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“TheCall”: On the road to Sacramento for the “NOM tour on steroids”

Right-wing TheCall

(Arisha and crew are on the road to Sacramento to cover “The Call,” which we told you about this morning. Before leaving today, she wrote the following. — Eden)

By Arisha Hatch

It’s been more than two weeks since the last NOM Tour rally in Washington D.C. and I still don’t feel back to normal yet.

Home just doesn’t seem the same somehow. I’ve been going through NOM withdrawals. Have you?

But the road calls again and just in time. We have another opportunity to expose the religious right’s attempts to harm LGBT families. Phyllis and Anthony are in, as well as, a couple of additions to our Courage Tracker team.

Fortunately, we won’t be putting as many miles on the rental car this time because this event is in our own backyard. We’re headed to Sacramento to attend Lou Engle’s two-day mega-rally “The Call.”

We’re not quite sure what we’re in for but a statement from The Call’s web site describes it as “summoning thousands of young and old . . . to gather in Sacramento as consecrated, intercessory representatives from, and on behalf of, California and every state to “altar” their lives, “altar” their states, and “altar” the nation.”

Oddly, The Call’s website did not list any public speakers until just recently and no specific agenda (but we’re sure there will be one). We hear Newt Gingrich is linked to the event somehow and we know that he shouldn’t be talking about monogamy or marriage. All this is to say, we’re not quite sure what kind of show it will be, but we’re betting it will provide an interesting window into the intersection of fundamentalist religion and right-wing politics.

For those who haven’t seen The Call’s promotional video yet (what Eden called the “NOM tour on steroids”), here it is again:



  • 1. Richard W. Fitch  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:50 am

    Looks like I get to be FIRST to accept the mail call. Just don't altar my left-wing, Episcopalian viewpoint.

  • 2. Ann S.  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:51 am

    Answering the call!

    (for more emails).

    Thank you, Courage Campaign, for going where no other sane persons would go!

  • 3. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:51 am

    Call for email.

  • 4. Brandon B  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:51 am

    Long-time lurker, first-time poster (I think)….

    I am leaving San Francisco for Sacramento within the next 10-15 minutes to show up and do what I can. If you're organizing a counterprotest or are going yourself, I'd love to link up with you in SAC.

    Shoot me a message at if you're down for joining forces, and I'll send you more contact info.

    I'm planning to get there ASAP, then get posterboard from Office Depot if necessary.

    I want to make sure this event isn't answered in some way or form! See y'all there!

  • 5. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:52 am

    Arisha, I am going to wait for the videos and reports that you, Ant, and Phyllis post. My sides are still sore from the retching I did after watching Engle the first time. But I will pray for him that he will see the light and come to realize that he is NOT a monster just because he is gay. What makes him a monster is that he is using whatever talents he has to incite violence, not only physical, but mental, verbal, spiritual, and psychological, against the rest of us.

  • 6. Sagesse  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:53 am


    Will you get to attend the sessions? Is this like a conference, with a fee? Or will you be attending as 'press'?

    I haven't caught up on any of my messages from today, so apologies if this has been asked and answered.

  • 7. Ronnie  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:57 am

    My cell phone must be on silent because I'm not hearing the call…oh..oooo…oh yeah….ummm…OHHHH!!!….wait whats that?….. ; ) ….Ronnie:

  • 8. Ronnie  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:58 am

    I love good vibrations….oh…(enter you higher power hear) you shouldn't have called so abruptly… ; ) ….Ronnie

  • 9. Eden James  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:04 am

    See the The Call San Diego video just posted from 2008 on this post. It makes The Call Sacramento seem somewhat tame by comparison.

  • 10. Ann S.  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:06 am

    Ohhhhh, now I think I remember The Call San Diego. Ugh, ugh, ugh!

  • 11. Adrenalin Tim  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:10 am

    I used to attend Lou Engle's church, and attended two of the major The Call rallies (London 2002 and Pasadena 2003ish).

    They don't like to publicize the speakers or bands, and their goal is ostensibly solely religious, but it is inescapably tied in with Religious Right political issues—particularly the anti-gay and anti-abortion agenda.

  • 12. Adrenalin Tim  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:15 am

    If it's anything like the Call events I've attended in the past, it will be one large session, with free admission to the whole thing. (Though it's possible that the press may be able to have better seating.)

