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Live New York Senate marriage equality thread

Marriage equality

By Adam Bink

The Senate is scheduled to convene at 10 AM EST today. Last night, after telling reporters to prepare for a “late night”, Majority Leader Skelos closed down around 11 PM, apologizing to those sitting in the gallery and telling everyone some more bills would be printed and we’d reconvene. He said the marriage issue would be “discussed” after all that.

Thanks to Anonygrl and others from reporting from the statehouse and sharing information. We’ll keep posting important updates from there and elsewhere here. Let’s get it started and hopefully today is the day!

Live feed:

Update 1: Channel 2 News back home reports Sen. Grisanti, a swing Republican, told them he is still an undecided vote.


  • 1. Kate  |  June 24, 2011 at 6:53 am

    I just want to add my cheers of appreciation to Anonygrl and LLB for keeping us so well-informed during this stressful process. Anonygrl, I hope you've taken an little inflatable pillow with you this time.

  • 2. jamestuttle  |  June 24, 2011 at 6:57 am

    Your hard work does not go unnoticed.

  • 3. jamestuttle  |  June 24, 2011 at 6:59 am

    Like I said yesterday; is everyone ready for an action packed day of legislation?

  • 4. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 7:00 am

    Subscribing & sharing…..

    Celebrity chef & NY resident, Mario Batali in Albany on Wednesday to lobby for Marriage Equality…..<3…Ronnie:

    [youtube yqcMkHLK_Sc youtube]

  • 5. Sheryl_Carver  |  June 24, 2011 at 7:14 am

    Being a legislator in NY, & quite possibly every state, appears to be one of the positions where showing up on time is not required. Start time today was supposed to be 10 AM ET; now it's 10:10 ET & apparently the session is not starting, as the live feed is off-line.

    Based on yesterday's reports, I'm guessing there's more closed-door shenanigans taking place. Sigh.

  • 6. RAJ  |  June 24, 2011 at 7:21 am

    Will we be able to see the complete bill soon, religious exemptions included? I've only been able to locate the Assembly version so far.

  • 7. Gates  |  June 24, 2011 at 7:32 am

    Seconded. Anon & LLB, if you ever get down to Mystic, CT, my hubby & I would love to buy you a round of drinks!

  • 8. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 7:41 am

    Hip, Hip, Hooray! for LLB and AnonyGrl!!

    And GO, NY!

  • 9. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 7:59 am

    Sheryl, they consider their closed door conferences to be part of the session… so they technically by their lights DID start on time, with a meeting at 10am. If they want to sit in that meeting till 6pm before deciding to bring the bill to the floor, I am fine with that, as long as the DO decide to bring it.

    But the waiting is deadly, is it not? :)

  • 10. Casey  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:00 am

    I am home from work today with an allergic reaction!! Turned out to be good timing, as I am under doctor's orders to relax – so I have all day to watch and wait with you fine people. Don't know how relaxing it'll be if comes to the floor, though. I can't believe I have to say "if". Swollen fingers crossed :)

  • 11. MFargo  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:01 am

    Can't thank her (and all of you) enough.

  • 12. asiesamigo  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:01 am

    It's not too late. You can still contact important Senators to let them know your feelings. Here is an easy way to e-mail these senators by using the form provided by NOM, but you have the re-write their letter. Keep it short and to the point to have a better chance of being read.….

    Erase the letter NOM wrote for you and use your own words.

    Here is an example for a letter, but please feel free to write what you wish.


    I am writing to urge you to allow the vote on the same-sex marriage bill to procede to the Senate floor.

    Marriage is one of the central institutions of our society, and it belongs to all New Yorkers. All couples in New York deserve the right and opportunity to marry. I urge you to permit the Senate to vote on this important issue.

    Thank you for your attention.

    <sign your name>

  • 13. Sam_Handwich  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:02 am

    I find it difficult to believe there are "1353 viewers" listening to this crappy music.

  • 14. MFargo  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:03 am

    (What a guy!)

  • 15. MFargo  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:06 am

    "Mute" is a gift from God.

  • 16. RAJ  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:07 am

    AnonyGrl, thanks for the response and for ALL you're doing…you're the BEST!

  • 17. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:08 am

    LOL……I have it on mute… : ) …Ronnie

  • 18. LCH  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:10 am

    Thank you LLB and AnonyGrl!!


  • 19. Casey  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:12 am

    Thx guys :)

  • 20. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Sheryl, I thought when they adjourned they announced caucus meetings at 10. I hope that's where they are, and I hope they're getting stuff done. Good stuff.

    But we won't know will we? Where's the transparency in government??

  • 21. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:20 am

    I wish! In the gallery, you are not allowed to lie down on the bench… it is disrespectful. You also must be seated not standing when the senators are coming in to the chamber, and can't wear a hat at any time. No food, drink (even water) or cameras allowed. You can text, but cannot talk on the phone. And absolutely no protesting, lobbying, chanting or anything of that sort. No signs. No umbrellas. You can wear t-shirts with slogans and all the buttons and paint you want. No loud talking. Nothing that would disrupt proceedings on the floor.

    And no little pillows. :( Of course, my brother was there, and my sister in law was using him as a very BIG pillow. That was ok as long as she didn't try to lie down… so she just leaned on him. I was really happy to have the two of them there as supporters, they are great. And it was very nice to have a ride home after. And they brought me a salad to take home for dinner (a BIG salad) because they knew I didn't have time to eat between work and running down to the capitol. I have the best family ever!

  • 22. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:22 am

    Thanks to all of you for your nice responses! I am actually having fun sitting around listening to senators mumble about corn and bingo and voter fraud… at least I THINK that is what they are mumbling about, the acoustics in the senate chamber are REALLY good, but only if you know how to use them, and these guys were never given any acting training on how to project, and how to use the room to help yourself be heard… acting 101 stuff, really.

    Anyway, I;ve been enjoying sitting in the gallery, texting things to LLB in Arizona, and having her get them to you here. And the folks sitting around me who are posting to Facebook or emailing friends are enjoying the fact that the news is flashing all around the world to you guys too!

  • 23. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:23 am

    Hooray for AnonyGrl AND her family!!!

  • 24. Sheryl_Carver  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:24 am

    Must be nice to "work for the people," yet get to define what constitutes "work," right? On second thought, they seem to think they get to decide which of their constituents they have to consider "people," too. (Yes, I'm feeling a tad cynical this morning.)

    Guess the waiting is getting to me, & I don't even live in NY!

    I think ID got a little flakey again this morning, AnonyGrl. I signed up to get email on all comments, & the one I'm replying to came through on email, but didn't show up on the P8TT site for several minutes, even after I refreshed a couple time. Given how many of us are on here today, I wouldn't be surprised if ID might have some bandwidth difficulty.

  • 25. Sheryl_Carver  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:25 am


    Transparency? We don't need no stinking transparency!

    (Yup, still feeling cynical!)

  • 26. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:26 am

    As you can see, my computer at work is hiccupping. Anybody know where I ought to pour the glass of water in to get it to stop?

    I am amused that almost 2000 people are hanging around waiting for them to get back into session. My understanding is that usually the get 200 total. If that. LOL

  • 27. Sheryl_Carver  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:27 am


    As an "ignore" function would be when trolls appear here. :-)

  • 28. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:30 am

    Move over, I'm feeling the same.

  • 29. Michguy  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:30 am

    I wish there was a live video feed that would work on a Android Phone. : (

  • 30. Sheryl_Carver  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:32 am

    Oh, so sorry, Casey!

    But as you say, if you had to have a reaction, today is a good day for it. Hope you feel better soon!

  • 31. MFargo  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:33 am

    This site has been particularly blessed with few of those. And given the rest of the "info" sphere, this is just a little bit of heaven (and always respite) for me.

  • 32. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:40 am

    MSNBC's Cenk Uygur talks with Lt. Dan Choi & HRC's Brian Ellner…..<3…Ronnie:

    [youtube es–_2RZ19A–_2RZ19A youtube]

  • 33. Scooter  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:40 am

    Thanks AnonyGrl!
    I have been watching and listening here in CA. If/when NY happens, we will be cheering out on the left coast.
    Then we wait for the Prop 8 conclusion…..!!!!
    Keep your chin up, and we appreciate the hard work.

  • 34. Sheryl_Carver  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:49 am

    I wonder if the restrictions on bringing things in is to prevent irate constituents from throwing things at the members? I'm guessing some of the said members too often provoke that urge.

    So, AnonyGrl, hopefully you won't need to do this again tomorrow or next week, but just in case, I'll bet you could wear a loose pair of pants or a full skirt, with a bit of makeshift padding attached inside where it would provide some degree of comfort when sitting on hard surfaces.

    One of my older friends who had lost muscle mass on his bottom (as is common) bought some briefs that had removable pads in the buttock area. He liked the way it looked, but said that the best part was that they made it more comfortable to sit on hard chairs.

    If I remember correctly, they were kind of expensive, but perhaps if one has to sit on a hard seat for several hours, the cost might be well worth it. :-)

  • 35. Kate  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:52 am

    That's because there is actually intelligent, educated discussion going on here. They simply can't keep up.

  • 36. Lymis  |  June 24, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Does anyone know if the amendments in the Senate mean that if it passes the Assembly has to vote on it again?

  • 37. Casey  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:06 am

    Yes. But it would be quick, I'd think.

  • 38. Sheryl_Carver  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:07 am

    MFargo & Kate,

    You are both correct, of course, which is perhaps why the few that we get tend to stick in my mind. So "manual ignore" as in averting my eyes works sufficiently well.

  • 39. Kathleen  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:10 am

    This report from Salon suggests it's necessary and that the Assembly is ready to do it: "If it passes the Senate, the Assembly is ready to adopt any additional religious protections. "

  • 40. Kathleen  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:12 am

    Adding my thanks to AnonyGrl and LLB for their reporting! I've been glued to my computer for days waiting for this to happen.

  • 41. Anthony  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:12 am

    I hope with everything that I have that today is the day. Boss is out, it's just myself and my straight super-supportive co-worker Katie. We've ordered in pizza and are opening a bottle of white wine. Settling on in for the afternoon here folks, suggest you do the same.

  • 42. 415kathleenk  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:13 am

    slightly OT but i have noticed in recent tv news discussions of the new york vote, lgbt rights in general that the news shows- at least 4 i have seen so far- have avoided bringing on the bigots for 'balance' but instead have a couple of either pro lgbt or ostensibly neutral- eg. Evan Wolfson plus Jeffrey Toobin on CNN Its soooo refreshing.

  • 43. loaferguy  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:15 am

    Patience Running Out in Albany Over Delay on Marriage Equality, Other Votes: VIDEO

    Watch the Senate Dems getting angry.

  • 44. LD1  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Thank you for ignoring!!!

  • 45. davep  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:20 am

    I noticed that too!

  • 46. mr. gay  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Republicans and democrates in albany are getting angry at each other…… No one is sure if gay marriage vote is going to happen today or tomorrow…… They were in session for 13 hours yesterday but only spent 1 hour actually working….. wow, is this what our tax dollars are paying for them to do.

