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Adults who teach kids to bully, NOM, and why it’s hard to tell the two apart

NOM Exposed NOM Tour Tracker-California Right-wing

By Adam Bink

Over at Huffington Post, Keli Goff has an interesting piece on the recent gay teen suicides. In it, she discusses her African-American mother’s difficulty with racial bullying when she was in school, and argues that the adults are the ones to blame, here (bolding mine):

As I noted on Monday’s episode of “The Dylan Ratigan Show,” in these recent cases it is alleged that the students and their families sought help from various school officials with limited and disappointing results. But I have a hard time believing that if these kids had been bullied for their race, not for their sexual identities, that the adults tasked to protect them would not have reacted differently, or at the very least would have reacted at all.

Which makes me think that the kids doing the bullying are not really the ones at fault. They are simply taking their cues from adults. And the message they are receiving is that today in 2010 it may not be okay to call someone the N-word on the playground, but it is okay to call someone the F-word.

Ten years ago Matthew Shepard’s death became a rallying cry for college students of my generation. Many of us assumed (naively, we now know) that the kind of blatant, violent homophobia Matthew suffered would be a thing of the past in the near future. In the last decade our country has advanced significantly on the issue of gay rights, with a majority of Americans now supporting a variety of measures for gays and lesbians that they didn’t just a few years ago. We also have more openly gay public figures and elected officials than we ever have. But the deaths of Asher, Billy, Seth, Tyler and Raymond show that we still have work to do.

We need more adults willing to display the kind of courage that my mother’s principal did all of those years ago, when he stood up for someone because it was the right thing to do, not because it was the popular or politically correct thing to do. Because until we as adults confront homophobia head on, our kids are going to continue to victimize other kids and think it’s okay and that they have our blessing to do so.

While I think Keli may give the bullies a bit too much of a free pass in terms of fault, given that we don’t know where many of them “got it from”, I think she is on the right track here. I bold the last paragraph is because I question what kind of influence NOM is having. It brings me back to yesterday’s events on the NOM California tour, when a Vota Tus Valores/NOM associated man assaulted our videographer, or a few days’ before that, when Thomas tried to physically block Anthony from videotaping, or a few days before that, when Alfonso called us “paparazzi” and tried tot intimidate our videographer, and the events prior to that on the NOM “Summer for Marriage” tour, when Brian Brown tried to have our videographer evicted. Both events are examples of NOM’s bullying that went too far.

And when it comes down to pure messages and the influence adults have, tell me, what is the difference between this:

You better not grow up to be one of those sissy queers. That just ain’t right. It’s a sin against nature. God intended a man to love a woman and be fruitful and multiply.

and this:

In a simple biological framework abstracted from all religion and morality, homosexuality is like infertility. It is a sexual disability preventing certain individuals from participating in the normal reproductive patterns of the human species.

Or this:

No, son, this is a choice you’re making. You just haven’t found the right girl yet and so you’re trying to love a man. Well, it won’t work. You can choose to be different, and this summer I’m sending you to a camp to make sure you get fixed.

and this:

To me, it’s just even more basic. Maybe you can change your desires and maybe you can’t, but you can always control your behavior… Behavior has to be subject to moral critique and reflection.

The first statements in each example are statements made every single day by the adults who influence children around them to bully LGBT kids.

The second statements are from NOM’s own Maggie Gallagher.

The only difference between the two is that Maggie uses big words.

Yesterday, I charged that NOM is no different than the bullies who harassed me or harassed those poor kids or anyone else across America.

Today, I say they’re no different than the adults in their lives, either.

As I noted on Monday’s episode of “The Dylan Ratigan Show,” in these recent cases it is alleged that the students and their families sought help from various school officials with limited and disappointing results. But I have a hard time believing that if these kids had been bullied for their race, not for their sexual identities, that the adults tasked to protect them would not have reacted differently, or at the very least would have reacted at all.

Which makes me think that the kids doing the bullying are not really the ones at fault. They are simply taking their cues from adults. And the message they are receiving is that today in 2010 it may not be okay to call someone the N-word on the playground, but it is okay to call someone the F-word.