  • 13. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:21 am

    In short, they are the embodiment of what Fiona has so often posted here–scratch a homophobe, and a misogynist bleeds. They not only believe in oppression based on sexual orientation, but also discrimination based on gender.
    Wonder if Lou Engle's group is the one that wants to found the Republic of Gilead?

  • 14. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:22 am

    Some press will, but the real press, the media that will expose this for what it really is instead of sugarcoating it, will be sentenced to the nosebleed sections.

  • 15. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:39 am

    Bring sunscreen!

  • 16. Dave P.  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:44 am

    The fact that I can't attend the event to join a counter-protest has been frustrating me so I just donated another $100 to CC/P8TT. I challenge others here who can't attend to donate what they can and report back here.

  • 17. Bill  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:47 am

    After watching the people in the video clip, I am overcome with a sense of incredible sadness for those people and for lives wasted.

    I especially feel sad for the children in the video clip. Children who have no choice but to be indoctrinated into this cult.

    Who is protecting THESE children?

  • 18. Michael  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:03 am

    Thank you for covering this event. But once again, where are the pro-equality people of faith? Where are the calls for our side to show up at "The Call" and protest in a non-violent, loving manner and let the participants know that homophobia is a sin? This is where we make the same mistake over and over and over. Instead of confronting these people at these events, we stay away and call them names online. Unless our people of faith–gay and straight–step up to the plate and show that Christ does NOT support the evil anti-gay agenda, we will continue to be reacting instead of setting the debate.

  • 19. Chris  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:04 am

    I hate to say it, but i really like the song in the background…..also that ad is REALLY scary. That many pissed off people in one place with a hate for people who are different is not a pleasant thought!

  • 20. Jim  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:13 am

    Wow. That is a whole different breed of crazy.

  • 21. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:40 am

    Well last time I checked the Courage Campaing is not a faith based organization…so for them to call poepl of faith to this is not their forte.
    You are more than free to organize a showing, or contact one of the many other organizations in the area and piggy back on whatever they are doing.
    Maybe start by contacting MCC or Dignity

  • 22. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:46 am

    me thnks the same, as you, and feel it's part of their agenda, to do this so unannounced that people don't have time to plan counter rallies, they don't want us to be visible,

    and I really believe it is not even about us or homopobia per say, but that is what they are using to focus on as the evil, at which their fear is directed,, they're using us to rile the crowds and sway voters, towards DISCRIMINATION, BASED ON THEOCRACY, don't you all want to be saved. and isn't it true that a judge has voted in favour of SSM. How much more proof do they need.

    Yes a well orchestrated fast, is a tool, to access and control minds, in prep for brainwashing, wonder how many attended workshops in lead up to this event. They sweep the streets,,and entice the homeless and particularily the young, who are hungery for love, and prepare them for this moment of televised conversion. en masse,

    It would be very hard to make a visible appearance, as a counter protest, in such a hudge mob of religious zealouts, but for all thosewho make attempt, my heart and soul are with you, oh for the opportunity to unfurl the Rainbow Flag, and hear choruses of counter singing by our gay choirs.

    But we are only the pawn, the part of humanity to be eliminated, their goal is America, THEOCRACY achieved by DISCRIMINATION

    Has anyone read "The Famiily"

  • 23. anonygrl  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:47 am

    I couldn't watch the videos at work, which is a very good thing.

    Those poor kids! Thousands of them starved for days (did you SEE the thing that said 40 days of fasting???) then subject to loud, repeated and rhythmic rhetoric when their blood sugar is so low they probably can't even remember their own names?

    This is how cults work. This is how brainwashing happens, and these kids will think they have had some sort of religious experience, when in reality they have risked death and organ damage, been fooled by con men, and brainwashed into believing things that they would probably say "Excuse me, what was that?" about if they were in their right minds.

    And for what? Really for what? To line the pockets of some old, rich, white man and his cronies. That is it. This guy makes his nut, possibly donates some to NOM or other groups that support his hate speech, and goes home to his mansion and swimming pool and trophy wife. Or rent boy.

    Parasites like this feed off these kids, because they can. It is horrendous, and hateful.

    I need to go take a shower now, and wash off some of the slime that watching those videos covered me with.

