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NOM’s Rhode Island strategy: Incoherence

NOM Exposed

Cross-posted at Waking Up Now.

by Rob Tisinai

Christopher Plante, who heads up NOM’s Rhode Island franchise, says:

The National Organization for Marriage- Rhode Island is disappointed that Governor-elect Chafee… refuses to listen to the voice of over 80% of Rhode Islanders who want the right to vote on marriage. It is clear that Governor-elect Chafee intends to put fringe issues and radical politics over saving Rhode Islanders jobs and securing a prosperous future for our State.  NOM – Rhode Island will work with Rhode Islanders to demand their right to vote on marriage, and demand that the Governor-elect sticks to the business of getting Rhode Island back on the right economic track.  We are confident that the majority of Assembly-women and men know there are more important things to deal with and we will support their efforts to push for a referendum. [emphasis added]

Wait — did NOM just call same-sex marriage a fringe issue? Does that mean NOM considers itself a fringe group?

NOM-RI’s blog offers this:

Rhode Island’s recovery from its economic disaster is forecast to lag well behind the rest of the country.  In these dire fiscal conditions Governor-elect Chafee and the new Rhode Island Assembly must focus all of their energy on saving our State’s economy.  Gridlock inducing social experiments such as homosexual-marriage will only bog down our government and take away from the energy and ideas needed to bring Rhode Island and Rhode Islanders back to prosperity.

This is particularly crucial given the economic morass that Rhode Island still faces; this is no time to bog down our State government with an issue that impacts less than 5 percent of the population.

Let me see if I can sum up NOM’s position:

Same-sex marriage is a fringe issue affecting only a tiny fraction of Rhode Island’s population, so instead of having the State Assembly deal with it we’ll open it up for a vote by the entire population of the state, because a state-wide ballot with campaigns and stump speeches and television commercials and millions of dollars in fundraising is the best way to direct energy and ideas away from same-sex marriage and toward creating jobs in Rhode Island.

That’s utterly incoherent.  Given the history of such initiatives, it makes no sense to argue that —

Oh.  Wait.  Did I just mention something about “millions of dollars in fundraising”?

Suddenly NOM’s Rhode Island strategy makes a bunch more sen$e.

115 Comments

  • 1. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 2:36 am

    Since when do we have expectations that NOM will make sense? thank you Chafee! Stay strong! subs…

  • 2. Tasty Salamanders  |  November 25, 2010 at 2:48 am

    Worse on multiple levels is the fact that history has shown that allowing same sex marriage in fact boosts the economy due to an boom in weddings, a fact even brought up at the Prop 8 Trial if I recall correctly.

    Also as Rob pointed out they say if it a fringe issue that effects a tiny portion of the population but they want the entire state to vote on it, however if it only effects a tiny portion of the population then how could it really be considered a "social experiment" or even cause any problems at all.

    Ugh, NOM's "logic" gives me a headache.

  • 3. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 2:51 am

    well said!!

  • 4. Ronnie  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:08 am

    "want the right to vote on marriage."

    (me)So you want a special right to vote on how another couple lives their lives in turn forcing them to lives their personal lives how you demand they do?….yup that is American Freedom right there….NOT!!!!!….Fascists!!!….

    "this is no time to bog down our State government with an issue that impacts less than 5 percent of the population."

    (me) & where did you get that 5% number?…oh that's right you made it up…add your 80% made up number….where is the other 15%?…who are the other 15%?..I guess they don't matter……the point it whether it is 5%, 1%, 100%….LGBT people pay taxes so our protections & rights, according to the constitution, are not supposed to be regarded as less then anybody else's….That is what The National Organization for Malevolence stands for…..heterosexual "Our version of Christianity" Fascist elitism, the theft of LGBT & Heterosexual both religious & non-religious supporters hard earned money through taxation, the violation of everybody's rights who do not bow down to NOM's un-American Theocratic dictatorship…..

    Detritus like NOM did it to the Native Americans, did it to people of color, & did the same to Interracial couples….i.e. you will live your life how I demand you live your life…

    With all do respect NOM , you can take your "disappointment" of not being able to force people to live their lives how you demand they do and shove up the Turkey along with the stuffing BECAUSE YOU ARE FULL OF IT!!!!!

    HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!!!!!……<3…Ronnie

  • 5. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:17 am

    Happy Thanksgiving to you too Ronnie : ) ….ditto to what you said!

  • 6. mackenzie  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:20 am

    Happy Thanksgiving!!!!

  • 7. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:21 am

    u 2 Mackenzie : )

  • 8. Martin the Brit  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:26 am

    I don't want to detract from the seriousness of what NOM is doing but that's the best laugh I've had all day. Just another fine example of their completely transparent, insincere, self serving, rhetorical crap.

  • 9. StraightForEquality  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:26 am

    Yes, happy Thanksgiving everyone!

