Equality On TrialLiveblogging Day 8: Part V Tam continues

Liveblogging Day 8: Part V Tam continues

January 21, 2010

By couragecampaign

Liveblogging

By Rick Jacobs

[Okay, I’m sweating. And sick. This is the crux of it all. Please read this. Please.]

David Boies (B): You say here that if we lose Prop. 8 “they” will lose no time to push the gay agenda?

William Tam (T): Yes. They will.

B: You say here that the City of SF is under the rule of homosexuals. Do you believe that?

T: Yes.

B: Who?

T: Tom Ammiano was supervisor.

B: Was the mayor homosexual?

T: I don’t think so.

B: I don’t think so either.

B: You said that you thought Prop. 8 would lead to legalizing prostitution. Why?

T: Measure K in SF. I saw some homosexuals hanging around there.

B: You know that Measure K has nothing to do with Prop. 8.

T: Yes.

B: You told people that next will be legalizing sex with children. That’s the homosexual agenda. Do you believe this?

T: Yes.

[Up above, Tam says that Boies is using his legal expertise to pin my words in way I did not intend.]

T: Asks and B gives permission to talk. “I’m afraid of the liberal trend. Canada and Europe are liberal and they allow age of consent 13 or 14 and children can have sex with adults and each other.”)

B: You did not mention age of consent in the fourteen words you wrote?

T: No.

B: Age of consent has nothing to do with this [But Tam admitted that he told people that’s what would happen if 8 lost.]
Age of consent did not change because of passage of ss marriage in Canada or Europe, right?

T: Canada right. I cannot say about Europe.

B: You said that if Prop. 8 passes, California will fall into Satan’s hands.

T: Yes, I said that. (and that refers to ss marriage).

[UPDATE] 2:46

[Prop. 8 objects to several pages of exhibit because some of them appear to relate to articles that were written years before Prop. 8 and not particularly relevant to this case.]

Judge: Prop. 8 mentioned throughout.

P8: Yes, but this appears to have been produced by plaintiff. Some of these articles that are written in Chinese and translated and were written many years before Prop.8 and are not relevant. Appears there is Chinese article entitled “Homosexuality is not Equal Right.” (She’s having trouble finding her way through the documents.) Article written by witness before Prop. 8 so not germane.

Judge: Article written by witness?

P8: Yes. I believe its article they pulled down off of his website, his Bill Tam website. Not prop. 8 website. Article he wrote years ago.

Judge: I gather this is a document that came from the witness? Mr. Boies can you explain how this was put together and all that?

B: The first three pages of this are affidavits of accuracy from the translator. Fourth page says Why should we Support Prop. 8?

T: I did not write that.

B: That’s your testimony?

B: Look at document and handwriting. Organization of which you are secretary, right?

T: I did not write it. Someone who was in charge of printing and putting this together.

B: What was the purpose?

T: Well, to support Prop. 8.

B: So this is the organization of which you are secretary and it was written to support Prop.8?

T: Yes.

B: Did you write this document (that is translated from Chinese)?

T: Yes.

B: When?

T: 2004.

B: What was the purpose in writing?

T: In response to I think Mayor Newsom’s passing out of the same sex marriage licenses.

B: Was this also distributed by onemanonewoman.net.

T: No. This was Chinese article I wrote and put on my website among 60 other Chinese websites. BillTam.org

B; I would offer the uh four pages that we begins why should we support Prop. 8 as 2343A and then I would offer the remainder of the document that begins with Harm to Children of SS Marriage as plaintiff’s 2343B.

Prop. 8 objects; Judge overrules.

[UPDATE] 2:54

[This room has about thirty people in it now. It’s very quiet. Tam is the source of the real thought of whole campaign.]

B: Document says, “Science proves that homosexuality is a changeable sexual preference.” What science were you referring to?

T: I did not write this.

B: Do you know what science is being referred to?

T: Yes. Have you heard of Dr. Spitzer? Used to very prominent physician who in 1973 who was one of persons who promote that homosexuality is not a disease. Because of that, what I learned is that homosexuality is not a disease, just a part of normal human behavior. That’s what I learned. Later on, the same Dr. Spitzer produced evidence that some homosexuals did turn back and return to heterosexuality. Changeable sexual preference. It is not genetically wired.

B: Did you understand that Dr. Spitzer not genetically wired?

T: No. Francis Collins said that. He’s the one who mapped the human genome.

B: Does Collins believe that sexual orientation can be changed?

T: I saw it on the NARTH site [that’s where Ryan from yesterday went to have conversion therapy)]

B: You think NARTH is an objective website?

T: Yes. It’s reliable.

B: What does American Psychological Association say about this?

T: I don’t know.

B: You never tried to find out?

T: No.

B: You believe that NARTH is a good source?

T: Yes. I rely on the NARTH.

[UPDATE] 3:12

[It’s a pleasure to watch David Boies at work. He is persistent and consistent and knows precisely what he is doing. I’m really glad we have him on our side.]

T: Homosexuals are not minority.

B: How many are there?

T: I am a minority. Minority is based on skin color.

B: How many are there?

T: 2-4% of population.

B: So they are a minority?

T: yes.

B: Do you believe that homosexuals should be discriminated against?

T: No.

B: You wrote below that homosexuals are not a minority.

T: Let me check Chinese. I said homosexuals are not a racial minority.

B: Let’s offer the Chinese as 2343C.

B: San Jose News has quote that is attributed to you. Is that in fact what you said?

T: Yes.

B: (paraphrase of quote, but really close) You hope to convince Asian Americans that if Prop. 8 fails, kids will be attracted to homo lifestyle and “that lifestyle comes with all sorts of disease.”

B: Exhibit 2601A.

[The judge’s head is practically in his binder. He has silver gray hair, a red tie today over white shirt beneath his robes. He’s highlighting with his yellow highlighter and making notes on separate paper. He’s paying concerted attention.]

