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11/29-11/30 open thread w/UPDATES

Community/Meta Right-wing

This is an open thread. We’ll do a full post with any breaking news.

– Today, a state judge in Louisiana will hear arguments in a challenge to the governor’s LGBT non-discrimination order.

– Apparently every person Donald Trump has nominated to position in his administration holds anti-LGBT views.

– In the Supreme Court, a response to the petition in the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, involving a bakery that discriminated against a same-sex couple, is due. We’ll post when it’s filed.

UPDATE: Anti-LGBT language has been stripped from the defense bill in Congress.

UPDATE 2: Today, the en banc Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals heard arguments in Hively v. Ivy Tech, involving employment discrimination based on sexual orientation. The audio is

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  • 1. VIRick  |  November 29, 2016 at 1:49 pm

    North Carolina: High Point Furniture Fair and the Fall-Out from HB2

    High Point NC – The multi-billion dollar NC furniture market has reported significant attendance drops after HB2. Fewer people are attending a world-renowned furniture market in North Carolina, where state law defines which bathrooms people can use and limits legal protections for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people.

    Attendance at the High Point Market’s fall event dropped 2.4 percent compared to October 2015 (meaning that it drew about 1850 fewer registered attendees). The spring 2016 event also drew about 1,000 fewer registered attendees than in April 2015.

    The taxpayer-supported authority was one of the first North Carolina business groups to warn the law could hurt commerce. The twice-a-year markets together generate about $5 billion in statewide economic activity.

    The 2015 fall market for wholesale furniture buyers and sellers had been the best in five years, so this October’s registered attendance of 77,036 is still strong, High Point Market Authority CEO Tom Conley said in a news release last week. It’s nearly 1 percent higher than in 2014, he said (perhaps the only good news angle that could be reported).

    The spring market held in April was marked by a social-media campaign urging a boycott after North Carolina lawmakers in March voided a Charlotte anti-discrimination ordinance and imposed the new rules statewide. Some of the roughly 20,000 retail and interior-design companies that usually attend the five-day event stayed away (to the tune of about 1850 potential buyers).….

    Note: Given High Point's complete focus on ultra-fashionable, high-end furniture and interior décor, this city easily qualifies as North Carolina's gayest (even ahead of Asheville and all its artistes), and without question, its semi-annual furniture fairs qualify as North Carolina's gayest and splashiest business event, given how all the high-end fashionistas and interior designers from everywhere descend upon that locale to do their wholesale buying for the upcoming season. One simply has not lived until one has attended a High Point Furniture Fair. By comparison, the competing furniture fairs in Hickory specialize in all the functionally-mundane, non-gay, run-of-the-mill stuff.

  • 2. VIRick  |  November 29, 2016 at 4:04 pm

    Romania: Court Defers to Court of Justice of the European Union

    Today, 29 November 2016, Romania's Constitutional Court deferred the question of the pending same-sex marriage recognition lawsuit to the Court of Justice of the Eureopean Union. This referral is a major step since a positive ruling there could have area-wide implications within the entire European Union.

    ILGA-Europe, one of a group of five NGO third-parties who have intervened in the case, "Coman, Hamilton, and Association Accept," are very encouraged by the Constitutional Court’s decision. ILGA-Europe Advocacy Director Katrin Hugendubel commented, "We are hopeful that the CJEU will use this occasion and, with their judgment, affirm core principles of the European Union, in particular freedom of movement and residence, also for same-sex couples."

    The decision to submit a request for a preliminary ruling to the CJEU means that the couple at the center of the Coman case will soon have a definitive answer, one that could be valuable for many other couples across Europe in a similar situation, guaranteeing legal certainty by the uniform application of EU law.

    The Romanian authorities refused to issue a residence permit for Mr. Coman’s husband in 2012, as the state did not recognize him as a spouse. The current case is challenging the constitutionality of the section of the domestic Civil Code that excludes same-sex marriages carried out abroad from being recognized in Romania.

    The Romanian Constitutional Court will seek clarification on whether a same-sex couple, married abroad (in this instance, in Belgium), can be recognized as spouses under Romanian law by way of application of the EU law on family reunification with a EU citizen. This is the first time that the Romanian Court has referred questions to the CJEU.

    The next hearing in the case before the Constitutional Court has been set for 30 March 2017.