Ten years ago Matthew Shepard’s death became a rallying cry for college students of my generation. Many of us assumed (naively, we now know) that the kind of blatant, violent homophobia Matthew suffered would be a thing of the past in the near future. In the last decade our country has advanced significantly on the issue of gay rights, with a majority of Americans now supporting a variety of measures for gays and lesbians that they didn’t just a few years ago. We also have more openly gay public figures and elected officials than we ever have. But the deaths of Asher, Billy, Seth, Tyler and Raymond show that we still have work to do.

We need more adults willing to display the kind of courage that my mother’s principal did all of those years ago, when he stood up for someone because it was the right thing to do, not because it was the popular or politically correct thing to do. Because until we as adults confront homophobia head on, our kids are going to continue to victimize other kids and think it’s okay and that they have our blessing to do so.

80 Comments

  • 1. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 5, 2010 at 3:16 am

    cribin'

  • 2. Ann S.  |  October 5, 2010 at 3:19 am

    scree-ibin'

  • 3. Kathleen  |  October 5, 2010 at 3:21 am

    subscribing

  • 4. Kathleen  |  October 5, 2010 at 3:23 am

    Who here is on NOM's email list?

  • 5. Alan E.  |  October 5, 2010 at 3:30 am

    More please!

  • 6. Bill  |  October 5, 2010 at 3:32 am

    Interesting article here:

    Minnesota Family Council (you can tell they are anti-gay by their use of the word 'family') is now blaming GAY PEOPLE for the suicides of the gay children.

    Infuriating!!!!
    http://minnesotaindependent.com/71696/minnesota-f

  • 7. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 5, 2010 at 3:39 am

    New LIberty Counsel Video: Big Victory for Americans & Setback for Homosexual Agenda on Attempted Appeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axIsHO8UvFM

  • 8. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 5, 2010 at 3:42 am

    4th consecutive poll shows majority of Texans support either civil unions or gay marriage

    The 2010 Texas Lyceum poll was released Tuesday, and for the second straight year, more than half of respondents said they support some form of legal relationship status for same-sex couples — whether it be civil unions or marriage.

    According to the poll of 725 adult Texans from Sept. 22-30, 24 percent support civil unions, 28 percent support same-sex marriage, and 40 percent oppose both civil unions and gay marriage. That means a total of 52 percent support some form of relationship recognition, with 8 percent apparently not responding to the question.

    This support for relationship recognition is actually down from the 2009 Lyceum poll, when 57 percent said they supported either marriage or civil unions, and only 36 percent opposed both.

    But it marks the fourth consecutive statewide poll to show that a majority of Texans support either civil unions or marriage.

    More with a graph chart : ): http://www.dallasvoice.com/poll-52-texans-support

  • 9. Anonygrl  |  October 5, 2010 at 3:50 am

    Excellent point Adam. NOM and Maggie are just bullies with dictionaries.

  • 10. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 5, 2010 at 3:59 am

    s

  • 11. Carpool Cookie  |  October 5, 2010 at 4:01 am

    I can't imagine making a life out of supressing and insulting people.

    Maggie et al make it their life's work to encourage people's worst instincts.

  • 12. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  October 5, 2010 at 4:02 am

    I had to stop reading so I could run and vomit.
    I can't begin to comprehend the level of evil needed to spout such horrible things.
    I am just sick

  • 13. Straight Ally #3008  |  October 5, 2010 at 4:07 am

    The only thing worse than making a life out of suppressing and insulting people is making such a living and knowing that public opinion is slowly but surely turning against you. Although, to be fair, Maggie et al. will likely be close to retirement by the time their objectives fail completely – ask me after the November elections if I think I'm being too pessimistic here….

  • 14. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 5, 2010 at 4:12 am

    In the Mormon Church many of us were taught to bully by a certain adult who now 34 years after this "talk" (speech) made headlines at the World LDS (Mormon) conference this past weekend showing his opinion has not changed.