T: This is document I received from medical Dr. named Lao Han Kit. He sent me an article that he wrote. (Article attached as 2601B).

T: Identifies another article he wrote. 2601C seems to be a translation of 2601B.

B: This is translation from your file?

T: Could be. I don’t remember. Let me read this article.

B: It’s headed “Reasons Why we Do not Support SS Marriage” by presence Ministry.

T: Chinese Christian organization in LA. I know their president and went to one of their conferences. I was a guest there.

B: This was rally as part of the campaign that you as Protect Marriage dot com was waging to pass Prop. 8. You say, “It’s time the church rises up to face the forces of evil.”

T: I did not write it. I don’t know who are the forces of evil.

B: Did you invite Mr. Prentice to attend the rally?

T: Yes.

B: And you did not see this document at the time?

T: Many people were working on the rally. My role was pretty small. I had my own organization to attend to.

B: Your organization TFC was a sponsor and you asked Mr. Prentice to attend?

T: Other people.

B: Who?

T: Chairman invited. I did not know any of these speakers, Tony Perkins.

B: What was your role?

T: My role was very small. I invited Ron Prentice because I know them.

B: Did you meet the speakers?

T: Yes, I met them but they would not even let me speak.

B: Did they tell you why you could not speak?

B: And just to be clear, Dr. Tam, is that before today you have never seen this flyer?

T: It might have gone in front of my eyes. It might have passed by my desk. So many came by that I did not pay attention to all of them and this is one of them.

[UPDATE] 3:27

B: Shows press invitation to this rally. Who sent it out?

T: I did.

B: Says on this press invitation that you were one of the two contacts. Is that correct? Does this refresh your memory as to how involved you were?

T: I’m one of the contacts because I have Chinese press contacts.

B: This press invitation did not go out without your knowledge.

T: I knew about it.

B: You personally sent out an email about this rally?

T: Yes.

B: You listed who the speakers were despite the fact that you say you did not know the speakers?

T: Yeah, that’s true. I did not know some of the speakers.

B: Here’s a flyer that says Prop. 8 protects against social, moral decay. What is the social, moral decay?

T: Well, from Christian angle, homosexuality or sex between two persons of the same sex is a sin.

B: You were saying that Prop. 8 protects against homosexuality?

T: No. But I agree with this. If same sex marriage is legal, it would encourage children to explore same sex as their marriage partner. From Asian as well as Christian angle, we think this is social, moral decay.

B: Second document which is from 1man1woman dot net, more specific. Says that if same sex marriage passes it will lead to incest, pedophilia and polygamy. Do you agree with that?

T: Yes.

B: That’s what you told people to get them to vote for Prop. 8?

T: Yes.

B: Your paper says that after Netherlands legalized SS marriage, Netheralands legalized incest and polygamy. Do you believe that?

T: Same sex marriage may not have led to legalization of incest and polygamy, but it happened.

B: Who told you that?

T: I found it on the Internet. I did not write this that polygamy was legalized in 2005.

B: You put it out there to convince people to vote for Prop. 8. Did you ever look up the law?

T: Yes, there was different documents that shows that’s true.

B: So after Netherlands legalized same sex marriage, legalized polygamy and incest.

T: I’m not sure about incest. That may have been legal before same sex marriage passed.

B: If that’s the case, then it has nothing to do with same sex marriage.

T: Yes, but it shows that if countries are loose with sex it leads to this…

[NOTE] This thread was getting long and the comments full, so I moved to a new one.

Tags: David Boies, Judge Walker, William Tam

Liveblogging Day 8: Part IV Afternoon session Liveblogging Day 8: Part VI more from Tam

1076402 Comments2010-01-21+22%3A37%3A14couragecampaign

1. Ann S. | January 21, 2010 at 7:39 am

Hang in there, Rick. This is so important.
2. Barb | January 21, 2010 at 7:42 am

I agree, hang in there, you are doing a terrific job and are helping the world see this as it happens. Thank you so very much for being there for us all.
3. Jenny O | January 21, 2010 at 7:46 am

I second that! Thank you so much for everything you are doing! Without you guys we would be completely in the dark to what's happening. I can't thank you enough. Stay strong! You're doing great work!
4. Ann S. | January 21, 2010 at 7:40 am

Thank you, thank you.
5. Steve | January 21, 2010 at 7:43 am

This. So much this.
6. Tom | January 21, 2010 at 7:40 am

Church Lady: Could it be…SATAN?!
7. Ray Harwick | January 21, 2010 at 7:46 am

LOL!!!!!!
8. michael | January 21, 2010 at 7:47 am

LMAO>>>>Hilarious!!
9. Jan | January 21, 2010 at 7:51 am

OMG! LOL…Too funny!
10. Colt | January 21, 2010 at 7:49 am

LOL! Can we somehow get Dana Carvey in on the reenactments? Little Church Lady commentary from the corner perhaps? Honestly though I can't tell whether to laugh uproariously at how out-and-out STUPID Tam is, or cry because there are so many people who think just like him.
11. John Hawk | January 21, 2010 at 8:48 am

I so glad that everyone is seeing and hearing this. We must go forward with this information to the East Coast and everywhere. They are using the same lies to beat and defeat gay marriage with the same information they used here. So everyone needs to send this information so everyone will hear the truth about the groups who want to stop gay marriage. We must start a truth movement!!!
12. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 7:53 am

Perfect. Just perfect.
13. InMA | January 21, 2010 at 8:00 am

Awesome!
14. Ben | January 21, 2010 at 7:40 am

At some point he's GOT to ask "And what basis do you have for any of these beliefs? How can you make the connection between two people getting the benefits of marriage and satan? How does allowing prostitution have anything to do with marriage?"
15. Sam | January 21, 2010 at 7:43 am

How does stopping more people from getting married (and thus lowering levels of sex outside of marriage, which I've heard the church is against) promote Satan?
Oh, that's right, it really, really doesn't.
16. Ron | January 21, 2010 at 8:47 am

And he needs to ask how in hell he ever got a Dr. degree in anything being since he beliefs everything he reads on the internet from groups like NARTH but the the APA?
17. Christopher in San F | January 21, 2010 at 7:41 am

Great job Rick! You're doing a wonderful and extremely important job….keep up the great work!
18. Alice | January 21, 2010 at 7:41 am

Rick, we will never stop being grateful for what you and the rest of the team are doing. Justice will prevail.
19. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 7:42 am

Of course the age of consent hasn't changed in Europe. In my – very liberal – country, the age of consent is still 16. WTF are these people even on about?

