her tiara into the ring and believes that God thinks gay men should be "put to death."

    "The Bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman," Ashley told FOX News. "In Leviticus it says, 'If man lies with mankind as he would lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death and their blood shall be upon them.' The Bible is pretty black and white."

    Ashley's comments surface just months after former Miss California Carrie Prejean settled dueling lawsuits with state beauty pageant organizers amid her high-profile stand against gay marriage.

    And like Prejean, Ashely stands by her words.

    "I feel like God himself created mankind and he loves everyone, and he has the best for everyone," Ashley said to FOX News. "If he says that having sex with someone of your same gender is going to bring death upon you, that's a pretty stern warning, and he knows more than we do about life."

    Ashley will be representing Beverly Hills in the Miss California pageant in November.

  • 121. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 8:29 am

    A group bought a bunch of billboards stating just that – "I am a gay American, and I fight for your freedom."

    With photos of uniformed soldiers.

    They were so badly defaced, they could not afford to keep replacing them.

    America the beautiful?

  • 122. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 8:35 am

    She's simply another ruined human being.

    Ruined.

  • 123. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 8:41 am

    Alan E. I followed you link and looked at the sign.

    EVERYONE here got look at this sign Alan E. posted.

    There is nothing wrong with this sign!

    Bigotry is everywhere, it's rampant, it's driving me crazy. I never knew these things until I came on this website and started participating. Judge Walker better better decide in favor of the plaintiffs, he jsut better. The longer I am here the more I understand Ronnie…

  • 124. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 23, 2010 at 8:48 am

    Meanwhile, Secretary Gates says it's time to let women serve on submarines.

  • 125. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 23, 2010 at 8:49 am

    And this gives me an excuse to post this cool live version, with a fascinating intro, of Thomas Dolby's "One of Our Submarines is Missing."

    [youtube =http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys7EpQ9tFi4&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0]

  • 126. John  |  February 23, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Exactly. They're complaining about something that isn't even on the sign. Unless a person already knew it was co-sponsored, or went and looked it up for whatever reason, they would never know. Also, it's a stupid reason regardless.

  • 127. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 8:58 am

    Of course this is the state my daughter lives in, sigh….

  • 128. Bill  |  February 23, 2010 at 9:12 am

    But, but, but…

    sniffle, sniffle, sniffle…

    But then heterosexual men will have to (gulp) control their (sniffle, sniffle) sexual impulses.

  • 129. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 9:22 am

    No they must have changed he picture. Oh wait, I htink because I am a fan or friend or whatever of that facebook group it probably shows pics of people I know who are also members/freinds. Geeshh I feel lke a real nerd…

  • 130. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 9:25 am

    @John Right! Nothing promoting gays is even on the sign. You would have to do independent research to find out that the gays are just one of many sponsors. No wonder the Prinipal liked the sign and couldn't believe she had to take it down.

  • 131. John  |  February 23, 2010 at 9:27 am

    But see, we're applying logic to the situation. They don't like it when people do that.

  • 132. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 9:51 am

    I just really want to tell a cute story about my grandchildren. This is way off topic so just ignore it if you want to stay on topic. The only remote way this is in topic is because they have 2 moms. I am very careful not to be to specific as my daughter can be fired for being gay. But anyway here is the story. The twins, a boy and a girl will be 2 at the end of May. We Skype video every Sunday and the kids jsut love seeing us ont he computer and playing with us, we play peek a boo and all sorts of fun things together on Skype Video.

    Sunday I noticed my grandaughter had a little pink bow in her hair so I asked about it. Well there is another little girl in daycare who wears bows and ribbons and barrets in her hair and my little grandaughter got into trouble for ripping out the bow from the hair of the other little girl. My daughter and her spouce figured out that our grandaughter wanted some hair decorations so they bought her some and now every morning she picks out whihc one she wants to wear. She is very fussy as in , "Do you wnat this one? No, how about this one?" until finally she picks out the one she wants to wear. The kids are not very verbal yet so there is a lot of pointing. It is so cute my little grandaughter is a real girly girl and I just love that.

    My grandson got some play tools, for Christmas and he does like to play with them. Last week a window repairman was over and he wore a tool belt. Well our little grandson watched him work and then went and got his tools and "helped" the repairman.

    Our daughter says that obviously they are not raising the children real gender specific, "No you can't do that, that is for girls" type of thing. But without even trying to shape them into any gender specific roles our grandaughter is a real diva and our grandson is a rough and tumble boy.

