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Beverly Hills Says No to “Miss Beverly Hills”


by Brian Leubitz

A couple of days ago, I mentioned “Miss Beverly Hills,” Lauren Ashley. Ms. Ashley is something of a Carrie Prejean wannabe. By talking trash about what she heard told about what the Bible says (but doesn’t actually say), she gets some press time.

And that’s really what this is all about. She saw that Carrie Prejean was able to parlay her ignorance into fifteen minutes of fame, so why not double down? And if you can say you are from Los Angeles, or better yet from Beverly Hills? Well, that should just make the press oogle over you more. And, to an extent, she was right.

Except, well, she’s not from Beverly Hills; she lives in Pasadena. She just kind of took that moniker because it was available and sounds oh so fancy. However, there isn’t actually a beauty pageant for Beverly Hills, and the participants in the pageant get to choose their own locations. And the city of Beverly Hills would rather she not be associated with their simple town.

In a statement Wednesday, the city said it was “shocked” by Ashley’s description of herself as “Miss Beverly Hills.” The city “does not sponsor a beauty pageant and has no association with Miss California USA,” the statement said. “As such, there should be no individual claiming the title of Miss Beverly Hills.”
*** *** ***
To Beverly Hills Mayor Nancy Krasne, those were fighting words. “We are dismayed by any potential association with the city of Beverly Hills, which has a long history of tolerance and respect,” Krasne said. (LA Times)

It’s easy to make a name for yourself these days, just say something outrageous and/or controversial. You can turn yourself from an obscure beauty pageant contestant into a right wing cause celebre in no time. But for this story, even the media sees right through the story. But, when it comes down to it, the world will move on to some other Paris Hilton or Lindsay Lohan wannabe in no time, and Ms. Ashley will be left carrying the bitter mark of intolerance that is left by her misguided Biblical interpretation.


  • 1. Linda  |  February 25, 2010 at 12:32 am



  • 2. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 12:48 am

    As a resident of Beverly Hills, I was quite angry about this. I contacted the city on Tuesday, when this story fist broke, and I forwarded them some web links to her statements.

    The next day, the city made a public statement denouncing this 'woman.' So I am guessing many residents complained.

    It especially makes me angry because Beverly Hills is not the kind of place where this kind of thing happens. It is a beautiful, accepting city with citizens from all walks of life.

  • 3. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 12:59 am

    HA HA……pwnd…..Miss Beverly Hills….my lesbian Aunt Carol……If she really wanted to make a head line she should have called herself "Miss West Beverly Hills"….oh there is so much I can do with that…hehehehe…..<3…Ronnie

  • 4. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:07 am

    Maggie Gallagher comes to Lauren Ashley's defense:

  • 5. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:20 am

    "I'm not surprised that Miss Beverly Hills, Lauren Ashley, opposes gay marriage — after all 45 percent of young Californians voted for Prop 8, as did 7 million Californians generally," the organization's president, Maggie Gallagher, told us. "But I have to say, I am impressed with her courage in coming forward and for speaking up for Carrie. The elected officials of city of Beverly Hills are not demonstrating tolerance or kindness by continuing the avalanche of hatred against supporters of Prop 8."

    Oh for crying out loud….where do I start….

    1.)"after all 45 percent of young Californians voted for Prop 8" – – That's a lie

    2.)"7 million Californians generally" – – Is it just me or does that number get bigger every time she mentions it?

    3.)"The elected officials of city of Beverly Hills are not demonstrating tolerance or kindness by continuing the avalanche of hatred against supporters of Prop 8." – – But its ok that you can do it to those who do not support Prop 8…..all of the homophobic anti-gay lies and derogatory insults and threats and gay bashing and murdering that you do and condone….thats all ok?…..What the F$^&%*& you F$^%$&^%*% ignorant piece of SHITE…you need to be S^&$*% in the face…you F$&$* Swatzy Triple K Ugly B!t<h…..<3….Ronnie

  • 6. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:28 am

    Thank you Bill for taking immediate action!

  • 7. Jay  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:28 am

    I love how the article ends by saying that 'she's doing fine in spite of the backlash'.

    Of COURSE she's doing fine. Utter psychos like her aren't going to lose any sleep over people getting annoyed when she's DOING IT FOR THE PUBLICITY LITTLE BABY JESUS.

    There are few things in this world more dangerous than self-righteous religion.

  • 8. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:34 am

    A new interesting study from gay haters linked below.

    It seems rather odd to me that it NEVER seems to occur to heterosexuals that gay people might be killing themselves BECAUSE OF THEM.

    Instead, they choose to believe that LGTB citizens are just 'mental cases' with a greater risk of suicide. Heterosexuals and their abuse, degradation and humiliation of us has nothing to do with it, right???????

  • 9. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:37 am

    It is my responsibility.

    It is ALL of our responsibility.

  • 10. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:47 am

    "Avalanche Of Hatred"

    That could TOTALLY be the flavor of Ben N' Jerry's that is named after Maggie Gallagher!!!!

    It could be blood flavored ice cream with a diarrhea swirl.

  • 11. Alan E.  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:50 am

    "I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do."

    -D. Dale Gulledge

  • 12. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:50 am

    Another thing it mentions in the article is all the bad press shes getting:

    "However the media storm that ensued interpreted her words with headlines such as "Miss Beverly Hills Wants Gays Put to Death" and "God Wants Gays Dead, Says Beauty Queen.""…….."The 23-year-old titleholder declined to comment any further or respond to the city's press release" – – what is it that I always say?……A denial of omission it an admission to the accusation….<3…Ronnie

  • 13. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:54 am

    correction……. An omission of denial is an admission to the accusation….sorry I'm still in the middle of my daily coffee intake…hehehe…..<3…Ronnie

  • 14. Alan E.  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:56 am

    It was just over 7 million people that voted For Prop H8. Take a look at the statistical analysis I did, and it will show that 7 million is only like 30-some percent of the registered voting public in California.

  • 15. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:58 am

    Commentary: Human sexual orientation has deep biological roots

  • 16. Alan E.  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:03 am

    I had to stop myself from reading all of the comments on the Faux News link. Many people there don't understand that she misconstrued the bible to support her own bigoted beliefs. Many of them probably think it says just that, word for word!