  • 10. Rev. Will Fisher  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:27 am

    Did I imagine this: a conservative just argued that the government should be MORE involved in centrally directing the economy? Sounds fishy…
    God Bless you all! Happy Thanksgiving!

  • 11. Marlene  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:28 am

    Ronnie — That's because NOM and their fellow travelers have no regard, nor respect for the Constitution — that is until they get the slightest whiff that they believe that *their* rights are being infringed, then they're whining to the courts like a spoiled brat!

    We had the same problem here in Bowling Green, Ohio when we had to fight the powers of darkness, who were under the delusion that their personal religious beliefs somehow trump the 14th Amendment when it came to running their businesses!

  • 12. Sagesse  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:31 am

    Wait a minute. So an organization whose stated purpose and focus and area of interest is to prevent marriage equaltiy is telling the RI legislature what its fiscal and legislative priorities should be?

    Reminds me of an old phrase men used to dismiss woment… "Now don't you worry your pretty little heads about that."

  • 13. Sagesse  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:32 am

    That would be' women'….

  • 14. Kathleen  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:36 am

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone. One of the things I'm very thankful for is this community.

  • 15. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:38 am

    : )

  • 16. Felyx  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:45 am

    Hello all! and Happy Thanksgiving!

    Thom got back from Russia Tuesday night so we celebrated our family and our graces yesterday evening so that Thom could go to Tennessee to be with his sons family for dinner. (We here are eager to hear whether Thom thinks his very young grandson's personal revelation regarding orientation has any merit to it!!!)

    It was a wonderful dinner laid out in three courses on fine Liberty Blue porcelain. Including our Elder, Robert, there was Thom and myself; we had a friend of Robert's, the two neighbor ladies and of course, via Skype from Russia, our very own belovëd Kevyn! He joined us with microphones and webcams participating in the discussion and conversation and thoroughly enjoying the evening (which was far into the morning for him! My poor tired Russian pumpkin!)

    Black Friday is tomorrow. (I believe so named because its potential to get retailers out of the red.) I am considering getting a video camera to record my trip to Russia, my first meeting with Kevyn live and in person (possibly including our first kiss EVER!) I am nervous about being so public but… well what do you guys say?

    Again, blessëd be everyone's gatherings and families in all their many forms! We love you all and wish you all a wonderful Thanksgiving!

    Felyx and Co.

  • 17. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:49 am

    Ditto Dearest Kathleen! (grateful for community)

    I was reading comments from yesterday about Ray's wedding, silk flowers etc. I was pondering about my on imminent wedding (once allowed)…."who would I invite?" My parents would come because they love me….my hubby parents too…maybe some siblings…but all the aforementioned would still have a part of them that thinks me and my hubby are a little "confused".

    ….then me thinks "how about get married in SF?" Where I could invite those who TRULY could embrace us as a legitimate couple…w/out the "icky" feelings that our church people and families feel about us. Thank you P8TT community for embracing me as a person, teaching me better ways, keeping me informed, educating me in legal "stuff", calling me to action and above all– for your love and support (tears).. Love, Gregory

  • 18. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:51 am

    Oh my goodness Felyx and Co! thank you for public expression. I appreciate your posts and wish much happiness and safety on your journey!

  • 19. Bob  |  November 25, 2010 at 3:52 am

    Indeed, HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL, we're ahead of you up north, we ate ourselves full in Oct. hope you all take the time to share and be in community…..

    Do you all do that thing where you all go around the table and everyone says what they are thankful for.

    When times are tough, it's amazing what you can find to be thankful for. This is an exercise I learned from watching Oprah, and it has sustained me through all the years of living with AIDS, and expecially when the day has been really hard, my partner and I force each other to say three things we are grateful for, when we are cuddling up to sleep. Some nights, you'd rather knock your husband on the head than answer, but when you really search, you find the smallest thing, and then another, sometimes I start with I'm grateful for my breath, no matter how small just doing this changes my thoughts and thus my emotions.

    Please everyone find some little thing to be grateful for, cause after the festivies and celebration, we will be back all hands on deck, and win our battles, We have our work cut out, lobbying senators for DADT, I don't think there's much we can do with PROP8 at this time other than watch for the ruling.

    And once those decisions are made we'll know how we need to fight next.

    Eat turkey and be happy, we'll need the strength to soldier on, with the comrades found on this site and the commuity built, thanks to Courage Campaign, let the feast of the Rainbow Tribe begin. woot woot….