  • 3. allan120102  |  November 29, 2016 at 4:57 pm

    Looks like there is a rumor that Kennedy is the next one who might leave the supreme court if this is true we are in big trouble. Hopefully is a rumor and no more.

  • 4. VIRick  |  November 29, 2016 at 8:00 pm

    Anti-LGBT Language Stripped from Defense Bill

    A provision that would have undermined President Obama’s executive order barring federal contractors from engaging in anti-LGBT workplace discrimination won’t be included in the final package of major defense spending legislation, according to senior armed services committee aides.

    During a background briefing with reporters on Tuesday, 29 November 2016, an aide said the final version of the fiscal year 2017 defense authorization bill hammered out by House and Senate lawmakers in conference committee lacks the language Rep. Steve Russell (R-OK) inserted in the House version of the bill.

    The aide affirmed that neither the Russell amendment nor anything like it would be included in the $619 billion defense package, which is expected to make it to the House floor for a vote on Friday, 2 December.

  • 5. VIRick  |  November 29, 2016 at 8:07 pm

    Ray Buckley Announces Bid to Become Next DNC Chair

    The gay head of the New Hampshire Democratic Party, Ray Buckley, on Tuesday, 29 November 2016, announced he is running to become the next chair of the Democratic National Committee.

    “I am a candidate for chair of the Democratic National Committee,” he wrote on Facebook. “I look forward to a robust discussion with you on the future of the Democratic Party and I ask for and hope to earn your support.”

    South Carolina Democratic Party Chair Jaime Harrison, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, and Minnesota Congressman Keith Ellison have also announced their candidacies to succeed the interim Chair, Donna Brazile. The election on who will succeed Brazile is slated to take place in February during the DNC’s winter meeting in Atlanta.

  • 6. guitaristbl  |  November 30, 2016 at 8:19 am

    I refuse to believe someone like Kennedy would leave the court after Trump has been elected ! No it must not happen. No judge should be willing to voluntarily step down right now from those of age. That's what I expect.

  • 7. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 10:04 am

    YES!!!! I was getting very concerned about this one. What a relief!

  • 8. scream4ever  |  November 30, 2016 at 11:26 am

    There were rumors of Thomas stepping down as well, but those were debunked.

  • 9. FredDorner  |  November 30, 2016 at 11:26 am

    Note that the "Daily Signal" is a right-wing conspiracy site like Breitbart or World Nut Daily.
    They have no credibility.

  • 10. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 2:37 pm

    Care to elaborate, troll? Please name the legislation that would allow a gay man to use a women's bathroom. This should be amusing.

  • 11. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 2:51 pm

    What on earth are you babbling about? What does HB2's language about gender and bathrooms have to do with gay men?

    And I notice you modified your comment, which used to say 'the Muslim homo Barry". Dude, you're an idiot.

  • 12. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 2:58 pm

    Okay, let's start with the main issues, like legal marriage for same sex couples, and the laws that were preventing this, which were all found unconstitutional in recent years.

    Do you think you can show that the courts ruled incorrectly, and that those laws that were created to deny legal marriage to same sex couples could possibly comply with the Constitution? Proceed.

  • 13. VIRick  |  November 30, 2016 at 3:06 pm

    Did you even read what I posted last night about the High Point Furniture Fair and the $5 billion North Carolina furniture industry, as the entire industry watches years worth of very hand work (including lots of financial promotion by the state itself) slide down the toilet because of a foolishly ill-conceived law attempting to "cure" a problem that never existed in the first instance.

    I'm assuming, too, that you're not a resident of North Carolina adversely affected by any of this, but are merely here because you have a large stick up your ass and a small, dull axe to grind.

    But at least I see you have removed the "Muslim homo" reference, as this is not a website designed for airing one's pet phobias.

  • 14. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 3:07 pm

    …. I see that you have now decided to delete your follow up comments. What's wrong? Scared of a little honest debate that involves rational thought instead of childish trolling?

  • 15. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 3:10 pm

    Please explain how your 'right to free speech' has been infringed upon. This should be amusing.

  • 16. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 3:14 pm

    …. and please explain how you are in any position to determine that a naturally occurring orientation is 'not normal". Are you a psychologist? An expert in gender or sexuality research? Because all of the legitimate research and health care organizations like the AMA and the APA have spent several decades studying these issues and they all conclude that both heterosexuality and homosexuality are naturally occurring and normal expressions of sexuality.