  • 47. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:30 am

    The whole idea of extra padding gives me a giggle, Sheryl! I do know that you are right… all of those things are great ideas… but the thing is, as a large woman, I come with the extra padding built right in! :)

    Also, while the benches are not WILDLY comfortable, as they do have straight up backs, they DO have cushions, so it is not as bad as it could be. I think the hardest part of it for me is the combination of arthritis, sitting all day at work, going over there and sitting for hours, then walking half a mile mostly up hill to get home. By the end of all that, I am really rather stiff and sore… but hey, its all for the cause. You may all feel free to be sympathetic and send me to a spa for some hot tub soaking and a massage when this is over (tee hee!)

  • 48. Sam in SF  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Franklin, what pains me so much about your comments on here is your lack of understanding what we have all gone through! You talk about sexual orientation as if it is a choice, when did you choose to be straight? I, for one, spent a very painful part of my life (from about 19-25) going to church every Sunday, youth group every Wed hoping and praying every morning and every night that God take this burden away from me. Hating myself for the attractions that I felt and fearing for my safety if anyone in my small community found out who I might be attracted to. You don't seem to understand or care that many of us have tried to be straight in our past to try and be what society deemed as "normal". It's an extremely lonely and excruciatingly painful part of our lives. Why is it so hard to look at yourself and see that your hetero sexualness came naturally and that you didn't have to fight for it. Our homosexualness comes just as naturally to us. I'm very thankful that the Trevor Project is there for the youth that are treated so horribly by the kids that grow up in households like yours. I personally know that if my older brother hadn't beaten me to suicide when I was 18 I was close to not being here today. I wish and pray that someday you can see the pain we go through and finally understand that if it were a choice, a fast majority of us would have unchosen it years ago and not have to put up with the hurt that people like you cause!!!

  • 49. waiting in sf  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Obvious troll is obvious

  • 50. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:32 am

    It has been a thrill so far! Have you been keeping an eye on the third chair in the second row? I think it is up to something! I am waiting for it to make its move!!!

  • 51. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:37 am

    No one is arguing against your right to love whomever you choose. We are talking about marriage.

    I support civil unions with all marriage benefits.

  • 52. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:38 am

    They will not be reelected. Just like those Iowa judges.

  • 53. Bob  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:40 am

    I'm waiting and watching from Canada,,,,,,,

  • 54. Ozymandias71  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:40 am

    ((Big ol' Internet HUG to Sam in SF)) I'm right there with ya Sam.

  • 55. Franck  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Or they will be reelected. Just like every single one of them who voted YES last time.

  • 56. Warner  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Franklin. Did your mother not hug you when you were a kid? I am trying to figure out why you are such a hatefilled person? Did your father never take you fishing, or your grandparents didnt sneak you out for ice cream. Did your parents never give you pizza parties for your birthday?

    There has to be a reason why you have no compassion, humanity, morality, or ethics.

  • 57. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Capital Tonight is making it sound like there aren't any pro-equality supporters there!

  • 58. zyzzyx  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Bryce, could you repost any essential CapitalTonight twitter posts for those of us who can't get twitter to work? Thanks!

  • 59. seth from maryland  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:54 am

    its not right that i am able to marry my wife , and my sister and her partner who been together for 8 years now cant, its not right that you Franklin can see some stranger on the street and you and that person can go get married at city hall , while these great people on this site who been together with there partner for years and fighting for their rights that belong to them cant, civil unions are not equal

  • 60. mas  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:55 am

    At work in PA and checking in as often as I can. I'm a 29 year old lesbian engineer who works with a group of 6 straight, white men ranging in age from 50-70. Times are changing–4 of the guys are asking me periodically if there is any news from NY. At least it's true with these guys that they didn't realize they weren't homophobic until they met a homosexual. (I hate those words, but you get my point) They say that if a person knows someone who is LGBT, they are much more likely to be pro-equality–I've seen it work here. It's encouraging.

  • 61. nightshayde  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:55 am


  • 62. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Someone is really belting ourt this little light of mine #samesexmarriage

    Chant: "One man, one woman, one God." #samesexmarriage

    Sen. Michael Gianaris on NY gay marriage bill: "We can't understand what the hold up is.. people throughout the country are watching."

    Protesters beyond the barrier.

    The chanting has begun outside the Senate hallway and Battle Hymn of the Republic.

    Senate GOP settled in for another marathon conference, about to enter hour 4.

    Blaming @MikeBloomberg – and his contributions to the Senate GOP – if #gaymarriage fails, tho he's lobbyied in favor.

    Mike Long, in statement, says Conservative Party doesn't accept religious carveouts in #samesexmarriage bill.

    Consv Chairman Long: No Religious exemption “carve outs” will make gay marriage bill acceptable to the New York State Conservative Party.

    "So I can marry my man and stop dating him." Why Assemb. Matt Titone supports mandate relief. #ssm #samesexmarriage

    One Republican senator says conference has not yet seen religious exemption language and is waiting on that and other bill copy.

  • 63. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:58 am

    I did zyzzyx, but it said it had to be approved by site admins. It does that sometimes. If it isn't up in a few, I will repost.

  • 64. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 9:58 am

    NY Dem Senators call out GOP on Marriage bill:

  • 65. Sam in SF  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Unfortunately we need them all to be the same and recognized federally. I have a Domestic Partnership in WA. If my "partner" and I were driving through Wyoming and got into an accident, that state has laws that actually forbid them to recognize our union. How about the couple from WA in Florida that had been together for 17 years and had 3 kids? The hospital refused to allow her "partner" to see her for days before she died because they don't recognize us in Fl. Or in the ER in NJ where a legal domestic partner was turned away because the ER nurse didn't understand that their "partnership" wasn't a business partnership? All of these real examples show that even when we are granted the rights of marriage (which does not contain all of them) we are discriminated against!

  • 66. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Capital Tonight tweets:
    Someone is really belting ourt this little light of mine #samesexmarriage
    Chant: "One man, one woman, one God." #samesexmarriage
    Sen. Michael Gianaris on NY gay marriage bill: "We can't understand what the hold up is.. people throughout the country are watching."
    Protesters beyond the barrier.
    The chanting has begun outside the Senate hallway and Battle Hymn of the Republic.
    Senate GOP settled in for another marathon conference, about to enter hour 4.
    Blaming @MikeBloomberg – and his contributions to the Senate GOP – if #gaymarriage fails, tho he's lobbyied in favor.
    Mike Long, in statement, says Conservative Party doesn't accept religious carveouts in #samesexmarriage bill.
    Consv Chairman Long: No Religious exemption “carve outs” will make gay marriage bill acceptable to the New York State Conservative Party.
    "So I can marry my man and stop dating him." Why Assemb. Matt Titone supports mandate relief. #ssm #samesexmarriage
    One Republican senator says conference has not yet seen religious exemption language and is waiting on that and other bill copy.

  • 67. Sam in SF  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:03 am

    Thanks, I'm a big hugger 😉

  • 68. Alan_Eckert  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:08 am

    I'll be around playing tourist in San Francisco, taking pictures of the Golden Gate Bridge. I won't be able to keep up as often though =(

  • 69. fiona64  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Franklin, why don't you take up stamp-collecting or something? You are not harmed by marriage equality, so stop acting as though you are.

  • 70. Alan_Eckert  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:08 am

    80 might be the magic number.

  • 71. Alan_Eckert  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Woops wrong reply

  • 72. Alan_Eckert  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:08 am

    80might be the magic number

  • 73. mr. gay  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:09 am

    I have a problem with the democrats and the republicans……. STOP TALKING TO THE NEWS and start working on passing the gay marriage bill….. would have been done already …. wow…. am i the only one starting to get pissed off.

  • 74. fiona64  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:09 am

    "Separate but equal" for the loss … you might want to check Brown v. Board of Education for why that's not acceptable.

  • 75. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Tell me about it! I have plans that I can't cancel on tonight, and I have no clue how I will keep in touch on my lame phone!

  • 76. Warner  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:10 am

    That is the one thing NOM and the catholic church fear. If people learn we arent boy/girl hungry pedophilles out to destory jesus, then more people will support us, because they see us for who we really are; everyday americans with the same worries, hopes, and dreams.

  • 77. LD1  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:12 am

    If it does not happen today (Friday), will Senate convene on Saturday, or wait until Monday? I.e. do they work on the weekends?

  • 78. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:13 am

    I am not generally partisan, but I think the issue is that Republicans control what comes to the floor and wen. So the problem you have isn't really with Dems and Republicans, because even if they weren't talking to the news, the Dems would be doing something else unproductive. They can't do anything until the Republicans put bills on the floor.

  • 79. Maggie4NoH8  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:14 am

    uhhhh… my guess would be fundamental religion. praise Jay-zzzzzuzz

  • 80. ggn  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:14 am

    The Democrats can't do anything to make it happen at this point, except increase public pressure on the Republicans. They have the majority, so they alone decide if it comes to the floor.

  • 81. Kate  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:15 am

    But you did. That is a critical contribution to The Cause.

  • 82. Warner  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:16 am

    given the past week, LD1, are you actually implying that the NY senate works?

  • 83. ggn  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:18 am

    If one side really is more at fault–cough… Republicans!–it's not partisan to point it out.

  • 84. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Now that email updates are over, I am going to try posting only at the bottom — it's too hard to read the nested replies.

    It's too bad this platform has such a small limit — we're going to go way over today!

  • 85. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:21 am

    In this news story ( Sen. Libous says "Nobody wants to be here tomorrow."
    So, I would assume that they do work through the weekends.

  • 86. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:22 am

    "Considering many have waited years for a resolution, and the State Assembly already passed the bill four times, it wouldn't be unheard of if the vote did not happen before senators break for the summer.

    Many on both sides, though, are hoping it does not come to that."

  • 87. mas  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Yeah, it's funny. Out of all of my friends at work, I am the most religious. My faith is incredibly important to me and my partner as well. They hear me talk about church and being in the community and suddenly I get these heartfelt questions of, "Well, how does that work exactly?" "Are you allowed to be a Christian and gay?" Nothing accusatory–just curious. It's always nice to be able to show and explain to them that there isn't anything scary about us. My line to my parents when I came out and to friends is always, "Tell me what you do doing your day. What does your day look like?" When they are done, I tell them about mine. Sometimes it works. You can see the dawning in their eyes when they realize that there isn't anything really scary about us. Should we forget about the 16 hrs of the day where we are similar and focus on the 8 hrs of the day where we sleep with a same/different gender partner or can we realize just how simliar we are?

  • 88. AdamJC  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:24 am

    You're living in a dreamworld, Franklin. Especially in a blue state like NY. Republicans are already heading for a big defeat in 2012, since they have tried to tackle unions, abortion, and everything else under the sun BUT jobs and the economy. Gay marriage simply doesn't have the same impact on the electorate that it did a few years back. People are waking up to the fact that we gays and lesbians just want what is afforded to everyone else – no more and no less. The sooner you wake up and realize that, the sooner you can stop trolling websites like this with hollow arguments.