  • 20. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 4:06 am

    thank you Bob! very well said: "Some nights, you’d rather knock your husband on the head than answer, but when you really search, you find the smallest thing, and then another, sometimes I start with I’m grateful for my breath, no matter how small just doing this changes my thoughts and thus my emotions"

  • 21. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 4:11 am

    Hey Ronnie…dance song you might enjoy : )
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M9XpeYW4RU

  • 22. dtwirling  |  November 25, 2010 at 4:15 am

    Mods: How about starting a main post where we can talk about what we're thankful for? While the info on RI is useful… considering today and some of the comments already posted, it'd be nice to have a positive space.

    For me? I'm eternally glad I stumbled over Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar books during my formative years. Same-sex relationships were treated no differently from m/f pairings. I'm thankful that was the first exposure I had to the concept.

  • 23. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 25, 2010 at 4:34 am

    Brian Brown is a bit upset about the Southern Poverty Law Center's recent lists.

    Brian Brown Is Ever So Pissed About NOM Being Labeled A Hate Group

    "This is an absurd distraction emanating from a once-great organization’s real mission—with all the actual hate groups out there, how can Southern Poverty Law Center stoop so low? This report is not an attack on NOM but on the majority of Americans who believe that to make a marriage you need a husband and wife. It is also further proof of what NOM has been saying: today’s gay marriage movement is no longer about tolerance, live or let live—it’s about driving out dissenting voices from the public square.

    "Gay marriage now serves as the tip of the spear to a new campaign to demonize and generate hatred against those who adhere to traditional views of sex and marriage. Regular readers of NOM’s work know how we characterize gay people: those who support our vision of marriage, we welcome to join our work. For gay marriage advocates (the majority of whom are not gay) we say: we think you are wrong, and we will fight for our right to vote for marriage in the public square." – NOM president Brian Brown.

    More: http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2010/11/brian-brown-

  • 24. dtwirling  |  November 25, 2010 at 4:34 am

    http://www.youtube.com/v/4a4MR8oI_B8?version=3

    This "It Gets Better" video from over 30+ folks at Pixar made the wife and I tear up.

  • 25. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 25, 2010 at 4:40 am

    Happy Thanksgiving to all. Hope your bellies get as full as all of your wonderful hearts.

  • 26. Linda  |  November 25, 2010 at 4:42 am

    I love the rationale…"Since this only affects 5% of the population, let's do a majority vote on it!"

    And all I have to say to BB is, "Oh, shut up!" :-)

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

  • 27. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 4:53 am

    ((HUGS)) LLB!

  • 28. Straight Ally #3008  |  November 25, 2010 at 5:02 am

    Uh oh….they're using the Chewbacca defense!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xywqv1cDH8

  • 29. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 25, 2010 at 5:05 am

    (((((BIG HUGS))))) back Gregory! Stay bundled and warm.

  • 30. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 5:10 am

    thank you for Pixar video…much tears here!

  • 31. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 5:13 am

    no wonder the Pixar movie have so much "heart":

    Toy Story 1-3, Up, Wall E, Ratatouille, Cars 1&2, The Incredibles , Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc, A Bug's Life

    (I would imagine Brian Brown's family has enjoyed some of these movies too…….)

  • 32. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 5:14 am

    LOL!

  • 33. Sagesse  |  November 25, 2010 at 5:30 am

    Hey, they acknowledge that we exist: "For gay marriage advocates (the majority of whom are not gay) we say: we think you are wrong…"

    Didn't put a number on how many of us there are, but….

  • 34. Ed Cortes  |  November 25, 2010 at 5:30 am

    I'm thankful that Kamala Harris and Jerry McNerny won their races here in CA, along with all the people here, most of whom I've never met (except for Sheryl, and the unflappable bus followers in Concord). I hope we all have a lot more to be thankful for in the coming months!

  • 35. Martin the Brit  |  November 25, 2010 at 5:52 am

    Hey, I thought the Prop 8 trial hadn't been televised! O_O

  • 36. DaveP  |  November 25, 2010 at 5:55 am

    Hi Felyx,

    First and foremost, we would not want you guys to do anything that could put you in any risk of harm. It's all well and good for us to cheer you on and encourage some kind of activism, but please stay safe. Having said that, anything you guys want to do that will allow us to share in your joy would be a wonderful gift to all of us. links to videos from your trip would be great!

  • 37. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 25, 2010 at 5:58 am

    Hip Hip HOOOOORRRAAYYY for Kamala et al!

  • 38. Paul in Minneapolis  |  November 25, 2010 at 6:19 am

    So NOM wants the people of Rhode Island to vote — but where are NOM's calls for the people of Illinois to vote on civil unions?

    I just skimmed through the article a couple of posts back; amazingly, nowhere could I find any mention of NOM demanding a vote for Illinois citizens. And the topic is rather conspicuous by its absence from NOM's website. Now, why could these things be? Maybe … that a large majority of Illinois voters approves of same-sex marriage and/or civil unions?