  • 17. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:05 am

    I am coining a new term……this is for people who redundantly say "Being Gay is a choice" and ASSuming that they know what is going though our minds and ASSuming that they know how we feel and why we do things the way we do and ASSume that know us better then they know themselves as if they are some kind of F-ing psychic……

    I now dub those Hateros….the "Gay Whisperers"……<3…Ronnie

  • 18. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:11 am

    Saying 'it is a choice' allows haterosexuals to continue to hate.

    For what kind of human being could hate someone simply for being as they were born?

    So when the haters say 'it's a choice' what they are TRULY saying is that they can not deal with their own hatred of someone who isn't like them, so they blame the person on the receiving end of their hate instead of, let's say, dealing with their issues or something…

  • 19. David from Sandy UT  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:14 am

    LOLZ. . . so funny.

    Are members of the anti-marriage-equality faction fear-mongering liars because of their anti-equality beliefs? Or are they against equality because they are addicted to fear-mongering lies?

    Chicken, meet egg. Both of you are manifestations of the same species. And when prepared properly, both of you are delicious.

    I haven't seen a picture of this female. Is she blond? (just kidding)


  • 20. Billy  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:21 am

    You know, a study from University of Georgia showed that 54% of homophobes had a "definite" arousal response when shown gay porn, and 26% had a "moderate" response…

    I fear that our greatest opponent for equal rights may very well be closeted glbt people.

  • 21. bJason  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:25 am

    Hi everyone! I have been lurking lately. I am curious… I remember that something is "going down" with OUR trial tomorrow but I don't remember what. Could someone remind me, please? Will there be court appearances tomorrow? If so, will you guys (P8TT) be tracking?


  • 22. Billy  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:26 am

  • 23. fiona64  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:38 am

    Tomorrow is the deadline for the documents that were ordered to be submitted. After that, Judge Walker will determine a date for closing arguments.


  • 24. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:57 am

    I am familiar with that study.

    But even more important to note in that study was that even when those men were confronted about their reaction to homosexual stimuli, they STILL denied it.

    Even though it was scientifically PROVEN. The homophobes who responded to the homosexual stimuli totally denied they were stimulated.

    Even with heat-sensitive images showing their penises all 'engorged and tingly,' they still denied the attraction.

    I think that says SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much.

  • 25. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:01 am

    Hey Fiona,

    Hope your debacle with the self-loather is winding down!!!


  • 26. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:16 am

    Here is some GREAT footage of Dan Savage responding to Lauren Ashley's belief that gay people should be killed. It was on Olbermann last night:

  • 27. Felyx  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:23 am

    I am not too sure that would go too well next to 'Hubby Hubby' (Chubby Hubby renamed in honor of same sex marriages). I think I would rather 'Avalanche of P8TT'! vanilla mint cupcake ice cream with bajillions of rainbow sprinkles!

    ….Yeah. much much better!

    (Why would you even suggest honoring MG like that…EWWWW ;`P )

  • 28. carlwillis  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:23 am

    I'd say her interpretation of Leviticus is as accurate and justified as any other.

    Once when I was at college, a grizzled old Gideons moralizer was accosting students and passing out bibles on the front steps of the cafeteria. I saw one of my friends get cornered by the superstitious ol' coot, saw him accept a bible. And then, in full view of the witless geezer, this fellow proceeded to tear out a page from the Good Book, roll up a doobie in it, and smoke that sh*t.

    The bible takes on whatever meaning its believers wish it to have. If they happen to be fundamentalists and bigots, the Word of God will reflect those values in their interpretation. And that's just fine. We just need to make sure religion is kept in its place, and we need to make sure it is ridiculed when it oversteps its bounds.

  • 29. Dave T  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:29 am

    Seems kind of odd to me that a beauty pageant contestant can just pick whatever city she wants to represent. Don't the people of that city get to decide?

    I guess it wouldn't be a big deal if said beauty pageant contestant didn't succumb to an attack of verbal diarrhea. But if you're going to claim to represent group X (whatever that group may be), it's kind of important that you have some kind of mandate from the members of group X.

  • 30. Alan E.  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:30 am

    Bible-page doobies are an old trick. The paper is excellent for it.

  • 31. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:31 am

    @ Felyx,

    Please note, I 'honored' her with blood and shit.

    ; )

  • 32. Alan E.  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:37 am

    Keith's bit with Dan Savage.

  • 33. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:38 am

    And somehow, the buzz is always holier…

  • 34. Dave T  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:42 am

    A little OT, but the post above made me remember it…

    I live across the street from a middle school. I get home from work shortly before school lets out. So I was walking around the living room, trying to encourage my infant son to take a nap, when I noticed three middle-aged men setting themselves up on the sidewalk outside the school. Each had a white cardboard box full of something – I couldn't tell what. It was obvious, however, that they were planning to intercept the kids as they left the school grounds. I was curious, but I was busy & didn't think too much about it.

    A little later, I was lying down with my son sleeping on my chest. The window was open and I could hear the normal sounds of cars & kids. Then suddenly, I heard one kid calling out to his friends: "Hey, did you get your bible?" And I realized what those men were handing out at the school.

    As an atheist, I'm torn. On the one hand, I wouldn't mind if my son brought home a free bible. That way we could discuss it & I could explain that it's interesting literature and a window into the minds of bronze age people (although I'd rather teach him about Greek thought from the period). On the other hand, I am extremely offended – who the f#*$ do these people think they are? Why do they think it's OK to push their nonsense on other people?

    I think the most appropriate response is to print a bunch of fliers on atheism & distributing that to the kids.

  • 35. Alan E.  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:46 am

    Do it right next to the guys handing out bibles and challenge the police to arrest you and not them.

  • 36. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:50 am

    You should… is so funny when they say that LGBTQQI people are trying to recruit their kids….but what is that (handing out bibles at a school)?…..What if those kids are Jewish, Hindu, Islamic, Buddhists, ect. ect. ect…….We don't hand anything out that says this is the gospel of Homosexuality….I've never seen anybody doing that…..they are the ones doing the recruiting and trying to force their religion onto anybody and everybody…..F-ing Bigots………<3…Ronnie

  • 37. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 25, 2010 at 4:09 am

    Of course the media saw rght through this story. First off, she isn't really all that pretty, so she didn't even beguile them by her looks. Secondly, she was laughing all the way through it like some teenager with a crush on the Science teacher. So obviouly her motives were as transparent as a new pane of glass.