  • 89. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:27 am

    Via Capital Tonight
    Mike Long, in statement, says Conservative Party doesn't accept religious carveouts in #samesexmarriage bill.

  • 90. mr. gay  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:30 am

    GOOD NEWS…..Thomas W. Libous, the Senate Republican deputy majority leader, said that negotiations were on track and that he expected votes on most issues early Friday afternoon. Asked whether gay marriage could be voted on Friday, Mr. Libous said yes, likley sometime Friday night……
    “Nobody wants to stay here tomorrow,” he said.
    Stephen M. Saland, a veteran lawmaker from the Hudson Valley; Mark J. Grisanti, a freshman whose Buffalo district is overwhelmingly Democratic; and John J. Flanagan of Long Island are still not sure how they are going to vote when it reaches the floor but agrees with the deputy majority leader that it will come to the floor sometime tonight.

    That gives us 31 for gay marriage 31 against gay marriage….. Keep making the calls

  • 91. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Yeah… did you see the one right before?:
    Consv Chairman Long: No Religious exemption “carve outs” will make gay marriage bill acceptable to the New York State Conservative Party.

  • 92. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:32 am

    Hey Anon. Are you still around?

  • 93. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Via @CapitalTonight: Lobbyist emails to say Assembly bills ready by 2.

  • 94. LD1  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:33 am

    what's your source?

  • 95. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:36 am

    It's copied and pasted from one of the links above. I think the NYTimes one.

  • 96. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:37 am

    Oh. Duh. It is the one that I pasted in response to you above. See it has the "nobody wants to stay here tomorrow" that I quoted in that post.

  • 97. AdamJC  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:39 am

    What you fail to realize is that those friends who "chose" to give up homosexuality are, in fact, still gay. They are only suppressing who they truly are to fit into someone else's description of "normal". They may put on a happy face, but I can most certainly guarantee that they are miserable inside. Would you be happy trying to be gay? No, because you're actually straight. Please look at the science that actually back this up. Not so-called science from religious organizations like NARTH, but science from credible sources like the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Psychological Association.
    And regarding your statement of "because of the inevitable effect that open homosexuality will have on our kids and grandkids"…well, that's just too ignorant to even dignify with a response. Here's a piece of advice – maybe you should try the concept of love, instead of living in constant judgement of other. You know…how Jesus taught?

  • 98. seth from maryland  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:39 am

    you dont know crap, sexual orientation is not a act , people are born who they are, also i know ZERO negative effects on my kids infact its really postive for my kids knowing that you can follow in love with anyone you want which leads to less hatred in this world

  • 99. davep  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Now you're just sounding like a troll trying to insult people. But for the sake of any undecided observers:
    1. Marriage equalty causes NO negative impact on children, society, or the govornment. rather, it has a positive impact because it gives same sex families equal legal protection which protects their children. And it has no effect whatsoever on anyone who is not in a same sex marriage. NONE.
    2. The fact that some gay people may decide to live a lie and marry someone of the opposite gender is not a valid reason to deny equal rights, it is just an unfortunate by-product of the denial of those rights.
    (more to come)

  • 100. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:40 am

    Oh. Ann. What is your name on Twitter? Lol. I will follow you!

  • 101. Anthony  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:43 am

    What does that mean?

  • 102. Sam in SF  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:43 am

    What objective are you talking about, none of us want to take away any of the rights granted to religious institutions, freedom of religion or anything like that. That argument has been thoroughly debunked and is only used as a scare tactic "if you give them this they are really after that", it's just simply not true. I don't want to attack your religion because I love that this country was founded on religious freedom or for some freedom from religion, however they choose to practice or not. That is part of the beauty of being American, we can all get along and treat each other as equals. "all men are created equal" remember that? It doesn't say except the Jews, Mormons, Catholics or Gays.

  • 103. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:44 am

    And what about our Kids & grandkids…Oh that's right they are considered expendable to detritus like you as well as worthy of being attacked, harassed, disrespected & more.

    The rest of your Fascist bull is just a repeat of your constant memes filled with your disgusting, speculative, propagated, inhuman, soulless, heterosexist, anti-American, homophobic, bigoted, uneducated, superiority complex, dictatorship…..Get a soul.

    XI …Ronnie

  • 104. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Bryce, that is flattering, but I hardly ever tweet. I just follow, LOL.

  • 105. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:47 am

    NYSenDems is tweeting that their bills are being printed.

  • 106. davep  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:48 am

    3. Being gay does not mean someone has 'issues' any more than being hispanic or being budhist means someone has 'issues'. It's a minority. Stop with the insults.
    4. Gay people do not want equal rights and equal legal protectiosn to 'make them feel normal', they ARE normal already and they want these things because they are tax paying citizens entitled to equal rights.
    5. You keep making vague insinuations about some scary ulterior motive for legalizing same sex marraige. You're being paranoid. I can assure that I want it for exactly the reasons I keep stating.
    6. Again with the 'think of the children!" nonsense. Why don't YOU think of the children and how they are affected by anti-gay bigotry and discrimination in society, in school, in the workplace, and in the laws. Legalizing civil marriage for same sex families helps to provide justice and equality for all. That is a good thing. There is NO 'down side' to equal rights.

  • 107. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Wow the bigotry and bias here is quite sad!

    Lawmakers vote NO or you will NOT be reelected. Guaranteed!

  • 108. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:49 am

    TROLL…. 8 / …..Ronnie

  • 109. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:49 am

    Neither are homosexual relationships and heterosexual ones… not equal.

  • 110. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:50 am

    Law can be changed to fix that.

  • 111. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:50 am

    Lol, well. I had an ulterior motive anyway.

  • 112. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:50 am

    You will always be separate. Better settle for equal.

  • 113. seth from maryland  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:51 am

    it about effing time

  • 114. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:51 am

    TROLL…. 8 / …Ronnie

  • 115. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Seth, are you on twitter?

  • 116. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Love requires truth.

  • 117. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:53 am

    Gay is in no way is the same thing as race!

  • 118. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:53 am

    OK, then what is your name on Twitter?

  • 119. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:53 am

    And with expanded civil unions with all the same legal benefits you are not harmed either.

  • 120. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:54 am

    While NYC might be blue its a big state and much of it is red.

    Lawmakers you will NOT be reelected if you vote yes!

  • 121. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Then don't tax us equal…there solved….. TROLL!!!… XI …Ronnie

  • 122. Bob  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Franklin,,,, you're such an impassioned guy,,,,,, determined to be heard,,, and really fighting for the NO vote,,,,, wonder why you're seeking attention on here,,,, you need to be telling the Senator's what you want,,,,,, they don't read our site to get there direction,,,, lobby your Senator,,,,,

    we are all going to have to live with each other after this vote,,,, and EQUALITY is inevitable,, if it comes from this vote or the courts,,,,,

    wishing you PEACE

  • 123. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 10:59 am

    Neither of which you possess… XI ….Ronnie

  • 124. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:00 am


  • 125. davep  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:00 am

    yeah, and it's not the same as ethnicity or religion or disability or age. They are all examples of differnt types of minorities. Obviously, the specifics of each minority are different from the others. But they ALL deserve equal rights and equal legal protections. And that is why civil marriage equality is important – the particular minority of LGBTs cannnot have equal rights without this.

  • 126. Bob  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:01 am

    the action will commence when we see a copy of the text,,,,,,,

  • 127. Ozymandias71  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:01 am

    "I personally know people who participated in homosexual acts and decided to give them up for marriage and kids. Happily married guys who just decided that homosexual sex was not worth giving up a "normal" lifestyle for. They chose to be heterosexual and are. They'd never come out and tell the world that, but close friends have been told. "

    *clenches fists* Sounds so clean and tidy doesn't it? These people who 'gave up the homosexual lifestyle' are leading better, cleaner lives that are more 'acceptable to society', right? Of course the people who tout 'ex-gays' don't have the slightest idea what the victims of this practice go through – why would they? They don't have to, because they're already 'acceptable to society'. Trust me, there are plenty of us who know – all too well.

    Well, I'll just say this – there are thousands of us (or perhaps tens of thousands of us) who either put ourselves (or were pressured into) the psychological torture rack – desperately doing everything we could to 'go straight'. Dating (or even marrying) the opposite sex, 'therapy', prayer and fasting and prayer – the list goes on and on. A lot of us didn't make it out the other side – Americans would be horrified and outraged if the actual number of 'ex-gays' ended up committing suicide were ever made known. Of course, to people touting the 'ex-gay' solution, those victims are just morally weak, or would say something condescending and patronizing. Just like your response to Sam.

    Being condescending to Sam, belittling his pain, giving him a pat on the head and saying 'There, there' would be the height of insult if done to anyone else – but of course he's Gay so in your book, that's all right.

    You can sugar-coat your 'get back in the closet, suffer in silence and stay there!' agenda all you want – we're not fooled.

  • 128. Steve  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:02 am

    Yeah, listen to the Bible! Shellfish is an abomination!

  • 129. seth from maryland  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:02 am


  • 130. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:02 am

    Nobody said they are exactly the same…its called parallels …Regardless, both are protected under the 1st & 14th amendments & the Human Rights Act as well…..DEAL WITH IT TROLL!!!….. XI …Ronnie

  • 131. Sam in SF  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:02 am

    But your side even revolts against Civil Unions, otherwise all 50 states would have them and they would be federally recognized. So let's get rid of the word Marriage in civil law, make it so that only marriages are performed in a church and the legal recognition of those marriages is called a civil union. Then we could all say that this is my husband (or wife in your case) and we are "unioned" everybody on both sides should be happy with that. Then your marriage is sacred (even though history shows us marriage did not start as a church thing) and we all have equal rights!!!

  • 132. Carpool_Cookie  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:03 am

    Are there the rivers of protesters in the halls again, like yesterday, or do they show up after work?

  • 133. Carpool_Cookie  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:05 am

    Wow….what kind of place do you work in?? Sounds dreamy.

  • 134. Carpool_Cookie  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Re: "For almost all of history, people with same-sex attraction learned to adapt to a society that recognized the unique importance of the procreative aspect of the man-woman union."

    Well, when they had time off from being burned at the stake…

    And I don't know if what you're describing is "adapting", exactly. It's merely…enduring.

  • 135. Jason Hubbard  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Not to be a negative nancy, but why is it I am in the mode of 'it is not going to happen'
    I suppose after other legislative failures in the past few years I'm not excitedly holding my breath any more. PASS! I need renewed energy to stay upbeat!

  • 136. PoxyHowzes  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Hey Anonygrl, can I add my deep appreciation for your being there two nights in a row now? Yesterday (Thursday) your updates, via LLB, reassured me (if that's the word) that no vote would happen, and so allowed me to pack it in and go to bed before you could get out of the Senate chamber.