Thanks for doing this, Rick. This is so very important.
20. Ben | January 21, 2010 at 7:48 am

Check out this map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e…

Note that some of the most conservative areas of the world (Latin America, Middle East, parts of Asia) have some of the lowest ages of consent.

My point is that age of consent law have much more to do with culture and much less to do with political ideology.
21. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 7:51 am

I agree. Then again, these people deliberately seem to want to make NO SENSE AT ALL. Yeah, here in Europe, we all have sex with children. And box turtles, too. What on earth…?
22. fiona64 | January 21, 2010 at 7:54 am

Heh. I review books and was just offered a volume about a Yemeni girl who is *divorced* at age 10 … and the hell she went through to get that divorce. Yep, age of consent is about culture.
23. InMA | January 21, 2010 at 8:02 am

No matter the age of consent laws, why is the controversy applying to homosexuals only?

Oh wait. Nevermind. I forgot the Religious Right told us we're all pedophiles.
24. Lisa | January 21, 2010 at 7:50 am

The age of consent is 13 in Spain. Just looked it up. There's also gay marriage going on. This is where SATAN lives, why would he go to CA?
25. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 7:52 am

Ah yes, I just saw, I didn't know that about Spain! Of course Spain is also one of the most religious and traditional countries in Western Europe. Hmmm.

Yet age of consent in Belgium and the Netherlands, which are obviously EVIL STATES OF LIBERAL EVIL is higher. Odd, that.
26. bJason | January 21, 2010 at 7:56 am

Santa Claus (the former Bishop of Turkey) also lives in Spain. Hmmm…..
27. Jenny O | January 21, 2010 at 8:46 am

@ Lies
Actually Spain is becoming increasing liberal. There was a huge backlash from the Franco era and people are becoming more and more liberal. I lived in Spain for several months in 2007 and went to Mass there a few times. The only people who attend are elderly women (mostly). Most young adults, and many middle aged adults as well, identify with the Catholic Church only as a culture and not as laws to live by. I'll give you that I was living in Barcelona and I'm sure it's different in the country side (as in the US), but the general attitude of the country (both from my history classes while there and from my own perception) was that it's becoming less and less a 'Catholic' country.
28. Spaniard | January 21, 2010 at 9:42 am

I'm from Spain, so I might be able to help 😉
It's true, age of consent here is 13, although if you are under 16 and an adult is consider to have mislead you into consenting having sex with him/her, that would be a crime… don't really know how to explain the legal part of that, but it seems it's something that has a special protection under the law.

In relation with with we being liberal or not… well, no easy answer there. Barcelona, Madrid, and some other big cities are pretty liberal for most part. I think we keep being quite conservative as a country and some of our laws are waaaaaay more liberal than most people… but, even if conservative in some stuff, I think we are less of a catholic country every day. Oh, and we would have never approved same sex marriage (and adoption, and every single thing, we are absolutely equally before the law) here if on the ballot… (no data to support this, only my perception).
I don't know, that might be me seeing my country through the eyes of someone from a (mild)conservative family who's way more liberal than them… 🙂

btw, it's so cool to be able to follow this trial. I've lived in the US, have friends there, might want to live there some day, and even if none of these were true, I feel this is so important for all of us anywhere in the world… We have better laws in my country right now, but we need people to hear to this kind of stuff and change their minds and hearts… so much bigotry still alive here too…
thanks for the great work!! This feels so important, even from the distance!
29. Randy | January 21, 2010 at 7:43 am

There it is! Every irrational fear that believers have about gay people. It's even uglier in the light of a court room. Thank you Rick. You are doing an amazing thing for gay people and the world. I admire and envy you.
30. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 7:44 am

I wish I could hear this in person too. Although I might get kicked out for saying "Really?" or "Is he serious?" too many times.
31. Elizabeth | January 21, 2010 at 7:52 am

me too. I would probably have to fight the urge to throw my iphone at the witness. A lot.
32. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 7:43 am

You should push this testimony as a reason to donate to CC. I am sending more money right now!
33. James | January 21, 2010 at 7:49 am

Dammit you read my mind. I sent a few $$ yesterday, and just might do so again today!
34. mem | January 21, 2010 at 7:44 am

Thank you so much for doing this, Rick. I can only imagine how emotionally wrenching this is for you. And you don't give up! You continue to give and give.
35. BMc | January 21, 2010 at 7:44 am

B: You said that you thought Prop. 8 would lead to legalizing prostitution. Why?

T: Measure K in SF. I saw some homosexuals hanging around there.

B: You know that Measure K has nothing to do with Prop. 8.

T: Yes.