  • 38. Billy  |  February 25, 2010 at 4:12 am

    You should hand out copies of this to the children instead:

  • 39. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 25, 2010 at 4:13 am

    Bill, these are the sme people who hated AA not too many yars ago for being born other than white.

  • 40. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 25, 2010 at 4:14 am

    Yes, but she isn't even a very pretty blond. More like Britney Spears on a rough day.

  • 41. Ed-M  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:09 am

    Cripes. This woman drags out the two "Kill the Gays" verses out of Leviticus (their true meaning is up for interpretation) and ole Mags comes to her defense. $#!t!!! They really DO want to kill us. And like in Uganda and Kenya they probably think the closet is a luxury they can't afford for us to have….

  • 42. SEA_Andrew  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:14 am

    What's really sad is that they reported it as news.

    That's not news, that is a sad statement.

    I am wondering if we should do the same type of interview, but with a gay guy, have him laugh through it, and say he is a representative of NoM.

    … and post that in the news.

    Spin takes various forms…. :-)


  • 43. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:16 am

    Yes, and it works for regular tobacco, also. I have rolled many a Top cigarette with it, and have repaired many a Marlboro.

  • 44. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:22 am


    Here's a quick Johnny Weir update. I truly feel for this kid. He is being PUBLICLY gay-bashed. And forced to defend himself SIMPLY FOR BEING WHO HE IS. Truly pathetic.

  • 45. waxr  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:23 am

    Daily Bible Passage:
    20:9 “‘If anyone curses his father and mother he must be put to death. He has cursed his father and mother; his blood guilt is on himself. 20:10 If a man commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. 20:11 If a man has sexual intercourse with his father’s wife, he has exposed his father’s nakedness. Both of them must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves. 20:12 If a man has sexual intercourse with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. They have committed perversion; their blood guilt is on themselves. 20:13 If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves. 20:14 If a man has sexual intercourse with both a woman and her mother, it is lewdness. Both he and they must be burned to death, so there is no lewdness in your midst. 20:15 If a man has sexual intercourse with any animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal. 20:16 If a woman approaches any animal to have sexual intercourse with it, you must kill the woman, and the animal must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves.

    The text says that the offenders, "must be put to death." I wonder if Miss Lauren Ashley would like to help fullfill God's commandment by putting them to death herself.

    Note that sexual intercourse with an animal (20:15-16) is the only offense which specifically prohibits women from the act.

    Also note that in the case of sexual intercourse with animals, that the animal must also be put to death.

  • 46. Ed-M  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:26 am

    And that the men who wrote it were merely stenographers who were dictated by the very Diety him/her self.

  • 47. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:27 am

    Ed-M. It is worse than that. They know that they no longer have the closets to imprison us in, so death is their last resort.

  • 48. Ed-M  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:27 am

    …dictated to by the very Diety…

    $#!t!!! I still haven't gotten the caffeine kick from my coffee!!!!!

  • 49. Sheryl  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:34 am

    the same kind of human beings who were again equal rights for blacks. Doesn't matter that you can't change how you were born, if you are not like them, then they can believe that you are inferior them.

  • 50. Dave T  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:37 am

    OT, but those of you with computer backgrounds may get a kick out of this: Gay marriage: the database engineering perspective.

    I particularly like this quote:

    It's asinine to [build your database] this way. However, there is a good reason why I haven't just skipped schemata One to Six. There are a lot of people in the world who actually think like this. This is their for-real, no-joking conception of "marriage". They do not grasp that men and women are interchangeable, as a result of which homosexual marriages create repulsive integrity problems in their heads. "But if they're both guys, which one is the wife? Does not compute!" How sad.

    (emphasis mine).

  • 51. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:50 am

    Perhaps when unclean Miss-Not-Beverly-Hills returns from her biblically mandated menstruation hut, she can comment on your biblical passages…

  • 52. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:53 am

    Well then lets dissect that while sticking to the topic (beauty queens and celebrities)

    20:9….The Jacksons nearly disowned their father for the way he treated them.

    20:10…… Tiger Woods, Jon Edwards, Jude Law all adulterers.

    20:11….. I don't know of any male celebs who slept with his fathers wife but Mckenzie Phillips was molested by her mothers husband.

    20:12…My aunt slept with her nieces boyfriend years ago

    20:13…..but how does that include all Gay men….specifically Gay teens who haven't had sex…such as Justin from "Ugly Betty"(the actor is not gay but is perfectly fine playing one)

    20:14….That sounds like a penthouse letter….I'm just saying.

    20:15……Humans are a mammal and a mammal is an animal…..enough said.

    20:16….. My male long-haired chihuahua humped my 5yo female cousin…..and in the Movie "Head Over Heals", actress Monica Potter gets humped by a great dane….should they all by put to death?..

    what's that Hateros?……P….. P….. P….. P……PWND!!!!……..<3…Ronnie

  • 53. Dave T  |  February 25, 2010 at 6:02 am

    20:15 If a man has sexual intercourse with any animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal. 20:16 If a woman approaches any animal to have sexual intercourse with it, you must kill the woman, and the animal must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves.

    Let me see if I have this right:

    If a man "has relations" with an animal, they both must be put to death.

    If a woman approaches any animal to "have relations" with it, they both must be put to death.

    So it's OK if a guy walks by a sheep and thinks to himself "I'd hit that" as long as he doesn't actually "hit that." The woman is condemned as soon as she thinks it?

  • 54. J. Stone  |  February 25, 2010 at 6:04 am

    I completely agree, Bill. And it's not just suicide. Elevated incidence of drug use, alcoholism, and risky sexual behavior all flow from social stigmatization of gay people. Think about it: if you're a gay kid surrounded by people who are hostile toward gay people, you are going to experience an awful lot of stress and strain as a result. It is no stretch to imagine that such a kid will be more likely to turn to drugs or drinking as a coping mechanism. It spirals downhill from there.

