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Idaho asks Supreme Court to take up same-sex marriage challenge

LGBT Legal Cases Marriage equality Marriage Equality Trials

Two new petitions have been filed in the Supreme Court asking the Justices to consider a sixth case for review this term. The governor of Idaho, Butch Otter, and state officials have filed separate requests to review Latta v. Otter, the Ninth Circuit decision striking down the state’s same-sex marriage ban.

The filings note that the state had asked the Ninth Circuit back in October to rehear the case with an 11-judge panel. The appeals court hasn’t taken any action on that request yet.

The petitions point to several reasons the Idaho case is different from the other five petitions currently awaiting the January 9 conference: they note that there were three separate opinions filed in the case articulating different theories, although the panel was unanimous in result. They also suggest that the Idaho case is the “only” case to specifically argue for upholding the bans based on a “religious strife” argument.

Governor Otter has previously asked the Supreme Court to hold off on granting review in a case until the Idaho petitions are filed.

Even so, the Supreme Court will take its first look at marriage cases from Tennessee, Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, and Louisiana on January 9. They could decide to review any or all of those cases after taking their first look, or they could “relist” them for an upcoming conference, where they would take a second look. It takes four votes to grant review.

It’s not yet clear when the Idaho case will be ready for conference.

Thanks to Equality Case Files for these filings


  • 1. brandall  |  January 2, 2015 at 2:14 pm

    It is now Friday, 1/2 5:00 PM in Florida. I have two observations:

    1) Pareto v Rubin hearing to lift Judge Zabel's stay is Monday at 11:00 am. It will be interesting to see if (based on Hinkle's actions), she lifts the stay and then we watch to see what Bondi tries next (if anything) at the State court level.

    2) Contrary to lots of media statements, Bondi has not capitulated or given up. She has only publicly stated "My office will not stand in the way as clerks of court determine how to proceed." She has not said she is withdrawing the state's appeal to the 11th AC or is ceasing any further action in any of the Florida District Court cases. She is out of runway and is crashing and burning when it comes to ME starting Tuesday, but she and Scott can follow Otter from Idaho and continue to spend waste taxpayer's money.

  • 2. sfbob  |  January 2, 2015 at 2:43 pm

    In my estimation it's highly unlikely that SCOTUS will grant Idaho's request. But of course that's just a guess.

    The grounds on which Idaho's marriage equality ban was struck down are entirely consistent with Ninth Circuit precedent. The circuit court's ruling was unanimous. It did not create any sort of conflict with anything other than Butch Otter's homophobia.

  • 3. flyerguy77  |  January 2, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    1) Pareto v Rubin hearing to lift Judge Zabel's stay was today at 11:00 am. I can find no media reports on what happened in the hearing, but I assume she will issue something prior to next Tuesday, 1/6/15.

    The hearing is on Monday not today…

  • 4. DrBriCA  |  January 2, 2015 at 3:10 pm

    Agreed. It would be most gratifying to see SCOTUS deny cert. on this request in a few weeks' time (even while it schedules the hearing on the current cases at hand) and officially make the 9th Circuit decision as final as the 4/7/10 Circuit decisions.

    Other than his fervent desire to keep the appeal going as long as possible before time runs out, I don't see how adding Idaho into the mix actually helps his homophobic cause. SCOTUS is unlikely to stay the Latta decision now that it's been in effect for over two months, even if it takes up the case. And with the current schedule for conferences, Latta wouldn't get scheduled until likely next term. If SCOTUS did hold off on the 6th Circuit cases + LA until Idaho was fully ready, then the decision wouldn't come likely until June 2016, at which time Idaho would then have had more than 1.5 years of marriage equality! Better to let the other cases get argued now while he lets the 9th circuit keep his en banc panel appeal alive but unanswered.

  • 5. brandall  |  January 2, 2015 at 3:18 pm

    Thanks. Duh. That's my 2nd "palm to forehead" today. I corrected it since there were no replies under my comment.

  • 6. Sagesse  |  January 2, 2015 at 3:28 pm

    It took a while to fully register… the Florida clarification is just another state falling into line, right?

    Well, for one thing, Florida is the fourth largest state. 2015 was not even a day old when the number of ME states increased to 36 and the % of the US population living in ME states went to 72%. That's a powerful statement going into the SCOTUS conference on Jan 9.

    And somewhat related, we all owe a giant thank you note not only to Judge Hinkle, but also the staff at the district court who worked their New Year's holiday to get the ruling out. After all, what harm would have been done if they just came in to work as usual and got it out today? Someone clearly thought it was important, tho :).

  • 7. brandall  |  January 2, 2015 at 3:48 pm

    Otter's filing with SCOTUS. After reading it, this is a shotgun approach plea to SCOTUS. They produced a 31-page laundry list of items, every one of them a wrong ruling by the 9th AC. They’re hoping SCOTUS will grant cert on anything, anywhere in their plea….Baker not mentioned in Windsor, harm to children, heightened scrutiny, religious separation, and the best one….we’ve been doing it since way for over 150 years and see no reason to change now.

    And then I have to read this garbage:

    "But there is no evidence that these laws, which can be traced back to the Civil War era and were merely codified in recent decades, were designed to discriminate against them."


    "as fewer heterosexual parents embrace the biological connection norm, more of their children will be raised without a mother or a father—usually a father. That in turn will mean more children of heterosexuals raised in poverty, doing poorly in school, experiencing psychological or emotional problems, and committing crimes —all at significant cost to the State."

    Yup, my gay marriage is leading to fatherless, homeless, uneducated, mentally unstable children who are robbing banks. But they're not discriminating against gays by saying this? Makes my blood boil.

  • 8. F_Young  |  January 2, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    DrBriCA: "Agreed. It would be most gratifying to see SCOTUS deny cert. on this request in a few weeks' time…"

    Correct me if I'm wrong on this, since I'm getting confused by all these cases and their various rationales, but wouldn't Idaho be the only case before SCOTUS that was decided on the basis of heightened scrutiny?

    If so, that might be a good enough reason for SCOTUS to grant cert even if the case is not fully briefed. However, I don't know if we really want to push the broad heightened scrutiny argument (not limited to marriage), in case it it rejected because too many anti-gay dominoes would fall if it were accepted by the majority.

  • 9. Mike_Baltimore  |  January 2, 2015 at 3:59 pm

    The US Census Bureau last week (I believe) announced that Florida's population had surpassed New York's, thus Florida is now the 3rd largest, by population, state.

    And Florida doesn't get ME until January 6 (Tuesday). It's similar to Maryland, where the voters approved ME on November 6, 2012 (by not overturning a legislative bill signed by the Governor in March), but ME didn't arrive in MD until January 1, 2013.

    As of 'the end of the day' January 5, though, you are correct (especially the comment about the workers at the District Court).

  • 10. brandall  |  January 2, 2015 at 4:04 pm

    SCOTUS won't go near heightened scrutiny if it can avoid it. ME is quite enough for them to deal with in the less than 2 years since Windsor. I'm not saying that's fair, but I believe they will want to deal with this in another year.