    We send them almost all their clothes from France and trust me we buy them very very nice clothes. I sent a really cute fake fur vest for our grandaughter and she threw hissy fits when it was time to go to daycare if she wasn't wearing her new pretty vest. At the store people will tell her how pretty she looks and she reaches up and pets her little French vest. She likes her bling. The outfit we sent for Christmas when she came downstairs her cousin said, "She looks like a Princess" and she did. She likes her fake fur, the sweater has a little fake fur collar and the skirt has sequins on them with matching silvr thread in the tights. Our grandson has never expressed any opinion whatsoever about what he gets dressed in every day, he doens't care a whit. He is bigger and stronger than his sister so he will push a chair next to the kitchen countertops for her (so they can get up on the countertops when they shouldn't be doing that) and then go get another chair for himself since she isn't strong enough to move the chairs.

    It is so nice to be a grandmother. Okay so I won't post any more off topic posts. This shows lesbians can raise happy well adjduted children. I get sad sometimes knowing that in the eyes of the law I am legally not their grandmother, but I shut that away and don't think about it. That is why I am on this message board and in this fight, it is for my grandchildren whom I love very very very much (wipes away tears).

  • 133. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 9:51 am

    @Straight Grandmother
    Yeah, I got that later, too… I don't hang on Facebook much, only enter into groups to support the numbers. And I already came out as a nerd :)))

  • 134. John  |  February 23, 2010 at 9:53 am

    I think those pictures are semi-random, but show your friends more often than others.

  • 135. John  |  February 23, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Just one of many reasons to fight for equality. They're your family, and the law needs to recognize that.

  • 136. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 23, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Not to worry, I think we all enjoy hearing stories like this. :)

  • 137. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 10:15 am

    @Straight Grandmother

    I wish more people were like you.

    I know a very good gay family (two dads, Jay and Bryan, who adopted two Mexican-heritage siblings), they live in California (many people know them, I'll allow myself to give a link to them — depfox family on YouTube). So, Bryan's mother, unfortunately, does not talk to him and never visits, she never saw her dopty-grandkids, she's against homosexuality and hasn't accepted Bryan for who he is, though he's in his late 30s now. But this family literally changed my life: they've shown me that a family I've always dreamed about can be real, they rekindled my long extinguished dreams of having my own family with my own kids I could be a dad for. I don't know if it will ever happen, but I would really much want this to happen!

    It's great to see that you are fine with your kids whoever they are; the important thing is that they are good people who have their happy families.

    I know my mother will never be like you, will never accept me and will never want to know if I'm married or have kids, will never want to meet them or even see them in the pictures.

    I envy your gay kids and happy for all of you! Thank you for your support! Spread the word among people of your circle, they tend to listen not to “those gays who want their rights for themselves,” but to “those straights” who found a place in their hearts to love the good human qualities of people, not their traditionality.

    –Kirill

  • 138. Polydactyl  |  February 23, 2010 at 10:26 am

    My mother calls my partner her "daugter-in-love" instead of "daughter-in-law." Maybe some variation of that would help when you are sad?

    ♥♥♥

  • 139. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Kirill, Oh my gosh that was such a good link. I was touched when they were in bad and the dad asks what song does the little girl wnat to sing and she picks rock a bye baby. The dad started singing it and then the girl joined him and knew all the words shich in my mind showed me that he had sung thta song to her so many times that she had learned the song. That is what parents do, straight or gay. They ARE a family. I especially liked her dresses they are dressing her really well, for men they have good taste in little girls clothes. That little blue dress she was in was really pretty.

    Kirill, yes you CAN have a family, but make very very very sure you fall in love with the right person. A person who has the same morals as you and is a good person. Bad people make for bad parents, but I know you know that.

    In fact you SHOULD have a family. As far as your mother is concerned I'll jsut share with you what my son told me when he came out to me, he said, "Mom it is all about changing the world one person at a time" I hope and pray you can change your mother, finding the right guy and her seeing how happy and well you are doing with him will go a long way in hopefully having her love and accept you completely as she should.