    Oh, and did you notice our friend Velveeta? Isn't that her in the first vid, at 1:47 for about three seconds?

  • 24. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:54 am

    Behold that whole different breed of crazy consider themselves the true Americans, and will become so, if everyone remains silent, shock and awe, to such an extent the average citizen doesn't believe it is happening.

  • 25. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:55 am

    The Call in Sacramento has been scheduled for the last several weeks that I know of, so hardly unannounced

  • 26. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:59 am

    Did you see The Reverend Canon Susan Russell's comment in the previous post? She said California Faith for Equality spokespeople will be there. See her comment here:

  • 27. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:04 am

    Contact Dignity in San Fran

    Metropolitan Community Church in SF

    California Faith for Equality

    These are just three faith based organizations in the area

  • 28. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:08 am

    @Kathleen, thanks for pointing out Reverend Russell's announcement again, it gives me comfort to know she will be there, and people with her, making attempts, and hopefully being successfull at rescuing many children, caught up in this spiritual trauma, she will be the hands and feet of god, on the ground, hope those who need this help will find her, and I hope volunteers going will find a way to connect with her troops and help out. Rainbow Children are at risk of being harmed. Godspeed Reverend Russell

    also kudo's for your posting of Kahlil;s poem on the other thread, how timely,

  • 29. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:11 am

    Great post Mark, I'm sure these resources will have people to at least man the phones, during this spiritual tornado.

  • 30. fiona64  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:16 am

    Exactly. The next thing that will happen is the "love bombing," where these kids are told how much they are loved, how only the leader of the group really understands them, how they will be rewarded if they follow unquestioningly …

    I grew up in Oregon. I remember Rajneeshpuram. :-(


  • 31. fiona64  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:17 am

    PS: The late Isaac P. Bonewits (he passed away very recently) developed what he called the Advanced Bonewits' Cult Danger Evaluation Frame (ABCDEF) that he recommended people look at whenever they considered joining a religious organization.

    For your consideration.


  • 32. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:22 am

    Adrenalin Tim, thanks for this post, your knowledge of these events from having attended previously, may be of some value to us know.

    Would you feel able and willing to tell us more of what happens and what your experience was like.

    How soon before the event were you Called, and what prep if any was require of you, we are hearing of fasting, can you tell us anything more of your experience.

  • 33. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:34 am

    I don't don't if Rev Russell will be there herself. But there will be representatives from California Faith for Equality.

    A for Gibran's poem, I'm appalled at how many parents condition their "love" on children being what the parent thinks they should be. Love doesn't work that way. If parents would spend more time learning to really love their children for who they are, and less on trying to make their children into the people the parents think they should be, the world would be a happier place, and certainly a more peaceful and loving one.

    (that's my rant for the day) :)

  • 34. Ann S.  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:39 am

    But it's our job as parents to try to mold them when they're young, to teach them about fairness, work ethic, values, etc.

    Then we have to transition to stepping back and just loving who they are. It's a continuous process, but with our daughter being 16 I feel we're kind of at the crux of it (but ask me again in 2 years when she'll have left for college). Any values we haven't taught her yet, she's probably not going to get from us. We have to accept that.

    I think some people never do accept that?

  • 35. bJason  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:49 am

    This is almost cripplingly disturbing. These people were bullied as children and are now – by God, come hell or high water – going to BE the bullies.

    It IS cult-speak. All of you are correct in this.

    Teenagers long for love and acceptance. At that age, I remember feeling an unending and paralyzing NEED to belong. To be accepted. These people are preying on that most visceral need. They are cannibals!

    The parents sending their children to these events are so excruciatingly afraid that their children may question the parents' myopic view of the world that they don't even fathom the potential risk to the safety and psyche of these kids.

    My mom is a follower of these cults. I am one of these children. Even at the age of 42, seeing this makes me want to hide in a corner and hold my breath until I don't need it anymore.

    The damage can be irreparable.


    Think of the kids, goddammit!

  • 36. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:50 am

    So much of that teaching comes from example, rather than what you say, anyway, don't you think? It's been my experience that you teach a child to be respectful by respecting them, and how to be fair by exhibiting fairness.

  • 37. Ann S.  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:53 am

    Yes, largely by example. Also by modeling the behavior you want from them, and talking about issues that come up.