    Do you know more than all of those groups do? Where is YOUR decades of peer-reviewed research? Oh, you don't have any? So you're just making up bullshit and throwing it out on the internet? Got it.

  • 17. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 3:17 pm

    If you think THAT is an infringement on your "right to free speech", you are an idiot who doesn't understand the first thing about "rights".

    This is a web site, not a newspaper that you own. If you want to post here, you have to follow the rules just like everybody else. Your "right to free speech" has not been affected at all.

    So if you can refrain from behaving like a little child throwing a potty mouth temper tantrum, please go ahead and post your 'arguments'. This should be amusing.

  • 18. allan120102  |  November 30, 2016 at 3:20 pm

    Amazing news guys. Roy cooper have surpassed the 10,000 lead over Pat Mccrory if it holds Mccrory might not ask for a recout.

  • 19. VIRick  |  November 30, 2016 at 4:20 pm

    It appears as if I may have gotten caught in the cross-fire after our "special snowflake" arrived, as everyone will note, beginning from immediately below this point, as I am unable to post to anything further down.

    My retort to what follows is the comment just posted by someone named M!guel at Matrimonio Igualitario:

    "Soy Único porque mi Dios Yahveh me hizo a su imagen y semejanza."

    " I am Unique because my God Yahweh made me in His image and likeness."

  • 20. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 4:44 pm

    You can try to blame your childish bigotry on God if you want to, but the fact is that it is a normal and naturally occurring orientation, as all of the decades of research has confirmed. The fact that two people of the same sex don't reproduce is irrelevant. Lots of straight people and opposite sex couples also don't reproduce. And that's ALSO normal.

    Look, you are free to think whatever idiotic unfounded nonsense you want to think, and you can use God or whatever else you want to use to justify your prejudice, or you don't even have to try to justify it – you can just be prejudiced for no reason at all. It's a free country, knock yourself out.

    BUT – if you want to try to argue that your views should be given the force of LAW, you need to explain how a law could do what you want without that law violating the federal Constitution.

    Because laws have to comply with the Constitution, not with your personal anti-gay sentiments. It's not all about you, princess. Other citizens have rights, and those rights are protected by the Constitution. Got that?

  • 21. Christian0811  |  November 30, 2016 at 5:15 pm

    Don't feed the trolls, the dude probably isn't even serious he's just tryna get a rise outta people lol

  • 22. Straight All The Way  |  November 30, 2016 at 5:33 pm

    Hey this is not anti gay it's a fact that man and woman were created for reproduction, if God wanted Adam and Steve the world would be empty. If your mother never had sex with your father you would not be here, case closed.

    So what is next a man and a boy having sex? or marriage between man and his dog? I'm not the one who said this is wrong, God who said is wrong, so take it up with him. This was never a problem nor unconstitutional until the Barry the gay muslim made it a problem. Yes you gays have rights but when you start to sue people for not baking a stupid cake and disrespecting their religious views then I have a problem.

    You gays are not the majority, and these transgender laws will put young women and young girls in danger of perverts using this B.S. law to go into a ladies public restroom and harass women. It's has already happen earlier this year and no I will not give you a link, google it and get the news for yourself.

  • 23. Straight All The Way  |  November 30, 2016 at 5:36 pm

    Too late I have already got a rise out of him, and what makes you think I'm a dude?

  • 24. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 6:42 pm

    you give yourself way too much credit. Dealing with idiots like you is like swatting flies. You have no argument to back up any of the ridiculous remarks you have made.

  • 25. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 6:52 pm

    Two people of the same sex don't procreate together. Yup. So what? Lots of straight people and straight couples also don't procreate together. So what? Is that supposed to be some kind of 'argument' that explains why your views should be given the force of law? Not even close.

    And your silly 'slippery slope' non-argument has already been debunked a thousand times. Try harder,

    And nope, God is perfectly happy with people who are gay. If He didn't like it, He wouldn't keep making all these gay people. Try doing a search on the phrase 'gay friendly church' and you'll get thousands of hits. Lots of religious groups and religious people don't engage in your cowardly tactic of hiding your bigotry behind a Bible and blaming your petty self-centered shortcomings of bigotry on God. God has nothing to do with your bigotry. That's YOUR choice. Grow up and make better choices.

    And gays may not be the majority, the the people who support equal rights for gay citizens certainly ARE the majority. YOU are in a rapidly dwindling minority.