  • 11. hopalongcassidy  |  January 2, 2015 at 4:23 pm

    An otter is just a weasel that learned to swim…

  • 12. brandall  |  January 2, 2015 at 4:52 pm

    Where did you ferret out that little ditty?

  • 13. StraightDave  |  January 2, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    I see where Otter has now ditched his trusty sidekick, Monte Neil Stewart, in favor of the UT loser, Gene Schaerr, whose resume states "failed to attract SCOTUS attention to an ME case from the mother of all anti-LGBT states :)".

    Seems like a good choice, Butch, someone who's got a cost/benefit ratio approaching infinity. Stupid is as stupid does. It sure doesn't take much to get elected Governor these days, does it.

  • 14. sfbob  |  January 2, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    Latta was, I believe, decided in part on the basis of heightened scrutiny and in part on the basis of a violation of due process involving infringement of a fundamental right. If I'm not mistaken the appeals court upheld the decision on Latta and on Sevcik on multiple grounds as well. So the decisions would still stand even if justification for using heightened scrutiny were found wanting.

    In any case, even if a rational basis standard were to be applied, all of the possible arguments supporting that approach have already been dealt with and discarded in Windsor. You should recall as well that Perry v Schwartzenegger was decided entirely on rational basis, the Ninth Circuit's ruling in SmithKline Beecham not yet having been issued and STILL a law banning marriage equality within the Ninth Circuit was struck down. Because the Supreme Court concluded that the proponents of Prop 8 did not have the right to appeal Judge Walker's ruling that ruling is still a valid one.

  • 15. David_Midvale_UT  |  January 2, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    Rank and file Mormons should be ASHAMED that Gene Shaerr's name is associated with this latest garbage. When the history of marriage equality is written, Mormons will have to explain to future generations why their leaders initiated and perpetuated behavior that precisely matches a college-level psychology text book definition of bigotry.

  • 16. davepCA  |  January 2, 2015 at 5:56 pm

    Daaang, Brandall! I had no idea you and your husband were such powerful evil geniuses!
    Next you'll be demanding one meeeeeellion dollars from those straight couples who are so worried about what you guys will do to their marriages! : )

    Yes, that kind of blatant dishonesty and crazy sky-is-falling rhetoric is extremely annoying. But at this point, when it's in something like a SCOTUS brief I think it actually benefits our side.

  • 17. David_Midvale_UT  |  January 2, 2015 at 5:59 pm


  • 18. Zack12  |  January 2, 2015 at 6:16 pm

    Someone should ask Gov. Otter and Gene Shaerr about how Otter traded his first wife in for a younger model and what effects that has on society.

  • 19. David_Midvale_UT  |  January 2, 2015 at 6:28 pm

    Marriage is sacred except when it isn't.

  • 20. Zack12  |  January 2, 2015 at 6:50 pm

    It really boggles my mind that people say these things about our marriages and expect us to be nice and polite when responding in kind.

  • 21. David_Midvale_UT  |  January 2, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    The principle that Jesus called the Second Greatest Commandment only applies to their “white and delightsome” neighbors.

  • 22. ijsnyder  |  January 2, 2015 at 8:13 pm

    Does anyone know anything about this? I don't like the sound of it, but I know that sometimes we encounter these administrative shufflings and then get a good outcome anyway. Here's to the best!

  • 23. Zack12  |  January 2, 2015 at 8:21 pm

    IMO, it means we will be getting equal rights through SCOTUS and not the State Supreme Court.
    All the court watchers there have said they have never seen another case where it was delayed like this.
    Bottom line, the judges let the legislators scare them from doing their jobs and shame on them.

  • 24. DrBriCA  |  January 2, 2015 at 8:24 pm

    I agree with brandall and SFBob. I was just reading "Flagrant Conduct," a book about the Lawrence v. Texas case, and the lawyers back then were astute enough to know that this Court is squeamish about taking on too much at once in a topic. They purposefully avoided heightened scrutiny defenses as well as references to marriage rights since they wanted the court to hone in on the sodomy laws & right to privacy. The idea was that the Court likes to 'catch up with the nation' on a topic (most states had already dropped sodomy laws) rather than 'lead the nation' on a controversial topic. Just these past two years, we've seen the court pass over the Prop 8 case to address the standing issues (although this did help get rid of pointless intervenors in Oregon, Pennsylvania, and Nevada) and issue multiple rulings on stays without any comment. Even the cert. denials in October (despite both sides wanting review) show how much SCOTUS wanted to avoid this topic head on.

    Also, from what I've read here, Justice Kennedy is not super keen on the level of scrutiny classifications, and so forcing him to specifically address this in an opinion (after he side-stepped it in Romer, Lawrence, and Windsor) might be pushing it.

    It's annoying that we have to kept attaining our rights in increments, but even the SmithKline ruling showed that savvy courts can read between the lines with how the justices are deciding these important issues.

  • 25. Wolf of Raging Fires  |  January 2, 2015 at 8:30 pm

    Ferrets can swim. They have webbed feet. I play with my ferrets' webbed toes all the time because I think they're adorable!

  • 26. RnL2008  |  January 2, 2015 at 10:18 pm

    And SCOTUS has avoided dealing with heighten scrutiny in just about every case involving the rights of Gays and Lesbians…….I seriously doubt that practice will change here.

    As for the Governor and AG basically using tired, worn out and losing arguments on the whole "if we deny Gays and Lesbians" the right to marry will somehow make opposite-sex couples responsible in ANY way is NOT going to make SCOTUS happy……..because the arguments are totally irrelevant. Denying one right will NOT make the other more ANYTHING and frankly, if they had a viable argument, why HAVEN'T they used it by now…….because, they DON'T have one……and the States are NOT being denied their right to define marriage……what they are being told is that WITHOUT a compelling reason or interest, the State CAN'T put specific gender restrictions on one's right to marry.

    My take on this issue is this…..either MARRIAGE is truly a Fundamental right for ALL regardless of gender make-up or it's NOT a fundamental right and somehow, I DON'T see SCOTUS overturning the other 14 cases that have dealt with marriage specifically in the past!!!

    And with specifics back regarding to Idaho……..Gay and Lesbian Couples have been getting married there for almost 3 full months months……in my opinion SCOTUS AIN'T gonna touch that State's appeal.

  • 27. F_Young  |  January 3, 2015 at 2:53 am

    Thanks for your replies, brandall, sfbob, DrBriCA and RnL2008.

    So, it seems that there would be no advantage to us for SCOTUS to grant certiorari in the Idaho case.

    The best we can hope for is for SCOTUS to deny cert in the Idaho case (and any other new petitions this month), and the distant second best would be for SCOTUS to keep re-listing it until it issues its decision on the chosen 6th circuit case(s) in June, at which point it would grant cert and remand the Idaho case with directions to review it according to its decision on the chosen 6th circuit case(s).

  • 28. F_Young  |  January 3, 2015 at 3:12 am

    ijsnyder: "Does anyone know anything about this? I don't like the sound of it,"

    I am disappointed, and rather angry. As noted in the article, a same-sex child visitation case is also affected in the same way. (The only other affected case, over a financial transaction, could be explained by the fact that it was submitted so recently, on December 11).