    Of course, people who want to believe that gay people are broken inside, or just plain bad, deny the link. Yet whenever their kids misbehave, they'll be the first ones to raise the issue of peer pressure and social influence.

    I'm not saying that people aren't ultimately responsible for their own actions–just that society as it currently is organized is a hindrance, rather than a help, when it comes to gay people making positive choices.

  • 55. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 6:14 am

    I want to elaborate on the actor that plays Justin on Ugly Betty, Mark Indelicato…he has never actually said yes he is gay or no he is not…..that's his business….but he plays a gay character and is his only mainstream role so people ASSume he is….anywho…take the character for instance the writers have said that Justin is gay but hasn't accepted it…but if we don't have sex with a man at the age of 13-to say18…but we know we are gay and leviticus says you have to sleep with a man….but the Hateros don't say those who only have sex…they say all…and Levi doesn't apply to Lesbians, Transexuals, and Intersex… Levi is moot….much like the jeans….lol…..<3…Ronnie

  • 56. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 6:29 am

    I just posted this video on the "Same ol" thread so it stays on topic….<3…Ronnie

  • 57. fiona64  |  February 25, 2010 at 6:44 am

    Hi, Bill. I am holding up. Yesterday was exhausting, as my long-dormant IBS (yes, I know … TMI) kicked back up. I haven't had a flare in more than 3 years, and as I have not eaten any of the Triggering Foods (TM), I am confident that it was entirely stress-related.

    One of my dear friends wrote a very kind review of my memoir — and, in the process of doing so, "outed" the self-loather's reasons for his vitriol. Within *hours* he had deleted his review from my publisher's site and from Facebook's Visual Bookshelf. The review describing my novel as "slash fiction" was removed by Visual Bookshelf due to its inaccuracy.

    I should have screencapped the publisher's site (I screen-capped the VB one) but I was so upset that it didn't occur to me.

    At this point, everything has calmed down. I'm exhausted after yesterday (I had to call off from work because I couldn't be far from the Zoo Loo, LOL).

    Another friend, who is a life coach, wrote a beautiful blog post yesterday about how your friends are not necessarily your allies — allies support your endeavors and growth, where friends might prefer that you stagnate and never change. It was very timely, I tell you what!

    I will admit, there is a part of me that just wants to cry over the whole damned thing. I did *nothing* to deserve the treatment I received. OTOH, I don't want him back in my life; his behavior has cemented my original decision that there would *not* be another readmission.

    It doesn't take all of the hurt away, but it does ease some of it.


  • 58. fiona64  |  February 25, 2010 at 6:49 am

    Dave T quoted an article: “But if they’re both guys, which one is the wife?

    See, this gets back to my regularly cited point: homophobia has its roots in misogyny. Misogynists (and homophobes) have very rigid ideas about gender roles. They cannot conceive of the idea that there is no "wife" in a male same-sex relationship, any more than there is a "dude" in a lesbian relationship. Things have to fit in their tiny little boxes, or these guys' heads explode.


  • 59. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 25, 2010 at 7:06 am

    Yes, you are so right about that fiona. And the main reason that this causes their heads to explode is because most of them only have two brain cells and the divorce was final years ago, so the brain cells are not talking to each other.♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
    Glad you are feeling better. Also glad that your harassment has ended. You did not deserve that at all.

  • 60. Urbain  |  February 25, 2010 at 7:18 am

    Hey folks,

    A bit off topic here, but Right Wing Watch has a pretty good piece about how the Religious Right (same folks that hate us here in the U.S.) are spreading their intolerance internationally:


  • 61. Dave T  |  February 25, 2010 at 7:39 am

    A while ago I was thinking about my own involvement in this struggle & wrote down my own story. I haven't posted it here before now, but fiona64's comment about misogyny is related to my story. I hope that, in some small way, my story can help illustrate fiona's point, so here goes:

    I've been reluctant to share my store here because, as a straight white man, I've looked upon these forums as a place for those more directly involved in the fight for equality to share their stories. But ever since finding this site I've been asking myself why I feel so strongly about this fight. Unlike those on the other side, I don't believe that gay marriage will change my own marriage for better or for worse. I guess in some abstract way I hope for marriage equality for my own son, but he's only seven months old so I don't know whether he'll be gay or straight (but you can be damn sure his mother & I will not teach him to hate!).

    My first exposure to LGBT people probably came fairly early. My father was a high school teacher and worked with (and was friendly with) two colleagues (Mr. Phillips & Mr. Argyll) who were, according to my mother, "roommates". No issue was ever made of this and it never really occurred to me that they were gay until after I graduated & left home. I had Mr. Phillips for 3 years of French class & he was a great teacher. I grew up in a small town in Canada; I wonder if they ever got married (Mr. Phillips passed away a couple of years ago). But I don't feel that my contact with Mr. Phillips really made me feel strongly about equality for LGBT people – it was such a non-issue (the way it should be!) that it didn't really make much of an impression on me.

    After university I lived with a bisexual woman for a few years. Again, it wasn't an issue – we were monogamous – it was just who she was. After we broke up, she dated a woman for a while & is now married with a son (she lives in Canada, so I should clarify that she's married to a man – how nice it would be to have to clarify that here in the US!). But again, this had little or no impact on me, so I don't feel it really motivated me. What did make an impression upon me was her feminism. Equality for women always struck me as obvious and it always seemed strange that women would have to fight for something so simple.

    I lived in Vancouver for about ten years and for part of that time lived and worked in neighbourhoods where LGBT people lived & worked. It was something I saw every day. And I largely ignored it, because it was not important to me. So again, it didn't make much of an impression on me. Vancouver is not some "gay utopia" – there are gay bashings and hate just like everywhere else. But the community is very strong (and made stronger by the availability of marriage, in my opinion) and my experience was always positive, probably because I was not "infected" by the hate that seems to be everywhere else.

    A couple of years ago one of my sisters "came out" to me. I hesitate to use that phrase, because she didn't say "I'm a lesbian" and I don't think she identifies herself that way. It was simply this: she had a relationship with someone, it ended, and her heart was broken. That's the way she expressed it, that's the way I took it, and that's the way I related to her. It wasn't a "coming out", it was a reaching out for love, help, and support.

    Now I'm living in California with my wife and son. I'm incredibly proud of being from a country (Canada) where SSM is a reality. And I'm incredibly disgusted by the other side in this debate.