1.) WHAAAAAAATTT!!!?? 2.) He admits to misleading.
36. Sandy | January 21, 2010 at 8:03 am

Wow, he saw homosexuals in SF?!?!?!
37. Andrew | January 21, 2010 at 8:47 am

Oh, and I'm sure he identified these homosexuals by the 'Hello! I'm gay' nametags they wore, right? I mean,this guy is a Doctor, so he couldn't possibly have resorted to homophobic stereotyping, right?
38. Daniel L | January 21, 2010 at 7:44 am

talk about getting grilled. I wonder what was on the deposition tapes. Also what do you think protectmarriage would say if a witness on our side had said "he is using his legal expertise to pin my words in way I did not intend."
39. Raymond | August 6, 2010 at 2:46 am

You can view the video evidence for the case at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WGKg7R0e0I
40. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 7:45 am

No wonder he wanted to drop out. He didn't have a chance.
41. michael | January 21, 2010 at 7:50 am

No he didn't that is why they are trying to distance themselves from him.
42. abbe | January 21, 2010 at 7:45 am

Per Wikipedia, age of consent in Canada is 16, FYI.
43. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 7:47 am

And that's exactly the same as in most of Europe. In fact I'm fairly sure some countries in Europe have it at 17. These people have no idea what they're talking about, as usual.
44. Lisa | January 21, 2010 at 7:53 am

Huh, I just looked up Germany (where I live) and it says, age of consent here is 14. Didn't know that, didn't much care when I was 14.
45. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 7:54 am

Correction, apparently Spain does have it at 13. However, that is very much the exception and not the rule.
46. Sergio | January 21, 2010 at 7:45 am

Wow, this is too much. I mean, it sad to think that someone like Tam is like a leader to some =

Sad things indeed.
47. michael | January 21, 2010 at 7:51 am

Well they thought that if he could use Chinese to hide it wouldn't be found out too!!!
48. Chris | January 21, 2010 at 7:45 am

Canada… Europe… Utah
49. Jane | January 21, 2010 at 7:50 am

@Chris, lol Utah!
50. fiona64 | January 21, 2010 at 7:55 am

And, apparently, certain compounds in Colorado, Texas and Arizona …

::snerk::
51. Jay | January 21, 2010 at 7:45 am

T: Asks and B gives permission to talk. “I’m afraid of the liberal trend. Canada and Europe are liberal and they allow age of consent 13 or 14 and children can have sex with adults and each other.”)

B: You did not mention age of consent in the fourteen words you wrote?

T: No.

B: Age of consent has nothing to do with this [But Tam admitted that he told people that’s what would happen if 8 lost.]
Age of consent did not change because of passage of ss marriage in Canada or Europe, right?

T: Canada right. I cannot say about Europe.

…good to know he's basing his ideas on absolutely no research whatsoever.
52. CajunBoyLgb | January 21, 2010 at 7:59 am

Did anyone else notice–

The age of consent in China itself is *gasp* FOURTEEN?!?!?

Now who's calling WHOM child molesters?!?
53. elw | January 21, 2010 at 8:41 am

nice. please write this to Tam's lameass website.
54. k | January 21, 2010 at 7:45 am

thank you so much, rick for doing this. we all appreciate your efforts greatly.
55. Anthony N | January 21, 2010 at 7:46 am

Tell ya what, if gays are more likely to molest children then str8's, I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn to sell you….

This guy is a complete douchbag. A waste of a soul. There is a special spot in hell for him…Hotter, more evil and the pitchfork is way more pointed then the normal one…Rot in hell you bastard.

Rick, thx for this blog….It is really cool!!!
56. Jagger | January 21, 2010 at 7:46 am

I feel like everytime Tam says something, Boies should jump onto the stand, wave a hand in his face and yell, "DENIED!"

I mean, it'd just be a simplified version of what's already happening.
57. Tom | January 21, 2010 at 7:54 am

Ooh…I'd love to see that!
58. Badcowboy | January 21, 2010 at 7:46 am

Is that a cross he is hanging on – he is getting crucified – and I am ashamed to admit – I am enjoying it.
59. Ted | January 21, 2010 at 7:46 am

The only recent changes I can recall in age of consent in EU were the *equalizing* of heterosexual & homosexual ages of consent.

God, I wish someone would throw a shoe at this guy (j/k). He really does make my blood boil. Lying, fear mongering, hypocritical douchebag.

Add to that: oxygen thief. Glad to see him getting raked over the coals so thoroughly.
60. niall blehein | January 21, 2010 at 8:09 am

That is correct. Nowhere in Europe is the age of consent lower for gay people than straights. Additionally there is no research to suggest that the incidence of child molestation has increased in any country where marriage equality has been introduced.

All the the stories coming out of the woodwork , especially in Ireland, relate to times where gays had no rights and no ability to speak up (homosexuality was only decriminalized in Ireland in Jan 1993)
61. Tempa | January 21, 2010 at 7:47 am

Yes, thanks for doing this! This (as in Tam's testimony) is so deeply disturbing that I can only laugh at this point. What happened to the separation of church and state again? And finally, what if you just don't believe in G*d?
62. Russell V | January 21, 2010 at 7:47 am

Thanks, Rick–this is heart-wrenching stuff to read, but SO important!!
63. M.E. Graves | January 21, 2010 at 7:48 am

I almost punched out a window in my house while reading this. How can lying this egregiously about their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters not be condemned in the Bible they claim to believe? I just keep telling myself, "Not every Christian is like this… not every Christian is like this…" These people are supposed to be the arbiters of good and evil. Don't they f*cking know that lying in this way creates prejudices that allow people to justify murdering gays and lesbians?

Sorry, just started rants. I just want to let out a stream of explicative statements, but I know that doesn't help. I so want them to make this into some sort of movie or something. I hope the reenactments go viral.
64. Daniel L | January 21, 2010 at 7:52 am

I would pay so much money to see the actor that plays Leslie Chow from The Hangover portray a wildly inaccurate but flamboyant version of Bill Tam in the reenactment.
65. Elizabeth | January 21, 2010 at 7:56 am

win.
and I have to keep that image in my head in order not to go mad reading this.
66. Sam | January 21, 2010 at 8:09 am

Ken Jeung as Tam = win.
67. Daniel L | January 21, 2010 at 8:09 am

yeah that image is helping to keep me sane as well
68. Sam | January 21, 2010 at 8:09 am

Jeong***

He could jump naked off the stand and start yelling. It might make more sense than what he's saying now…
69. michael | January 21, 2010 at 7:53 am

What about bearing false witness????