    This is the proof of my long-running prediction that NOM will cease demanding votes as soon as it realizes the majority is against NOM's position. Which in turn is proof that NOM doesn't really care about what a majority of voters wants. As we all know, NOM cares only about getting its way. What a stinking pile of hypocrites!

    Why did I just think "Brian Brown" and "it's turkey day" in the same thought?

    Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

  • 39. Ann S.  |  November 25, 2010 at 6:41 am

    Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! Turkey or tofurky, your choice, cranberry sauce, stuffing, freshly made bread, mashed potatoes and gravy all 'round!

  • 40. Sagesse  |  November 25, 2010 at 7:17 am

    "Why did I just think “Brian Brown” and “it’s turkey day” in the same thought?"

    :). Wishing you all a Happy Thanksgiving!

  • 41. Sagesse  |  November 25, 2010 at 7:19 am

    I'm not where I can look it up, but I think IL already has a marriage amendment. It just doesn't have the 'marriage or almost-marriage' wording that would sweep in civil unions as well.

  • 42. Richard A. Jernigan  |  November 25, 2010 at 7:36 am

    This is just another way for NOM to keep the money rolling in from their sheeple. If the people I know from Rhode Island are any indication, Rhode Islanders have much more sense.

  • 43. Don in Texas  |  November 25, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Hope you are having a wonderful Thanksgiving!

    The future is looking very bright for us: imminent repeal of DADT, decision on Proposition 8 in our favor, Judge Leighton's decision sustained in the Margaret Witt case, sustaining of DOMA's unconstitutionality.

    2011 will see much bigotry against gays and lesbians fall by the wayside and next Thanksgiving we will have a cornucopia of justice to celebrate!!

  • 44. Michelle Evans  |  November 25, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Yes, Brian and turkeys do seem to go together, hand-in-feather. But then I don't want to say anything bad about turkeys! And on Friday, Cherie and I will celebrate the 29th anniversary of the day we met!!

    Unfortunately we also have another anniversary now as it will be one year since a transgender friend of mine committed suicide because she could no longer take the hatred, fear, and intolerance of people like Brian.

    Louis, Maggie, and Brian, Christine's blood is on your hands…

  • 45. DaveP  |  November 25, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Hee hee. Well Brian, let me once again give you some advice I once heard from a very wise and fabulously flamboyant friend:

    Darling, if you don't like the things people are saying about you, stop doing the things they are talking about!

    I hope this news from the Southern Poverty Law Center just ruined Brian's Thanksgiving.

  • 46. truthspew  |  November 25, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Interestingly Brown and Plante did the dog and pony show on Buddy Cianci's show on WPRO.

    The majority of callers were very supportive of marriage equality. The exceptions were interesting too as you could tell when they opened their mouths how ignorant they were. One caller was not only homophobic but openly racist.

    It was amusing hearing Brown and Plante try to downplay that one.

    It's going to happen in RI like it or not.

  • 47. Felyx  |  November 25, 2010 at 11:37 am

    For gay marriage advocates (the majority of whom are not gay)…

    Being gay does not preclude one from having non-gay friends and supporters.

    (Here I am again, stating the obvious…)

  • 48. Chris From CO  |  November 25, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Happy Thanksgiving I don't post as often as most of you but every day I follow you, no joke my partner knows some of your names because of me, and I read from you and learn so much, thank you all for what you give me.

  • 49. Paul in Minneapolis  |  November 25, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Illinois, like Minnesota, bans same-sex marriage by statute only. There is no constitutional amendment that prohibits same-sex marriage in Illinois. The Illinois legislature will be well within its state constitutional authority to establish either civil unions or marriage equality for same-sex couples.

  • 50. Sagesse  |  November 25, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    “For gay marriage advocates (the majority of whom are not gay) we say: we think you are wrong…”

    This phrase has been bothering me ever since I first read it. It is way to close to the truth for BB. We may be wrong, but we have the same right to vote. In California, 7 million people voted on the side of 'right; 6.8 million people voted 'wrong'.

  • 51. Sagesse  |  November 25, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Thank you. So Illinois does not count as one of the 31 states where 'the people voted'?

  • 52. Paul in Minneapolis  |  November 25, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    No, it does not. And if its silence is any indication, NOM wants to keep it that way precisely because it fears the outcome.

    Mark my words, some day there will be a popular vote FOR civil unions or marriage equality. That will be a huge slap in the balls to NOM and its ilk — and seriously undercut their "the people should vote" argument. I eagerly await that day, even while detesting the very concept of putting people's rights up for a popular vote.

  • 53. Straight Ally #3008  |  November 25, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    And the sooner the better – it will help soothe the fact that Maine is SOL for four years.

  • 54. Kathleen  |  November 25, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Wonderful to hear from you Chris. I hope you've had a wonderful Thanksgiving.

  • 55. Bob  |  November 25, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    I just learned that Nov 25th is the International Day of working to end violence against women. Interesting article by Hilllory Clinton in our local Vancouver Sun paper.