    It's hard to believe that any other group would be treated like this, but it was apparently decided that it's good enough for us.

  • 29. micha1976  |  January 3, 2015 at 5:12 am

    No, the 9th Circuit decided unanimously that a ban on same-sex marriage violates the equal protection clause because after Smithkline heightened scrutiny applies. The author concurred with his own opinion (Reinhardt?), saying that the ban also violates the due process clause. Another judge (Berzon?) concurred and said that heightened scrutiny also applies because the ban is a sex discrimination.

  • 30. Marriage Equality Round-U&hellip  |  January 3, 2015 at 6:42 am

    […] USA, Idaho: Governor Butch Otter is petitioning the US Supreme Court to hear the state’s marriage equality case. full story […]

  • 31. Raga  |  January 3, 2015 at 7:22 am

    Way too late, Bondi is informing the Eleventh that taste won't file a reply brief, and that the appeal may be submitted to the court:

    Is she waiving oral argument too then? I've seen the language "submitted to the court" used only at the end of oral argument by the presiding judge in a panel, or, when a panel orders that they have enough information/clarity from the briefs to go along with that they don't think oral argument is necessary, and the case would be submitted without oral argument.

  • 32. Sagesse  |  January 3, 2015 at 7:35 am

    Not sure whether this is being taken seriously… First Things is one of the 'fringier' fringe religious publications:

    Gay Marriage Prompts Call for Clergy to Shun Civil Ceremonies [New York Times]

    "In its December issue, the conservative Christian magazine First Things published “The Marriage Pledge,” by Christopher Seitz and Ephraim Radner, both Episcopal priests and theologians who teach at Wycliffe College in Toronto. The pledge commits clergy members not to sign “government-provided marriage certificates.” Its online version has attracted 370 signers."

  • 33. Steve84  |  January 3, 2015 at 7:36 am

    Fun fact: his first wife's name was "Gay". That makes them "Gay and Butch Otter"

  • 34. Steve27516  |  January 3, 2015 at 7:36 am

    Very interesting, Raga!
    Btw, it looks like autocorrect did something odd to your first sentence: I'm guessing you wrote "the state won't file" or "she won't file" – ? Posting this reply *not* as a reply, so you can edit, if you want.
    Thank you, buddy!

  • 35. Steve27516  |  January 3, 2015 at 7:40 am

    I love gay and butch otters!

  • 36. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 3, 2015 at 7:59 am

    Correct on the statement that Florida now just lags California and Texas in terms of population:

    Several country clerks will open their offices at 12:01am ET on Tuesday, January 6, 2015, in order to issue marriage licenses to couples (opposite or same gender couples). Never understood the 12:01am vs. 12:00am significance, but 60 seconds shouldn't matter.

  • 37. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 3, 2015 at 8:12 am

    I assume the AGs office can only handle a matter at a time, so once they were done reading Hinkle's clarifying of the order, they finally got around to remembering their reply brief was due to the 11CA and took the time to carefully construct this letter and submit it.

    I doubt she knows what submitted to the court means in the way you are saying it. I can't imagine no oral argument in this instance, although as I've said before, I think the clerk will be waiting to hear results from the SCOTUS conferences in January before issuing a date for orals on this, as once cert is granted, this case gets put on hold.

  • 38. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 3, 2015 at 8:14 am

    Well I guess I screwed the pooch on that one by replying! Oops, so sorry. I'd concur with you, as the link to the letter Raga supplied (love how he gets those and provides them here!) indicates the state of Florida, in all of our glorious wisdom, has nothing else to add.

  • 39. Steve27516  |  January 3, 2015 at 8:28 am

    Poor pooch.
    Thanks, Ryan –

  • 40. Eric  |  January 3, 2015 at 8:38 am

    You act like this is something new for the Mormons.

  • 41. Elihu_Bystander  |  January 3, 2015 at 8:50 am

    From the previous Florida thread, concerning the discussion on counties discontinuing all optional celebrations. Among the very conservative panhandle counties, Brenner wrote: “Santa Rosa and Okaloosa have joined them…”

    My Florida experience was with the Navy in Pensacola and Escambia County (1973-77). I am happy to report that Pam Childers Clerk of the Court for Escambia County will indeed be offering the optional celebration. Office staff told me they would be updating their web site to let every one know, although they had not done so by COB on Friday.

  • 42. brandall  |  January 3, 2015 at 9:30 am

    My Mac autocorrect does not understand "en banc" ….. hence, it produces this sentence:

    9th Circuit Court of Appeals Agrees to Review Ruling in Bank.

  • 43. scream4ever  |  January 3, 2015 at 9:59 am

    Another option is requesting for the 8th Circuit to lift the stay, especially if they do the same with Missouri.

  • 44. franklinsewell  |  January 3, 2015 at 10:10 am

    Hmm… This scared me. What ruling did they agree to review en banc?

  • 45. Zack12  |  January 3, 2015 at 10:10 am

    Not holding my breath with the 8th circuit.
    That court was already hostile terrority to LGBT folks and George W's seven judges to that court have made it even more so.

  • 46. Wolf of Raging Fires  |  January 3, 2015 at 11:20 am

    Latta maybe? No one seems to have responded to your question yet, Franklin…

  • 47. Mike_Baltimore  |  January 3, 2015 at 11:43 am

    Almost all people understand that 11:59 am is 60 seconds prior to Noon. And that 11:59 pm is 60 seconds prior to Midnight. That means 12:00 am is Noon, or is it Midnight?

    To eliminate confusion about whether 12:00 am is midnight or noon, 12:01 am or pm is the term used. (Techinically, it could be 12:00:01 am to indicate one second after midnight, but most people only go to the minute and most documents only allow for 2 digigts prior, and 2 digits, after the colon.)

    Also consider this:
    Strictly speaking, it is actually incorrect to use "am" and "pm" when referring to noon or midnight (12:00). The abbreviation a.m. stands for ante meridiem or before noon and p.m. stands for post meridiem or after noon.

    And the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST) ways:
    "Are noon and midnight referred to as 12 a.m. or 12 p.m.?

    "This is a tricky question because 12 a.m. and 12 p.m. are ambiguous and should not be used.

    "To illustrate this, consider that "a.m." and "p.m." are abbreviations for "ante meridiem" and "post meridiem," which mean "before noon" and "after noon," respectively. Since noon is neither before noon nor after noon, a designation of either a.m. or p.m. is incorrect. Also, midnight is both twelve hours before noon and twelve hours after noon.

    "It is fair to say, however, that the shortest measurable duration after noon should be designated as p.m. For example, it would be applicable for a digital clock changing from 11:59:59 a.m. to 12:00:00 to indicate p.m. as soon as it the 12:00 appears, and not delay the display of the p.m. by a minute, or even a second. The same is true for midnight, but there is an added issue of which day midnight refers to (see below).

    "Hours of operation for a business or other references to a block of time should also follow this designation rule. For example, a business might be open on Saturdays from 8 a.m. to noon or weekends from 3:30 p.m. until midnight.
    ( )

    NIST also discusses whether midnight is the end of a day or the beginning of a day on that site.

