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Day 8 Preview: More Circular Logic And William Tam!

Right-wing Trial analysis Uncategorized

by Brian Leubitz

Yesterday, we saw the direct of Prof. Gary Segura go fairly smoothly. Dr. Segura testified about the relative political power of gays and lesbians as a class of citizens, and their level of political vulnerability. And then we hit cross-examination. As your friendly live-blogger, I thought my fingers were going to start bleeding at any moment. David Thompson, the attorney for the defendant-intervenors, rapid-fired questions, and Dr. Segura rapid fired them back.

Basically, Thompson went through every possible event, election, legislation, or judicial decision that could possibly be construed as a victory for the LGBT community and asked Dr. Segura whether he felt that represented political power for the community. Dr. Segura pointed out, time after time, that you have to view each victory in context, each election in context. For example, Annise Parker, the newly elected Mayor of Houston, is an out lesbian. However, she does not get benefits for her partner, and says that she will not take the lead on them. Furthermore, Parker lives in a state with no protections for LGBT employees, and little, if any, protections whatsoever for the community.

In Dr. Segura’s words, Parker lives not only in Houston, but also in Harris County, also in Texas, and also in the United States of America. And this pattern of going back over each fact looks set to continue for the fist 90 minutes or so of today’s testimony.

The real fun gets started after Dr. Segura steps down, as the now infamous William Tam takes the stand. Tam was originally one of the Defendant-Intervenors, until he decided he didn’t like people paying attention to the stench of crazy emanating from his person. That’s Dr. Tam to the right, and since he seems to not love the media attention as much as he did about 18 months ago, we had to rustle up a picture from back then.

Take this following series of greatest hits from Mr. Tam:

Question: “And it is your understanding that part of the gay agenda is legalizing underage sex?”
Answer: “Right.” (Page 43 of deposition)

“They lose no time in pushing the gay agenda — after legalizing same-sex marriage, they want to legalize prostitution. What will be next? On their agenda list is: legalize having sex with children.” (Pro-Prop. 8 email by Tam, page 78 of deposition)

“We hope to convince Asian-Americans that gay marriage will encourage more children to experiment with the gay lifestyle and that the lifestyle comes with all kinds of disease.” (Pro-Prop. 8 media interview by Tam, page 77 of deposition)

Dr. Tam’s testimony should be a thriller of the depths of the right-wing.  They’ve been trying to hide this guy, and this sect of their campaign. But, they can’t hide him forever, and the country should be in for a bit of an awakening.

Finally, if health and time permit, Gregory M. Herek, Ph.D. a Professor of Psychology at the University of California at Davis, will testify today. He will testify about the nature of sexual orientation, how mainstream mental health professionals and behavioral scientists regard homosexuality, benefits conferred by marriage, stereotypes relating to lesbians and gay men, stigma and prejudice directed at lesbians and gay men, the harm to lesbians and gay men and their families as a consequence of being denied the right to marry, and how the institution of domestic partnerships differs from that of marriage and is linked with antigay stigma.

Stay tuned right here for all the action…

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  • 1. Doug  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:32 am

    Can't wait!! Thank you thank you thank you!

    Really can't wait for Tam to get up there.

  • 2. Rebecca  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:34 am

    We have an Agenda? With a actual list?

    How do I get my copy? Is it only on paper or is it also available electronically as an iPhone app?

    I feel I am not a good Homosexual without an agenda.

    {{{removes tongue from cheek}}}

    Oh, today is going to be very entertaining.

  • 3. David Kimble  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:40 am

    LOL, thank you, Rebecca for your comment, I was drinking some coffee, when I began to read it and wouldn't ya' know – it came spewing out of my mouth!

  • 4. Rebecca  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:44 am

    My pleasure, and let me know if I owe you a keyboard.

  • 5. David Kimble  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:47 am

    Nah, I 'm good for it! LOL

  • 6. Alan E.  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:42 am

    Point 1: Equality
    Point 2: Better hair, clothes, etc.
    Point 3: Steal your children Improve the community in which we live.

  • 7. Exmormon-84084  |  January 21, 2010 at 2:10 am

    Rebecca, the agenda list is found in the Appendix of your Gay Handbook. ;-D

  • 8. Ozymandias  |  January 21, 2010 at 2:58 am

    There's a Gay Handbook?!

    Does that come in PDF format? 🙂

  • 9. Bill  |  January 21, 2010 at 3:07 am

    It's just a 1 page leaflet. It only contains one word:


  • 10. Mykelb  |  January 21, 2010 at 5:37 am

    Really, mine came with a copy of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights!