  • 38. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:54 am

    I'm heartbroken reading of your experience, bJason. It is so difficult to get past the kind of abuse you were subjected to as a child. I hope you're figuring out that it happened because of something lacking in your parent, not you. HUGS!! xoxoxo

  • 39. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Kathleen, and Ann, you're like universal mothers, on this site, offering love unconditionally, I've watched you do it time and again, especially when young people come out.

    I'm a little old for this, but I am very poor at exeriencing and returning love with my mother,

    She says I will never understand a mother's love because I am gay and do not have children of my own, she says that bars me from knowing her love for me. I thought I didn't ge it because her love was conditional, on me conforming to her values.

    What do you say about a mothers love, would a child without children, still understand and feel love from their mother.

  • 40. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:06 am

    @bJason, thanks for sharing the intimate feelings this event arouses in you, and I'm glad we have a place here, thanks to courage campaign for expressing these feelings, use this as a release, and know that it is share and witnessed.

    I have never heard a more profound example of my own experience re hide in a corner and hold my breath until I don't need it anymore. , there willl be a time when we don't need breath, but that time is not today, so let go , of the one you're holding onto, and let the next one come and wash over you, we are safe here, and when we feel at peace our bodies actually breath on their own, so we can let go also of the thoughts we hold onto and let them flow through us, be in the moment, know you are loved, breathe you are not alone.

  • 41. Ann S.  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Bob, I understand something about what your mother is saying. I don't think I quite got how much my mother must love us until I felt that same sort of love for my child. I don't think that is just because she is my biological child, though. I think adopting a child could certainly have the same effect.

    My daughter probably doesn't get how much I love her, and maybe she never will. She says she doesn't want kids. That's just how it is.

    So I understand some of what your mother means, but it's a very cruel and useless thing to say to your child, IMO. It's like asking someone to compare their love. I mean, I could tell my daughter I love her more than she loves me (this is not something I do), but only if that is in a loving way. There is a beautiful children's book called "Guess how Much I Love You", where a father and baby rabbit lovingly compete with comparisons as to their love, thinking of bigger and bigger things to compare their love to. It ends when the baby says, "I love you up to the moon", thinking this is the biggest distance imaginable, and then falls asleep. The daddy whispers, "I love you up to the moon, and back again."

    I'm rambling, but what I'm trying to say is that what your mother is saying perhaps isn't said in a very loving way, it seems to me, and thus isn't helpful to the dialog between you. If she's saying "I love you more than you'll ever know" in a sort of punitive way, that is so not helpful.

    Having said all this, my relationship with my own mother isn't the best it could be for various reasons. My having a daughter hasn't changed that for the better at all.

  • 42. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:08 am

    I'm not sure I understand your question, Bob. I think it's possible to understand what real love is, whether or not you've had children. Having a child is a great lesson in learning unconditional love, but it's not the only way to learn it. I can't speak to what your mother feels for you. But if you do not feel loved, or feel that you can only be loved by her if you weren't gay, it would seem to me that she hasn't yet learned how to give the kind of love that children need from their parents. And if that's the case, I'm really sorry and hope you have found another way to learn that you are deserving of love.

    If you want to continue this rather personal conversation, perhaps it's best to carry it on through email. xoxoxo

  • 43. Chris in Lathrop  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:14 am

    We could really use Isaac right about now, too. Sigh. Blessed be, brother Isaac!

  • 44. anonygrl  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Hardly a rant, dear Kathleen. Just very good advice for parents everywhere, and advice that is all to often ignored or forgotten.

  • 45. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Btw, Ann, as I'm sure you realize (all too well, no doubt!) the teen years are tough – for the kids and the parents. I stumbled my way through them with my kids the best I could and we all came out relatively unscathed. :) It was a profound learning experience for all concerned. My heart goes out to you. xoxoxo

  • 46. anonygrl  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:19 am

    That was beautiful, Bob.

  • 47. Ray in MA  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Ahhhhh, our friend Velveeta! (I saw her spazzing out in the video too… was she pounding the stage saying "God! give us real cheese and give us real marriage!!!" ?)

    As you said, she is not 'real cheese' and she is NOT the 'Big Cheese!!!!'