    There have been all these LGBT-related events and people that in my life that I don't really feel have touched me strongly. LGBT people and issues have always been there in the background of my life, just like other important issues, but it wasn't clear why I feel so strongly about this until I started thinking about it after hanging around this site. Then the other day I made the connection: discrimination against LGBT people harms me the same way discrimination against women harms me. There's a song that I think illustrates this very well (better than I ever could).

    "When I Was A Boy" by Dar Williams

    I won't forget when Peter Pan came to my house, took my hand
    I said I was a boy; I'm glad he didn't check.
    I learned to fly, I learned to fight
    I lived a whole life in one night
    We saved each other's lives out on the pirate's deck.

    And I remember that night
    When I'm leaving a late night with some friends
    And I hear somebody tell me it's not safe,
    someone should help me
    I need to find a nice man to walk me home.

    When I was a boy, I scared the pants off of my mom,
    Climbed what I could climb upon
    And I don't know how I survived,
    I guess I knew the tricks that all boys knew.

    And you can walk me home, but I was a boy, too.

    I was a kid that you would like, just a small boy on her bike
    Riding topless, yeah, I never cared who saw.
    My neighbor come outside to say, "Get your shirt,"
    I said "No way, it's the last time I'm not breaking any law."

    And now I'm in this clothing store, and the signs say less is more
    More that's tight means more to see, more for them, not more for me
    That can't help me climb a tree in ten seconds flat

    When I was a boy, See that picture? That was me
    Grass-stained shirt and dusty knees
    And I know things have gotta change,
    They got pills to sell, they've got implants to put in,
    they've got implants to remove

    But I am not forgetting…that I was a boy too

    And like the woods where I would creep, it's a secret I can keep
    Except when I'm tired, 'cept when I'm being caught off guard
    And I've had a lonesome awful day, the conversation finds its way
    To catching fire-flies out in the backyard.

    And so I tell the man I'm with about the other life I lived
    And I say, "Now you're top gun, I have lost and you have won"
    And he says, "Oh no, no, can't you see

    When I was a girl, my mom and I we always talked
    And I picked flowers everywhere that I walked.
    And I could always cry, now even when I'm alone I seldom do
    And I have lost some kindness
    But I was a girl too.
    And you were just like me, and I was just like you"

    The last part of the song, with it's illustration of what is lost when women and men are forced into stupid roles, makes me tear up whenever I hear the song or read the lyrics.

    I feel strongly about this fight for selfish reasons: I want to be free to be who I am. Straight guys are supposed to be tough, supposed to be strong, supposed to like sports, supposed to treat women & LGBT people like crap. But I'm not and I don't and I don't want to be like that. I want to be free to pick flowers. I want to be free to cry when I need to. I want to be free to feel and show kindness & love to others. And now that I'm a father, I want my son to be free to do all these things – or his own thing, whatever that may be.

    We are harmed when we are forced to conform to roles by others. We cannot be everything that we should be when we can't express ourselves freely.

  • 62. Richard W. Fitch  |  February 25, 2010 at 8:04 am

    Beverly Hills Says No to “Miss Beverly Hills”
    [{ nothing to add right now but want to read future comments }]

  • 63. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 25, 2010 at 8:08 am

    Dave T, I thik all of us here have selfish reasons for wanting full equality for all, yet our selfsih reasons also tie in with resons that are not so selfish. You see, be being selfish enough to want to be free to be yourself, and being selfish enough to want the same thing for your son, that means you are also selless enough to want that for other men and women, regardless of wh they are. This also means you are selfles enough to want the same thing for EVERYONE's sons and daughters that you want for your son. Well, by contributing your feelings and your experiences, you have become part of a big family here. We may not always agree on what is said, we may not always agree with how thngs should be accomplished, but we all know that we can say what is on our hearts. Ye, we are all harmed when we are forced to conform to roles by other people. At the same time, we are healed when we finally begin giving ourselves and those around us the freedom to be who we are, and our wings finally begin to grow. Thank you so much for being part of the P8TT family.♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

  • 64. SEA_Andrew  |  February 25, 2010 at 8:18 am

    What is really sad is that hatespeech is big business now. If you can slander and spew against the gays, then you can get lucrative speaking engagements from the Right.

    What Carrie Prejean has taught these young people is:

    1) Using your religion to speak against the gays is tolerated
    2) It can land you $$ speaking engagements
    3) You can get people talking about you
    4) You can elevate yourself by ripping someone else down
    5) Religion is a useful tool to sheild yourself

    Imagine what would happen if I went on the air and said e-x-a-c-t-l-y what she did and substituted the words "gay" for "christian".

    Do you think there would have been a backlash? Do you think that I would have law suits brought against me?

    She needs to be sued for the choice of language she used. Opening your mouth and using religion as a shield should not be supported no more than opening my mouth and using my orientation should be supported no more than opening your mouth and using race should be supported…. you get the point.

    This type of speech hurts people. It dehumanizes and defames them. I hope Beverly Hills sues her for every penny she is trying to make off this stunt.

  • 65. dieter  |  February 25, 2010 at 8:22 am


    Prop. 8 suit closing arguments may be televised

    Thursday, February 25, 2010
    SAN FRANCISCO — Despite a rebuff from the U.S. Supreme Court, the Bay Area's federal judges are again proposing to allow cameras in their courtrooms, a plan that could lead to telecasting of closing arguments in a suit challenging California's ban on same-sex marriage.

    The U.S. District Court in San Francisco has posted a rule change on its Web site that would allow its judges to take part in a pilot program of airing selected non-jury civil trials. The public comment period began Feb. 4 and ends next Thursday.

    The proposal is the same one Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker adopted in January after a week of overwhelmingly favorable public comment. But the Supreme Court intervened when Walker approved camera coverage of the trial over Proposition 8, the November 2008 initiative that outlawed same-sex marriage.

    In a 5-4 ruling, the court – which has refused to telecast its own proceedings – rebuked Walker for shortening the usual comment period.

    The court said it was not deciding whether federal judges could televise trials. But the conservative majority did not cite any public benefit in trial broadcasts, and said any such project should start with a more humdrum case.