  • 11. jc  |  January 21, 2010 at 4:11 am

    a friend sent this to me several years ago…i apologize if it takes up a lot of space:

    The Homosexual Agenda
    >I know that many of you have heard Pat Robertson, Jerry Fallwell and others
    >speak of the "Homosexual Agenda," but no one has ever seen a copy of it.
    >Well, I have finally obtained a copy directly from the Head Homosexual.
    >It follows below:
    > 6:00 am Gym
    > 8:00 am Breakfast (oatmeal and egg whites)
    > 9:00 am Hair appointment
    > 10:00 am Shopping
    > 12:00 PM Brunch
    > 2:00 PM
    > 1) Assume complete control of the U.S. Federal, State and Local
    > Governments as well as all other national governments,
    > 2) Recruit all straight youngsters to our debauched lifestyle,
    > 3) Destroy all healthy heterosexual marriages,
    > 4) Replace all school counselors in grades K-12 with agents of
    > and Jamaican drug cartels,
    > 5) Establish planetary chain of "homo breeding gulags" where
    > imprisoned straight women are turned into artificially impregnated
    > factories to produce prepubescent love slaves for our devotedly
    > pederastic gay leadership,
    > 6) bulldoze all houses of worship, and
    > 7) Secure total control of the INTERNET and all mass media for the
    > exclusive use of child pornographers.
    > 2:30 PM Get forty winks of beauty rest to prevent facial wrinkles
    > stress of world conquest
    > 4:00 PM Cocktails
    > 6:00 PM Light Dinner (soup, salad, with Chardonnay)
    > 8:00 PM Theater
    > 11:00 PM Bed (du jour)?

  • 12. David Kimble  |  January 21, 2010 at 6:11 am

    OMG – that is hysterical! – thanks for sharing!

  • 13. Patrick Regan  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:35 am

    I'm sitting on the edge of my seat… literally.

  • 14. David Kimble  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:37 am

    Yeah, this should be really interesting!

  • 15. Faith W.  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:39 am

    The "minorities have too much power" trope is used all the time by conservatives to deflect attention from elites who DO have the power (those who own the means of production in society- those who don't need a paycheck to survive).
    In critical race theory, it's called "contradiction closing cases" where a prominent minority will be held up as a rationale for why there is no longer a need for "special rights." Obama is a major contradiction closing case for conservatives- now that he's elected, racism no longer exists and those who say it does are "whiners." Oprah is another example.
    The majority of gays and lesbians are working class and make less than heterosexuals, yet the survey results of upscale gay men's magazines reporting readership incomes way above the median are held up to show that gays and lesbians are privileged. In San Francisco, touted as THE gay friendly city, a significant portion of trans folks make BELOW the poverty level. But one contradiction closing case after another will be used to deny this fact. That's what this portion of the trial is about.

  • 16. Nick Griffin Miller  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:41 am

    Hmmm using the phrase "Waiting with baited breath" doesn't cut it for me, I guess…
    -as I feel more like the mouse waiting to pounce on the big old mean cat….:-)

  • 17. Raven H  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:42 am

    Y'all are killing my productivity at work. Lol. As a MA married Texan I can't wait to see what comes next. They have no idea how to live daily with the thought that my marriage andy life ( in that order) might be taken away be some zealot pushing his/her "moral" agenda.

  • 18. Jenny O  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:44 am

    I can't believe William Tam is going on the stand.. this will be interesting!

  • 19. Adam Christ  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:45 am

    Brian, Rick, Julia, and everyone else who helps to keep the Trial Tracker going, THANK YOU!!! You guys are awesome. You have allowed us all to feel as though we are actually sitting in the courtroom. I am truly grateful for people like you, and all that you stand for.

  • 20. Rebecca R  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:59 am

    To AdamC's comment, indeed thank you so much for the coverage and to AFER for their catalog of actual transcrpits for each trial day. Thank you ,Thank you, Thank you for all of your work and tenacity.

  • 21. Michael Herman  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:47 am

    Next gays will want to marry dogs, because we all know they have legal standing and can sign contracts!

  • 22. Alan E.  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:51 am

    Box turtles before dogs. Dogs must submit still and do our bidding so they can't be equal yet.

  • 23. Faith W.  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:51 am

    I read a funny passage in a book on same-sex marriage, referring to the "dog" thing (it's always dogs for some reason). It went something like this:

    "Opponents talk about marrying dogs so much that you almost have to wonder on their part if there isn't more to the saying "A dog is a man's best friend."