SIN SIN SIN SIN SINNER!!!!!!
70. Marlene Bomer | January 21, 2010 at 4:03 pm

Didn’t you know, Michael??? Didn’t you get the memo???

Because all of these righteous, holy people are doing the lord’s work, they’ve been declared by the religious reicht elite to be exempt from that commandment!!
71. Liz | January 21, 2010 at 7:48 am

It's surreal to see this guy admitting that he said these things…until I realize that he actually *still* believes they're true.
What petition can I sign to prevent that kind of nonsense being taught in schools?
72. Lain | January 21, 2010 at 7:48 am

I just want to write this out one more time, to immortalize it:

"I SAW SOME HOMOSEXUALS HANGING AROUND THERE."

This is TESTIMONY. In COURT. This is somebody's rationale for something. That he "saw some homosexuals hanging around there."

I really cannot say whether this is comedy or tragedy. But thank you, Rick et al., for bringing it to us, blow by excruciating(ly funny?) blow.
73. Liz | January 21, 2010 at 7:50 am

Word.
74. Marc | January 21, 2010 at 7:52 am

How does he know they were homosexuals?
75. Lain | January 21, 2010 at 7:57 am

Skinny jeans?

Alternative lifestyle haircuts?

Horns?

The deadly scent of reason and justice?
76. jayjaylanc | January 21, 2010 at 8:00 am

The men were wearing heels and makeup, dropping their wrists, lisping, eyeing babies in the crowd with lust and spitting on a cross.
77. Colt | January 21, 2010 at 8:00 am

Boies should ask!
78. M.E. Graves | January 21, 2010 at 8:19 am

How do they check their nails?

Are they wearing sandals and listening to Celine Dion or Shania Twain on their ice blue tinted Ipods?

Do they have Cosmos in their hands?
79. Susan R Barnes | January 21, 2010 at 7:48 am

I cannot wait to see what spin Protect Marrieage will put on Tam's testimony.
80. Jan | January 21, 2010 at 7:53 am

Me too…
81. Marlene Bomer | January 21, 2010 at 9:08 am

Easy — Holy Christian martyr, Tam, who withdrew from our holy cause because he feared retaliation by the hated, perverted enemy, was forced by this godless court lead by this activist judge to give testimony protected by attorney/client and religious privilege!

Donate now so we can campaign to have this activist judge impeached!
82. Alyssa | January 21, 2010 at 7:48 am

No wonder they didn't want this trial to be taped and posted on youtube. This shit would be viral so fast.

Thanks Rick for everything you are doing. It is greatly appreciated.
83. Tom | January 21, 2010 at 7:59 am

I've almost thought about printing today's transcript out and reading it word for word on YouTube once the actual transcript goes up on AFER – Think anyone would watch?
84. Sergio | January 21, 2010 at 8:12 am

I would if you did some funny voice for Tam 😛
And even if you didnt, it's easier to leave Youtube on a background tab to listen while doing some other stuff o.o
85. PM, in the UK | January 21, 2010 at 7:48 am

He just keeps getting creepier, as do his faux-facts.

It boggles the mind how willfully ignorant people must be to follow (or become) a person like this.
86. Rachel | January 21, 2010 at 7:48 am

thank you for this incredible service you are doing for the public. as a faithful member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints, AND a staunch supporter of marriage equality, i am sickened by this man's use of religious rhetoric to further a hateful agenda. thank you, a million times over.
87. James | January 21, 2010 at 7:59 am

Rachel, Thank you for your comments. It says that all people have the ability to be free thinkers, but not all choose to be. We gentiles often think of Mormons as a singular bloc, but of course, that is not true. Also I appreciate the small gesture in not capitalizing lds.
88. David Kimble | January 21, 2010 at 8:01 am

you are most welcome, Rachel! Thanks for the vote of support of this website.
89. Rachel | January 21, 2010 at 8:27 am

and, fyi, there are lots of us! please check out http://www.mormonsformarriage.com to see the other side of lds politics on this issue. there are a lot of resources there that can hopefully give some insight.
90. Will H | January 21, 2010 at 7:49 am

People will look back at this and not believe how stupid we "we" were. I can't believe this stuff comes out of peoples mouth!!!
91. Chris S. | January 21, 2010 at 7:50 am

While I'm sad to say I'm not surprised people think this way, I'm so happy to see it vocalized in a courtroom like this. Rick, what you are doing is so valuable. Thank you for all you are doing. Let us not be hurt by these words – let us see them for what they are… ignorance, and let us continue to stand up for our rights! Keep up the great work!
92. Jeff | January 21, 2010 at 7:50 am

The website is apparently billtam.homestead.com, according to TheAdvocateMag on twitter.
93. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 7:57 am

I would encourage people to resist sending emails to him. This would only add fuel to their fire.
94. David Kimble | January 21, 2010 at 8:04 am

AGREED! Thanks for saying that Alan E.
95. Allison | January 21, 2010 at 8:08 am

…homestead.com still exists? I think I made a website there in middle school.
96. allanj | January 21, 2010 at 7:50 am

Rick, thank you so much for doing this for us all.

I'm in a whole turmoil of emotions just reading it, it must be so much more difficult for those of you who are there.
Please know that you (and your colleagues) are very much appreciated.

I used to think that these people were just misguided fools. Now I know that they are evil. This is a moral issue and they are on the wrong side – spreading malice of the worst sort.
97. Karin | January 21, 2010 at 7:50 am

I am on the edge of my seat, going from CC to Firedoglake hitting F5 on both. What happens next?! It's like the cliffhanger of our lives going on here! I'm thrilled the judge is getting to hear all this animosity and hatred.