    I'm tellin' ya, grl, having ONE of you in the gallery is worth INFINITELY more than having a bunch of do-nothing senators on the floor who refuse to vote for equality!

  • 137. Manawolf  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Ah yes! There it is. You simply believe you're better than us. Good to have those cards on the table.

    Justify it all you like, a belief in the innate superiority of heterosexuality is a horrible basis for civil legislation – just like the belief in the innate superiority of men, or of whites, or of Christians. It is no different, and in 30 years – more likely 10 or less – attitudes like this will be just as acceptable as blatant racism or sexism. You are welcome to think this, but you are not welcome to legislate it because laws (and public, civil institutions) are for everyone, not just the straight people.

    Take your prejudices home and keep them out of our laws – they should apply equally to all people regardless of gender.

  • 138. Andrew_SEA  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:12 am

    So what is the news on the floor?

    /is ignoring Franklin. He is not seeking any understanding, just baiting.

  • 139. Charlie Galvin  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:13 am

    Well, if that's true, perhaps we should all go drop in for tea with Franklin. :-)

  • 140. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Wash….Rinse…Repeat…..Wash….Rinse…Repeat…..Wash….Rinse…Repeat….. 8 / ….Ronnie

  • 141. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:16 am

    A top ranking Republican in New York's Senate says legislators don't want to let a much-anticipated vote on gay marriage drag into the weekend.

    Deputy Majority Leader Thomas Libous says the 32 Republican senators who hold the majority in that chamber could meet behind closed doors later Friday to take up the matter after they get through other bills.

  • 142. nightshayde  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Does anyone have an inkling as to which way Senator Grisanti may be leaning? I e-mailed him the other day, but just wrote a new e-mail to him, hoping to sway him to vote for equality.

    Dear Senator Grisanti,

    When I was born in New York in 1968, nobody would have dreamed that in 2011, there would be a legal battle over granting equality to all citizens. Today, you have the opportunity to improve the lives of thousands of New Yorkers and their families.

    If given the chance, please vote today to support marriage rights for all of NY's citizens – not just those who happen to be heterosexual, and not just for those gay citizens who are fortunate enough to be able to spend their tax dollars in other states to get married.

    Whether your personal beliefs tell you marriage should be between loving partners regardless of gender or that marriage should be only between a man and a woman, please let each New Yorker make his/her decision as to whom to marry.

    Those whose beliefs favor discrimination over equality should not have the opportunity to force their beliefs on others or to limit the rights of people who don't believe as they do. Those who claim this is a battle to "save marriage," "protect marriage" or "defend traditional marriage" are creating a false distinction. Those who support marriage equality don't have anything against men marrying women or women marrying men. In fact, many of us ARE straight and in "traditional" marriages already. We just want our GLBT friends, relatives, co-workers and fellow citizens to enjoy the same rights that we often take for granted.

    Deeply-held personal religious beliefs against homosexuality are a good reason for believers to limit their own conduct. They are not an acceptable reason to limit the conduct or the rights of people who believe differently. Pro-equality religious institutions should have the freedom to conduct marriage ceremonies as they believe – and to have the government and civil laws give their ceremonies the same weight as the ceremonies performed by more conservative religious institutions.

    Freedom of religion can not and should not be defined in a manner which only grants that freedom to one particular brand of religion. We also must make a clear distinction between "freedom of religion" and "the right to discriminate," especially when taxpayer dollars are involved.

    The government's job is to make sure laws are equally-applied to all citizens. Individual citizens are free to voice their support for discrimination whether that discrimination be directed against those of a different gender, different religion, different race, different sexual orientation, or any of a variety of people deemed "different." Civil laws & governmental policies, however, should not accommodate discrimination in any form, for any reason.

    Denying what the US Supreme Court has declared a "fundamental right" on many occasions to a select group of citizens based on who they are is unconscionable. Basing civil laws and civil protections (and limiting said protections to those only of a certain religious persuasion) flies in the face of the idea of Separation of Church and State.

    Civil rights should be guaranteed by the government — not subject to a vote of the people. Basing the rights of a minority on the whims (or tyranny) of a majority is not something we should be doing in 21st century America. We are better than that.

    We need brave legislators to stand up and fight for ALL of their constituents regardless of religious belief, sexual orientation, political affiliation — leaders who aren't afraid to tell their constituents that discrimination is wrong, no matter what.

    Please, please, PLEASE vote to reject discrimination & embrace equality. Please let the citizens of your district, and of all of New York that you value them equally and wish to make sure all are treated as equals under the law.

    Please vote to support marriage equality.

    Thank you,

    nightshayde (real name and e-mail addy here)

  • 143. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Fiona, the business arrangement was based on the fact that women made the men's babies. First time I've ever heard about the adelpopiaiia rite, but no doubt it was never accepted by the catholic church. In any case, whatever the history of marriage it has always been about a man and woman uniting because of the fact that only men and women make babies. There is no history of same-sex unions because they do not produce anything, and frankly because homosexuality was always perceived to be a behavior not an orientation.

    I don't care what people do in the bedroom; just as long as it stays in the bedroom and isn't preached to young children as some great thing, unless it is a great thing like creating children. My wife doesn't like to participate in any of the things that gay people do with their sex organs; many women don't; since she gets no pleasure from it, it's all good with me.

  • 144. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Gah, twitters that they're gonna take up a bill about livery (WTF?) and SUNY tuition. Well, I guess the more they get out of the way, the sooner they'll get to marriage equality.

  • 145. aquaCA  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Greetings from CA (Sacramento). First time posting but long time follower. I don't think I have been this excited (and anxious) since we went through the Prop H8 trial. Keeping fingers crossed for all the fabulous NYers waiting for equality!

  • 146. AdamJC  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Ugh. You entire response is based on the premise that being gay is a choice, which it isn't. And simply because you want to believe it's a choice, you discredit the experts. I suggest you look into the concept of cognitive dissonance, because it's exactly what you're doing.

  • 147. Joe  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:28 am

    My spouse is an illegal alien. If this leads to the US government accepting gay marriage, I can sponsor him and he can be in the US legally. We don't have unlimited funds to fight this in the courts like other people do, and we do not want the publicity.

  • 148. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Sam – We have seen in jurisdictions where marriage has been legalized that the homosexual activists continue to push, push, push to change even more things, be it teaching homosexuality in public schools, forcing Catholic adoption agencies to decide whether they can stay or go, and forcing businesses to go against their personal moral principles.

    These aggressive tactics are what makes it bad for the innocent couple who just want to settle down. Good people who are already living decent lives and just want the little extra that marriage would provide to them and their families. Your activists are relentless and dangerous.

  • 149. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Blah blah blah blah blah….."I'm superior"….blah blah blah blah blah….."I'm special because I'm a odious heterosexist porcine"……blah blah blah blah blah blah….This has nothing to do with marriage & is not going to change anything…..blah blah blah blah….you're a benighted dogmatist… blah blah blah….Get a soul…. XI …Ronnie

  • 150. AdamJC  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:30 am

    That's funny Franklin! You actually made me laugh out loud. Unfortunately, it has become quite clear that you don't possess truth. What you possess is truthiness. Since I'm quite sure you have no idea what that is, I'll break it down for you:

    truthiness (ˈtruːθɪˌnəs);
    — n
    informal (of a belief, etc) the quality of being considered to be true because of what the believer wishes or feels, regardless of the facts

  • 151. Samantha  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Is it just me… or does it seem like they're drawing out all the attention they're getting from the gay marriage bill until the very end so they can keep the focus on themselves for as long as possible? Politicians playing games with the media attention? Naw… they wouldn't play with people's rights like that, would they? (being facetious of course :)

  • 152. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Ronnie – LIghten up. That's no way to win friends. That kind of language is what makes the traditionalist rise up in the first place. We're not mean people; we just like things the way they always have been.

  • 153. Waxr  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:37 am

    When e-mailing Senator's be sure to include "Yes on Marriage Equality" in the subject line. The mail is usually just read by the staff, and when the mail is running heavy, they often just count the number for or against a bill. So make your position known early.

  • 154. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Bryce, you have to follow me for me to send you a msge.

  • 155. Michael in SF  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:38 am

    any lawmaker should do the right thing, whether or not it gets them reelected. Voting to deny equality to citizens just to win the next election is reprehensible. I would be proud to go down in defeat if it meant voting for everyone to have freedom.

    The fact that you continue to insist that homosexual and heterosexual relationships are not equal is evidence of your heterosupremacist prejudice. Wielding the power of law as a weapon against your fellow citizens is not cool, bro.

  • 156. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Whatever you are legally allowed to do in public with your (undeserved) family & with whatever female would allow you to touch her…..I'm allowed to do it to with my boyfriend/husband (whichever he is at the time).

    You talk about your family in public, We will too & you will deal with it.

    You hold hands & show affection in public, We will too & you will deal with it.

    This have NOTHING to do with marriage. This has to do with forcing us to live OUR public lives how you want & demand in public places that OUR hard earned money pays for as much as yours does. You are a selfish inhuman Fascist…..Get a soul….. XI ….Ronnie

  • 157. fiona64  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Bruce, just because you have never heard of something doesn't mean it isn't so. Did you even read the link? The liturgy and the history is right there.

    And no, the business arrangement was NOT based on procreation. It was based on the idea that a woman is CHATTEL. Property. Something with which I know you agree, since you already told us that you don't love your wife.

    Finally, sexual orientation is something that is only recently understood. There have always been gay people and always will be … and no, they were not always "shunned." Re-read (assuming you bothered in the first place) the link about the history of marriage. Specifically, I suggest you read up on the Spartan men. And if you've never read about them, visit a magic place called

  • 158. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Sorry. Did it!

  • 159. fiona64  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:41 am

    WRONG. The Catholic Charities adoption agency closed its doors voluntarily because it wanted to discriminate while accepting public funds.

    And I DEFY you to show one single, solitary instance of a school "teaching homosexuality." I'll wait … for a long, long time. Because I know you for a liar.

  • 160. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Does anyone know if there are more protesters for or against equality at the capital?

  • 161. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:42 am

    The guys I'm referring to didn't go to any therapy session; they wanted to get married and have kids. They had close male friends and close women friends; and they decided to make a commitment to a woman and the families that they created. Do they feel that they're denying who they are? They've expressed it as more of a sexual obsession that they had, where they were all about getting off and finding that it was easier to find guys who wanted to fool around than it was women (that's a simplification).

    Me, personally, I've always been a straight guy, but I have had close relationships with men where I can see how one could be attracted to someone of the same sex. I still have close male friends; we male-bond with one another, we just don't screw each other.

    Anyway, as I said I'm sure that there are differing levels of challenge for people who have same-sex attraction and don't want to have it. But the whole thing is behavioral modification: men and women aren't that much different, there are guys who are effeminate and women who are masculine; as my mom used to say, "Everyone has their [opposite sex] match." THe tougher part, perhaps, is giving up the sexual equipment preference, but that's just learning to control your sexual drive. Married guys and priests have been doing this for ages.