  • 24. Frijondi  |  January 21, 2010 at 4:21 am

    And a woman's, too — just ask Marjorie Knoller.

  • 25. michael  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:53 am

    Don't forget those oh so sexy toaster's we are just dying to wed! Once we can no appliance will be safe. I just proposed to my Washing Machine, he's been waiting so long for us to make it legal!-lol

  • 26. RAL  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:49 am


    Pugno has another one of his head shaking, hand wringing posts up at titled:

    A Head Shaker of an Afternoon

    Still no mention of the LDS Church.

    I'm sure they're glad about that — plus his Evangelicals readers (many of whom are virulently anti-Mormon) can retain maximum sympathy for the cause without opening THAT can of worms.

  • 27. Kathleen  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:57 am

    I was able to attend the trial yesterday. I livetweeted (in between all the incoming tweets from @nclrights and @katekendell and @johnsteen and @outfrontCO and others). It was a really fascinating experience. Of course it seems like our side is pounding the other, but we'll see how it goes when they start their case. I hope to make it up there again.

    We should throw a LOT of $love$ to Courage Campaign. I was able to meet Rick and thank him for this live blog.

    Needless to say, the bloggers are getting a little burnt out trying to keep this all up. All I was doing was the occasional tweet and my brain was fried by the end of the day. So send 'em your energy, however you can.

    I also was able to thank one of the plaintiff couples for doing this. And one of the guys in front of me made sure to shake Ted Olson's hand and say thanks.

    F5 F5 F5 ….


  • 28. Choinski  |  January 21, 2010 at 1:59 am

    I have a suggestion – take it or leave it – you should provide links to the Yes ob 8 Blog by Andy Pugno. Not that I agree with anything they are saying, but it does provide some facinating point-counterpoint views from the other side – what they consider 'a godd day', what they consider 'unfair', etc.

  • 29. Colt  |  January 21, 2010 at 2:07 am

    "Stench of crazy emanating from his person" … I just about died.

  • 30. Mike  |  January 21, 2010 at 2:40 am


    They kicked our butts in California, and in a number of other States.

    To us, they make absolutely NO SENSE.

    BUT their arguments (as crazy as they might be) are resonating with our fellow straight Americans.

    Remember that we are just began to preach "Equality for All"; BUT, the bigots have been preaching them the "evils" of homosexuality since an earlier age. This is what happenned at the ballot box ! The irrational fears took hold and votes changed at last minute.

    I would not be surprise at all if this matter ends up as a draw – the Courts recognizing the bigots' fears has having some sort of weight which counterbalances our right to full equality…thus the "status quo" of slow progress is an acceptable proposal for the American Society as a whole.

  • 31. Richard W. Fitch  |  January 21, 2010 at 5:23 am

    Good point, Mike. Even if every LGBT in the US supported and voted accordingly in every election, we are still out numbered by over whelming margins. Until we can enlist the support of moderates in the mainstream, the outcome we continue to be gloomy. Indiana is going thru this song and dance again. Happily, we won the previous round thru the support of a few major corps in the state, including Eli Lily and Cummins Engine.

  • 32. Holly  |  January 21, 2010 at 2:46 am

    Can't wait for Dr. Tam!! I feel a little guilty for finding him so entertaining.

  • 33. Jeff  |  January 21, 2010 at 2:51 am

    These lawyers are doing great !! I hope they bring up to Mr.Tam that Asians were looked down on, also asking witnesses when they "chose" to be heterosexual.

  • 34. Theresa  |  January 21, 2010 at 2:55 am

    i cannot wait to hear Mr. Tam on the stand. (and by 'Mr.' I really mean insane & extremist).

  • 35. Jeff  |  January 21, 2010 at 2:59 am

    Mike, I disagree. The whole idea of states having a Supreme Court is to protect the minority from tyrrany of the majority. If it was left to popular vote in the South, slavery,integration and inter-racial marriage would not exist there.

  • 36. Bill  |  January 21, 2010 at 3:05 am

    The sad part of this is that apparently 52% of California voters agree with Mr. Tam.

  • 37. Theresa  |  January 21, 2010 at 3:10 am

    This is definitely upsetting. The media's misrepresentation of the truth behind the "Prop 8 Altercation" (San Diego).

    This is clarification per the person accused of the assault (Prop 8 opponent):

    "For the record, I am a 53 year old diabetic who was attacked by a couple of my neighbors, and I was the one who was bruised and battered. My sign was on MY property, in my front yard–it was only 12" by 12" in size so it blocked nothing. The neighbor couple did NOT sustain any significant injuries; it was all phony and the fake charges were reduced to "disturbing the peace" , which is equivalent to playing loud music. It's disgusting how the police really lie to ruin a person's reputation. The investigator discovered that the man was waiting in his garage for me to get home, and he had previously remarked that he was going to get me. All because I opposed a discriminatory ballot measure."