    Here is the original 1976 talk. It sounds compassionate enough …until he endorses physical violence toward gays on page 5. His words has influenced all the adults in my life to encourage me to avoid homosexuality at all costs. I'm not anyone's judge, however, I will say my life is scarred by this endorsement of bullying.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/38707298/To-Young-Men-O

  • 15. Bill  |  October 5, 2010 at 4:13 am

    I've always thought the same thing…

    And I would rather endure a million years of their abuse as a gay citizen rather than be counted amongst those who would bring millions of gay children into this world only to abuse, dehumanize and brutalize them.

    Nope. Not for me. I'll take what they dish out knowing that I am on the side of what is right and what is just.

  • 16. Sagesse  |  October 5, 2010 at 4:16 am

    Protect the children indeed. Hypocrites.

  • 17. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 5, 2010 at 4:27 am

    The article knocked the wind out of me :( We have a ways to go p8tt FAMILY COUNCIL! (NOT to be confused with other family councils!!!!)

  • 18. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 5, 2010 at 4:29 am

    Circuit Blasts Judge for Gay Stereotyping

    An immigration judge relied on "impermissible stereotypes about gay people" in discounting the testimony of a Serbian asylum seeker who, according to the judge, "bears no effeminate traits," the 11th Circuit ruled.
    In denying Mladen Zeljko Todorovic's petition for U.S. asylum, the immigration judge said Todorovic "does not appear to be overtly gay … since he bears no effeminate traits or any other trait that would mark him as a homosexual."
    The judge later reiterated that "it is clear that this gentleman is not overtly homosexual and there is no reason he would be immediately recognized as such."
    The Atlanta-based federal appeals court said the judge's credibility determination and findings "were impermissibly influenced by stereotypes about homosexuals."
    Although judges can consider a person's demeanor in deciding if his testimony is credible, the credibility determination must ultimately "rest on substantial evidence, rather than on conjecture or speculation," Judge Stanley Marcus wrote.
    "One clearly impermissible form of conjecture and speculation, sometimes disguised as a 'demeanor' determination, is the use of stereotypes as a substitute for evidence," Marcus added.
    In Todorovic's case, the immigration judge "relied on impermissible stereotypes about gay people as a substitute for substantial evidence," the appeals court ruled.
    Todorovic claimed that he had been repeatedly harassed by his high-school classmates, raped by soldiers and at least one commanding officer in the Serbian army, and beaten unconscious by an anti-gay mob….

    …The 11th Circuit ordered immigration authorities to hold a new factual hearing on Todorovic's case — one that's "free of any impermissible stereotyping or ungrounded assumptions about how gay men are supposed to look or act."

    Full Article: http://tinyurl.com/2ddbr87

  • 19. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 5, 2010 at 4:34 am

    Exposing this sort of DISCRIMINATION (Hi to SG wherever you are!) is one of the VERY BEST uses of the Internet. Thank you LLB for a flow of information!

  • 20. adambink  |  October 5, 2010 at 4:38 am

    That second sentence wins the award for best sentence of the week.

  • 21. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 5, 2010 at 4:39 am

    Westboro and NOM tied for supporters:

    Police: No arrests made at demonstration, counter rally in Hagerstown

    Eight members of Westboro Baptist Church, including two children, and about 175 counterprotesters rallied outside North Hagerstown High School, where separate demonstrations began at 8:15 a.m. Tuesday as scheduled.

    Members of the Kansas-based church began leaving at about 8:45 a.m., the scheduled end of their demonstration. After that, counterdemonstrators wound down their rally.

    The two sides remained separated throughout the rallies and no arrests were made, police said.

    Before they began their protest, members of the Westboro Baptist Church, known for anti-homosexual protests nationwide, sang a parody of the U.S. Army “Caisson” song. The parody dealt with soldiers being killed by IEDs in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Those participating in the counter rally held signs and one person was blowing an airhorn. The counterprotesters also had a big plastic container full of small American flags, which were being distributed to anyone who wanted one. Some were wearing American flag bandanas.

    The church members’ signs contained anti-gay slurs. The counter protesters signs said such things as “Love is Love” and “Support Gay Pride.” Other signs were in support of the military.