  • 56. Rhie  |  November 25, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    There is no right to vote on marriage. MARRIAGE is the right.

    The End.

  • 57. Mike  |  November 25, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    TAKE THESE FOLKS SERIOUSLY

    The Tea Party (…NOM being part of that "crazy movement") beat the crap out of us in this Nov Elections.

    You can kiss goodbye to any pro-LGBT laws being passed.
    And if they go to the polls…..same thing….they will beat us….again and again…..until we wake up.

    I voted….in fact, I made sure my absentee ballot made it in time….I paid about 20 dollars to DHL the ballot to my County Election Office.
    (I live in exile with my foreign born partner, waiting – maybe dreaming- that UAFA or some type of immigration reform, will allow us to return to the US……what a cruel country I am a citizen of….pay my taxes, yet, can't partake of the same benefits as everyone else)

    I called all my USA LGBTs friends….beg and beg for them to vote……
    Honestly…..I was lucky if 3 of them went (out of 32 calls and e-mails)….THE EXCUSES for not voting were amazing…from the "dog ate my ballot"…..to "I was partying over the weekend, and need my sleep".

    Needless to say…..my State (Florida)….went all Republican….with some crazy politicians…..all Tea "Baggers".

    Are we, as a community, SERIOUS to affirm our rights ?

    Or are the "Moral Majority" correct when they say that all we care is about sex, sex, sex, alcohol, smoking, drugs, bars and parades !!! (one look at those idiotic magazines at the bars are a good indication of where we are heading….., and yes, there are publications like Advocate and Washington Blade…..but for everyone of those, we have a 1,000 HotSpots, Manhunt, Adam4Adam, ect, ect,ect)

    Sorry….I am just pissed

  • 58. grod  |  November 25, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    Rhie: Presumably the three judges in the Prop 8 Appeal, whose assignment will be known on the 29th if memory serves me well, fully agree. But a better outcome would be that the proponents do not have standing. Is Monday also the day that the judges will rule on any amendment to the ‘time allocation of business’?

  • 59. anonygrl  |  November 26, 2010 at 12:26 am

    Congratulations on your happy anniversary, and my sympathy for your sad one.

    I hope you let the joy of the day outweigh the sadness, and have a wonderful anniversary!

    Much love to you both!

  • 60. anonygrl  |  November 26, 2010 at 12:27 am

    Well, for heavens sake, speak up! :)

    Thanks for posting, glad you like us, and here is a cookie.

  • 61. Ronnie  |  November 26, 2010 at 2:01 am

    BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Is he serious?

    TONY PERKINS FREAKS OVER DESIGNATION OF FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL AS A 'HATE GROUP', DEMANDS APOLOGY http://www.towleroad.com/2010/11/tony-perkins-fre

    Tony Perkins of the FRC reacted to his group's designation by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a "hate group" with a statement on Wednesday claiming they are the victims of a smear campaign and demanding an apology.

    (me) no, really?…..

    "Family Research Council has, for nearly 30 years, advanced faith, family, and freedom in public discourse. We do so with civility and compassion. "

    (me)….you mean faiths that only bow down to your theology?……you mean family that only conforms to your delusional unrealistic mold?…..you me freedom to do, say, act,& live as you demand?….& sorry Tony, but you have shown nothing but hate & un-American dictatorship of anybody who doesn't live their lives how you demand they do…..calling LGBT people, as well as our Heterosexual supports of all faiths, derogatory names & comparisons without provocation is not civility or compassion……..

    "The Left is losing the debate over ideas and the direction of public policy so all that is left for them is character assassination."

    (me) really? because the polls you use to rely on in the past say differently, FOOL!……& don't be a hypochristian Tony…..all your side ever does is spout out derogatory, offensive, insulting, demonizing (how many more "D"s can we get in there?….disrespectful, demeaning, degrading, dehumanizing) propagated character assassinations about LGBT people…..GET OVER YOURSELF!!!…..

    "It's a sad day in America when we can not, with integrity, have a legitimate discussion over policy issues that are being considered by Congress, legislatures, and the courts without resorting to juvenile tactics of name calling. "

    (me) practice what you preach, Tony………

    "Family Research Council will continue to champion marriage and family as the foundation of our society and will not acquiesce to those seeking to silence the Judeo-Christian views held by millions of Americans. We call on the Southern Poverty Law Center to apologize for this slanderous attack and attempted character assassination."

    (me) No, the "Family" Ruination/Restriction Council will continue to destroy marriage, family, & the foundation of our society which is American Freedom from theocratic dictatorship & the majority's oppression over the minority…

    Dear Tony we, LGBT & Straight people of all faiths, non-religious, both liberal & conservative, all genders, creeds, nationalities, & races will NOT acquiesce to you a those seeking to silence American Freedom rightfully owned by ALL Americans, not just those who bow down to your Fascist version of Judeo-"Christian" views……You think you deserve an apology?…..HA!!!!…don't hold your breath.