Rick, thank you for getting this information out to the masses. You must be physically and emotionally exhausted. THANK YOU CC for all you're doing!

F5 F5 F5
98. michael | January 21, 2010 at 7:55 am

Me too!!!
99. James | January 21, 2010 at 8:02 am

I can't wait until they replay this on Law and Order!
100. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:20 am

I wonder which Law and Order they'd use this material.

SVU, the regular one or that other one on USA
101. Jay | January 21, 2010 at 7:50 am

Also, thank you again, Rick, for doing this. I should be in bed right now but I have to know what is going to happen. I feel like this is, as you say, the crux.
102. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 7:51 am

I am not wasting any tears on this guy.
103. SFMary | January 21, 2010 at 7:51 am

Awesome job, Rick! Hang in there.
104. Jorge A. | January 21, 2010 at 7:51 am

I'm just waiting for someone to ask "where did you get this copy of the homosexual agenda?" I've been waiting to get my hands on one for the past four years!
105. Tom | January 21, 2010 at 7:55 am

So have I – I heard the gays are giving away a free toaster this month if you sign up for the Gay Agenda (c)
106. Liz | January 21, 2010 at 8:00 am

LMAO!!! *face turns red* 😀
107. James | January 21, 2010 at 8:04 am

Silly people. This is the Gay Agenda:

Snap up all the best china and crystal patterns for our weddings so that only the uglier and less desirable patterns remain for the "opposite" couples.
108. Tom | January 21, 2010 at 8:08 am

NO, now you've gone and spoiled it! How will I get my free toaster now?
109. Daniel L | January 21, 2010 at 8:21 am

You only got a toaster? They offered me a flat screen with a two year subscription. aaaand it was still 40% off the cover price!!
110. M Keane | January 21, 2010 at 9:14 am

hmmm, If I go Bi do I still get a gift?
111. SpoonmanTX | January 21, 2010 at 7:55 am

Nearly fell out of my chair Jorge… thank you!

But from a previous thread I was told it was located in the appendix of your Gay Manual upon your initiation.
112. michael | January 21, 2010 at 7:56 am

Tam must have got your copy…NOT…..lol
113. pearlheartgtr | January 21, 2010 at 7:52 am

Bill Tam's site: http://billtam.homestead.com/home.html
114. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 7:58 am

As I mentioned above, I would encourage people to resist sending emails to him. This would only add fuel to their fire.
115. pearlheartgtr | January 21, 2010 at 8:06 am

Now this is a man who bought his doctorate on the black market. Probably from the same people selling bootleg movies on the corner.
116. pearlheartgtr | January 21, 2010 at 8:07 am

oops posted in wrong spot.
117. Sandy | January 21, 2010 at 8:09 am

I second the motion. They desperately want to be viewed as victims
118. Bob | January 21, 2010 at 1:01 pm

Too late. I couldn't resist:

—

Mr. Tam,

After watching your testimony in the Prop8 trial today, all I can say is that I'm astounded you have the nerve to use the title, "Doctor" in front of your name.

I'm well-aware you hold a genuine Ph.D., but, if anything, that should make you feel more embarrassed.

I would expect someone who has gone through the rigorous learning and training in the scientific method to obtain a Ph.D. to hold themselves to the highest standards of excellence.

It was totally shocking to see you, a man of letters, toss out poorly researched, widely discredited and outright incorrect "facts" in support of your Prop8 campaign.

Stating "Someone told me" or "I saw it on the Internet" to support your horrible conflation of gay marriage with pederasty, prostitution, incest, polygamy and a host of other staw-man arguments was nothing short of disgusting.

It took me less than 10 minutes to research a few of your claims.

1. Since gay marriage in Canada has been permitted, the age of consent has INCREASED, not decreased.

2. The Netherlands DOES NOT permit polygamous "marriages." Yes, the do have a social contract where people that cohabit can share in various rights and responsibilities, but this IN NO WAY is a marriage contract.
http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2005/10/is-polyga…

– Your claim that homosexuals are 12 times more likely to be child molesters is also PATENTLY false, and is not supported by any of the widely recognized peer reviewed studies. I followed the links from your 1man1woman web site to see where this data came from. Big surprise: a "paper" written by groups aligned with your organization(s).

I also took the time to download and translate a handful of your Chinese language documents regarding homosexuality, same sex marriage, protecting children from sexual predators, etc.

Again, all display an appalling lack of intellectual rigor or scientific basis.

Look, it's obvious you've got very fundamental/evangelical views against homosexuality. I'm fine with that — it's your right.

What I'm NOT fine with is you distorting science or sloppily repackaging false and inflammatory conservative rhetoric as "science."

Even if we disagree on topics related to homosexuality, I would hope that as an honorable academic AND as a Christian, you would take enough personal responsibility to read the voluminous Scientific evidence that refutes your most ridiculous claims.

Either that, or perhaps it's time to surrender your Ph.D., because you've abandoned all that it stands for.
119. rpx | January 21, 2010 at 7:52 am

Wait wait, hold the horses I got it! Surely he must be talking about the Netherlands when he generalizes about countries in Europe lowering the age of concent to 13. For a little country like the Netherlands it is hystical how the pro Prop8 keep bringing them up. It has to be the Netherlands LOL. I'll go look it up on Google and see what I find. I know more about the Netherlands now than I ever thought I would know and we dont' live far from them in France.
120. Johan | January 21, 2010 at 8:05 am

Age of consent in The Netherlands is 16. On par with most of Europe.
121. SpoonmanTX | January 21, 2010 at 7:54 am

Why doesn't the Prop 8 side get a sign that says "Objection" and Judge Walker get one that says "Overruled" and just hang them around their necks for the reminder of this testimony?