    More: http://www.herald-mail.com/?cmd=displaystory&…

  • 22. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 5, 2010 at 4:57 am

    same man….different era…..same attitude.
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/50404210-78/chu

  • 23. Carpool Cookie  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:01 am

    It really makes you want to adopt a child and treat it nicely, no matter what it's like.

    I think that's why gays, as a group, make good parents.

  • 24. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:03 am

    EXACTLY CC!

  • 25. Carpool Cookie  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:07 am

    "The counter protesters signs said such things as “Love is Love” and “Support Gay Pride.” Other signs were in support of the military. "

    Hmmmm…..interesting that the Westboro Baptist Church has succeeded in bringing together gay/gay friendly crowds and military supporters!

    Thanks : ) We needed that

  • 26. Dave P.  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:07 am

    I am. Although I can't say I actually read much of that horrible stuff. Why do you ask?

  • 27. Ronnie  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:14 am

    wow…"bears no effeminate traits,”……facepalms….. : / …Ronnie

  • 28. Kathleen  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:14 am

    Are you on facebook? Can you send me PM?

  • 29. Dave P.  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:16 am

    Yes, I wish the Westboro Baptist "church" were even more active and getting even more mainstream press. They do a good job of moving people who are in the middle to our side. And they do a great job of shooting NOM in the foot.

  • 30. Ronnie  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:17 am

    New PSA for Marriage Equality from Mayor Michael Bloomburg of NYC….<3…Ronnie:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgMYjhO4wK4&fe

  • 31. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:18 am

    funny but not funny…me and my hubby get criticized by straight and gay for not being "gay enough" :/

  • 32. Anonygrl  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:22 am

    Wow. That is just a no win situation. Some people get it for being TOO gay, some for not gay enough?

    This world is a screwy place.

  • 33. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:24 am

    Sadly this even happens within our own community. One day we won't be judged, or judge others, by their looks.

  • 34. Rhie  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:28 am

    Not evil. Blindness and submission to a religious figure or teachings. The scary part is that people don't need to be evil to do evil things. They simply have to follow the instructions of an evil person or teachings they trust. There were some very interesting experiments about this after WWII.

    There are STILL people who think that Matthew Shepard wasn't killed because he was gay, that it was just a robbery gone wrong.

  • 35. Kevin S.  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:30 am

    Not that there's any credibility in calling homosexuality a sexual disability, but it's worth noting that the sexual disability Maggie links it to, infertility, is not considered a barrier to marriage, even by those lunatics. More hypocrisy!

  • 36. Kevin S.  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:33 am

    Enjoyed the PSA, but I do find it ironic that they set an equality PSA to a song in which Jay-Z repeated drops the N-bomb, a word which has a history steeped in inequality.

  • 37. Rhie  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:36 am

    That was near where I grew up. I'd be holding a sign in support of gays and a sign in support of the troops.

  • 38. Ronnie  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:40 am

    I guess its ok…Jay-Z & Alicia Keys support Equality…I don't have an issue w/the "N" word in the context its being used….if it was being used (i.e…..the "er" version) the derogatory way then it would be an issue…. <3…Ronnie

  • 39. Ronnie  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:43 am

    A video message from Chris Colfer (Kurt from Glee) via the Trevor Project……<3…Ronnie:

    "I know what it's like to be bullied and teased every single day, and I know that it may seem like there is no chance of happiness left," ………"But I promise you, there is a world full of acceptance and love just waiting for you to find it. So please, before you take a drastic action that could be your last, call the Trevor Project."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RKmnAJ3ZWM&fe

  • 40. Ronnie  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:44 am

    Gay Cop & Marine both say…"It Get's Better"….<3…Ronnie:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC-ZnayVEX0&fe

  • 41. paul  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:48 am

    I just don't get how someone with as obvious a "disability" as Maggie can't see the similiarity between her "disability" and ours. If you substitute "morbid obesity" for "homosexuality", her twisted logic still applies. And in her second statement where she uses the term "behavior" the same thing applies.
    Of course I don't subscribe to either of her ignorant theories, and I feel guilty for my political incorrectness, but the fact that she's in the same boat as the rest of us in her own way makes this relevant enough to mention.
    We're all unique…she would call is "disabled"…I call it unique…but who doesn't have a "uniqueness" about them in this day & age? Hurrah for "uniqueness" !!