    And perverts who want to go into the women's room are already doing that, regardless of any law, and this law doesn't change any of that. Logic fail.

    So instead of trying to cram as many idiotic false statements and BS rhetoric into one comment as possible, try picking one topic and act like a grown up and offer your argument to support your position. Do you think you can do that, or am I asking too much of you?

  • 26. Straight All The Way  |  November 30, 2016 at 6:54 pm

    I don't have to give myself credit, you do it for me. I enjoy getting a rise out of you, YouSoFunny.

  • 27. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 6:58 pm

    Still not seeing any argument from you to explain how your views could be given the force of law without resulting in a law that violates the Constitution. Are you afraid of an actual debate? Prove me wrong. Offer your "argument".

  • 28. Straight All The Way  |  November 30, 2016 at 7:03 pm

    Wow I really got you working hard tonight, I nor the Bible is bigotry it's the truth. Why am I a coward? for telling you the truth that this is a perverted disgusting lifestyle. You can defend this perverted life style all you want, still does not make it right.

    I don't have to cram anything, I just pointed out between one man and one woman you would not be here. And as for the transgender laws, sure enough this law will bring problems and will endanger women and young girls. None of my statements are false, if you can't accept this that is between you and God.

  • 29. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 7:08 pm

    yes Einstein, you have figured out that procreation involves people of the opposite sex. Again, so what? There is nothing about this that helps you construct any argument to show how your views could be given the force of law without violating the Constitution. So it just amounts you you whining on the internet anonymously about how you don't like the gays. Well duh. So what?

    And please explain how HB2 has had any effect on any straight pervs who want to creep around in the women's room. You are not capable of logical thought, are you?

    And God and I are just fine, thank you. But He would appreciate it if you wouldn't keep blaming him for your petty personal prejudices. He has nothing to do with that stuff. That's on you.

  • 30. Straight All The Way  |  November 30, 2016 at 7:09 pm

    As I said before, it was never a problem until the gay muslim moron made it a problem. If you people want a civil union whatever the hell that is then so be it. But to make it legal? oh hell no, this is all wrong, God does not recognize no same sex anything as a union. Forget it Bubba, it ain't happening.

  • 31. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 7:12 pm

    That is still not an argument to show how your views could be given the force of law without violating the Constitution, is it? Nope.

    If you really think the law should do what you want and deny legal marriage to same sex couples, then explain how laws could do that without violating the Constitution.

    I mean, you DO have some kind of rational, logical thought process to back up what you are saying, don't you? You're not just some complete idiot spewing irrational crap on the internet, are you? Please say it ain't so!

  • 32. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 7:26 pm

    …. You Said This: "as for the transgender laws, sure enough this law will bring problems "

    What exactly do you think this HB2 law says?

    Your extreme ignorance is on full display right here. You have no idea what you are talking about.

  • 33. Straight All The Way  |  November 30, 2016 at 7:29 pm

    I told you this was never a problem until the muslim moron made it a problem. The Constitution does not speak of same sex anything it says all men are created equal, nothing about marriage. Our Fore Fathers were not gay and when they created the Constitution they did not have same sex couples in mind.

    Do you believe in God? if you do, then I suggest you take it up with him.

    Leviticus 18:22 "'Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does

    'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

  • 34. davepCA  |  November 30, 2016 at 7:37 pm

    Nope, you're still off in the weeds and you have offered nothing at all to show that laws can do what you want without violating the Constitution.

    I suspect you wouldn't know the first thing about how to offer such an argument. All you are capable of is 'I want the law to do what I want it to do cuz that's what I want'. Well it's not all about you, princess. Other citizens have rights, and those rights are protected by the Constitution.

    You have no idea what laws are and are not allowed to do to our citizens, and you don't know the first thing about how we determine whether a law complies with or violates the Constitution. You're extremely ignorant about all of this.

    Yes, The Constitution DOES say that all men are created equal, and the Constitution mandates "equal protection', and laws that denied all of the important legal rights and legal protections of civil marriage to same sex couples violated that constitutional requirement.

    And BTW, gay people have existed for as long as straight people have existed, dummy. Sheeesh.

    And btw, Leviticus doesn't say that, and it's irrelevant to the question of Constitutional Compliance of civil laws anyway.