  • 140. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 10:56 am

    I was so excited about this trial I sent my children links to this website. With working full time and twins under 2 I am sure she doens't have time to visit here but in response to the e-mail I sent her with the information to Prop8TT she sent me this nice e-mail back. I changed the names so she doens't get fired. I am obsessed with the possibility of her get outed and fired. It is so sad when she writes about her friends Derick and Bret whom we have met. Just think about it, Derick is a physician and very good looking but he is "Not good enough" for Bret's family to even meet. Not good enough because he is gay.
    ———————
    Hey mom,
    I haven't gone to the links you sent but I will. Julie and I are members of the Human Rights Campeign and donate to the organization annually. We also donate to Equality Virginia (which is not tax deductible). Anyway, we obviously hope the law goes through. You can rest assured there will be a BIG party the day the kids birth certificates have both our names on them. Your e mail was very sweet. Thank you for caring so much about LGBT issues and for loving Eric and Sara with all of your hearts. They love you too… we talk about you all the time to the kids and they LOVE sunday Skype sessions. It means a lot that you are so supportive of our family. Most people take that support for granted… I don't because I've met so many gay people who don't have the support we do. For example, Derick has NEVER met Bret's parents… EVER they've been together FOREVER they own a house together and Bret's parents have NEVER met Derick. Bret is "out" but it's very "don't ask don't tell"… his family is VERY religious and go the route of "denial". It's very sad. Your e mail really means a lot to me. Thank you so much!!! I love you and dad so much and have REALLY enjoyed our last several visits with you both. Thanks for all of your love and support. Eric and Sara are sooooo lucky to have such fantastic grandparents!!!
    —————————————-
    Reading this e-mail from my daughter doesn't it jsut really make you feel sad the predjadist (I know I spelled that one wrong) there is, all in the name of religion. That parents would never meet their own son's life partner, it amazes me. This is why it is so important this stuggle, this court case. When governmet approves of discrimination it gives approval to society to do likewise.

  • 141. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 11:13 am

    @Straight Grandmother
    Yeah, Selena is great, isn't she? She's so natural, and she's only 5 (her birthday was a month ago)! I love when kids are like that: open, cheerful, engaged… but maybe they all are like that at 5? Don't remember myself or my sister at that age, and she is not married yet, so I don't have an "uncle" experience.

    If I ever have a family, it's not gonna be in Russia (ya still don't believe me? :)), even if I would be OK with becoming this first in the neighborhood weird gay guy living with another gay guy and their kids, it won't be just me and him, it will be the kids who will be bullied about having gay dads. Russian laws do not explicitly prohibit gays to adopt, but only as a singleton adoption, or as a married couple… no same-sex marriage — no coupled adoption. And, I'm pretty sure, there would be numerous attempts to take away our kids from "them gays" back to Children's Homes — "better off gays!"

    I really don't know if my mother will never change her mind — maybe she will… she acts as if she believes in God and the Bible, but it's all just for her own complacency. Russia was deprived of religious pressure for over 70 years, it helps because people are mostly not so much into God and His teachings, they don't believe blindly like frantic zealots, so there is a little hope. Only my coming out will probably push her overboard towards the Church, and they will tell her all about it, I'm pretty sure — I've heard their speeches, they are incredibly deceitful and hateful, leaving no room for doubt and calling gays nothing but child molesters, drug abusers, mentally ill and perverted in any way you can't even imagine. That would be hard to fight. But I'm running ahead of a train, as Russian saying goes…

    –Kirill

  • 142. Straight Grandmother  |  February 23, 2010 at 11:33 am

    I know this is really really really really awful of me but when I read the news story about the pediatrician in Rhode Island I think it is, who is being charged with 103 counts of sexual assault against children I was relieved to read that his assaults were all against girls and only once against a boy. Can you imagine if it were the other way around? Just imagine it. My heart goes out to all of these children and their families, sincerely it does, I wish it would have never happened but for my gay son I have to say I felt relief that the perp is a hetrosexual child molester.

  • 143. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 23, 2010 at 11:48 am

    And cc, if you have a webcam on your computer and/or a DVD cam, your letter/journal that you give your girlfriend upon her safe return home can include actual living record of your love for her. In addition to what you write down, andytime you fel like your mind is going faster than your hands can keep up with, pop in a DVD, turn on te Webcam, and crank up the media player to burn a DVD of how you feel and how much you love her. It will give both of you one more way to share those memories and keep the lines of communication open when she returns from deployment. It will hel her to open up about what she was going through without you there by showing her that she was not alone, and will remind her that the strongest of us are thse of us who are able to share ou pain of separation with the ones we love. And please keep us posted on when you two are reunited.♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
    Richard

  • 144. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 23, 2010 at 11:49 am

    @SGm
    I don't have to imagine that. Here in Russia we are being fed with stories like this all the time — stories about gay pedophiles who molest young boys. All the stories about male pedophiles molesting girls are being ignored, but every story about boys are being reported extensively. As I have already mentioned in my early comments, this is a part of my government's program to create a vicious image of gays so that the society would see us as nothing but a trouble that must be dealt with by using firearms and good ropes around our necks.