    <3…Ronnie

  • 62. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  November 26, 2010 at 2:57 am

    Big Hugs Mike….you are NOT alone in how you feel buddy

    Mark M.

  • 63. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  November 26, 2010 at 3:04 am

    LOL

  • 64. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  November 26, 2010 at 3:10 am

    There already has been Paul. Ref 71 here in Washington State was voted in by popular vote last Nov 2009….giving all Domestic Partners 'Everything BUT Marriage" as it were.
    First time ever in this country that the people stood up for what is right and just……still not marriage equality true, but a damn bit closer than many places.
    I was proud of my fellow Washtonians for doing the right.

  • 65. Kathleen  |  November 26, 2010 at 3:24 am

    UPDATE (Perry):
    From the Public Information Office of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

    Notice to Media and Public Regarding Oral Arguments in Perry v. Schwarzenegger. Remote viewing locations, gaining access to courtrooms, use of electronic devices in courtroom, wi-fi availability, etc. http://www.scribd.com/doc/44082781

  • 66. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 26, 2010 at 3:34 am

    Thank you Mike for efforts to vote…and get others affected to vote… Many of us here are doing the same…frustrating indeed! I could be one of those exiled at any moment.

  • 67. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 26, 2010 at 3:40 am

    tx for the tofurky : )

  • 68. Straight Ally #3008  |  November 26, 2010 at 3:59 am

    "Hypochristian," another great Ronnie word! I know it's a portmanteau incorporating "hypocrite," but I also like the possible second meaning of "hypo-," something beneath Christianity.

  • 69. Straight Ally #3008  |  November 26, 2010 at 4:04 am

    I don't blame you at all, Mike. As laughable as NOM's bus tour was (heck, as laughable as their arguments are) hey're still very good at PR campaigns. Plus, NOM is propped up by religious organizations like the FRC. The public has to keep getting to know LGBT people and what they face – it's working for the younger generation, but NOM will fight the inevitable until the last penny has been milked from the last rube.

  • 70. Leo  |  November 26, 2010 at 4:10 am

    To listen to Tony Perkins and Brian Brown, you would think that FRC was placed on the list because of its opposition to same-sex marriage. They don't mention FRC's support for criminalization of homosexuality, something that neither "the good people of Iowa" nor the majority of Americans support.

  • 71. Ed  |  November 26, 2010 at 4:23 am

    It just seems to me that with all the allowance to viewing (and learning) the proceedings of this trial, that it will be a favorable outcome for us. So far, the other side hasn't fought this round being televised. I also noticed the remote viewing places, some of which are outside of CA (Boston, Brooklyn, Seattle) which means this is gonna be huge….Anyone else feel pretty confident?

  • 72. Kathleen  |  November 26, 2010 at 4:29 am

    I feel pretty good about our chances of a favorable outcome, but not because it will be widely viewed. Remember, this is just oral arguments – not a trial. As far as the Proponents of Prop 8 not fighting this, I don't know what objection they could put forth. It's only their attorneys who will be there.

  • 73. Ed  |  November 26, 2010 at 4:32 am

    Speaking of that…..I really would not want to be in Chris Cooper's shoes right about now……Can u imagine what argument he could possibly put forth?

  • 74. Justin  |  November 26, 2010 at 4:39 am

    Marriage equality should never be put up for a vote, but I would just LOVE to see what happened if Rhode Island voted in favor of it. NOM's hemming and hawing would be absolutely priceless.

  • 75. Ed  |  November 26, 2010 at 4:44 am

    Bryan Brown is already on record saying that he favors amending the US Constitution banning SSM……I've read it but don't remember where…..

  • 76. Kathleen  |  November 26, 2010 at 4:45 am

    UDPATE (Perry)
    Clerk Order – Plaintiffs' request for reallocation of time is GRANTED in part and DENIED in part. http://www.scribd.com/doc/44089594

  • 77. Kathleen  |  November 26, 2010 at 4:46 am

    Uhhh, "UPDATE" (although I like the word udpate – we'll have to find a use for it)

  • 78. Justin  |  November 26, 2010 at 5:02 am

    Of course he is. He's in favor of stopping equality by any means necessary. The "let the people vote" ploy is so utterly transparent that it's shameful. NOM couldn't care less about what the people want.

  • 79. Sagesse  |  November 26, 2010 at 5:10 am

    Damage control. I predict we will see FRC distance itself from Peter Sprigg and its other associates who express anti-gay views.

    I wonder if Perkins will stop sounding off on DADT. It doesn't seem to have much to do with 'families'; on the other hand, he is also supporting the chaplains who object to repeal.