  • 35. allan120102  |  December 1, 2016 at 1:48 pm

    Nigeria ban on ssm to be challenge by lesbian and bisexual womens but not because of getting married but to stop the wild discrimination that the act passed in 2014 brought to them, lesbian and bisexual are the most affected in the community. As being women and lesbian bring double stigma against them.

  • 36. allan120102  |  December 1, 2016 at 2:10 pm

    Peru might be the next country to legalize ss unions. Bolivia and Peru are the closest ones right now to present and discuss this laws. Hope both are appprove.

  • 37. allan120102  |  December 1, 2016 at 2:16 pm

    Incredible but one of the PRD deputies in SLP who voted against ssm says that ssm is not normal and that SLP is not prepare for it. I am quite in shock the PRD voted against us in that issue. The other PRD deputy who voted against legalising ssm in the state he made a mistake by error but next year he will introduce a ssm bill. This in my opinion is just an excuse after the PRD scold its member of the states for voting agaisnt. BTW I am having trouble into trying to comment in here, Anyone know why its so hard to post a comment?

  • 38. VIRick  |  December 1, 2016 at 2:27 pm

    The "special snowflake" situation to which I have alluded here has now been deleted in its entirety, and thus should now be cited in the definitive past tense.

  • 39. VIRick  |  December 1, 2016 at 2:39 pm

    Allan, I am also having extreme difficulty in posting anything whatsoever below this point in this thread. I suspect that it has everything to do with the now-deleted "special snowflake" situation which once filled a long stretch between here and your post about the North Carolina governor's race. I think a few extra items might have also gotten deleted, and in the process, that the thread itself gotten messed up.

    That is why I reverted to the previous thread to post my long up-date about the Venezuela Supreme Court, and then continued posting from there.

  • 40. bayareajohn  |  December 1, 2016 at 9:01 pm

    If no one engages flakes, when their site policy violating posts are removed, there is far less collateral damage to interleaved messages.

    It appears that deliberate disruptions are not lasting long before cleaning, and if it's not fun (nobody screaming back and constantly being removed), most trolls attention span can't handle their pyrrhic results and give up.

  • 41. ianbirmingham  |  December 2, 2016 at 1:15 pm

    How Kinky and Non-Traditional Parents are Punished by Family Courts

  • 42. ianbirmingham  |  December 2, 2016 at 1:15 pm

    Custody Rights of Lesbian and Gay Parents Redux: The Irrelevance of Constitutional Principles

  • 43. Fortguy  |  December 2, 2016 at 4:55 pm

    We have good news out of Africa for once. Gambian President Yahya Jammeh, the strong-arm dictator of the country for the past 22 years and who had pledged to lead for a billion more, has conceded defeat after yesterday's election results were announced.

    Joshua Keating, Slate: Finally, a Victory for Democracy in 2016

    Jammeh is a hideous homophobe who passes a law punishing homosexuality with up to life in prison and expressed the desire to slit the throats of gays. I hope the door slams him hard in the ass on his way out.

  • 44. allan120102  |  December 2, 2016 at 6:12 pm

    Well it looks like Trump has reduce its possibly nominees to three and four people. Looks like he will quickly fill the spot of Scalia, and it says that he will fill any other vacancy with people from his list. Most if not all are against us, really sad and disappoint that Americans vote for him.

  • 45. FredDorner  |  December 3, 2016 at 11:18 am

    This reminds me of a recent case in Utah where a same-sex couple were trying to adopt their foster child (with the full support of all the relevant state and county agencies), but the judge denied the adoption and went on a bizarre rant which revealed that his Mormon cult played a big role in the ruling (he's an LDS bishop).

    Had that been the extent of it he might have gotten away with it, but he also made it clear that he had done his own "independent research" on the issue of same-sex parenting using bogus and discredited stuff from Regnerus. That's a clear violation of judicial ethics and it resulted in his removal from family law and he retired shortly after.

    The part I found encouraging was that the judge was very widely condemned, even by the homophobic governor.

  • 46. Fortguy  |  December 4, 2016 at 2:53 pm

    How tenuous is Trump's electoral college margin? If Illinois ceded Lake County to Wisconsin, and Florida ceded the western panhandle counties of Escambia, Santa Rosa, and Okaloosa to Alabama, Hillary would have won both Florida and Wisconsin thereby winning an electoral majority.

    Christopher Ingraham, The Washington Post: How the electoral college gerrymanders the presidential vote

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