  • 162. fiona64  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Oh, bullshit. Things have "not always been" the way you insist they are. I have no doubt that you possess a Bible … how many wives did Solomon have again?

    And while we're at it, re-read the stories of Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan, and the centurion and his beloved slave. All of those relationships are connoted as romantic by the Hebrew word "dybbuk."

  • 163. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:43 am

    All propagated lies out of the deleterious mouths of homophobic Fascists

    Your side is the one that carries around signs promoting murder & violence toward LGBT people. Your side is the one that is dangerous….Get a soul….. XI ….Ronnie

  • 164. fiona64  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:45 am

    I know I'm not harmed by marriage equality, Franklin — and neither is my husband. Again, you assume that everyone here is GLBT. Not so. What you don't seem to understand is that marriage confers more than 1400 rights automatically — which must all be called out separately in a DP that is no longer valid if the couple moves to another state, or one of them is deployed in the military (or has to take a job in another state) … and that's just two examples in which it is not even remotely equal.

  • 165. fiona64  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:47 am

    It is indeed sad, Franklin. So, why don't you leave and take your bigotry with you?

  • 166. Guest  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Another good reason to encourage people to come out of the closet. As tweeted by a recent youtube star, 'A conservative fan wrote: "Didn't know you're gay. It doesn't change my opinion of you…but it's making me rethink my opinion of myself.'"

  • 167. MFargo  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:53 am

    It seems to me that they would be eager to defeat it; otherwise….. However, if it passes, they will loose a serious "wedge" issue. And with the courts on the heels of those who are discriminating, perhaps this is the best they can hope for. Whichever, it's sorry to watch.

  • 168. Ozymandias71  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Hi mr gay! I'm 39 and a life-long Oklahoman along with my partner. :)

    Personally this won't change our lives just yet – Oklahoma (like several other states) is unlikely to enact Marriage Equality until forced to by the federal government, but having New York embrace Marriage Equality is a HUGE step in that direction.

  • 169. MFargo  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:56 am

    It can only happen if people work for it. No one's going to give it to us. The Prop 8 campaign was a very stinging lesson. Don't ever let down your guard.

  • 170. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:57 am

    I would never be friends with someone like you. Trust when I say that if any of my friends & family talked about me & disrespected me the way you do I would cut them out of my life faster then a tumor. Thankfully, EVERYBODY in my family & ALL of my friends are decent human beings that love & support me 100%.

    I don't care what you want in reference to any & ALL aspects of MY life. Get that through your dense, ignorant bigot skull.

    Lastly, keep your selfish, elitist, "traditions" to yourself. They have nothing to do with me & I don't have to adhere them & you have to learn to deal with that FACT of life…..Get a soul… XI ….Ronnie

  • 171. fiona64  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Oh, I know you didn't bring up priests, dude …

    Really? How many kids did Pope Alexander have again? Including the notorious Lucretia and Cesare Borgia?


  • 172. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 11:58 am

    More propagated Lies…… 8 / …..Ronnie

  • 173. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Didyou get my message?

  • 174. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Clearing a bunch of other bills, trying to get to marriage.

    Also, the Speaker of the Assembly is an observant Jew and does not work between sundown Friday and sundown Saturday. So — no Assembly session tonight / tomorrow.

  • 175. Balu  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:02 pm!/capitaltonight reports "bill expected to move out of rules so the anti-#ssm side would be unhappy."

  • 176. mr. gay  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    while we are waiting i thought you might want to listen to a awesome song…. .

  • 177. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    @EvanWolfson on CNN last night: "Marriage is not defined by who is denied it.

  • 178. Steve  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    While it's true that sexuality as a fixed orientation only became officially understood so in the late 19th century, you can find older sources where gay people certainly thought that they were born as such. Anne Lister is a great case:

    She was a moderately wealthy landowner living in early 19th century England and very sure of her sexuality. She openly pursued women and eventually lived with a heiress. Their wealth and power among the local businesses allowed them to get away with it.

    Anyways, even the frickin Bible can be interpreted to support sexuality as fixed:
    "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." – Mathew 19:3-12

    Jesus certainly wasn't speaking about men born without testicles.

  • 179. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    ROFL…..Every member of the Borgia family was wanton & more….such "good" Christians…. XP …Ronnie

  • 180. Scott  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    More power to you, mas! One of several reasons, including the big personal one, that I came out at work and in general was so that other people would be around "a gay" and I know it has had a modest, but real effect. But you don't always know when it happens: just last year, a former work colleague from about 8 years ago let me know that seeing me live and work among others while being out helped him be much more open about who he is. Now he's out, accepted at work and by his family. I seriously think that some people are truly unaware there are so many of us at work, school, shopping, etc. — doing the same things they are! Mas, I'm very encouraged to hear about your experience at work. Best wishes!

  • 181. fiona64  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    To say nothing of the fact that plenty of "married guys" have mistresses, or a little something on the side. Like George Rekers (the famous "ex-gay" therapist whose debunked opinions you are spouting) and his Argentinian rentboy.

  • 182. Waxr  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    That is no excuse. There are enough Assembly votes to pass it without the Speaker's vote, or could send in his proxy.

  • 183. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Via Capital Tonight
    Assmly Min Ldr Kolb briefed on draft #ssm religious exemption language this am, says deals w organizations, not institutions. Not in print.

    NO idea what this even means. The last part, I mean — organizations, not institutions? WTF?

  • 184. Carpool_Cookie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:11 pm


    EDIT: to the ever exciting Posting Process, I mean : )

  • 185. Carpool_Cookie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Livery is what aristocratic coachmen used to wear in the 1800's.

    Though at the rate they're virtually plowing through the Marriage Equality issue, I'm not surprised they're still debating that.

  • 186. Kevin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Me too. I *love* using the opposition's tools against them.

  • 187. nightshayde  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    I'm a 42-year old happily-married straight ally in California.

    I'm not sure exactly how the vote will change my life — but I know that equality benefits us all in one way or another. If marriage equality DOES become law in New York, it will at least give me another piece of ammo when arguing with pro-discrimination people.

    I know our side will win eventually on the national stage. When that happens, I will be very proud to know that I supported the efforts from the get-go.

  • 188. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    Ronnie –

    That's what society is all about. We limit some behaviors and encourage others because of the goodness or badness that they bring to our society. Heterosexual sex has a huge impact on society -good for homosexuals too! – and that is why it is worthy of special treatment.

  • 189. aquaCA  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    What is this obsession you people have about gay (male) sex?? Sickening…

  • 190. Anthony  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    Ok I've had 4 glasses of white wine. Can we get SOMETHING on the screen besides an empty Senate Chamber. I would take a seal bouncing a rubber ball on its nose. A woman juggling fire. A child reading a book report. I'm frickin DYING here.

  • 191. nick  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    I like what a someone said in the comments section on Towleroad the other day — You swore on the Bible to UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION. You DID NOT swear on the Constitution to uphold the Bible !!!!!!!!

  • 192. nightshayde  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    Perhaps granting exemptions to specific (Catholic Adoption Services comes to mind, whatever it's called) agencies, but not to all adoption agencies or something like that?

  • 193. fiona64  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Really? Then you can choose to be gay, by your own logic.

    BTW? There are plenty of scientific studies that prove the biological origins of homosexuality. Here is just one: O brother where art thou: The Fraternal Birth Order Effect on Male Sexual Orientation. I hope that the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in the United States of America is a good enough source for you; it is for the rest of the world, what with it being peer-reviewed and all.

  • 194. nightshayde  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    LOL – perhaps this is a good indication as to why I'm not terribly active on Twitter. I can barely even get STARTED with a mere 140 characters.

  • 195. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    I'll read the link. Women were important as chattel because they make babies, heirs, workers. My wife won't deny that one of the reasons I married her was that she was able to reproduce with me; and she will admit that one of the reasons she married me was that I was able to reproduce with her. And frankly, I'm not sure that if either of us were infertile whether we would have gotten married to one another. Not unusual.

    Look, Spartan men and Socrates and all of those who participated in homosexual acts were anomalies in the long history of the world. It was tried and it died; it was not valuable to society. So, we can go on that ride again only to see our society fail as the Romans' (who normalized homosexual behavior) did.

  • 196. Anthony  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    This is the best quote of my entire week. Thank you for this. It's immediately become my Facebook and Twitter status.

  • 197. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Except being Gay is not a behavior….I don't behave homosexual & I am a homosexual….. I don't need a "gay gene" to tell me that. I lived my life, not you….Leave the mind reading to the professionals, Gay Whisperer…. 8 / …Ronnie

  • 198. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    If it helps any while I am a woman reading a child's book, I could bounce a burning rubber seal on my nose….

    But that would just be silly.

  • 199. Carpool_Cookie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    That's REVERE….not Reveire.

    Only because we're on the topic of typos, and nothing's going on in the live-feed cast (which probably isn't the right term, either)

  • 200. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    Best guess, it means that the language includes religious organizations that are specifically religious, (like churches and Knights of Columbus?) but does NOT include non-profit organizations (like maybe adoption agencies, even when run by churches?) At least I HOPE that is what it means. That would be FINE by me!

  • 201. mas  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Just as extra info— those lines come from a hearing in 2006 to prohibit gay marriage. It was between Jamie Raskin, a law professor from AU and Republican Senator Nancy Jacobs. It's been one of my favorite quotes for the last couple of years.

  • 202. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Fiona – Catholics have been accepting public funds in exchange for good works for centuries and it has done society a wealth of good and independence from government. The homosexual activists – who are NOT SATISFIED WITH JUST LETTING PEOPLE GET MARRIED – emboldened with marriage rights decided to go on the attack. "All we want to do is get married," becomes "And teach your children about homosexuality," and "destroy your churches," "and give government more power over children," etc…. That's the problem, fiona; you won't leave well enough alone; you want to destroy society.


  • 203. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Nope….All wrong….& you are disgusting….completely devoid of ALL decent humanity….Get a soul…. XI ….Ronnie

  • 204. fiona64  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    It's because they're a bunch of prurient busybodies.

  • 205. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    It doesn't matter if the Assembly doesn't take it up till Monday. They are on board, and will approve whatever the Senate passes, and they will do it at their earliest chance. The major hurdle is the Senate. Once we get that, we can celebrate. Oh my GOD (and I think she forgives me for calling on her in vain in this instance) I want this DONE already!!!

  • 206. asiesamigo  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Hey Anthony! Sounds as if you need to get laid.

  • 207. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    No idea… not there yet. Will be out of here (work., blah) in 1.5 hours, then will get there and tell you what I know! :)

  • 208. Str8Grandmother  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    My heart goes out for you Joe. It is so discriminatory that heterosexuals can sponsor their husband/wife but gays can't. This really chaps me.

  • 209. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Actually I was talking about "always been" in terms of our lifetimes. I don't know where my Bible is; I'm sure I have one. I'm not a religious guy, but I do recognize the good works that the Catholic Church has done (despite attacks by homosexual activists that they don't do ENOUGH! – Which way to they want it?) around the world, even for homosexuals. It just doesn't condone their behavior, and for that it gets sh!t on.