  • 48. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Kathleen and Anne, such wisdom, especially Kathleen for knowing this may be best undertaken in another form, it is a very personal nature, and I do sense I could learn some things from you, also I still would love to see a picture of your poppies. maybe I will start by friending you on facebook.

    Anne, my heart is open, in such a way that I think I could fall out or too much could come in, it's a very vulnerable place, and one my dear friend Barb brought me too just before she passed away, that was the love we shared and the realization that it didn'lt involve sex, blew my mind.

    Sorrry for rambling but that is the feeling I experienced from the honesty of your sharing, from your perspective as a mother, and still not feeling accomplished in the experience with your own mother, we are after all , all working on the same thing, and it certainly helps me eminsely to know a person I hold on a pedistal, struggles with the same issue.

    If Kathleen and I get into some dialog on this maybe you could join.

  • 49. Ray in MA  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:29 am

    We're all waiting to exhale.

  • 50. Jen-Bunny  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Does anyone know the when and where of this event tonight? I'd like to meet up with the P8TT team, as I live only 40 miles east of Sac. Thanks for the info! Email me at

  • 51. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Bob, I'd be glad to accept a facebook friends request. Click on my name here to be taken to my fb page.

  • 52. bJason  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:43 am

    I know that my posts about how much you rock probably seem base and maybe even annoying. I can't help myself sometimes. You (and many others here) fight for a cause that is not your own. Civil Liberties, yes, should be fought for by all of us. But what I mean is at the most base level, you have no "dog in this fight" (you, Kathleen, REALLY SHOULD have had at least one gay child :) )!

    Our straight allies can't really imagine, I don't think, what it is like to live and breathe while being assaulted with the messages that YOU are not OK; that YOU are an abomination; that it is accepted and even expected of others to harass, physically/mentally harm and even murder YOU. Please keep reading….

    I am overwhelmed daily by the passion, conviction and commitment of our allies. For no other reason than it is right and just. You and others here could easily spend your time, energy and prodigious skills elsewhere. You would almost definitely suffer a lot less headache and heartache.

    Cookies for the lurkers are great. Would that I could give jewels to our allies. We can't win this without each and every one of you. I can't express my gratitude in words beyond that.

    I am in this fight because my life depends on it. Our allies are here because their hearts know no bounds.

    My debt to each of you cannot be repaid.

  • 53. Phillip R  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:48 am

    There's nothing scarier (or more dangerous) than a religious zealot. There's no logic…no reason…no talking to them. If any of you are going to the event, please be careful.

  • 54. bJason  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Thank you, Bob. Beautiful words of love and peace. I find them here daily. I'm sure I am not the only one.

    It is always darkest before the dawn. We ARE on the cusp of freedom. I won't give up. None of us should.

  • 55. DK  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:57 am

    @bJason…I'm in tears (again). As a multiracial straight woman who has been fortunate to not have really experienced any serious gender/race discrimination I can't really know what it's like to have walked in your shoes. I have GLBT friends and relatives and I know a little of what they have to deal with, but it is the honesty of so many posters here (like you bJason) that has really driven that home to me. Big warm HUGS to you, I am so sorry that you had to endure such pain and humbled by your ability to share it. I owe YOU a debt.

  • 56. Ray in MA  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Speaking of the o'l Velveeta, she is exemplified in this video:

    (warning: this video does not differentiate between the good Christians from the questionable ones… parental discretion is advised)

    How to Hate the Gays – Your Guide to Becoming a Bigot

  • 57. bJason  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Any debt you feel – your post, alone, has repaid.

    Our strength is in being with each other.

    Hugs CAN change the world.

    Please accept mine, and my thanks!

    <3 Jason

  • 58. Anna Bryan  |  September 3, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Remember how NOM is in court in Maine saying they shouldn't have to reveal their donors' names because they could be harassed? Isn't it a little odd that their bus driver, Louis, is tweeting the names and phone numbers of donors to their oponents and asking you to call and harass them?

  • 59. Anna Bryan  |  September 3, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    I forgot, HI LOUIS!

  • 60. Marlene  |  September 3, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    We do… his name is Ted patrick, and he was one of the first cult deprogrammers to expose the lies of the Moonies, the Hare Krishna, and especially Scientology.

    He's been arrested a few times for "kidnapping" and spent time in prison for trying to rescue victims of these cults.