    The justices cited statements by Prop. 8's sponsors that telecasting outside the courthouse would intimidate their witnesses. Sponsors withdrew four of their six scheduled witnesses, all academic experts, when the trial started Jan. 11 and did not reinstate them after the court barred cameras.

    No federal trial in California has ever been shown on television or the Internet. Walker had proposed live, closed-circuit telecasts of the Prop. 8 trial to a few other federal courthouses and a delayed posting on YouTube.

    Testimony in the lawsuit by two same-sex couples and the city of San Francisco ended Jan. 27, but Walker postponed scheduling lawyers' closing arguments until after a final round of briefs, due Friday.

    If his court approves the new rule next week, Walker could allow camera coverage of the arguments along the lines of his previous order, subject to approval by Alex Kozinski, chief judge of the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

    Read more:

  • 66. fiona64  |  February 25, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Dave T., I think there's something in my eye …

    You're right. When we try to fit into boxes that aren't ours, everyone loses. Celebrate who you are. I know that the most miserable times of my life were when I tried to be what someone else wanted me to be.

    Thanks from another straight ally.


  • 67. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 25, 2010 at 8:59 am

    Sponsors withdrew four of their six scheduled witnesses, all academic experts, when the trial started Jan. 11 and did not reinstate them after the court barred cameras.

    Good news, but this sentence is full of fail. Some of them were not "academic experts," and it plays into the idea that they were intimidated, when some depositions were already available on YouTube. Bad job, SF Gate.

  • 68. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 25, 2010 at 9:03 am

    Hey, Lauren Ashley can do it.

  • 69. Sheryl Carver  |  February 25, 2010 at 9:12 am

    Just saw this on the SF Chronicle site:

    "Prop 8 suit closing arguments may be televised"

    Public comment period runs from Feb 4 until next Thursday. I didn't see a link to any site where we could comment online.

    If this has already been posted, please forgive the duplication. I try to keep up with everything here, but sometimes life requires that I do other things. (Dang!)

    Love, Sheryl

  • 70. Bill  |  February 25, 2010 at 9:16 am

    @ Dave T

    A kind and generous soul wants the same things for complete strangers that they want for themself.

    You, my friend, are one of those queer straights that I always tell Fiona she is, as well.

    You're every bit as 'queer' as a gay person. You just happen to be straight. Not that there's anything wrong with that! ; )

    If our struggle for equality speaks to you so strongly, it is because you are chosen to stand up with us.

    LGTB citizens, quite simply, do not have the numbers to defend ourselves against those who created us.

    We RELY on folks JUST LIKE YOU. We NEED you. Without YOU and other allies like Fiona and Straight Grandma, and the others here, we are toast.

    5% can not defend itself against 95%.

    Our TRUE allies mean EVERYTHING to us.

  • 71. waxr  |  February 25, 2010 at 9:17 am

    My reading is the woman must intend to have sexual relations with the animal. Then she is guilty whether she does has sex with it or not. If she merely thinks about doing it, but has no intention of actually doing it, then she is not guilty. This may seem like nit-picking, but authorities on biblical law pay close attention to those little details.

  • 72. waxr  |  February 25, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Daily Bible Passage II
    Deuteronomy 21:18-21
    If a person has a stubborn, rebellious son who pays no attention to his father or mother, and they discipline him to no avail, his father and mother must seize him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his city. They must declare to the elders of his city, “Our son is stubborn and rebellious and pays no attention to what we say – he is a glutton and drunkard.” Then all the men of his city must stone him to death.

  • 73. fiona64  |  February 25, 2010 at 9:34 am

    In addition to what Ronnie said: remember that 300 determined Spartans held off 10,000 Persian troops until the Athenian army could get to Thermopylae.

    Fiona (who is proud to stand beside you all)

  • 74. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 25, 2010 at 9:41 am

    And to add to both fiona's and ronnie's comments, there is also the fact that, like those vastly outnumbered armies who held off their oppressors, we have better strategies. You know, like telling the truth, and showing our faces rather than trying to hide. That is why they are s scared. They know that we have the truth on our side, they kknow that we are not about to go back into the prisons that they all "closets," and they know that very soon, their warped, twisted, perverted views of us and of our allies will be exposed for exactly what they are–scare tactics. that is why the are grasping at straws and why the ones who have given up grasping at straws are imitating the rats on a sinking ship and fleeing for thier very lives. However, that does not mean we can give up our fight now. This is when we need to band together even more tightly and speak out. And for anyone who is in central California, there is a Courage Academy being conducted at Fresno State this Saturday. INformation is on the main Courage Campaign site. Pleas get in touch with them and attend if your schedule permits. We need more equality teams, and we need them to be as strong as you can make them.

  • 75. John  |  February 25, 2010 at 10:21 am

    I give props to the City of Beverly Hills. I don't think this bafoon will go very far in the pageant. Her goal is to probably be the next fox reporter but it seems she may have ruined that too.

    Wouldnt be far fetched to say that her gay friends have put her up to this to show the public how stupid they are sounding about gays and to bring lots of attention to the subject.. I dont think things like this helps the homophobic peoples cause they just end up eventually look like idiots. Gays should not verbally bash her just yet we should just inform people how insane her belief to put gays to death is and how it stems from the bible.

  • 76. Tim  |  February 25, 2010 at 10:26 am

    If she said gays should be put to death she should be charged with a crime for promoting gay violence.

  • 77. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Tim…….. not only did she imply it…she refuses to deny it…as well as using the age old bigot trick…"I have gay friends"….that's total BS….Gay people may be civil to mild bigots or even acquaintances…..but no Gay person would be friends with someone who actually believes that they should be put to death…..Its like what my mother told me about my grandmother….she had no problem with people of color….but practically disowned my mother for dating a african- american man….saying "It is unacceptable for a whit person to be with a black person"….she didn't apologize until the day she died….it all falls under the line…..I love you…but I'm not IN love with you……I love it when bigots try to play the I have gay friends card….another good one is "I have gay co-workers…..Betch that don't make them your friends…..and it is never I have a gay family member or a gay friend, or a trans friend, or a bi friend or even a lesbian friend….It is always and and I mean always…."I have Gay friends"…..I mean seriously…who do think they are talking to when they say the same thing over and over again in the exact same way from every single person….there has to be some subliminal messages they are being brainwashed with that they all sound like POD people when they talk…..JMHO……<3….Ronnie

  • 78. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 10:53 am

    adding to what I said below…she miss-quoted Leviticus and made sure to publicly state the part about gay men being put to death for laying with another man… refusing to deny that she believes that she is admitting that she does believe it….If it wan't true they why would she want the entire world to go on thinking that it is true….If she really felt that is not what she meant…any human being would get on the air right away and apologize and rescind her statement….<3…Ronnie

  • 79. Susan R Barnes  |  February 25, 2010 at 11:14 am

    What an excellent video!