It would save a lot of time, don't you think?
122. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 7:59 am

They are allowed a standing objection, why can't the judge have a standing overruling?
123. Tom | January 21, 2010 at 8:09 am

Pretty much, the judge has to decide each objection raised on its merits, no matter how offbeat it may seem.
124. Shannon | January 21, 2010 at 7:54 am

Rick, you are doing a stellar job. Thank you so much for doing this.
125. Beth | January 21, 2010 at 7:54 am

Rick! You rock! Keep up the amazing work and THANK YOU.
126. Frijondi | January 21, 2010 at 7:55 am

Just visited Tam's lovely website; besides linking to the usual suspects like Focus on the Family, it also links to the Rutherford Institute.
http://billtam.homestead.com/Links1.html

This is a known Dominionist organization — these people would like to end the separation of church and state.
http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/clinton_network…
127. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 7:59 am

As I mentioned above (twice), I would encourage people to resist sending emails to him. This would only add fuel to their fire.
128. Nikki | January 21, 2010 at 8:21 am

The Dominionists factor largely in the Prop 8/anti-Gay picture. Howard Ahmanson, one of the most wealthy and powerful among the Dominionists, gave nearly $1MILLION to the Yes on 8 campaign. This is the same Ahmanson who was the primary financier of the electronic voting machine companies, Diebold and ES&S — controlling 80% of the votes cast in U.S. elections. Curiously (or not), many California counties use either ES&S or Premier Election Solutions (aka Diebold) voting machines.

"In 2008 Ahmanson's company Fieldstead and Co. contributed $995,000 to the YES on 8 campaign…"
129. elliott | January 21, 2010 at 7:56 am

i wouldn't be surprised if ilovealpacas.com was listed as a link from Tam's website to compare homosexuality to bestiality
130. JC | January 21, 2010 at 7:56 am

"Prop. 8 objects; Judge overrules."

The story of this trial. Lather, rinse, repeat.
131. Susan R Barnes | January 21, 2010 at 8:00 am

I laugh out loud when I read some of these comments, which is a good thing, because most of today's material makes my blood boil with anger.

Thanks for the occasional bouts of levity!
132. funkysphere | January 21, 2010 at 7:57 am

just got a text from a friend telling me to check in with the site today.

i'm no legal expert, but it looks like we have animus.

you guys are doing an amazing job blogging and Boises is outstanding!!!

i know we still have a long road ahead of us, but I feel one step closer to getting married. my fiance and I are standing by…
133. Oregon | January 21, 2010 at 7:57 am

As incredibly ridiculous as this testimony his, and as much as we all want to throw shoes at this person, I think justice would be well served to send a full complete transript of this entire string of testimony to the national media, and then to place it on billboards everywhere!

As much as I hope this guy realizes the shame of all that he's said and does a 180, I think we all need to expose these people and let the general population decide for themselves.

But think of all the dumbing down of America the Bush administration accomplished and its no wonder why people fell – no, RAN – into traps like this. Fear. And that's what we, as GLBT everywhere, have to fear.
134. Susan R Barnes | January 21, 2010 at 8:05 am

Yes! Let's expose these hateful, bigoted, ignorant, fear-mongering, shameless, homophobic ideas for what they really are: ANIMUS

Put the word out, post on Facebook, send to your local newspapers, talk about it. If the mainstream media won't do it, we'll have to do it.
135. BMc | January 21, 2010 at 7:57 am

NARTH is where Mr. Kendall went. FANTASATIC!
136. Ozymandias | January 21, 2010 at 8:06 am

THIS is why Olsen/Boise wanted Mr. Kendall to testify! Holy crap, talk about master chess-players!!
137. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 7:57 am

'I rely on the NARTH'

Anyone else feel a Star Wars parody coming up? Narth Vader?

Seriously, this guy is nuts.
138. Jay | January 21, 2010 at 7:58 am

I am so glad I'm not the only person who thought that.
139. Liz | January 21, 2010 at 8:02 am

Me too!
140. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 8:06 am

Fear not, even in the depths of massive anger toward these ridiculous bigots, I STILL see Star Wars references everywhere, apparently ;).
141. Will H | January 21, 2010 at 8:06 am

Luke we are your fathers?
142. Ozymandias | January 21, 2010 at 8:06 am

Bwah-ha-ha-haaaaaaa! PRICELESS!!
143. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 8:06 am

To this, I can only respond:

WIN, my friend. WIN.
144. Jay | January 21, 2010 at 8:09 am

I just laughed so hard I scared my rabbit, and possibly woke up my neighbours. Awesome.
145. Lisa | January 21, 2010 at 8:10 am

muahahahahaha! Narth Vader FTW!
146. Tom | January 21, 2010 at 8:11 am

A million points to you, my friend! Here, have your free copy of The Homosexual Agenda (c)
147. Pam | January 21, 2010 at 8:19 am

OMG. that's amazing.
148. Pandora | January 21, 2010 at 8:15 am

Actually I keep thinking of that Dead Alewives Society skit (with the D&D players). I always thought the first line the DM says was "you have entered the door to the Narth" until I read a transcript and realized it was north.

(Come to think of it, that skit's a good analogy for this whole trial. Scary announcer voice proclaims how dangerous and sinful this D&D thing is, and then we hear how harmless and normal the players actually sound.)
149. Tom | January 21, 2010 at 8:22 am

Does this mean I can cast Magic Missile on "Doctor" Tam?
150. Erin | January 21, 2010 at 8:23 am

Love that skit!
151. Pandora | January 21, 2010 at 8:42 am

I'd say cast confound (I think it's a level 0 spell, but I lost track after 3rd edition), but I think he's doing a bang-up job of that all on his own.