    Statistically speaking, heterosexual molesters are way above 95%, pretty much all of them are (but some of them do not really care if it is a boy or a girl). And I was almost molested myself when I was 13, so I know how they work, how they talk, what they do… Not gonna go there.

    –K♥r♥ll

  • 145. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 23, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Felyx, is that only for DC reidents, or can anyone get a marriage license in DC beginning on March 2?

  • 146. Zander  |  February 23, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    I think it's great that DADT is on it's way to being history and gays can freely enlist, however, I have this fear in the back of my mind that the gay troops are going to be put into a single unit (of nothing but homosexuals) and sent out into suicide missions. Kind of what happened to the Black troops that joined when they were first allowed to enter the military.

    It could just be me being a bit paranoid, though. *shrug*

  • 147. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Geez Krill….Be good like the bible says and maybe go to hell or Eat you through your tight speedos made of lycra and spandex and suffer eternal damnation……WELL I'M SOLD!!! Pick me up 8 AM Moskva time?!!!

  • 148. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    That I don't know….I don't think there is a residency restriction but I only read the bill (which didn't specify exactly) so I cannot be sure. Sorry. Anyone else know?

    Felyx

  • 149. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    My impression is that it is made to be universal so I would imagine there are no inequalities. I know hetero couples can get married from outside the District. <3 Felyx

  • 150. Felyx  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    I don't mind the abuse after I have gone to my grave, it is the abuse from my cradle that scarred me for life…by a married straight couple too!!! :( Felyx

  • 151. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    Yes, love is a verb. It is a verb that is predicated because it does have an object, or at least it does in my case–my husband. And fiona, I think that is called a transitive verb, correct?

  • 152. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Thanks for at least trying. Is there anybody out here who is from that area? WE have some friends in Richmond who would b very interested in finding out also.

  • 153. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 23, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    We will be praying for your timely recovery.

  • 154. Sheryl  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Was thinking as I read this that all gay couples and their kids should be there to celebrate.

    So, Ronnie, I think it is a great idea

  • 155. Billy  |  February 23, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Dear Lord,

    Please save me from your followers.

    Thanks,
    ~Billy

  • 156. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 24, 2010 at 5:15 am

    This morning on On Point with Tom Ashbrook, the first hour was a discussion on gays in the military. The pro-DADT speaker's argument boiled down to "unit cohesion," plus some comments on society's view of masculinity (!), and the callers ranged from veterans who had no problem with lifting the ban to a guy who asked if gay men would shower with women, and what would happen when "90 percent" of the troops would quit, or something. *sigh* We have a ways to go.

  • 157. Ronnie  |  February 24, 2010 at 5:31 am

    I don't fully trust polls….but what the F%&K is this guy getting 90% from?….so did post a poll that syas the opposite of what this joe smoe is babbling on about….he is probably a fat ass enabler who has to much time on his hand if he can even remove it from his crotch and switch what hes watching or listening too….on second thought he probably has picture and picture….and again these f-ing ignorant airheads leave out Lesbians….you can't quit the armed forces jacknut….I mean you can but good luck trying to get out easily and getting a job afterward….that guy is FOOL!!!!!!!…….and they keep ignoring that there ARE already Gay and lesbian and so on in the armed forces….that is why we are in this situation right now….nothing will change the view of the masculinity of the armed forces…if that was the case then then that would have happened and would still be the case with women in the armed forces….The oly thing that will change is that the image of Gay men as masculine would be a visible one…and thats what they have their camouflage color briefs in a twist….but again they leave out that their are lesbians already serving and most women who serve are tomboyish….but they are not up in arms about that shite….its the gay end of homophobia plain and simple….. <3…Ronnie

  • 158. Ronnie  |  February 24, 2010 at 5:52 am

    So I just found this site and I will touch on a few things:
    http://www.usma.edu/committees/honor/info/main.ht

    MACC-S- HON
    8 May 1998

    SUBJECT: Information Paper on "Honor" – A Bedrock of Military Leadership

    2. The Cadet Honor Code.

    a. The Cadet Honor Code is defined as "A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do." The Honor Code expresses four succinct prohibitions. On a behavioral level, the Code represents a simple standard for all cadets. On a developmental plane, West Point expects that all cadets will strive to live far above the minimum standard of behavior and develop a commitment to ethical principles guiding moral actions.