    Thus to end confustion among most people, the term 12:01 am is used to inform people that at 1 minute after midnight, this or that will happen.

  • 48. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 3, 2015 at 11:55 am

    Thank you for that educational post! I will be using Noon and Midnight henceforth instead of 12:00pm and 12:00am respectively.

    I'd therefore like it to be 12:00:01 am that the count clerk office opens! :)

  • 49. hopalongcassidy  |  January 3, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    I'm pretty sure the convention of 12:00 a.m. is understood by virtually everyone to mean midnight, although it admittedly is intrinsically somewhat confusing. Also it would make no sense to open a government office at one minute past noon on a business day, nobody would imagine that to be the first minute of a new day/date.

  • 50. SoCal_Dave  |  January 3, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    Agree, they *should* explain. But since they still haven't yet explained their past racism, it's unlikely to happen any time soon.

  • 51. franklinsewell  |  January 3, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    I don't think so … nothing in PACER

  • 52. josejoram  |  January 3, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    In other (ridiculous) news:
    So, these folks not only hate gays but they hate also separation of powers, and checks and balances.

  • 53. franklinsewell  |  January 3, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    What's so odd about these petitions for writ of cert from Idaho is that there is likely no way that, even if granted (a big if), they would be heard this term. These people are just so ridiculous. Governor Otter is just intentionally wanting the court to delay taking up ME this term. What an asshole.

  • 54. brandall  |  January 3, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    The top of this thread pointed out how "auto correct" can be troublesome. I was merely pointing out what happens when I type "en banc" and miss the fact it was autocorrected to "in bank"…..

  • 55. franklinsewell  |  January 3, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    Whew … I thought 9CA actually went and did something crazy.

  • 56. brandall  |  January 3, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    Just Filed…1/3/15…New Weekend Reading….Florida…Pareto v Rubin, Plaintiff's Response to Ruvin's Motion.

    Clerk Ruvin filed earlier in the week for a clarification of State District Judge Zabel's stay. This was filed prior to Hinkle's New Year's gift. In light of Hinkle's 1/1/15 clarification, the Plaintiff's are requesting Zabel lift the stay in the case and therefore free Miami-Dade county clerks from any "confusion."

    Judge Zabel will follow Judge Shea from Orange County and relieve the clerk of any possible "criminal proceedings," but unlike Shay's simple declaratory judgment, Zabel should lift the stay. Then we can all watch what Bondi does or doesn't do.

  • 57. brandall  |  January 3, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    Three interesting and helpful articles on Florida ME as of this weekend:

    1) Nice overview and summary of how ME was won in only 18 months. From the Miami-Herald (but, they mix-up Brenner and the ACLU's efforts):

    2) Tampa Tribune article that the next legal "confusion" is going to be over same-sex divorce:

    3) Wrong wing (I hate saying Right Wing because there is nothing "right" about them) Breitbart News article that tell us what the Liberty Counsel is saying (and IMHO feeding to Bondi):

  • 58. Sagesse  |  January 3, 2015 at 2:49 pm

    9 pages of reasons to 'Lift the stay because… obvious". A sweet read.

  • 59. sfbob  |  January 3, 2015 at 2:54 pm

    They also appear to hate the First Amendment. The bill in fact does nothing since clergy already cannot be required to solemnize any marriage they don't want to solemnize.

  • 60. DrBriCA  |  January 3, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    What's even more ridiculous is that SCOTUS is not likely going to place a new hold on the Latta decision now that ME has been occurring for nearly three months, so delaying a final ruling until next term (possibly June 2016) just guarantees ME in his state for up to a full year & a half!

  • 61. Steve84  |  January 3, 2015 at 3:05 pm


  • 62. Wolf of Raging Fires  |  January 3, 2015 at 3:11 pm

    I don't even want to know where you were going with that…

  • 63. bythesea66  |  January 3, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    Me too! 😛

  • 64. VIRick  |  January 3, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    OMG! Unreal!!

  • 65. Sagesse  |  January 3, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    The county clerk in Duval county refuses to officiate weddings, so….

    Jacksonville Lawyer Comes To The Rescue After Anti-Gay Florida Clerk Throws A Tantrum [New Civil Rights Movement]

    "Beginning January 9, (Florida has a three day waiting period) [the] law firm, Plata Schott Attorneys & Counselors at Law, will marry same-sex couples at their offices, about four blocks from the courthouse, for that same $30 fee."

  • 66. VIRick  |  January 3, 2015 at 5:05 pm

    Although there is no authoritative list of the Florida counties that have stopped offering courthouse civil weddings, the counties that confirmed their decisions to the "Tampa Bay Times" include: Santa Rosa, Okaloosa, Holmes, Washington, Jackson, Calhoun, Liberty, Franklin, Wakulla, Baker, Clay, Duval, and Pasco. According to Bay County's website, it no longer offers marriage ceremonies, though it's unclear when that policy was changed.

    To this growing list, from an earlier post I made here, we can also add Levy and Union Counties, making 16 in all. Ten of these counties are in the Panhandle, four are in the northeast, and two are on the gulf coast north of Tampa.

    I'm elated to hear that Escambia County (Pensacola), right on the border with Alabama, is continuing to offer the optional civil wedding ceremony.

    So is Nassau County, in the opposite corner, right on the border with Georgia. On the Nassau County Clerk's website, John A. Crawford, clerk, has posted an extended press release which contains a wonderful pro-marriage legal summary of recent events, and includes this direct slap at the clerks of both Duval and Clay counties for their withdrawal of the long-standing, and quite popular, civil wedding ceremony service:

    "For as long as anyone can remember, legally-eligible couples making application for either a license to marry or requesting that the clerk's office perform a civil wedding ceremony have been provided those services with dignity, professionalism, and utmost courtesy in Nassau County. I believe that as a constitutional officer and as an officer of the court, it is my duty to uphold both the letter and the spirit of the law, to serve every citizen who lawfully seeks our services."

    Nassau County hasn't forgotten its proud history at the forward edge of Florida desegregation efforts during the Civil Rights era, and has no intention of changing course now.

    Nassau County Clerk of Court
    76347 Veteran's Way Suite 456.
    Yulee, Florida 32097
    toll-free 800-958-3496

    Escambia County Clerk of Court
    190 W Government St.
    Pensacola, FL 32502
    (850) 595-4300

    Escambia County Branch Office
    7500 N Century Blvd
    Century, FL 32535
    (850) 256-6161

    Out-of-staters from Alabama, Georgia, and elsewhere should be reminded that they have no waiting period between the issuance of a Florida marriage license and the date of the wedding. The 3-day wait only applies to Florida residents who haven't done the pre-marital course (which also gives them a cost discount) or otherwise obtained a waiver.

  • 67. RnL2008  |  January 3, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    Hi Fellow EoT's,
    I've been having issues with the site not loading on and off for a couple of days now……, I am posting and replying when I can.

    Have a great weekend and hopefully Monday brings more good new:-)

  • 68. davepCA  |  January 3, 2015 at 5:41 pm

    Same here! I'll report it. Anybody else having access issues should do likewise.