  • 80. Sagesse  |  November 26, 2010 at 5:14 am

    “For gay marriage advocates (the majority of whom are not gay) we say: we think you are wrong…”

    Blinding flash of the obvious. Brian is doing damage control. Their position is not anti-gay, it's anti-all of us straight allies who are wrong, too.

  • 81. anonygrl  |  November 26, 2010 at 5:42 am

    Udpate sounds to me like a word that should mean "throw up in your mouth a little". To use it in a sentence, I would recommend the following.

    "Upon realizing that they were going to lose the case, and lose big time, the Prop 8 Proponents' reaction to the update was to udpate, which brought expressions of concern for them from absolutely no one."

  • 82. Kathleen  |  November 26, 2010 at 5:52 am

    +100

  • 83. Michelle Evans  |  November 26, 2010 at 5:53 am

    You have a right to be pissed. I continue to be amazed at the low voter turnout numbers in every election. And then the people who don't vote are out there complaining about how things turn out. I personally find it unbelievable that anyone eligible to vote in America would choose not to do so. I have never missed a vote, no matter how minor the election, since I was old enough to do so.

    Most all the polls from this past election showed that the tea baggers would have lost big time–if the people who could vote would actually have taken the time out of their precious day to have gone to the polls or filled out an absentee ballot. These non-voters gave away our country and our liberties through their apathy.

  • 84. anonygrl  |  November 26, 2010 at 5:56 am

    And if I lived out there, I would attend with BELLS on Gregory! Well, really quiet bells so as not to disturb the ceremony… but you know what I mean.

  • 85. Michelle Evans  |  November 26, 2010 at 6:01 am

    Anonygrl, Thank you for your thoughts about our day. Yes, we are trying to have the celebration of our years together outweigh any other thoughts. But a hard thing to do under the circumstances. Christine was an amazing person, so her loss will live with me for a long, long time.

  • 86. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  November 26, 2010 at 6:01 am

    LOL
    That's great!!

  • 87. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 26, 2010 at 6:13 am

    Marriage equality is inevitable.

    I would never rely on any polls done by fringe groups – but they keep attempting to use them as an accurate measure of American citizens.

    According to a recent Gallup poll in May 2010 the majority of Americans, for the first time, stated that Gay Relations were morally acceptable.

    What I do find surprising is that the biggest change in favor of Gay relations (through the last four years) was among men – particularly men under 50 years old.

    This should be the tipping point for us to start fighting harder for our rights.

    I am ready!

    Gallup Poll Results: http://www.gallup.com/poll/135764/americans-accep

  • 88. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 26, 2010 at 6:17 am

    perhaps then it should be spelled udpaté

  • 89. anonygrl  |  November 26, 2010 at 6:32 am

    With their audience getting smaller, fairly soon these organizations are going to have to post poll numbers garnered from asking questions inside their own offices.

    We can soon expect results like these.

    "57% of the people polled in our mailroom think that the people in the mailroom should vote on whether to allow same sex marriage in the mailroom!*"

    "A majority of the second floor feels very strongly that same sex marriage is un-American!**"

    *all four employees polled in the mailroom are male and Catholic, three are over age 55 and one is Catholic and over 65 and was recently married to his husband in a lovely ceremony in the mailroom (which all three others attended, but a scuffle broke out when deciding who was to be the flower girl)

    **all seven of the second floor employees are either Catholic, Mormon or Hindu, two of them are American citizens, four have applied for asylum from Sweden, one is a closeted bus driver, and all seven attended the wedding in the mailroom (six waved tiny American flags throughout the ceremony, the bus driver claimed he had lost his. Everyone enjoyed cake and punch afterwards.).

  • 90. anonygrl  |  November 26, 2010 at 6:34 am

    YES! That is the icing on THAT cake (so to speak)!

  • 91. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 26, 2010 at 6:38 am

    LOL @ Anonygrl!

  • 92. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 26, 2010 at 6:45 am

    On a happy note… (and trust me – this makes ME very happy) Apple has removed the Anti-Gay Manhattan Declaration app from its iPhones.

    Whew…

  • 93. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 26, 2010 at 7:07 am

    ((BIG SMILE))

  • 94. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 26, 2010 at 7:11 am

    LOL!… spitting water on keyboard from laughing reading anonygrl's latest script/story!

  • 95. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  November 26, 2010 at 7:21 am

    Thanks anonygrl…that was the best laugh I've had in days!!