  • 38. Callie  |  January 21, 2010 at 3:54 am

    I mentioned earlier that I was suspicious that a lot of those incidents were set-ups. This definitely makes those suspicions even stronger. I would NOT put it past these crazy haters.

  • 39. Theresa  |  January 21, 2010 at 3:17 am

    sorry it was completely out of topic (the story I posted), but I came across the story and was appalled by how media can be so misleading and making us look like the violent ones when we've been gay-bashed & murdered for YEARS for being gay.

  • 40. Dirk  |  January 21, 2010 at 3:18 am

    This is the part that concerns me the most. I just went to and read their blog posts. Their attorneys are taking what is happening in the court room and either turning it around, twisting the truth, or just omitting certain parts of what was actually said to make it look like they are winning, they are right, THEY ARE THE VICTIMS. With out this being televised (tv, or Youtube) the majority of the "Religoius" or "Right" that truely believe what they believe because it has been told to them over and over and over agian, that MIGHT have been touched if they could just have seen THE TRUETH of what was said (and really heard the really reasons for the hatred of gays and lesbians), who will read that pile of twisted, biased, hate filled blogs and believe it. From there on, NOTHING we say matters. We are the liars. We are the divients. We are the ones who want to "over turn the will of the people". And are reasons, and facts be damned because the trueth is subjective. Trueth is what they BELIEVE, not what really IS. And they will never go to try and read the opposite side as I just have and THINK for themselves. I am sorry for rambling, but that scares the hell out of me. Because if they do believe that crap, and don't learn to think for themselves, and learn the truth, then this battle is FAR from over no matter the out come from any COURT.
    One quote that rings in my head strongly is thus, "A man convinced against his will is of the SAME oppinion STILL."
    And one more, "Hatred and ignorance is easy. It takes no effort of thinking. Understanding and acceptance is hard. It takes effort to find out the trueth and realize ones own short comings."

  • 41. Alena  |  January 21, 2010 at 4:52 am

    For starters, I'm straight. Big deal. We voted no and I my whole family is very supportive! Even my 8 year old!
    (We <3 <3)!

    Anyway, I just want to say, i'm here everyday sucking down your blog! This is phenomenal! And so utterly transparent.
    I can't believe, to this day, that the bigotry presented from the Prop 8 team is so desperately trying to be disguised as something pure, pious and meaningful.
    It's just insane.

    I just want to thank you so so much for making this available. Ice your finger tips…. and keep up the good work! From my family & friends to you! We will prevail!

  • 42. Dieter M.  |  January 21, 2010 at 7:17 am

    HORRIFYING news people..I think we can safely bet how supremes are going to rule in the r-71 signature release, and gay marriage:
    AP – Bitterly divided, the Supreme Court ruled Thursday that big business can spend its millions to directly support or oppose candidates for president and Congress, a decision that sharply reverses a century-long trend to limit the political influence of corporations and labor unions. It remakes the political landscape just as crucial midterm election campaigns are getting under way.

    this is really not looking good

  • 43. Beth Taurasi  |  January 21, 2010 at 8:05 am

    There is nothing like the infamy of a man like Dr. Tam. He thinks that prostitution will come next after marriage. Again, I'd like to point out that a possible consequence for denying gays and lesbians the right to marry will be denying disabled people the right to marry, especially blind and physically handicapped women and men who will be stereotyped as having developmental incapabilities and bad habits which are unattractive. I know plenty of gay men who deserve the right to marry because, well, they're people. Dr. Tam seems to make animals and items out of gay people, not see them as people. He is a strong Christian, it seems, but the Christian way of thinking should be about tolerance and acceptance as long as it doesn't hurt someone. What would Jesus say about this whole Prop 8 trial? We just have to see and pray about this.

  • 44. Dennis  |  January 22, 2010 at 1:30 am

    Attention Prop8 Trial Tracker bloggers:

    I am trying to follow this case by reading your blogs but you continually abbreviate and omit stuff so much that it makes it hard to follow what you write. Please don't assume we can fill in those missing blanks. Please write complete sentences. I'm glad you're doing this but at times I can't figure out what you're saying because you stop mid sentence and don't include an entire examination or cross examination. Maybe you could have two people there – one following the attorney comments – the other following the witness statements.

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