  • 69. Elihu_Bystander  |  January 3, 2015 at 6:25 pm

    Since Duval County borders Georgia, keep in mind the three day waiting period applies only if one or both of the spouses is a Florida resident. You do not have to be a resident of Florida to get a Florida marriage licence. You don't even have to be a citizen of the United States to get one. And in those cases, the three day waiting period does not apply.

  • 70. VIRick  |  January 3, 2015 at 6:30 pm

    I had no access all day yesterday and for most of the day today, during which time, without access, one couldn't report anything to anyone.

  • 71. VIRick  |  January 3, 2015 at 6:43 pm

    Not quite. Nassau County is sandwiched in between Duval County and the Georgia line, and given that Nassau County is still graciously providing full service for ALL applicants, everybody come on down from Georgia, heading south on I-95.

    Take the second exit in Florida, and turn left onto A1A, heading east toward Fernandina Beach. The Nassau County Courthouse, recently relocated in Yulee, will be the big, spiffy, modern building on your right, about 2 miles along, directly on the highway. You can obtain your Florida marriage license, and have your courthouse civil wedding performed immediately thereafter, all in one spot, as the 3-day wait is waived for all out-of-state couples.

    Then, without missing a beat, continue along on A1A to Fernandina Beach, with its live oaks dripping with Spanish moss, for a romantic honeymoom right on the beach.

    Besides Nassau County, one should also note that St Johns County (St. Augustine), immediately to the south of Duval County, is also continuing to graciously provide full service, including the optional courthouse civil marriage, and will continue to be doing so for ALL legal applicants.

    Everyone, gay, straight,– whatever,– should boycott Duval and Clay Counties so that their revenue from this source completely dries up. Instead, simply go to the neighboring county where everyone is welcome, Nassau to the north, or St Johns to the south.

    The Duval clerk is a major ass-hat. And Jacksonville is too cosmopolitan and too forward-thinking to tolerate his nonsense for very long. Expect serious backlash from the general public to his narrownes, ineptness, and stupidity. People who desire a CIVIL marriage are not the least bit interested in a religious marriage, nor are they the least bit interested in anyone else's supposed religion and its accompanying superstitions. He's pissing off all the wrong people, because the churchies he's preaching to already don't want a civil wedding, even if it were offered to them.

  • 72. Elihu_Bystander  |  January 3, 2015 at 6:52 pm

    Mike's explanation concerning 12:00 PM and 12:00 AM is exactly correct. It was the wide use of personal computers that brought us 12:00 PM and 12:00 AM.

    "Since noon is neither before noon nor after noon, a designation of either a.m. or p.m. is incorrect. Also, midnight is both twelve hours before noon and twelve hours after noon." Mike

    All this is why the US Military and others use 24 hour time. There is no 24:00 in 24 hour time. The clock goes from 23:59:59 to 00:00:00. I realize this begs the issue. The question was why 12:01 AM, The answer is because it's convention and for the reasons that Mike stated rather eloquently.

  • 73. Mike_Baltimore  |  January 3, 2015 at 8:39 pm

    "virtually everyone" is NOT everyone.

    'Virtually everyone' knows that worms in a human's gut are almost always from ingesting worm eggs (sometimes adult worms, sometimes worm nymphs, but almost always from worm eggs). Some people, though, believe that the ingestion of cat, dog, or other 'animal' hair causes worms – hair looks a lot like many worms, so the hair magically turns into worms when in the human gut. There can be no worms unless the hair has the worm eggs attached, and then the worm eggs are not expelled from the body. 'Virtually everyone' knows that, but there are some who don't.

  • 74. VIRick  |  January 3, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    "…. I screwed the pooch …."

    Ryan, more details, please. Do tell all!

  • 75. ianbirmingham  |  January 3, 2015 at 9:55 pm

    1) Check EoT site's status at
    2) If response is "It's just you" then use a proxy site to access EoT
    3) Problem Solved :-)

  • 76. Raga  |  January 3, 2015 at 10:27 pm

    Oh yeah – dunno what mood my phone is in these days :)

  • 77. Raga  |  January 3, 2015 at 10:31 pm

    Me too. It is strange that I can't access the site from within the University of Colorado network, but on my cellphone on LTE, it loads up okay. No idea why.

  • 78. sfbob  |  January 3, 2015 at 10:41 pm

    I had noticed it yesterday; at the same time the Courage Campaign's website (they are the parent organization) was also down. I noted it on the EoT Facebook page. Because both sites were down I'm assuming the problem has been with their hosting service.

  • 79. VIRick  |  January 3, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    Thank you. In the interval, I had begun to experience serious "withdrawal" symptoms, fearing I would be missing some important new development.

  • 80. Rick55845  |  January 3, 2015 at 11:14 pm

    I had a problem accessing this site too. I run my own nameserver, and dig gave me no response, so I downloaded a new root hints file and restarted bind and everything was fine.

  • 81. RnL2008  |  January 3, 2015 at 11:33 pm

    Thanks Guys……but it was NEVER my connection because my issue was ONLY this site and nothing else…today it's been better, but yesterday it was really frustrating……..seems to be okay for now……..hugs to you all<3

  • 82. Rick55845  |  January 3, 2015 at 11:35 pm

    "The clock goes from 23:59:59 to 00:00:00." — Elihu_Bystander

    That's usually true except when the International Earth Rotation and Reference Systems Service decides to add or subtract a leap second to the Coordinated Universal Time to keep it in close proximity to the Mean Solar Time. When that happens, usually on either December 31st or June 30th, the clock goes from 23:59:59 to 23:59:60 if a leap second is being added. If it is being subtracted (which has never yet occurred), then the clock would go from 23:59:59 to 23:59:59 a second later, and then to 00:00:00 of the next day.

    In practice, a leap second has never yet been subtracted from UTC, There have been 25 leap seconds added since the practice began in 1972. The most recent one was added on Jun 30th, 2012.

  • 83. F_Young  |  January 4, 2015 at 1:11 am

    Gay Marriage Gains Support, But It’s Still a Partisan Issue

    This is a new Newsweek article reporting on a November 2014 survey of the American Life Panel by the nonprofit, nonpartisan RAND Corporation. Here are excerpts of the article:

    "Overall, the majority of the country supports the legalization of gay marriage: 62.4 percent (margin of error /- 1.2 percent)."
    "…in all state types, including those where gay marriage is not currently legal, the majority of citizens favor its legalization."
    "The majority of respondents-—54.9 percent ( /- 2.6 percent)-—also feel that laws regarding same-sex marriage should be decided as a federal matter based on the U.S. Constitution, rather than on a state-by-state basis."
    "What sets our results apart from those collected by typical election polls is that we survey the same respondents repeatedly, many over the span of years."
    "In 2010, 50.8 percent of them supported legalizing gay marriage. Now, 64.0 percent ( /- 4.0 percent) of the SAME [caps added] people support gay marriage. However, this is not a statistically significant difference, given the 95 percent confidence interval we usually use in our RAND Midterm Election Survey blog posts."

    Still, IMHO, that's a 13% support increase in four years for the SAME respondents! Sounds significant to me. And it's probably gone up further since November.