    In 1976, he wrote an excellent book called Let Our Children Go!, which chronicled his life and his early rescues of cult victims. He also gives a checklist of what to watch our for when cults are recruiting you.

  • 61. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Has anyone reported this to the boards of elections in the areas affected? And why does this bit of hypocrisy not surprise me?

  • 62. Anna Bryan  |  September 3, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    I think it's legal, just hypocritical.

  • 63. Kate  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Jim Jones, redux.

  • 64. Lightning Baltimore  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    It's only harassment if they are on the receiving end.

    For example:

    When business owners who did not support Prop 8 prior to the vote were threatened with exposure as fag-lovers, that was reasonable. The public has a right to know who supports disease-ridden, depraved homosexuals, so they can take their business elsewhere.

    On the other hand, when businesses lost customers after Prop 8, for supporting it, that was just proof of how horrible and evil the gays are.

    This is why donor lists must be kept secret! Otherwise, good, wholesome, upstanding people who only want to see LGBT citizens rightfully marginalized, and hopefully incarcerated, will be afraid to secretly vote away the civil rights of the evil gays.

  • 65. Lightning Baltimore  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    oooooops . . . SUB-SUB-SUB-SUB-SUBCRIBE!

  • 66. Paul in Minneapolis  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Ray, that was hysterical! I LOVED the part about "curing the straight" by imagining having sex with Wendy Wright! And "dick harmony with Jesus!" Gonna be laughing for days now…!

  • 67. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    YAY! That's sweet.

    I donated, too : )

  • 68. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    That is why I can't bear to be face-to-face with this stuff too much (though if I were with a bunch of friends, it might be different.) It's just incredibly sad. All my life I've lived in cosmopolitan cities to avoid people like that.

  • 69. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Yuh! Count me out!

  • 70. AndrewPDX  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Late to the party… looks like I didn't get their 'Call'… Thank God!

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 71. Adrenalin Tim  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Some press will, but the real press, the media that will expose this for what it really is instead of sugarcoating it, will be sentenced to the nosebleed sections.

    You're probably right, Richard, that they will likely give preferential treatment to press they think will treat them favorably. Nonetheless, based on past experience I doubt there will be very much to "expose".

    Would you feel able and willing to tell us more of what happens and what your experience was like.

    Bob, thanks for the invitation. I'd be happy to talk about my previous experience with The Call. But I'm not really sure where to start, or what to say. There's such a wide cultural divide that it seems very difficult to promote understanding instead of just invective.

    One of the most important things to be said is that these are not violent people. They have a lot of kooky beliefs, they follow revisionist histories (of America's founding, of the origins of the pro-choice and equality movements…), they use militaristic metaphorical language for what they believe to be divine governance—but these are not, by and large, people who are stocking up bunkers, forming militias and plotting the violent overthrow of the government.

    (Having said that, I am concerned with the militaristic imagery—I think it legitimizes those who would take the language a little too seriously, the Hutarees and the Scott Roeders of the US.)

    For the most part, these people are seeking first and foremost a religious, not a political, solution to what they regard as societal ills. In "crying out for revival", they seek a bottom-up movement to alter the cultural landscape. To that degree I respect them—in my experience the emphasis wasn't on electing the right people and forcing compliance on the masses, but on winning people's hearts and minds to their agenda.

    Of course they're deeply misguided, and they've been sold a lie in the form of culture war politics. Engle's group was one of the most prominent in the Terri Schiavo spectacle in 2005.

    In the early 00's, when I was involved, marriage equality had not yet become such a prominent issue, to my recollection. I remember a lot of fervent prayers for God to "end abortion", but very little about teh gayz.

    A lot changes in ~8 years.

    I'm happy to share more of my experiences (and I'm excited to read Arisha's account of this weekend's events). Feel free to ask me anything else you'd like to know about my time as an insider to that movement.

  • 72. AndrewPDX  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    @Ann S
    <cite>But it’s our job as parents to try to mold them when they’re young, to teach them about fairness, work ethic, values, etc.</cite>

    Sounds like the Crosby Stills Nash and Young song. . . .

    Teach your children well,
    Their father's hell did slowly go by,
    And feed them on your dreams
    The one they picked, the one you'll know by.