  • 96. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 26, 2010 at 7:32 am

    : ) !!!
    http://sdgln.com/news/2010/11/26/shhhh-apple-quie

  • 97. anonygrl  |  November 26, 2010 at 7:55 am

    Disclaimer on this and all future comments written by Anonygrl:

    "The Author disclaims all responsibility for ruined keyboards, fried lap tops and any other moisture damage caused by spitting at her. Further, she recommends you not eat cookies while reading her work, as she would come pat you on the back if you lived in her house, but she cannot be travelling around the country uncompensated just to administer the Heimlich Maneuver. Stay safe this holiday season, don't drink and… ok, I can't think of a word that means "read" and starts off with a "dr…" but you get what I mean. Thank you."

  • 98. Rhie  |  November 26, 2010 at 8:15 am

    Yup. I was always told that if I didn't vote, I couldn't complain. If I wasn't willing to do the easiest thing to make my voice heard I had absolutely no right to talk about how things were going badly.

    I haven't missed an election since I turned 18 in 2000.

  • 99. fern  |  November 26, 2010 at 10:04 am

    So very Franglais!. this helps my mood.

  • 100. Ann S.  |  November 26, 2010 at 10:07 am

    If SPLC is pissing off Perkins, they must be doing something right.

  • 101. DK  |  November 26, 2010 at 10:16 am

    The 9th circuit has posted a ton of information (including all the amicus briefs, it seems) as this is a "case of interest": http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/content/view.php?pk_i

  • 102. fern  |  November 26, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Does this means that Apple stops people from expressing their anti-gay feelings?
    BTW if I could vote in the U.S. I would have abstained.
    Here in Belgium we have a legal obligation to vote once they took me to court for not voting and told them I did not have to answer a lower court but only to the highest court for mine was a crime not a misdemeanor based on some constitutional article I loved their faces since according to them files I'm a low life residue since then I've been voting again because it is a civic duty.
    La propriété c'est le vol this is what Proudhon wrote and if you think about railways and Vanderbilt his fortune was made with slave labor.
    It's funny but to me low life is government people, your government even appealed the favorable court decision on this lady Witt or something a medic she was.
    As for Ohblahblah he got 12 stitches and they shoulda zipped his mouth shut, scared of the republicans? What about the log cabin republicans?

  • 103. DaveP  |  November 26, 2010 at 10:42 am

    … Anybody have any news about how folks who plan to show up at the court house might be able to view the procedings? I'd like to be there for any public demonstration or celebration that may be planned but I want to be sure I can still watch it.

  • 104. Kathleen  |  November 26, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Precisely!

  • 105. Kathleen  |  November 26, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Other than in the courtroom itself? The SF Center will be hosting a viewing. http://www.sfcenter.org/

  • 106. Kathleen  |  November 26, 2010 at 11:53 am

    BTW, does that mean you'll be there? Would love to meet up! I'll be attending with Ann S – and I think also her brother and BIL – with plans to meet up with Alan E and his husband at some point. …. and anyone else who cares to join us!!

  • 107. DaveP  |  November 26, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Hi Kathleen!

    The Center sounds like a good spot for a viewing party, but I'm still hoping to be at the court house. The only problem with the court house is that there will be very limited seating inside, and the folks outside may not have any way to watch the procedings from there. A tough decision….

  • 108. DaveP  |  November 26, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Wait – at the court house? Or at the Center? OK, I'm whereever you guys are going to be!!! Just let me know & I'd love to see you all there!!

  • 109. Kathleen  |  November 26, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    We'll be at the courthouse. I'm hoping (fingers and toes crossed) that I'll be able to get into the main courtroom. I realize there's little chance, but I'm still hoping. If not, perhaps an overflow courtroom. Do you have a way to reach you? I seem to recall you removed yourself from facebook.

  • 110. Kathleen  |  November 26, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    I just realized – Richard has your contact info, doesn't he? I can get it from him if so.

  • 111. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 27, 2010 at 12:06 am

    DaveP – you can always go to the courthouse, try to get in, but have a backup location in the event it's full.

    I will be watching from here in AZ. Wish I could be there with all of you – but will be in spirit.

  • 112. DaveP  |  November 27, 2010 at 3:53 am

    I don't use Facebook but you guys can email me at davep2 (at) sbcglobal (dot) net. Email me and let's make some plans, OK?

  • 113. Peter  |  November 30, 2010 at 2:40 am

    Thanks Richard! We do. Not to mention that the RI Constitution severely restricts what can and cannot be placed on the ballot as initiatives. Basically the only thing the public person votes on here are bond initiatives. Highway projects, public ed. spending and green space.

    Happy late Thanksgiving to all and a very Happy HoliGays!

  • 114. Richard A. Jernigan  |  November 30, 2010 at 2:53 am

    Thanks, Peter. Trying to get the finishing touches up for Chanukkah. It is coming early this year. The first round of cards has gone out, now to get the next round addressed, and the challahs baked, the banners hung up, and the menorahs ready to light. And I also need to go to my blog and write up our wedding and post the videos there for anyone who is not on Facebook. So much to finish before Sundown on Wednesday!

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