  • 84. hopalongcassidy  |  January 4, 2015 at 5:56 am

    Many years ago I knew a guy who had no mission in life but to be a pedantic bastard who couldn't resist bitching about everything anybody said. I thought he had croaked.

  • 85. brandall  |  January 4, 2015 at 8:05 am

    These percentages above reflect the amazing changes we've accomplished by coming out, speaking out and putting our money where our mouth is by contributing to our LGBTQ organizations. We should continue to see increases over the next decade, especially as the younger generations get older.

    As an interesting comparison, 96% of white Americans disapproved of interracial marriage in 1958, while the percentage was 11% in 2013. The South has the lowest approval rate, while the West has the highest. Trends I'm sure we will also see with ME approval percentages.

  • 86. dlejrmex  |  January 4, 2015 at 8:47 am

    Happy New Year to all of you. Lets get Scottie to New Orleans…
    I'm mostly a lurker but I've donated. All of us lurkers need to do our part! :-)

  • 87. ianbirmingham  |  January 4, 2015 at 8:52 am

    Filibuster reform helped President Obama re-shape the federal courts
    by Paul Hogarth – WED DEC 17, 2014 AT 11:07 AM PST

    The Senate confirmed another dozen U.S. district court nominees last night, giving President Obama 89 confirmations this year—for a total of 305 judges in his first six years.
    How does that compare historically?

    President George W. Bush confirmed just 32 district court and circuit court judges during his sixth year in office, according to data provided by Alliance for Justice, a progressive advocacy group focused on the federal judiciary. President Bill Clinton confirmed 65 judges in his sixth year. In total, Bush confirmed 256 district and circuit court nominees after six years in office, Clinton confirmed 302, and President Ronald Reagan confirmed 295.

  • 88. brandall  |  January 4, 2015 at 9:51 am

    Florida. Huntsman v. Heavilin motion to lift the stay based on Hinkle's New Year's gift. This is Monroe County which includes Key West and I believe was the first of the state cases to rule in our favor by Judge Luis Garcia. Key West will open at 11:30 p.m. Monday to process licenses to same-sex couples like Huntsman and Jones. The office will process up to 100 applications.

    So far, no sign of Bondi! Maybe she is really going to go away in the state cases.

  • 89. bythesea66  |  January 4, 2015 at 10:44 am

    Another related topic, what is happening with the First Circuit Case regarding the ban in PR? I haven't really heard or seen anything since early on…

  • 90. bythesea66  |  January 4, 2015 at 10:49 am

    Ah nevermind, I just found that the opening brief is due 1/26.

  • 91. Mike_Baltimore  |  January 4, 2015 at 10:54 am

    Maybe that person was you when you looked into a mirror?

    Do you believe the moon is made of green cheese? Virtually everyone knows it isn't, but a few do.

    BTW- one of those people who believes cat and dog hair (especially) causes worms is my mother. That is one of the reasons my brother and I, when growing up, could never have an indoor cat or dog. After my brother moved out of the house and then married, he got a miniature dachshund. The dog was named 'Freddy' (short for his registered name of 'Frederico' followed by several additional names).

  • 92. brandall  |  January 4, 2015 at 11:10 am

    Nicely written and warm article about our own Jim Brenner and his husband Chuck Jones.

    "We live in constant fear that my parents and my brother, if something happens to me, we'd be at their mercy," Brenner said.

    I can personally relate to that statement. Like Brenner, I am older than my husband. Families can get weird when they lose a brother or son and suddenly come out of the woodwork with estate claims. The day we were able to get legally married was a small sigh of relief that I didn't have to worry about that issue any longer.

  • 93. ianbirmingham  |  January 4, 2015 at 11:12 am

    Lambda Legal filed an appeal to the 1st Circuit (10/28/14), no action yet.

  • 94. Mike_Baltimore  |  January 4, 2015 at 11:27 am


    Actually, the words you quoted are not mine, but the words of NIST (although I knew most of the information prior, just not all the nitty gritty details).

    And before personal computers became almost ubiquitous, some members of Congress tried to extend a law by saying that 12:00 am (as written in the law) was noon the following day, not midnight. After all, the hour following 11:59 pm could be called 12:00 pm, and twelve hours later would occur 12:00 am. Courts looking into the matter decided the case was moot, as by the time the courts received the case, there was no doubt that the law had expired. Thus the courts did not issue a definitive ruling on the issue. Congress did start to write begin (e.g. 12:01 am) and end (e.g. 11:59 pm) times in a manner that would be much more difficult to interpret in different manners than intended.

  • 95. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 4, 2015 at 11:36 am

    I wish I had a better story to provide here. While I could make up something fun, I'm just going to leave it at this:

  • 96. bayareajohn  |  January 4, 2015 at 11:39 am

    Mike is obsessively detail oriented, which has benefits and issues. His being pedantic isn't as much the problem as the nasty and personal slams where he goes whenever he senses a challenge, real or imagined. Many are imagined… I know because he's (furiously) told me several times exactly what I meant… when I, being the one who meant it, knew better. At those times, I try to remember that it's Mike's world, we're just in it.

    On the up side, 86.2% or more of his posts are informative. And DETAILED.

  • 97. hopalongcassidy  |  January 4, 2015 at 11:45 am

    Kind of ironic to see Pasco county on the list. When I moved to Tampa in 1979, it was illegal to sell liquor AND beer in Hillsboro county on Sunday…we drove up to Pasco from the USF area MANY times on Sunday to buy beer. This went on for several years until they finally woke up.

  • 98. GregInTN  |  January 4, 2015 at 12:34 pm

    The Governor seems amazed that no other state is making the argument that allowing same sex couples to marry will result in heterosexuals behaving more irresponsibly.

    That argument didn't fly at either the District Court or the Circuit Court but he thinks it is the most important argument to make at the Supreme Court.

  • 99. VIRick  |  January 4, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    Even more ironic is the fact that Pasco County is home to one of Florida's largest and most successful LGBT campground/resorts, a sprawling facility which is located just a few miles north of the Pasco County courthouse in Dade City.

    Also, as Tampa metro continues to expand, it's spilling over into Pasco County, converting little "nothing" crossroads with quaint names, like Wesley Chapel, into wall-to-wall suburban developments.

  • 100. Lynn_E  |  January 4, 2015 at 12:44 pm

    They will re-write history to say that their church didn't oppose ME, but that some mis-guided men twisted doctrines to suit their political needs. They recently made this "excuse" for their position on people of African descent.

  • 101. VIRick  |  January 4, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    "….Several country clerks will open their offices at 12:01am ET on Tuesday, January 6, 2015, in order to issue marriage licenses to couples (opposite or same gender couples). …."

    Yes, and as of last report, those counties are Broward, Palm Beach, and Osceola, although Osceola is no longer accepting any more post-midnight applications, as all available time-slots there have already been booked.

    As soon as their respective stays are lifted, we can also expect Miami-Dade and Monroe to join the post-midnight marriage list. Oooooh, wait! Edit: I see from Brandall's post, further down in this thread, that Monroe County (Key West) is now going forward:

    "…. Key West will open at 11:30 p.m. Monday to process licenses to same-sex couples like Huntsman and Jones. The office will process up to 100 applications….."