  • 42. Ronnie  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:48 am

    From MTV News…Neil Patrick Harris says…"It Get's Better"….<3…Ronnie:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Y52kD0G2c

  • 43. Ronnie  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:49 am

    Davey Wavey & Dan both say…"It Get's Better"….<3….Ronnie:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhmL1KFz3Vc

  • 44. Anonygrl  |  October 5, 2010 at 5:56 am

    She would probably point out that there is no passage in the bible that says being overweight is an abomination. God never smote an entire town because they were fat. And fat is not unnatural.

    I don't think she would go so far as to mention the word "choice" in this particular discussion…

  • 45. Bill  |  October 5, 2010 at 6:02 am

    Wow.

    I read the entire thing.

    And what I am left with is this:

    If religious people would treat violence with the same disdain they treat human sexuality, we would ALL be living in a FAR different world, no?

  • 46. Joel  |  October 5, 2010 at 6:04 am

    @LLB,
    Sadly, I think you are mistaken there, at least for the next century or so. We are, after all, human beings. I remember when I was growing up in the late 60s and early 70s that we were saying the same things: "when OUR generation is running the country, there won't be any more discrimination, people won't be judged on their appearance, people won't worry about what other people do in the privacy of their own homes, yada yada yada". Well, my generation IS running the country now, and guess what? People are STILL judging others by their appearance and what they do in private, people are STILL trying to pass laws to exclude citizens from rights, and marijuana is STILL illegal.

    Was it Kurt Vonnegutt who said that "The scariest thing is to wake up and realize that your graduating class is running the country?"

  • 47. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 5, 2010 at 6:05 am

    thx for reading Bill… "disdain they treat human sexuality…" that is what it comes down to for extremist Christians… Morality and sex.

  • 48. Dave P.  |  October 5, 2010 at 6:05 am

    Sorry, I'm still not facebooked. You can email me at davep2 at sbcglobal dot net.

  • 49. Ronnie  |  October 5, 2010 at 6:07 am

    Survey: Majority of Americans believe committed gay couples should receive equal workplace benefits as heterosexual married couples
    News release from OutNewsWire:

    SAN FRANCISCO, CA, WASHINGTON, DC and NEW YORK, NY– October 4, 2010

    "According to the 2010 Out & Equal Workplace Survey, nearly 8 of 10 or 78% of heterosexual adults agree that how an employee performs at his or her job should be the standard for judging an employee, not their sexual orientation. Also, 3 out of 5 or 62% of heterosexual adults agree that regardless of their sexual orientation, all employees are entitled to equal benefits on the job, such as health insurance for their partners or spouses."

    more results, scribd & links found here:
    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/gaysouthflorida/20

    (me) sooooooo….Pass the Employment Non-Discrimination Act……..NOW!!!!!!!!!…..<3…Ronnie

  • 50. Joel  |  October 5, 2010 at 6:07 am

    But glutton is one of the "seven deadly sins" is it not? And I don't think Maggie's obesity is due to any pathology, I just think she eats too damned much!

  • 51. Bill  |  October 5, 2010 at 6:08 am

    Isn't one of the 7 Deadly Sins called gluttony?

  • 52. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 5, 2010 at 6:09 am

    comment that impressed me from another website….I would have been so offended by this comment in the past…now I find it strickingly accurate!

    need to learn how to italisize….quotes will have to do… (any Kathleen I know? I wonder…hmmmmm…)

    " Kathleen says:
    October 5, 2010 at 10:48 am
    Listen. When BKP sincerely apologizes for his comments in the past about it being ok to beat up a homosexual, we can start taking this evil little dictator a little more seriously. He is full of hate and rage, and the need for absolute control (I know someone on the inside), THAT is his real personality. He’s not a kind man. He’s quite rotten, actually. You’d think at the end of your life you’d mellow a little bit. This guy has gone a little psycho with his need for power. I mean, how enraged must he really be at this point to be “this close” to being the prophet and knowing he’s never going to get there, because he’s dying. He’s mad as hell about it, and he needed to say one last powerful thing, that will have power over the masses, for another couple of decades…because most of the sheep will obey."