  • 210. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Aw, that's too bad Ronnie. I could see through your hateful remarks. I seriously understand your perspective, I just disagree with it, and I especially disagree with how you express it.

  • 211. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    You are one of the most repulsive people on the face of the Earth…..GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!…. XP…Ronnie

  • 212. Anthony  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Haha Asiesamigo are you volunteering for the job?

  • 213. Str8Grandmother  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Meg you made me cry. I feel both your love AND your pain in your writing.

  • 214. Xandoz  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Tell that to all the "accidents" and orphaned children.

  • 215. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Not better, different. Always will be the case.

  • 216. Steve  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Your life sounds horrible

    The Roman Empire fell because it overextended itself militarily, went into economic decline and made Christianity the state religion. Sounds very similar to the US actually.

    Homosexuality and transgenderism was also accepted in many American Indian cultures. Until Christians came along and screwed them up:

    During various periods in China, it was also accepted. Same with the Arabic world. In many cases, modern homophobia is something exported by the West into other countries

  • 217. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Well, I didn't say they were all successful. And I don't want to open the sex abuse door, because I just don't have the time to discuss it. Perhaps the point is that the challenge of behavioral change has always been recognized as a worthy objective, notwithstanding the fact that some will not be able to overcome their urges.

  • 218. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    You wouldn't recognize either. Immature love requires tolerance. Real love requires truth.

  • 219. Carpool_Cookie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    << 4 of the guys are asking me periodically if there is any news from NY. >>

    LOVE IT! I bet they're good parents.

  • 220. Str8Grandmother  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    It will give me hope, hope that one day, one day I will become the legal grandmother to my grandchildren. This is a part of my life that is very painful to me, this lack of legal status for my daughter and then by extension to myself and my husband.

  • 221. Ray  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    Gee, hopefully in 30 days you two can get married!

  • 222. Xandoz  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    What "badness" comes from gay behaviors? Please be specific. (And you finding it distasteful is not a valid reason).x

  • 223. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    TECHNICALLY churches CAN discriminate against Jews, women and blacks… they actually DO, to an extent, for instance, how many female Catholic priests are there? How many Jews are married in cathedrals? Legally churches can refuse religious sacraments to anyone they dislike.

    Which is why I am ok with that part of the language. The carveout for KoC is a bit iffy, but I am willing to let that one pass for now.

  • 224. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Some interesting research on cause of homosexuality (watch everyone ignore the facts and criticize the source):

    The nature versus nurture debate just took an unexpected turn — thanks to pollution.

    Increased exposure to the toxic chemical mercury can affect sexual preference in certain species of birds — inducing homosexuality, a new study has revealed.….

    The research has never revealed that people are born gay. In fact, the research indicates that there are many factors, including possible biological and environmental factors, which contribute to a homosexual orientation (LeVay, 1996; Whitehead & Whitehead, 1999).

    Italian geneticists may have explained how genes apparently linked to male homosexuality survive, despite gay men seldom having children. Their findings also undermine the theory of a single “gay gene”.

    While scientists have found intriguing biological differences between gay and straight people, the evidence so far stops well short of proving that we are born with a sexual orientation that we will have for life. Even more important, some research shows that sexual orientation is more fluid than we have come to think, that people, especially women, can and do move across customary sexual orientation boundaries, that there are ex-straights as well as ex-gays.
    While environmental factors may include experiences of sexual abuse or other traumatic events, a common contributor to same-sex attractions is a disruption in the development of gender identity. Gender identity refers to a person’s view of his or her own gender; that is, his or her sense of masculinity or femininity. Gender identity is formed through the relationships that a child has with the same-sex parent and same-sex peers.

  • 225. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    @NYSenDems NY State Senate Dems
    Update: we're just beginning to receive drafts of legislation and will be conferencing on them at 4PM today. #NYSenate

  • 226. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Not to mention that IF it is ever shown to be genetic, evolutionary speaking it will be eliminated over time.

  • 227. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    That would be unfortunate if true. Catholic Charities gets a lot of state funding to run those agencies, and to allow them to use that money to discriminate would be wrong. If they choose NOT to accept state funds, well, it is still wrong, but possibly not illegal at that point. I dunno. I don't like it either way. Adoption is NOT a religious sacrament, and there are anti-discrimination laws that deal with it already. Gutting those would be bad.

  • 228. Steve  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Mass Resistance is officially classified as a hate group

  • 229. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Ronnie is a perfect example why gays will never gain the acceptance that they think will make them happy. Keep up the good work Ronnie. People may even pay you to just keep on going!

  • 230. Carpool_Cookie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Has anyone ever been married in a Knights of Columbus meeting hall, anyway?

  • 231. aquaCA  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    There you go to the sex thing. Wow… You would love Nazi Germany. But, alas, unfortunately for you, and fortunately for us, the world is changing and ignorant, cruel people like you are becoming a tiny speckle in the rear-view mirror of the progressive forward minded bus.

  • 232. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    SCOTUS seems to think otherwise as well as most Americans.

    Keep up the great work!!

  • 233. nightshayde  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    It's quite possible that your friends were never "gay," but that they are bisexual. They had same-sex partners at one point in their lives, but found women with whom they fell in love — women for whom they were perfectly willing to become monogamous.

    It doesn't mean they're straight. It means they're bisexual & happen to be in long-term loving relationships with women. If they are happy, more power to them. There's nothing wrong with bisexuals choosing to become monogamously involved with opposite-sex partners.

    This just goes to reinforce my theory that the people who believe sexuality is a choice are bisexual & are blessed with the possibility of finding a partner to love without being limited to one gender or the other. Because they have a "choice" of sorts, they figure that everyone is like them. There are many people out there, though, for whom such a "choice" isn't a realistic option. Yes – you can control your actions when it comes to pursuing someone to whom you're attracted. You can't, however, make a choice as to what kind of people you find attractive.

    It's very easy for many bisexuals to convince other people (and to convince themselves) that they are straight. In fact, many bisexuals don't even realize they ARE "bisexual" since they figure everyone feels the way they do and that such feelings are normal for "straight" people. Gays and lesbians can certainly pretend they're straight in order to fit in, or in order to survive — but they shouldn't HAVE to do that. Everyone should be free to love the consenting adult partner of his/her choosing — and everyone should have the right to have their long-term monogamous commitment treated equally … regardless of whether they choose to have children, choose not to have children, choose to adopt children, choose not to adopt children, or want to have children but find themselves unable for one reason or another.

    Procreation is only a good reason for marrying someone if both people in the couple agree on that fact. Each couple has its own reasons or combination of reasons for getting married. As long as both people in the couple share the same reasons for getting married, nobody else should really care.

  • 234. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    MAUDE!!!…. 8 / ….Ronnie

  • 235. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    I don't! I support them and that's the best you all hope for.

  • 236. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    I mean that society has always paid special attention to male-female relationships because of their value to society, and people who had same-sex attraction weren't all killing themselves over it; they recognized that their relationships were different from male-female relationships and either went with the flow or didn't. We know that many who didn't went on to live very fulfilling lives in their own way. Hell, look at Liberace. Nobody burned him at the stake; he was loved by millions and everyone knew he was not the marrying type, as they say. But no one wanted their kid to be the next Liberace….

  • 237. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Show us how you are harmed with all the same legal rights.

    I won;lt hold my breath!

    Keep up the great work for our side!

  • 238. Carpool_Cookie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Can we introduce a bill for better music? It sounds like they're playing Aerosmith guitar solos now.

  • 239. Steve  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Oh boy. Narth.

    We know that are just a troll and a moron. But Jesus fucking Christ, at least use some credible sources.

  • 240. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    SCOTUS will make it all equal,you'll see.

    Expanded civil unions will be the national reality.

  • 241. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Hey fiona – Do you agree that if SSM is legalized then the homosexual activists will stop stirring the pot? After all, if everybody has their 1400 rights, why wouldn't they just leave it at that?

  • 242. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    I have no bigotry except the bigotry that has been thrown at me.

  • 243. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    The right thing is to support man-women marriage.

  • 244. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    JUST an observation, but the "live feed" we are looking at is NOT, in fact, a live feed. It is a picture of the chamber, but not live. I can tell because the desks have nothing on them, and they are, in reality, covered with stuff, even when the Senate is not in there. I know this from several days of observing them coming and going. Also, aides and pages or whoever those random people are, are walking through all the time to drop things off or pick things up.

  • 245. Ray  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    I am 61….from Buffalo. Husband and I got married 6/25/10 in Cape Cod (Anniversary is tomorrow). After the defeat in 2009, I didn't want to wait till never. I hope it passes for those who want to be married in NY. For me personally, I am more worried abour DOMA. I culd have gotten married in Canada (15 minutes away) in 2004.

  • 246. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    We should start a twitter community! Anthony? Anon? You all on there?

  • 247. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Oh, and it is dark and grey and gloomy here in Albany, so the sunshine streaming in the windows is a LIE! :)

  • 248. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    If by fault you mean standing up for the right choice then yes so far the Repubs are at "fault.

    Lawmakers vote NO or say goodbye to your political career!

  • 249. Steve  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    You clearly know nothing about genetics and evolution – just like most Christians.
    Few alleles are dominant and many traits are multi-genetic. Hundreds of animals species with documented homosexuality are doing just fine.

    That ridiculous idea would require that gay people reproduce only with gay couple which doesn't happen – both naturally and artificially. Most gay people come from straight mothers and most kids by gay people are straight.

  • 250. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    All propagated lies by homophobic Fascists……ROTFLMGAO…."NARTH" (The National Association for Rape & Torture of Homosexuals)………FAIL on so many levels…….ok moving on….. oio…Ronnie

  • 251. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Yes they should vote no and get it over with!

  • 252. Carpool_Cookie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Here: this should have a more soothing effect…

    [youtube y8AWFf7EAc4 youtube]

  • 253. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    If there were a compelling reason, I don't discount the possibility that I could participate in homosexual acts. Prisoners do it, many whom never imagined that they would.

    There is evidence of some biological origin, but the research is clear that environment is a huge factor, as well. You know that. Up until the 1970s, researchers were trying to cure homosexuality until it was made into a political issue by the homosexuals in the APA. A shame; many a suffering child might not have to deal with what is still a difficult challenge.

  • 254. Bob  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    can we get copies of drafts ????

  • 255. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    You really have no idea how DNA works….FAIL is an understatement…… XP …..Ronnie

  • 256. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Ohhh. Naughty!

  • 257. Steve  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Marriage today is already different from 50 years ago. Let alone 100 years or even 150 years ago. To a person from the latter period it would be almost unrecognizable. Society is constantly changing and nothing is "what it always has been"

    The CC gets shit for plenty of stuff, including covering up child abuse and rape on an epic scale, being a generally regressive and outdated institution, being engaged in a passive genocide in Africa, and lying about birth control and contraceptives. It's only saving grace is that it no longer burns people at the stake, so few Catholics actually do what the Vatican says.