  • 80. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 11:21 am

    OMG….awesome video….<3…Ronnie

  • 81. dieter  |  February 25, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Actor Andrew Koenig — best known for his role as Kirk Cameron's pal Boner on the '80s sitcom Growing Pains — was found dead Thursday in Vancouver, B.C.

    At a press conference attended by Koenig's family Thursday evening, police said the actor's body was discovered "in a densely wood area … unseen from the path" by "family and friends who initiated their own private search." (His father, Star Trek actor Walter Koenig, was among the people who joined in on the search.)

    Foul play is not suspected.

    "My son took his own life," his father Walter told reporters, adding that his son had been battling depression.

    "Don't ignore it; don't rationalize it," he said in regards to depression. "Extend a hand."

  • 82. Linda  |  February 25, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Dieter–that's tragic news.

  • 83. Linda  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Perfect example–one of my ultra-conservative Christian relatives has this as her fb status.
    "Did you know that the Bible is the Truth? Why do we question it then?"

    That is the mindset of these people. There's no reasoning with them, because that is their premise; as Felyx said in an earlier stream, that is their perception, and that shapes their reality.

  • 84. Linda  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    I know, Ronnie; and I agree with your view. They use scripture as a cop-out. They can throw their hands up and say, "Hey, I have nothing against you guys; it's God! He's the one who said this stuff. And who can argue with him? He's the boss!"

    They can excuse their hatred and prejudice and bigotry by claiming no responsibility. And they do this over and over.

    And if you try to argue with them, they just shake their heads and say that you're arguing with God. They didn't make the rules, He did.

    You're wrong; you chose to be gay, and you need to get out of that 'lifestyle'. God loves you, and he wants you to be whole. (And if you don't change, you're going to hell; so there, you vile, sick person!)

    Let's face it, Christianity is boring. Passion is sinful; lust is forbidden. Sex is purely for procreation. The only emotion that's allowed is adoration of God, and hatred for his enemies. And there you go, we're God's number one enemy right now. So Christians can get all passionate about hating us. It's a holy war to them; Armegeddon and the End Times all rolled into one!

    We are the evil ones; we are probably the anti-Christ. We are going to bring about the downfall of the USA. God is going to destroy it because of us.

    I could go on and on with this drivel. I grew up being taught this stuff.

    Talk about vile!

  • 85. Kathleen  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Ugh, Linda. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this from your relatives.

    Even though there were lots of religious people in my extended family (Southern Baptists and Mormons, no less), my mom was an atheist so I was protected from all the proselytizing from the person who meant the most to me.

    (big hugs)

  • 86. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    And then first I say… you speak for "God"….wow how special….can you ask her what the weather is going to be like on my b-day?….because I would like to plan accordingly…..And then they are surprised when "God" doesn't stop them from getting punched in the throat…..with an open palm…after all I am a lady first and a man second….hehehe…..<3….Ronnie

  • 87. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    I'm really not a violent person…and I would never hit someone first…but I am really good at pushing the right buttons when all they have to do is touch me in some way…like touching my arm to say I will pray for you (true story) then WHAM!!!…..don't put your hands on me…it really is that simple…first you say that I should be put to death and that I will burn in hell….then you touch my arm…..POAW!!!!….I felt threatened and its self defense(true story)…..hehehe….<3…Ronnie

  • 88. Linda  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    And that's another thing; you'd think they'd notice how ineffective their prayers are….about ANYTHING! That used to baffle me when I was still caught in all that craziness. I mean, you pray and pray, and beg and beg…..and……NOTHING! BIG FAT ZERO RESPONSE!!! Now, I don't know about you guys, but when I call someone and the phone rings and rings and rings….well, I finally conclude that NO ONE IS THERE!!!


  • 89. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    And also….its the 21st century…..why don't you or "God" have voice mail?……..<3….Ronnie

  • 90. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Such a tragedy. I have to admire Koenig, sr, who, for those of us who watched it, will always be Mr. Chekov, for reminding people not to make light of depression, not to sweep it under the carpet, and for calling for increased awareness. Only if we are able to increase awareness of depression and reduce the stigma that goes along with any attempts to seek out help for mental health issues will we see others saved from this type of tragedy. My heart and my prayers go out to not only his immediate family, but also to his extended family, including his friends. As we all know, "friends" are the family we choose in addition to the family we were given.

  • 91. Richard Walter (soon  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    And when someone tells me "God said it," I look at them and say, "Oh, isn't that wonderful? You can read G-d's mind! YOu know, the last time I tried that trick, I heard her laughing at me, and it was not a very pretty sound. How do you get by with it? Or do you ignore Her laugher so that you can push your misinterpretation on others?" It usually leaves them imitating fish.

  • 92. Felyx  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    "This may seem like nit-picking, but authorities on biblical law pay close attention to those little details."

    Authorities on biblical law paying attention to details….that's funny. No seriously…..I know what you are saying but this line just had me laughing my ass off!!!

    Oh dear god!!! If only!!!! I might suggest substituting the word 'nit-picking and chosing'…..just 'cause.

    Love ya WAXR! You made my day! Love Felyx

  • 93. Linda  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Thanks Kathleen. Btw, are you familiar with the Freedom From Religion Foundation ( Great organization. They affiliate themselves with the Freethinkers (isn't that a great name for a philosophy? Love it). Anyway, just thought I'd pass that link along.


  • 94. Felyx  |  February 25, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Awesome new word for the day (from the above article…)

    Ready…? Ok…

    Antihomonuptial legislation!!!!!

    Ridiculous word for a moronic concept….gotta love it!!!