    And, as future events have now unfolded, we see, of course, that Miami-Dade has stolen the thunder!

  • 102. VIRick  |  January 4, 2015 at 1:05 pm

    "….Daaang, Brandall! I had no idea you and your husband were such powerful evil geniuses! …."

    Isn't Brandall just so totally amazing!!!

    I already have the "Sassy Homo from Homosassa" covered. What's Brandall's evil-genius, super-hero, action-figure pseudonym?

  • 103. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 4, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    We have Sawmill on our list of "things still to do in FL" list. We've camped at Vitambi Springs down here in South Florida in the Everglades, but not Sawmill yet.

  • 104. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 4, 2015 at 1:18 pm

    I just hope his sidekick is a shark with frickin laser beams attached to their heads.

  • 105. VIRick  |  January 4, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    "…. the mother of all anti-LGBT states …."

    Utah may have the highest percentage of its total population adhering to the LDS strangeness, but remember, Idaho is right behind it, with the second-highest percentage.

    So, as I read it, the mother of all anti-LGBT states may have finally, and quite reluctantly, given it up, but the step-mother hasn't.

  • 106. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 4, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    Is it correct that only the Clerks in Monroe (this case mentioned above) and Miami-Dade (where Judge Zabel is having a hearing on Monday morning to dissolve that stay) have state court judicial orders that need addressed?

    Even if they aren't addressed though, the stay is on the judges ruling to strike the amendment ban and statues as unconstitutional. The stays, as far as I know, are not an injunction of any kind against the Clerks to not issue licenses. So even with these state level stays in place on pro-ME rulings, there is nothing that dictates the Clerks not to issue licenses once the federal injunction takes hold on 1/6/15 at Midnight.

  • 107. DrBriCA  |  January 4, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    I agree. I guess they're just covering all bases to avoid any potential further barriers. Should really weakened the state court appeals by that point once these stays are lifted!

    I prefer the 11th Circuit appeal to continue (it's fully briefed) since that'll push along sluggish Georgia and Alabama. (Even if the Appeal goes on hold after SCOTUS picks a case this month, the circuit will still probably rule faster after the decision in June than either district court will.)

    I haven't reviewed the plaintiffs' briefs for the 11th. Did they pursue heightened scrutiny at all? That'd be even better for the 11th to possibly revisit someday.

  • 108. hopalongcassidy  |  January 4, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    Wow, I had no idea. Did it perhaps come into existence after 1995?…that's when I moved away from Florida. I had some clients in and around Dade City, spent a fair amount of time there and nearby Brooksville but never heard of the facility.

  • 109. hopalongcassidy  |  January 4, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    I know…I just need to remember to remind myself, not all straight people are assholes and not all gay folks are amicable. 😀

  • 110. VIRick  |  January 4, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    The Sawmill is wonderful. Just one word of warning: Before booking your stay, double-check to make certain it doesn't co-incide with the next conclave of the Mid-Florida Nude Lesbian Bikers. I've never seen so much genital jewelry on display,– before or since. My eyes have yet to recover.

  • 111. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 4, 2015 at 2:05 pm

    Facebook page indicates 2009. So that's a yes to your question.

    Here's their website:

  • 112. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 4, 2015 at 2:08 pm

    LMAO… I'll be sure to triple check the event list to ensure its not that weekend! My sincere best wishes to your retinas.

    Our last trip to Vitambi Springs was apparently during a dedicated nudist weekend, but also coincided with THE coldest weekend all year. You can imagine the pool wasn't used much!

  • 113. davepCA  |  January 4, 2015 at 2:11 pm

    I find that when Mike offers his pointless contrarian comments about some irrelevant detail, it helps to imagine his comment being recited by the character 'Sheldon Cooper' of TV's "The Big Bang Theory". Your mileage may vary.

    We love ya, Mike. But I won't go so far as to add "don't ever change". The confrontational nit picking can be rude and annoying, and please feel free to change that.

  • 114. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 4, 2015 at 2:11 pm

    Many times I find more straight people amicable and more gay folk assholes. A lot of chips on the proverbial shoulders. But, hard to stereotype any large group either way… Good people and assholes amongst most groups.

  • 115. brandall  |  January 4, 2015 at 2:25 pm

    It is correct that only Pareto v. Ruvin (Miami-Dade) and Huntsman and Jones v. Heavlin (Monroe) have orders that need to be addressed. But, they are a bit different in each of the cases.

    Huntsman was decided one week prior to Pareto in July, 2014. Judge Garcia did not stay his orders. But, Bondi appealed and in Florida an appeal creates an automatic stay. So, when the Pareto decision was issued a week later, Judge Zabel did issue a "stay pending the outcome of the appeal" at the state level. In Florida, I do not know the procedure for undoing an automatic stay based on an appeal. Does Bondi have to withdraw her appeal?

    While the Miami and Monroe clerks are moving full steam ahead, remember Hinkle's order does not say all 67 county clerks MUST issue licenses, it says they MAY issue licenses. But if they don't, get ready for further litigation. Because Florida's law specifically targets (I believe one of or the only state law to do this) the county clerks for criminal and financial penalties for issuing licenses, only these two pro ME county clerks are caught in the middle where the other 65 county clerks just have to decide on Hinkle's guidance. Yes, Hinkle's federal decision and New Year's clarification should put a stop to all this "confusion"….but I don't trust the Scott/Bondi machine.

  • 116. davepCA  |  January 4, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    Aw shucks. They're adorable!

    I do like the way the article first describes them: "sweethearts for 25 years, a married couple for five".

  • 117. VIRick  |  January 4, 2015 at 2:31 pm

    Apparently, our coy back-and-forth here has been deleted.

    But, seriously, I was sooooooo scared!!

  • 118. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 4, 2015 at 2:35 pm

    It's still visible to me! I can understand you may have lingering memories!

    Does that mean you didn't get my Vitambi Springs nudist weekend coinciding with cold front comment? Lol.

  • 119. ianbirmingham  |  January 4, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    Pasco County is also home to the largest nudist / naturist population in North America. Land O' Lakes has numerous all-nude residential neighborhoods (Lake Como, Paradise Lakes, etc.) – see

  • 120. bythesea66  |  January 4, 2015 at 4:10 pm

    Lol! That's my solution too! I just imagine Sheldon in late middle age and it all just entertains me and is well worth the information that comes with the aggravation.

  • 121. StraightDave  |  January 4, 2015 at 6:54 pm

    I also imagine Sheldon in these instances. But you do know the actor is gay on real life, don't you? :)

    Not that it counts for anything, but it helps solidify the Mike image for me. To be fair, Mike does have some real useful gems on occasion (like the time issue, above). I tend to focus more on those than the oh-by-the-way commentaries that "neither pick my picket nor break my leg" (per Thomas Jefferson).

  • 122. Zack12  |  January 4, 2015 at 8:17 pm

    Indeed, and this sadly happens to straight families as well.
    Greed will trump all.

  • 123. Ryan K (a.k.a. KELL)  |  January 4, 2015 at 8:23 pm

    Well after an absolutely HORRIFIC weekend of professional football (my Steelers and Lions both losing in the first round), at least I'll have Tuesday to look forward to in order to cheer me up.