  • 258. DazedWheels  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Thanks for this quote, Nick!

  • 259. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Society used to encourage parents of "accidents" to do the right thing and get married. Now they celebrate the fact that a kid doesn't have a father. That's a freakin' shame.

  • 260. Waxr  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    I agree that churches should be able to practice as they believe, but the controvercy has been about church run adoption agencies which receive state money. If they can discriminate against gays, why not blacks, Jews or women?

  • 261. MFargo  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    OH. I thought they were just real tidy.

  • 262. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Yeah, that is the picture they use when it is not in session. Sometimes it is the inside of the chamber. Sometimes the stained glass. Sometimes the building at night.

  • 263. Steve  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    When you acknowledge (as all so-called ex-gay groups actually do) that someone can't simply change their sexual orientation and that it's a continued struggle, you are saying that it's not a choice, but merely repression of innate feelings and the adoption of a personality that's unnatural to that person

  • 264. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    I didn't say there was "badness" from gay behavior, so I'm not going to address that. what I will say is that heterosexual sex is of more positive and greater good consequence to society than homosexual sex.

  • 265. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Right again I am!

    You all are so predictably ignorant.

  • 266. Sam_Handwich  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Interesting short article about Sen Ruben Diaz … his divorce … and his lesbian grand daughter who was discharged under DADT…;…

  • 267. Franklin  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    The ignorance here is astounding!

  • 268. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    I don't pay taxes to the Catholic Church & there is NO American LAW that states I have to adhere to their beliefs, rules, definitions, etc. etc. etc……therefore everything you posted is MOOT!!!!!……Get a soul…. oIo….Ronnie

  • 269. 415kathleenk  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    I must say i now know far more about the inner workings of the ny state senate than i ever needed or wanted to know- i know almost nothing about the California State house procedures- except for the )(^*&()*)*)*( budget process gah.

  • 270. Steve  |  June 24, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    Yeah, should have continued to cure them with electroshock therapy and frontal lobe lobotomies

  • 271. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Ah, it wouldn't be a homosexual blog if the Nazis weren't brought in. Thanks for that. Where's the commenter who was doing virtual shots at my mention of certain words?

    Sex between heterosexuals is a powerful thing; it deserves special attention not just because it creates individuals that need to be raised, but because it affects such huge things as overpopulation and the need for governmental resources.

  • 272. 415kathleenk  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    so- democratic senators are reading texts of bills and meeting now? What about our republican friends?

  • 273. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    I guess I really should get some sort of profile on here. It's just so much work!

  • 274. Waxr  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Actually, the Constitution does not require the oath to be on the Bible.

    Arcticle 6, paragroph 3:
    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the
    several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of
    the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or
    Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be
    required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United

  • 275. aquaCA  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    You are absolutely right. Your ignorance is definitely astounding!

  • 276. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Awe…poor baby….too f@#king bad….nothing hateful…You're just another benighted troglodyte that doesn't know difference between "hate" & "defense"…..don't like what I said, don't give me a reason to say it…….Every single thing you posted is filled with hate, repugnant inhuman superiority & offensive…….. But I get it, you homophobic paps are allowed to do & say whatever you want about us because you are so FAR beyond delusional in thinking you are "morally superior" to anybody & everybody who doesn't live their lives how you want & demand….but when we return the gesture, we're "wrong"……Get the f@#k over yourself, lemon…… oIo….Ronnie

  • 277. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Everyday, at four o'clock, they have to take an hour to heap praise onto Senator Ball. If he goes 24 hours without attention, he withers and dies–as if he were a rose kept from the warming glow of the sunlight.

  • 278. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    I've no doubt that people have thought they were born that way forever. But it doesn't mean that their behavior could not be modified, and, in fact, many did/do modify their behavior. Many people who believe they were born straight modify their behavior, e.g., Catholic priests, rendering them unsexuals, or whatever you want to label them.

    I don't want to get into religious arguments here, sorry, not my thing.

  • 279. Steve  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    And all of them are miserable and depressed by doing so. Most can't do it for longer than a few years.

    Most of the founders of the so-called ex-gay movement denounce it as BS today and live openly with same-sex partners.

  • 280. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Capital Tonight retweeted the following:
    A source in the governor's office says the Big Ugly (tax cap, rent control, mandate relief) has been delivered to both chambers.

  • 281. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    I have a great life that most here would envy. I wish everyone could share in the joy of life that I experience everyday with my wife and my kids. Well, actually, they can.

    Hey you know what, I wish you could all get married and that would be the end of it. There would be a lot of happy people who are definitely not happy now. But it won't be the end of it. So those of us who recognize that will continue to fight it and educate those who are too blind to see the ramifications. Its the only way we can preserve that which, from our perspective, makes our society so great.

  • 282. Straight 4 Equality  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    I am 71 and I live in New Hampshire. I am straight and live in a state where marriage equality is a fact, so in one sense this vote won't affect me personally. And yet it will, because every step closer that we get to equality and justice for all makes this country more American. We must constantly strive to reach the goals spelled out in our founding documents.

  • 283. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    I could care less about your insignificant, worthless , meaningless "acceptance"…My family & friends give me enough emotional support…….The only other thing I care about is from the government that I pay into…because I PAID FOR IT & I AM GUARANTEED IT BY BIRTH as a tax paying American citizen & a human being… you would be wise to deal with that FACT of life & get over it…ugly troll….. XI ….Ronnie

  • 284. 415kathleenk  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    LOL okay just so i know

  • 285. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Capital Tonight retweeted the following:
    Senate spox says we'll know tonight whether they'll take up marriage; conferencing it and other issues now

  • 286. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    You are such a failure….you're an idiot…a rock is smarter then you….GO AWAY!!!…. oIo…Ronnie

  • 287. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    MAUDE!!!…. oIo ….Ronnie

  • 288. Sheryl Carver  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:15 pm


    For the sake of those of us on slow-loading & -updating mobile devices, could we continue this on a new thread, please?

    Like what was done during live blogging of the original trial?


  • 289. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    What's a hate group, anyway? You mean like the KKK? Aren't they still allowed speech rights?

    What you perceive to be hatred is someone else's perception of self preservation. Labels like that just place limits on freedom.

  • 290. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    Capital Tonight tweeted the following:
    Senate spox says GOP conference deep in #samesexmarriage debate

  • 291. Warner  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    Thanks for the update Bryce. Here is hoping that love wins out over the hatred, ignorance, and asshattery of homophobia.

  • 292. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    LOL…."ignorant"….No that would be, you worthless troll…. oIo….Ronnie

  • 293. nightshayde  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    That made me tear up, Samantha. I feel the same way about making the world that kind of place for my little girl. =)

  • 294. Warner  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Well, there is the customary 4:30 closed door circle-jerk. Just because they claim to have the moral authority (teehee, as if), doesnt mean they dont like a little afternoon rocket ride.

  • 295. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Any bets on whether or not it turns into a fist fight?

  • 296. nightshayde  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Happy Anniversary!

  • 297. Balu  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Consensus Reached on Religious Exemptions in Gay Marriage Bill

  • 298. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    GO AWAY!!!!! …… XI ….Ronnie

  • 299. LCH  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Hopefully it's about how they're going to take the vote and not about if they're going to vote.

  • 300. asiesamigo  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Brian Brown. head of NOM just sent a message to everyone of his e-mail list asking for them to send yet another message to NY Senators. If you want to counter these e-mails, you can use NOMs' form, (its easier that way). Just erase the message Brian Brown asked you to send and write your own. This may be our last chance to remind the Senators of justice, fairness and just plain common sense.

  • 301. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    No it's not, forcing people to be together who don't want to be together is NOT acceptable. The fighting & arguing is not good for children. I saw several of my friends lives be turned upside down because their religious "can't get divorced" parents fought on an hourly basis…..You're delusional & live in fantasy world….GTFU!!!!…. oIo….Roonie

  • 302. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    One tweet reads: "Big Ugly has been released".
    I say that phrase every time I go on a date!

  • 303. Steve  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    Special commentary by Keith Olbermann:

  • 304. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    Come on, Steve. That was just the therapy, by those psychiatrists that you all hold in such high esteem, at the time. Electroshock is still used successfully today for people with depression; maybe it would work for same-sex attraction. We'll never know because it's politically incorrect to suggest that some people might want to change their sexual preference. Today, you have to just accept how you are and become a victim. What injustice and destruction of hope for those who do not want to be different.

  • 305. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    Nope…more inhuman heterosexist superiority…..GO AWAY!!!…. oIo….Ronnie

  • 306. Kilgore Trout  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    I do wish everyone would please stop feeding the “Bruce” troll.

  • 307. Reformed  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    I guess Senator Diaz had too much mojo to be celibate after his divorce. How fortunate for the little jackrabbit that he isnt gay and gets to "do the do" with the approval of society after voting no. I guess that is what matters to him, not the approval of God.

  • 308. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    @TPEquality ThinkProgress LGBT
    MT @ChrisHayesNY: As I look around the #NYSenate galleries, pro- #MarriageEqualty folks outnumber opponents about 2-1.

  • 309. aquaCA  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    Rendering priests unsexual? That is so interesting and clever. Bruce, please tell us more about priests being rendered unsexual. All this sexual behavior modification thing is fascinating… and you seem to know so much about sex and stuff. Please, tell us more!

  • 310. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    @freedomtomarry freedomtomarry
    NYTimes reports: Cuomo & legislative leaders reach agreement on religious exemptions #NY4M #lgbt

  • 311. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    So much repugnant Fascist heterosexist superiority complexes….. GO AWAY!!!!….oIo…Ronnie

  • 312. asiesamigo  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Brian Brown, head of NOM just sent another letter to his e-mail list asking everyone to write yet another letter to the senators. If you'd like to counter their e-mails, you may do so by using NOM's form (it's easier that way). Just erase the letter Mr. Brown wrote for you to send and write your own.

    Friday, June 24, 2011

    Dear Marriage Supporter,

    The situation in New York is fluid and remains very urgent. I am asking for you to take action one more time, with targeted messages going to specific New York senators.

    Send an Email to NY Senators Now! Your action today could make the difference between victory and defeat.

    Shortly after yesterday's newsletter went out, the New York Senate adjourned for the evening at around 11pm ET. The Republicans are conferencing behind closed doors again today as they wrestle with the same-sex marriage bill.

    Please take a moment to send targeted messages to the 28 senators who are publicly standing for marriage, the 3 GOP swing votes, and the 3 Democratic swing votes.

    In just a few minutes, you'll be able to thank the 28 senators who have publicly announced that they will vote NO on the same-sex marriage bill, and at the same time remind them that if Governor Cuomo's same-sex marriage bill is bad for New York, there's no reason to even bring it to a floor vote.

    Under Senate procedure, the majority party is responsible to decide which bills are voted on and ultimately passed. Even President Obama opposes same-sex marriage, at least in word. Help the Republicans see that if same-sex marriage comes to New York, they are the ones who will bear responsibility – and have to answer to a Republican base that strongly opposes gay marriage.