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 73. Zachary  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Those videos are really, really scary. Even for as disgusting as the NOM tour was, none of the footage from that, even, left me quite this immediately disturbed.

    Whole different breed of crazy, indeed.

  • 74. Ann S.  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    Bob, I'll be happy to continue this dialog. I'm one of Kathleen's FB friends, if that works for a venue.

  • 75. BK  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    I always feel so depressed when stuff like this comes up. I'm more liberal a Christian than all my family–extended and immediate–and a gay Christian, too. Organizations and videos like this make it seem like I'm trying to bring down the US, trying to destroy it, blah blah blah. Like I'm an agent for Satan or something, geez. Good vs. Evil this November? Perhaps, but it makes me wonder which is truly the 'evil' side.

  • 76. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    @ Andrew PDX: Here you go!

  • 77. Ann S.  |  September 4, 2010 at 4:05 am

    You just look at them and sigh,
    And know they love you.

  • 78. Jon  |  September 4, 2010 at 5:04 am

    There's a reason that actual Christian seminaries have serious requirements and long waiting periods: to weed out those who thought they heard a call but in fact heard something else. NOM shows us what happens when you don't do that weeding. You get people in charge who heard voices, that's for sure, but it wasn't God's voice. Not so much.

  • 79. Jon  |  September 4, 2010 at 5:07 am

    It's a classic mistake: believing you know the mind of God and He just happens to share all your prejudices. It's an easy mistake to fall into. Jesus warned against it repeatedly: judge not, don't believe you need to correct your neighbor, etc.

  • 80. Ann S.  |  September 4, 2010 at 8:17 am

    Wow, I went and looked at what they are tweeting today — more of the same scary stuff.

  • 81. Ahab  |  September 5, 2010 at 2:33 am

    Ah, I wish I could have live-streamed this insane event! A family event came first, so I couldn't do so. I'm delighted that Prop 8 Trial Tracker has commentary!

  • 82. Angela  |  September 6, 2010 at 5:00 am

    I find it amazing that so many people still believe that those who are homosexual are still being persecuted. Out First Amendment gives us freedom of religion. But it is that First Amendment that is under fire. It is religion that is now being persecuted.
    The Call is not for violence…bigotry…hatred. It's about everlasting love. The never-failing love of Christ who is the only One that will not ever leave you. The institution of the Church has been exalting itself above God…turning away those who seek Christ. But true Christianity is what we showed on Friday and Saturday…Love.
    Whether or not you believe that you were born gay or chose to be…there is always that one choice we should all make…and that's to come back to God, through Christ. I did after living a gay lifestyle for 14 years. It's the most important and amazing choice to make in your life.
    All voices should be heard…including ours.

  • 83. Ronnie  |  September 6, 2010 at 5:19 am

    No not really…that "call" was a call for anti-American fascism, dictatorship, tyranny, & pure hate….I live NO so called "gay lifestyle"…thats just a facetious lie propagated by anti-gay non-humans & their disgusting repugnant ability to live under the impression that they have any right to define the personal lives of other people for other people who. You don't know shite about the persecution towards the LGBT community in this country so get over yourself…. > I …Ronnie

  • 84. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 6, 2010 at 5:22 am

    And when those voices from the pseudo-Christians who claim that the First Amendment is under fire twist the facts, that is hypocrisy. You see, it is not the First Amendment that is under fire. What is truly under fire is the Fourteenth Amendment. There is a difference between saying that you cannot codify your religious views into the law and impose your view of religion and morality on the rest of America, and attacking the freedom of religious expression guaranteed in the First Amendment. Your freedom of religious expression only extends to the point of where you try to impose your religous beliefs upon me, or upon any other personj in this country. YOu are still free to have your little Hitler trainings and bill them as religious gatherings. But you cannot force me to renounce my religious beliefs or my freedom of religious expression just because they do not agree with yours. Nobody is attacking you or your religious beliefs. However, those who do not want to see my marriage recognized legally by the secular government are definitely attacking me, my husband, and our family. Remember that RAbbi Yoshua ben Yosef of Nazareth said Render unto Ceasar what is Caesar, and unto God what is God's. That means that even he believed in keeping the church out of politics and politics out of the church. However, what the Radical Right Wing Religious Fourth Reichers are advocating with events like the call is turning this country into a theocracy like the Republic of Gilead, and if you think they are going to stop when they finish stripping the rights to live from the LGBTQQI community and our supporters, then you really need to look at what else they stand for. Do you really want to return to the time of coverture, when a woman could not even inherit from her husband upon his death, and was only allowed to have a roof overhead because her children chose to allow her to stay at the house they had inherited? Do you really want to be a submissive slave to your husband, and then your son when your husband dies? If so, then you should move to Iran or Iraq, where they have a theocracy. Until then, realize that this is a constitutional democratic republic, a pluralistic nation, not a theocracy, and please do not come here trying to justify the lies that they are telling to those who choose to starve themselves and weaken their reasoning capabilities to the point that they can be led like sheep to the slaughter. And please do not try to pressure me into accepting your belief system, because I cannot abide discrimination and death threats.