    A lot of conversation on the local television stations, dialogue amongst all people (straight and gay), and discussions of how things will go on Tuesday. All signs point to a good day!

  • 124. mario315  |  January 4, 2015 at 10:03 pm

    Just saw the FRONT PAGE of Sunday's Miami Herald…. Beautiful !…. Biggest. Cover. Story. and Layout. Ever !… Check it online if you can (with all the color graphics and giant photo) …. Will make you smile….

    Can't wait for Wednesday's front pages !!!

  • 125. VIRick  |  January 4, 2015 at 10:19 pm

    Thus explaining, perhaps, why so many areas there are gated.

    Paula O'Neil, Pasco's clerk of the court, told the Tampa Bay Times part of her reason (in no longer providing the courthouse civil marriage ceremony) is budgetary but that religious and personal reasons also were factored in. She said Pasco is experiencing a construction boom, which is placing a strain on staffing. And she said most of her staff who handle marriage licenses were "uncomfortable" officiating same-sex marriages.

    "The problem is we can't discriminate," she told the Times. "So there are some people (apparently referring to staff, not marriage applicants) who would have wanted to transfer to another area, and we can't transfer everybody." Pasco's new ruling actually began on 1 October, well after a federal judge struck Florida's same-sex marriage ban, but while the matter was still tied up in the courts.

    I see Gilchrist County (Trenton) cryptically states on its website that it also does not provide for courthouse wedding ceremonies.

    On the other hand, from a new notice on the website of the St. Lucie County (Ft. Pierce) clerk of court:

    "Same-sex marriage licenses will start being issued at 8 AM on 6 January in the Clerk's Recording Department in downtown Fort Pierce. The office performs ceremonies Monday through Friday at the Clerk’s downtown Fort Pierce office. The ceremonies cost $30 in addition to the license fee."

    And now, I see someone has tweeted "Equality Florida" looking for a notary willing to perform a same-sex wedding ceremony in the Pasco/Hernando/Sumter County area.

    This tells me that, like Pasco, both Hernando and Sumter Counties have also withdrawn their add-on $30 courthouse civil marriage service. If so, that brings the latest count up to 19 counties that have pinched their noses at the mere thought of marrying those icky gays.

  • 126. VIRick  |  January 4, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    For hours, the "Recent Comments" sidebar would up-date, showing me the lead-in "tease," but the main thread here was frozen and would not up-date.

  • 127. RnL2008  |  January 4, 2015 at 10:45 pm

    I didn't get to watch the Steeler game, but the Lions GOT robbed by poor officiating…….and in the playoffs those losses really sting……sorry for your loss.

  • 128. RnL2008  |  January 4, 2015 at 10:47 pm

    I'd love to read the article, but I don't have an account….but I do agree it's a wonderful picture of the two:-)

  • 129. VIRick  |  January 4, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    "…. I thought he had croaked….."

    Hop, you made me pee my pants when I ran into that! LOL

  • 130. F_Young  |  January 5, 2015 at 12:40 am

    Here's another nice article on couples about to be married, and it does not appear to be behind a paywall:

    Central Florida gay couples eager to get married

  • 131. davepCA  |  January 5, 2015 at 12:54 am

    Hi Rose – that's odd… I don't have an account either and I can see the article…?

  • 132. F_Young  |  January 5, 2015 at 1:04 am

    Gay marriage TV ads aim to put face on Texas LGBT couples

  • 133. JayJonson  |  January 5, 2015 at 5:55 am

    I don't think anyone except the fringe who follows First Things are taken this seriously. But I wish it would catch on. It would be great to have bigots further marginalize themselves and perform fewer marriages.

  • 134. sfbob  |  January 5, 2015 at 6:01 am

    I can see the second article that doesn't include Jim and Chuck but when I click brandall's link I get a popup that requires me to sign up for paid access; close the pop-up and the article disappears. Weird.

  • 135. JayJonson  |  January 5, 2015 at 6:14 am

    Exactly right about the stupid clerk's misunderstanding of the entire purpose of offering civil marriage and who wants one. A similar issue came up in Canada when a marriage officiant refused to perform same-sex marriages (though he offered to find another marriage officiant to perform marriages for same-sex couples.) In Canada, the government licenses marriage officiants to perform explicitly secular weddings. The whole purpose of having government-licensed marriage officiants was because until the office of officiant was established the only people who could perform marriages were clergy. Thus, the office was designed so that religious issues would not prevent people from marrying. Glad to say that Canada's Supreme Court quickly dispatched the "religious objection" exemption sought by some marriage officiants. I hope that the people of Jacksonville will remove the clerk.

  • 136. RemC_Chicago  |  January 5, 2015 at 6:54 am

    Thanks for the tip. I've posted a Facebook request of Miami friends to send me the article.

  • 137. Sagesse  |  January 5, 2015 at 7:13 am

    I run into the paywall when I try to read the article too. Often, if I use Google News to source an article, I can avoid it, but not this one.

  • 138. guitaristbl  |  January 5, 2015 at 11:06 am

    Ok I was wrong this is the BEST petition to SCOTUS by far. I mean can you imagine how much easier it will be to win this with an attorney representing otter ranting about marriage equality leading to increased crime rate ? Not that the arguments from the rest of the states are any more serious but it would be highly entertaining to have these arguments before SCOTUS. I mean even Roberts may blink while hearing these crap, it's not possible he won't !

  • 139. guitaristbl  |  January 5, 2015 at 11:09 am

    IMO she is just trying to speed things up. Or she may have finally seen the writing on the wall but she has to put up a supposed fight to keep the social conservatives in Florida who re elected her happy.

  • 140. guitaristbl  |  January 5, 2015 at 11:12 am

    Amongst dangerous "religious freedom" bills, Wyoming lawmakers decided to be funny it seems with one of the most useless bills to counter equality ever. Such a waste of precious legislative time.

  • 141. guitaristbl  |  January 5, 2015 at 11:18 am

    Otter and his ridiculous petition are just delay tactics to try and get the issue into next term. End of story. I believe and hope he will fail, even if the level of ridiculousness of his petition makes it such a great vehicle for SCOTUS review.
    Oh and I am happy he got a new "winning" team – not. From one bigoted failure of a lawyer, Monte, to another, Gene. Good luck with that.

  • 142. Wolf of Raging Fires  |  January 7, 2015 at 6:54 pm

    You got me too, lol

  • 143. hopalongcassidy  |  January 9, 2015 at 10:15 am

    So, 14 years too late. Story of my life. haha

  • 144. Equality On TrialNinth Ci&hellip  |  January 12, 2015 at 8:00 am

    […] Idaho case, Latta v. Otter, is already expected to be taken under consideration by the Supreme Court in the coming weeks: two petitions have been filed in the case asking the […]

  • 145. Equality On TrialREAD IT &hellip  |  January 29, 2015 at 12:30 pm

    […] the Idaho marriage case, Latta v. Otter, the state and the governor filed separate petitions for review in the Supreme Court. Governor Otter has now filed his response to the state’s […]

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