  • 53. Kate  |  October 5, 2010 at 6:11 am

    Definitely a great post, but I don't think it's "our" Kathleen — not her writing style.

  • 54. Kevin S.  |  October 5, 2010 at 6:15 am

    No, I like the song and everything, just found it ironic.

  • 55. Anonygrl  |  October 5, 2010 at 6:21 am

    Maybe. Maybe a medical condition. I have heard she is diabetic, which can make weight loss (while even more helpful) even more difficult.

    Anyway… I really don't want to be defending her… my comment was meant sort of more in the sarcasm realm.

  • 56. JonT  |  October 5, 2010 at 6:27 am

    Please increase inbound packet flows. My ping latency is too low.

  • 57. Bob  |  October 5, 2010 at 7:17 am

    although the Catholic Church was outraged that the scientist who perfected IVF to assist those people was awarded an honor, I think the Nobel Prize????

  • 58. Bob  |  October 5, 2010 at 7:29 am

    I have been waiting to here a marine say it does get better, cause this is kind of questionalbe, in this video, does he say he was a marine, or he is a marine, I'm pretty sure he said he was a marine, otherwise he would be outing himself.

    How can someone active in the military say it does get better, while they are being bullied into silence, ????

    Of course Choi or Witt, could make that statement, cause they've confronted and stood up to the bullying. Choi would be an excellent candidate, if he said it gets better I'd believe him, cause he gave up everything for the fight. I'm wondering if he regrets his stand,

  • 59. Kathleen  |  October 5, 2010 at 7:50 am

    Nope not me. I have a writing style? :)

  • 60. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 5, 2010 at 8:37 am

    Thanks "K's" for double clarification :) Love you both!

  • 61. Jonathan H  |  October 5, 2010 at 8:42 am

    I just figured it was hard to tell NOM from adults who teach kids to bully because the one group is made up of the other.

  • 62. bluprntguy  |  October 5, 2010 at 11:06 am

    Upwards of 80% of Americans think that gays should be able to serve in the military too, but you know how that went down.

    I'm convinced this lack of progress is due to the fact that the poorly populated, undereducated, socially conservative states have so much more representation in the Senate since each state gets two senators. I'm becoming convinced that our founding fathers simply didn't think that one through…

  • 63. Richard A. Walter (s  |  October 5, 2010 at 11:39 am

    The adults who teach their kids to bully others are most assuredly NOMbies, whether they admit it or not. Will try to catch up later.

  • 64. Fresh From Twitter today &hellip  |  October 5, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    […] Adults who teach kids to bully, #NOM, and why it’s hard to tell the two apart http://bit.ly/9zPxdZ […]

  • 65. Elizabeth Oakes  |  October 5, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    The good news is that the majority of the comments call Bigtime-BS on the Minnesota Family Council, and I think the anti-gay forces are realizing that kids are far more accepting and that means the clock is ticking–equality is on the way with the next generation, so they have to teach kids to hate before their elderly dinosaur anti-gay culture dies out. Let's not let them succeed at that, okay?

  • 66. Anonygrl  |  October 5, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    I wouldn't vote for Bloomberg on a BET, but this makes me like him a bit more.

  • 67. Gregory in SLC  |  October 5, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    xo Elizabeth O !

  • 68. Anonygrl  |  October 5, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    I can see how he would say it gets better. It looks like he has found someone to love. That is better.

    It may not be BEST, but it is certainly better… and we obviously still have work to do… but kids need to see that even for adults who are having tough times, it is better, and they have something to look forward to.

  • 69. Elizabeth Oakes  |  October 5, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    The Seven Deadly Sins are not in the Bible, they were cooked up by the Catholics for the back of their "Dante's Circles" cereal box: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

  • 70. Elizabeth Oakes  |  October 5, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Right back atcha Mr. GSLC!

  • 71. Bob  |  October 5, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    I hear ya Anonygirl, he did say he WAS in the marines, right, and not being there means it gets better?