  • 85. AndrewPDX  |  September 6, 2010 at 5:23 am

    Thank you for your post. Your voice is heard… just not agreed with.

    Yes, the First Amendment is under attack — from those like Mike Huckabee who is quoted as wanting to "turn this nation back to God, as Jesus is our only hope,” he is expressly trampling on the First Amendment Rights of those who are Jewish, Muslim, Pagan, Wiccan, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic, Buddhist, an so forth.

    By claiming that your version of Christianity should be the law, you are also attacking those followers of Christ who do not believe in your interpretation of Scriptures.

    When you say that the joy that God has given us is 'a plague', as Cindy called it, those are not words of Love.

    And as for homosexuals being persecuted, since there are still weekly news articles of people being killed for just being gay, I'd say that yes this is still happening. Just think of poor baby Roy who was killed not two months ago in New York for being 'too girly'.

    I have chosen Christ as my personal saviour, and I am gay. I am thankful that God has created me as I am, a unique and wonderful creation, an individual with a mind and free will and a love of life.

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 86. Bob  |  September 6, 2010 at 5:26 am

    @Angela, well there, I agree, I think your story should be told, give us some details, tell it like it is

  • 87. Beth  |  September 6, 2010 at 7:17 am

    Why is it scary for people to gather together and pray over their nation and pray for things that are on their heart. Who is forcing anything upon anyone when prayers are being lifted up to God? How is that forcing 'religious beliefs' upon someone? It is interesting to me that what you hold sacred and important can't be prayed about because that is intolerance. Yet the beliefs I hold sacred and important shouldn't be because it messes with what has become the socially acceptable fabric of this country. When I pray, I am not praying in your face. I am praying with MY face bowed down and my eyes focused on God. Why is my non-acceptance of certain choices people make in life perceived, viewed, twisted as an attack..yet, the very vocal non-acceptance of my beliefs is spun as okay. I don't need a protest to obtain the answer, the help that is needed. I just need to pray.

  • 88. Tony Douglass in Ca  |  September 6, 2010 at 7:30 am

    You can pray all you want, nobody here has ever said you couldn't. But if you are referring to what they were doing at "the call", that wasn't JUST about gathering together and praying, it was about mobilizing a force to change CIVIL GOVERNMENT to match THEIR religions views. Watch the videos posted here, they are full of calls to action to force their views on to the state and the country.

    THAT is the problem that I have with that event.

  • 89. Adrenalin Tim  |  September 6, 2010 at 7:51 am


    What's scary is not mere prayer, is not merely your private beliefs and moral choices. No one would make a peep about your "non-acceptance of certain choices people make in life", if you kept it to that.

    The First Amendment guarantees you the right not to associate with left-handed people, to forbid your family members from eating at Red Lobster, to hold signs outside Macy's condemning them for selling clothes of mixed fibers.

    The First Amendment guarantees others the right to ignore or ridicule you for your irrational hatred and bigotry.

    What moves us into the realm of "attack", what actually becomes an imposition, is when you begin to insist that because your religious beliefs require non-acceptance of Red Lobster, therefore no one should be allowed to eat there, and it should be enforced by civil law.

  • 90. pablo  |  September 6, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    Favorite quote from the event, "How can you even think to bring a judgement against the GLT community when divorce is running rampant in the church?! Get you own house in order!" – Lou Engle (or as some people like to think of him, The Devil). To me, that sounded pretty right on.

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