  • 95. Kathleen  |  February 25, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Hi Linda,

    I do know about the FFRF. The combination of my mom's beliefs and the exposure over the years to so many different religions always left me feeling like an outside observer and I just never got sucked into any of it. All aside from the question of believing in the supernatural (which I leave as an open question), I always said: show me a religion that truly treats women as equals and doesn't condemn the fact that I've fallen in love with both women and men in my life, and I'll consider it….

    Fact is, I know, at LEAST as certainly as all those Bible-thumpers "know" what they know – that I am a beloved person with a rightful place in the universe. The ways in which I fall short of perfection have absolutely nothing to do with being a woman or who it is I love. I know this in my very core. But it doesn't change the fact that I get angry when people act as though our country is meant to be a theocracy. How dare they use their own fears to propagate so much hatred and pain in the world!

  • 96. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    Ah….see that is where you are wrong Bill…..The American colonials stood up against England…..who out numbered them and had better equipment…..but in our case we have the better equipment…..and then there’s my fist….which is very good at defending me….you can ask the guy who I put in the hospital after he “tried” to bash me…..<3…Ronnie

  • 97. Richard Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 25, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Not only that, but they are forgetting the fact that the Prop h8 supporters withdrew their “experts” because their testimony was more helpful to the cause of marriage equality than it was to the side of discrimination.

  • 98. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 25, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    A very effective video making the rounds:


  • 99. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    I need some help….I’m making a vid using the pics from the “NO H8” campaign and I have already chosen the music….now comes the hardest part….there is almost 3 thou pics and 1st I narrowed it down to 600 and now I am at 350 but I do like, like 50 more….how many pics do you think can fit into a 5 min vid…..there are so many really good ones and my head is spinning on which ones to take out….let me know your o.p…….<3…Ronnie

  • 100. Jay  |  February 25, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    Ronnie – you're so right. And why would she say anything more? She's had the fifteen minutes of fame she clearly craved so much.

    Welcome to the Big Brother generation – people who will do literally ANYTHING to become famous.

  • 101. Linda  |  February 25, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Ronnie–‘She’ didn’t say it; ‘God’ said it. That’s the standard defense. That’s how they absolve themselves. They can hate us, damn us to hell, call us all kinds of horrible names, accuse us of vile acts; and then, in the next breath, tell us they love us and only want to see us whole and set free from our sins. After all, it’s God’s word. Therefore there’s no arguing; it’s absolute.

    That’s why they HAVE to believe that we chose to be gay. If we really were born this way, that means their religion is faulty; and that just cannot be. We have to be wrong; because they can’t be.

    It’s that simple.

    Sick, isn’t it?


  • 102. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    You see Linda that’s where they get it wrong in my eyes….for me if it came out of your mouth…you said it….and you will be held accountable for it….and then I say to them “i’m not a pacifist….or your mother…I will hit you”…….<3….Ronnie

  • 103. Ronnie  |  February 25, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Well it’s time for a reality check…..a nice big slap across the face…..Cher style “SNAP OUT OF IT”….. that will be heard in China….should do the job…don’t you think?……<3…Ronnie

  • 104. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 25, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    Unless they’ve killed people for working on the Sabbath (Exodus 35:2; Numbers 15:32-36) or disobeying their parents (Deuteronomy 21:18-21), they’re pikers.

  • 105. G.Rod  |  February 25, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    Third Attempt Blocked
    DC Feb 25: A court motion to block Washington's same-sex marriage law from going into effect at the conclusion of Congress's 30-day legislative review period was denied. This means on March 3 same-sex couples in the District will be able to legally wed.

    The reasons for the decision will be relaease Monday, but the route to the expected appeal the decision would take longer than the two intervening days.

  • 106. G.Rod  |  February 25, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    But religion has not been kept in its place as can be seen in California, Maine and DC. And the churches themselves can hide behind their 'arms-length' organizations

    SSM is not the first or only time in which they have misplaced themselves in the affairs of civil society. It will not be the last.

    It is not surprising that Catholics get confused. The Vatican is not only the head office of a religious organization but it is a State. The Church of England for much of its existence was the state religion of Britain.

  • 107. Felyx  |  February 25, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    G. Rod, could you post the link?

    How the hell can someone try to block self governance legislation through the legal system?!!!
    I thought 'conservatives' were against activist judges!!!

    Sure would like to know more, Felyx.

  • 108. carlwillis  |  February 26, 2010 at 4:20 am

    We are in agreement.

    My point was that Miss Beverly Hills' interpretation of the bible isn't "misguided" like Brian says it is. Religious interpretations are entirely subjective, and reflect upon the character, the values, the intellect, and the erudition of the person making the interpretations. If Ms. Ashley says her scripture condemns gays, then it condemns gays, and she personally is a bigot who ought to be thrown in a time machine and whisked away to an age when fellow thick-skulled hominids lurched around clad in animal skins, grunting and bruiting and dragging clubs. If you say the bible offers a big warm fuzzy to everyone, then so it does…whatever. Now there are various academic disciplines involved with studying the bible's historicity, its language, influences, and so on, and objective conclusions can be drawn from this research. But it's a mistake to think those findings necessarily have (or should have) any bearing at all on peoples' superstitious neolithic horsecrap.

    A person's religion is that person's fault. It can and will be used against them in the court of my mind. They have the right to remain silent, thereby retaining some respect.

  • 109. Ed-M  |  February 26, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    True in that, Richard. Once we're out of the closet you can't force us back in. It's like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube. But I'm sure if these religious bigots were to gain power and force LGBTIQQ youth into the closet, they'll use the penis plethysmograph (do I have that right?) to suss out all, and I mean all male teenagers who have sexually "incorrect" tendencies. And put them to death. Of course, LBTIQQ females are not as important to them. Ugh.

  • 110. erasure25  |  March 2, 2010 at 4:19 am

    Mayor Krasne is quite a character. She often catwalks into the City Council chambers adorned in enough diamonds, emeralds, rubies and other such jewels to make any drag queen green with envy! I had the pleasure of watching local government action in Beverly Hills, and while I didn't agree with some of the things Mayor Krasne said (she was a City Council member at the time), it's clear that she cares a great deal about the City and its residents. It's good to hear that she also supports diversity and respect.

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