    I agree, having someone to love makes it better, and personally I have been moved by these ads in a way I never thought of before, I have just been taking my marriage and relationship for granted. It brings back memories of how it felt to be alone, and being in relationship does make things much better, loving and being loved is a very enjoyable thing and a reason for living.

    Kids need to see the truth, which is the military is the master of all bullies, I still challenge someone who is active in the military to say how that is better. Kids read the news, and are aware of these things. We need a hero in the military, like Choi, who can say it gets better, but the price sometimes is enormous.

    Look at the consequence of his standing up to bullying, yet he did it. That's the truth, that's real. Adults too stand up to bully's.

    There's different ways of doing it as adults, just move, change your job, there's more options, Choi shows a way that can influence change, by facing the issue and not running.

  • 72. Michael  |  October 5, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    "To me, it’s just even more basic. Maybe you can change your desires and maybe you can’t, but you can always control your behavior… Behavior has to be subject to moral critique and reflection."

    Shrill anti-gay activist Gallagher is absolutely right, she's just not applying her comment to the correct "bahavior." To be more accurate, she should have used this comment as a criticism of homophobia. Many may have the urge to commit homophobia and push young people to suicide, but instead they should learn to control their immoral homophobic behavior. And we (pro-equality Americans) are morally right to criticize this behavior since it results in suicide and death to other Americans.

  • 73. Tigger  |  October 5, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Agreed! I would never want to be one of "them." Talk about behavior that needs changing…

  • 74. Joe  |  October 7, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Sodom and Gomorrah (as well as the other two cities that I do not recall the name of) are a poor argument. Religious scholars still cannot agree on the specific reason they were destroyed. Some say it was purely because of homosexuality, while others (who I think seem more accurate) say that it was because of sexual assault and paganism being so rampant in those cities, and the men demanding to be allowed to rape the angels who came to Lot (to tell him to leave) sealed the deal.

  • 75. Joe  |  October 7, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    NPH is one of my favorite actors, I love it when actors aren't afraid to take indie parts like Dr. Horrible. On a related note I also love Nathan Fillion and Felicia Day.

  • 76. Phil L  |  October 7, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Oh yeah, NPH is awesome!

    It doesn't hurt that he's amazingly hot either ;)

  • 77. Rhie  |  October 7, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Don't forget Pauley Parette and Wil Wheaton and Allison Janney!!

  • 78. JonT  |  October 7, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    @Joe: 'Sodom and Gomorrah (as well as the other two cities that I do not recall the name of) are a poor argument. Religious scholars still cannot agree on the specific reason they were destroyed. Some say it was purely because of homosexuality, while others (who I think seem more accurate) say that it was because of sexual assault and paganism being so rampant in those cities, and the men demanding to be allowed to rape the angels who came to Lot (to tell him to leave) sealed the deal.'

    I mean no offense… but that's just BS. :)

    Who says these cities were destroyed – other than religious texts? Who says that some being decided these cities must die due to some transgression (other than religious texts)?

    Sure the cities do not exist today, but that's true of many cities – your statement assumes that some all-being destroyed these cities for some reason. Cities die – they always have, and will continue to do so – no all-being required.

    A good portion of Haiti was destroyed several months ago… Was that due to some god or other power that didn't agree with their 'lifestyle'? Their race? Their poverty? Their inability to properly dominate their environment?

    I just do not buy 5th century views of the universe – anymore than someone in 3510 will buy into my view and understanding of 'The Universe (TM)' :)

    Peace.

  • 79. Joe  |  October 8, 2010 at 2:53 am

    @JonT: I am obviously speaking from a Christian background that believes what is written in the Bible, so yes, I believe these cities existed, were saturated with evil God hating people, and that they were destroyed because of it.

    You are obviously speaking from a position that does not believe, as is your choice. But I would point out that calling out a persons beliefs as BS is rarely inoffensive.

  • 80. JonT  |  October 8, 2010 at 7:25 am

    'But I would point out that calling out a persons beliefs as BS is rarely inoffensive.'

    Joe, you are absolutely correct. My apologies.

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