    Specific messages will also be sent to the handful of swing votes that will shape the outcome of the bill if it does come to a vote in the full Senate. If you have the time, take a moment to personalize these messages to communicate your personal concern over the outcome of this bill.

    Click here to send your message now! [Go to URL in message that follows]

    Back to the fight! We'll keep you posted.
    Brian Brown

    Brian Brown

    Brian S. Brown
    National Organization for Marriage

  • 313. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    There are not enough words…… 8 / ….Ronnie

  • 314. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    I am headed over in 1/2 hour to see if I can get into the gallery for the debate on the Big Ugly, and listen to them do that for five hours, then NOT get to the vote I care about again.

    OK… no… well, I hope not, anyway. I am having a relatively bad day here at work, so I am getting grumpy. I will be better soon.

  • 315. nightshayde  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Hee hee — think of it as something to do while you wait … and wait … and wait …

    … and wait some more.

  • 316. asiesamigo  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    That URL is:….

  • 317. Bryce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    Hey anon, do you have a minute?

  • 318. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!…….OMGrain…..sweet corn….SWEET CORN!!!!!…………. XP…Ronnie

  • 319. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    I don't think that's true, Steve. You know, married couples take a vow to alter their sexual behavior to just one person; that's a huge deal that many people take on and live happily. And many married people end up not having much sex at all, another huge behavior change. So, I'm not sure why those people giving up homosexual sex would have such misery and depression, especially with all of the positive things that one gets from living in a society of mostly heterosexuals.

    I know of one founder who lives openly with same-sex partners, but that doesn't mean his whole movement was wrong or bad. They have many success stories posted and probably many more successes from people who'd rather not talk about those bad ol' days.

  • 320. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    Spits orange juice everywhere…… XP `, ` ……Ronnie

  • 321. Ann S.  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    There's a new thread!

  • 322. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    Ronnie – You spend a lot of time here. Do you really pay taxes? And if you do, I can't imagine that whomever you work for (unless you work for this blog) would be happy with your job performance.

    You have equal rights, Ronnie. Go find a girl and get married, just like I did. It's fabulous, and you can have your own kids and a living legacy.

  • 323. DazedWheels  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Thanks a bunch for the heads up, Ann!!

  • 324. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    150 years ago men were married to women. The roles might be different within the marriage, but the marriage itself – the commitment to stay together for life between a man and a woman and take responsibility for their offspring – is identical.

  • 325. Billy  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Waiting and watching in Tennessee. Do the right thing NY Senate – bring it to a vote and approve it!

  • 326. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    There is not one ounce of decent humanity coming out of you in anything in that statement….You are so far beyond disgusting I can't even find the word to describe you….What the f@#k is wrong you?…..rhetorical….Go away…. :-& ….Ronnie

  • 327. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    No, I'm saying that it's harder for some people to give up drinking than it is for others. Some people have personalities that render it more difficult for them to change their behavior. Others just do it. We treat alcoholism, we don't tell alcoholics to embrace their behavior. Sometimes it's a lifelong struggle of recovery.

    Are people born alcoholics? There's surely a biological component and an environmental component. IF you've never had a drink, you'll never become one.

  • 328. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    GO AWAY!…… XI …Ronnie

  • 329. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Nope….unions are for workers…Marriage is forever…copyright ~ Ronnie

  • 330. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Troll….. XI …Ronnie

  • 331. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    That's a lie…..MAUDE!!!…. 8 / ….Ronnie

  • 332. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    We do…..MAUDE!!!! ….. 8 / ….Ronnie

  • 333. Bruce  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    Ah, yes, I couldn't agree more. Sweet corn! (What language are you speaking?)

  • 334. Waxr  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    Again: If you use the NOM form, be sure to change the "NO" in the subject line to a "YES". Often the staff just looks at the e-mail to see if it is for or against. Politicians often ignore form letters, so use your own wording in the text.

  • 335. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    Leaving in two minutes…. talk fast! :)

  • 336. AnonyGrl  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    OK… Bryce… when I get over there, I will txt LLB, have her come in here, you can talk to her and get your question to me? I know… silly, but I have no other communication there… and I am reluctant to post my phone with Franklin and possibly others lurking.

  • 337. Jpk020  |  June 24, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Ok I have to comment! Bruce your angst to our community stems from your wife depriving you of anal sex and blow jobs? I know it's great but sheesh you don't have to take your sexual frustrations out on our families!

  • 338. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    Become a "victim" by the sociopaths that soulless people like you enable to advocate mass murder of LGBT people, harass & bully LGBT kids, physically attack us while walking across a bridge holding hands, attaching nooses & rainbows flags that were set on fire to doors of LGBT community centers, burning down the barn of & killing a gay man's entire livestock, harassing little 9yo girls who support Equality, treating our families as inferior & with disrespect, shooting a a gay teen in the head at point blank range because he gave you a valentine, smashing a gay soldier in the head several times with a baseball bat while he sleeps, doing the same to a Navaho boy with a huge rock, throwing glass bottles at our heads, the list goes on forever…….

    Yeah LGBT people become "victims" because of soulless, inhuman people like you…..GET A SOUL…. XI …..Ronnie

  • 339. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH….so worthless…. 8 / ….Ronnie

  • 340. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    HA!!!…no thank you….Get a soul….. 8 / ….Ronnie

  • 341. Xandoz  |  June 24, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    aSexual "equipment" ?? Really?? Why is always all about sex with you "traditionalists"? I am a woman and my attraction to women is least off all my preference for a vagina. I fall in love with women, feel emotionally connected to them, and I like to express that attachment through sex and love-making.

    P.s. you might want to explain to your "ex-gay" friends that marriage and kids isn't an inherent heterosexual trait. Family and gay are not mutually exclusive.

  • 342. Straight 4 Equality  |  June 24, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Happy anniversary!

  • 343. JonT  |  June 24, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    Heh, there we go. :)

    Sorry guys, I played with the trolls yesterday, it's someone else's turn :)

  • 344. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    Nope….I don't have equal rights….Straight people marry Straight people….Gay people marry Gay people….but we can't, in some places, because you have a selfish issue with controlling that aspect of OUR lives.

    I have my own business, not going to talk to you about it because it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!

    My marriage to a man will be fabulous (sooooo much I could say right now) & we will have children & you have no say in the matter. You will learn to deal with the existence of our families & you really need to stop disrespecting them, your parents should have raised you better. I would not have sex with a female even if you held a gun to my head. I will leave a living legacy, not just in my work, or my philanthropy, but in my children as well. It's called surrogacy & adoption you uneducated moron. Get over it, you ignorant waste……GTFU!…. oIo …Ronnie

  • 345. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    OMGAHHHHHHHHHH….GO THE F@#K AWAY!!!! you ignorant trash…. XI ….Ronnie

  • 346. Ronnie  |  June 24, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    You're an Idiot….. 8 / …Ronnie

  • 347. davep  |  June 24, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    Yeah, but once you get started, Look out !! : )

    Awesome letter, nightshayde. Thank you!

  • 348. Marcos  |  June 24, 2011 at 7:43 pm


  • 349. fiona64  |  June 27, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Franklin, I wouldn't be opining on what other people know or feel if I were you. It would be a real shame if one of us held up the mirror to *you,* wouldn't it …

    'Cause I'm beginning to wonder why you're so obsessed with Ronnie.

  • 350. fiona64  |  June 27, 2011 at 8:54 am

    NARTH is to actual science as USAToday is to actual journalism.

    BTW, LeVay and Whitehead have BOTH told NARTH to stop misquoting their scientific research.

    So, yeah. You had better believe we're focusing on the source.

    Here's the actual LeVay research, BTW, which shows the differences in hypothalamus glands between gay and straight men (cadaver studies).

    I've provided numerous other sources already, Franklin. It's hardly my fault if you fail to comprehend them.

  • 351. fiona64  |  June 27, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Bruce, you're a liar. Period.

    Prove that my gay friends (and I., who happen to be straight — as I have informed you repeatedly) want to "destroy society" You're so full of crap that it's not even funny.

    BTW, I don't know that I'd be citing "information" from a group that the Southern Poverty Law Center has called out as a hate organization on a par with the KKK if I were trying to make anything like a cogent point.

  • 352. fiona64  |  June 27, 2011 at 9:08 am

    Here you go, Bruce:

    If that's the kind of company you wish to keep, knock yourself out; I'd rather not stand on that side of history.

  • 353. fiona64  |  June 27, 2011 at 9:08 am

    The same could be said of you, Bruce. What's your obsession with a) Ronnie and b) denying rights to people? And would your boss approve? Ronnie owns his own business; are you jealous?

  • 354. fiona64  |  June 27, 2011 at 9:11 am

    I was born in 1964. At the beginning of my lifetime, it had "always been" that people of different ethnicities were not allowed to marry. When I was three years old, that changed. My father gave away the bride at a wedding when I was 8, five years after Loving v. Virginia. His African-American student was marrying a Caucasian woman, and her parents refused to attend the wedding because "it was just wrong, and there was on reason she couldn't marry a white man."

    This is identical, BTW, to the asinine arguments you are making when you say that there is no reason for a gay man or lesbian not to marry someone of the opposite sex. Except, of course, that BOTH parties in the marriage would be miserable.

    So, what was it you were saying again about how marriage had always been the same during our lifetimes?

  • 355. fiona64  |  June 27, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Ah, the "I don't like how you talked to me" version of the argument. Dude, seriously — why should Ronnie (or anyone else) sit there and make nice with you when all you deliver is a combination of condescending bullshit and bigotry? Please, do enlighten me.

  • 356. fiona64  |  June 27, 2011 at 9:17 am

    The only reason Lee Liberace wasn't burned at the stake is that we don't do that in this country anymore (I'm sure, Bruce, that you are disappointed by that).

    As a pianist, I would be delighted if any child of mine were the next Liberace. He was a musical genius. But I guess that's overshadowed in your mind by the fact that he slept with men. I pity you for your small-mindedness, Bruce; if it wasn't for a gay man (Baron von Steubing), we'd all be singing "God Save the Queen" as our national anthem. Look him up yourself, BTW; I'm tired of casting pearls before swine.

  • 357. fiona64  |  June 27, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Bruce, I have no idea what you're asking me. What do you mean by "stirring the pot"? Demanding equal protection under the law?

    I'll bet you think that African-Americans should have been content with being able to sit wherever they wished on the bus, don't you?


  • 358. Ozymandias71  |  June 27, 2011 at 9:22 am

    Funny, but the only ones 'stirring the pot' are the anti-Gay activists with their continued hyperbole. The Marriage Equality Act has plenty of protections for religious groups to continue discriminating, but that isn't enough for them – as continued 'destruction of marriage' statements from the Catholic Church hierarchy prove.

  • 359. fiona64  |  June 27, 2011 at 9:22 am


    Franklin, do you even look at the things you write?

    BTW, it's not bigotry to call out bigotry — it's reality.

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