    ("a cadet will not lie" – – but that is what DADT is forcing LGBTQQI Americans to do by omitting and denying who they are….when another member asks are you dating anybody, who is that in the picture, who was that on the phone, who is the letter from, what did you do when you were on leave…..enough said)

    b. West Point's core mission is develop leaders of character for our Army. A leader of character knows what is right, and possesses the moral courage to act on that knowledge. The principles of truthfulness, fairness, respect for others, and a personal commitment to maintaining values constitute that fundamental ideal known as the Spirit of the Code. A leader of character will apply the Spirit of the Code when making decisions involving ethical dilemmas.

    (The principles of truthfulness, fairness, respect for others, and a personal commitment to maintaining values constitute that fundamental ideal known as the Spirit of the Code." – – so calling somebody the F-word and forcing people to hide in the closet (and not just the soldier but anybody who is that soldiers life outside of the armed forces) is respect?)

    Just a little understanding I clearly notice but for some reason Hateros don't see or hear that "YOU ARE FORCING THEM TO BREAK THE HONOR CODE…and not just the LGBTQQI soldiers but the heterosexual ones as well…..Dare I say it…PWND…….<3…Ronnie

  • 159. Ronnie  |  February 24, 2010 at 6:11 am

    Here is another, The USA Military Code of Conduct (CoC): http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislat

    Article I – – I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

    (Excuse me…Which Americans?….all americans)

    Article II – – I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

    (Excuse me….. I will not surrender who?….all members of my command)

    Article III – – If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and to aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

    (I will make every effort to do what?….that's right…aid others to escape…those closeted LGBTQQI service members promise to do that and they have you just don't know they have…because why?….correct DADT…gold star for you)

    Article IV – – If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

    (what are the two thing you will do in that article?….I will not take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades….and….I will obey and back them up in EVERY way….ahh..you see you are starting to break that code….tisk tisk)

    Article V – – (just talks about what you do and say when you are a POW)

    Article VI – – I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

    (Oh golly…where do I start?…I will never forget I am a what type of American?….all types of Americans……fighting for what?….you got it……all freedoms…..responsible for what?….you're actions not others…..I will trust in who?….yup "My" God…..not the one and only God)

    what else is their to say other then PWND!!!!…….<3…Ronie

  • 160. Mandy  |  February 24, 2010 at 7:04 am

    Personally I wake up every day hoping that today is the day that DADT will be repealed. I know that it may take some time to repeal DADT but I still hope that today is the day that it is repealed.

    For me the repeal of DADT is not just about our servicemen but also about their families. I am part of an online mom's board and every day I read the stories about what service families go through. My heart breaks that the families of service men and women do not get the recognition that they deserve. Heterosexual couples get so much more. Hell even the acknowledgement that they are a couple is more then any gay service men or women (I apologize if I am not using the correct terminology) receive.

    I have always been a gay marriage supporter. But once I became a mom it stepped it up for a whole new level for me. I have two amazing daughters and it breaks my heart that unless things change, they cannot marry whomever they love.

    My children are my world and I want to give them a world where they can love and marry whomever they wish. I want my children to grow up in a world where everyone is equal and if they want to marry someone of the same gender then they can. i want to live in a world where the families of gay men and women are acknowledged and treated with the rights afforded to families of heterosexual couples. I want my children live in a world where service men and women do not have to hide who they are. That all service men and women and their families are recognized for their valuable contributions to our society. That their sacrifices do mean a damn and we support all of them them.

    Just like every other aspect of being a parent, I will have to keep fighting to give my children the world that they deserve.

  • 161. K!r!lleXXI  |  February 24, 2010 at 10:29 am

    “In Britain and Canada, roughly two thirds of military respondents in polls said they would refuse to serve with open gays, but when inclusive policies were implemented, no more than three people in each country actually resigned.”
    Gays in Foreign Militaries 2010 (PDF), page 3, clause 2

    LIARS! They don't care about gays, but they lie in polls!
    And the same happens in the US!
    Only idiots and bigots will resign! The rest of them are liars!

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