("I'm getting drunk! Are there any girls there? Roll the dice to see if I'm getting drunk!")
152. fiona64 | January 22, 2010 at 2:58 am

"In the fridge, duh …"

Love,
Fiona64
153. Jagger | January 21, 2010 at 8:25 am

I also cracked up at that line…I knew someone would beat me to it though. I have this vivid image of Tam kneeling before the NARTH. There are flames burning all around him.

Oh wait, that's just hell, which is where he's going.
154. fiona64 | January 21, 2010 at 7:58 am

Rick, thank you for doing this vital work. I cannot imagine how difficult it must be, with Prop 8 people sitting there trying to intimidate you *and* having to listen to this sort of hate-filled twaddle. I appreciate you!
155. Ozymandias | January 21, 2010 at 7:58 am

Seconded!
156. Adam Easterling | January 21, 2010 at 7:58 am

NARTH = National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality, in case anyone didn't know.
157. Pete | January 21, 2010 at 8:07 am

Thanks!
158. Lisa S. | January 21, 2010 at 9:12 am

X.X I just went to their website to see what it was, and then I scrolled to this comment. I didn't have to taint my cookies after all… >.<
159. Ozymandias | January 21, 2010 at 7:58 am

Folks, I think my blood pressure is going through the roof here. My hands are shaking as I type – anyone else experiencing this?

Holy hell, this is both absolutely HORRIFYING to read but I feel such a tremendous vindication in seeing Tam's bigotry exposed for what it is!
160. Frijondi | January 21, 2010 at 8:01 am

Yes, I'm reliving every confrontation I've ever had with a gay-basher on the street.
161. JC | January 21, 2010 at 8:01 am

You are not alone.
162. CajunBoyLgb | January 21, 2010 at 8:02 am

I am. I am feeling the same fury I felt as I watched religious psychotics take a civil right away from American citizens they thought were icky.

I hope they all burn in Hell. For what they did to me and my husband and all of us who they decided were less than human. Pigs and scum, all of them. Especially this loser. And that sow Maggie Gallagher.

Apologies to actual female pigs. I didn't mean to insult them by equating them to Maggie Gallagher.
163. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:03 am

And he takes the crew down with the ship….
164. Pete | January 21, 2010 at 8:06 am

Indeed. I've been almost in tears throughout this trial, but now I am rejoicing that this is out in the open and receiving the kind of scorn it deserves.
165. jc | January 21, 2010 at 8:06 am

ozymandias,

me too! my blood pressure is soaring and i have a riproaring headache…i feel sick to my stomach and my anxiety is in overload, but i can't stop reading!
166. Dave | January 21, 2010 at 8:13 am

You're not the only one. Ugh, I want to reach through the screen and throttle this guy.
167. Frijondi | January 21, 2010 at 7:59 am

He relies on NARTH! Wouldn't it be fun if our side subpoenaed Joseph Nicolosi? How I wish…
168. Ray Harwick | January 21, 2010 at 7:59 am

B: What does American Psychological Association say about this?
T: I don’t know.
B: You never tried to find out?
T: No.
B: You believe that NARTH is a good source?
T: Yes. I rely on the NARTH.

Naturally he would check the web site of the 200,000 member APA, nor the AMA. Noooooo. NARTH is his preferred source since they agree with his point of view.
169. Ray Harwick | January 21, 2010 at 8:00 am

Oops. Meant to say he "would NOT" check the APA site.
170. Jenny O | January 21, 2010 at 8:04 am

I was just going to say something similar. Doesn't rely on the experts, doesn't even look up what they have to say. Chooses the obviously biased NARTH for his info. Then goes and spreads those outrageous lies. Sickening.
171. SFMary | January 21, 2010 at 8:04 am

"I saw it on the NARTH site"

(I read it on the interwebs, so it MUST be true!!!)
172. Tom | January 21, 2010 at 8:30 am

NARTH: Serious business!
173. sugarbritches | January 21, 2010 at 7:59 am

Ignorance in action….
174. J.Random | January 21, 2010 at 7:59 am

Francis Collins never made the statement in the sense that Tam and NARTH said he did.
http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/09/30/what-did-fran…

Collins meant that gay isn't "hardwired" in the sense that it is 100% predetermined by genes (because identical twins with identical genes can have differing orientations). That does not in any way mean it is chosen or mutable.
175. Frijondi | January 21, 2010 at 8:03 am

There's an entire website devoted to calling anti-gay lobbyists out on distortions like this.
http://respectmyresearch.org/
176. mp | January 21, 2010 at 7:59 am

Now I know why Rob Reiner got involved… this is stuff you think doesn't happen in real courtrooms: only movies! This is unbelievable… reads like Law and Order!
177. Denise A | January 21, 2010 at 8:01 am

Thank you so much for doing this. It's very important and so necessary to shine a light on the ignorance behind this inequality.
178. M.E. Graves | January 21, 2010 at 8:01 am

T: I saw it on the NARTH site [that’s where Ryan from yesterday went to have conversion therapy)]

B: You think NARTH is an objective website?

T: Yes. It’s reliable.

B: What does American Psychological Association say about this?

T: I don’t know.

B: You never tried to find out?

T: No.

*****My eye twitched so hard that I think I broke a blood vessel in it.
179. Josh | January 21, 2010 at 8:01 am

Yowza. If there was ever someone to dig that Prop 8 hole, Tam can do it. Keep digging, Tam!
180. Marc | January 21, 2010 at 8:01 am

B: Does Collins believe that sexual orientation can be changed?

T: I saw it on the NARTH site [that’s where Ryan from yesterday went to have conversion therapy)]

B: You think NARTH is an objective website?

T: Yes. It’s reliable.

B: What does American Psychological Association say about this?

T: I don’t know.

B: You never tried to find out?

T: No.

B: You believe that NARTH is a good source?

T: Yes. I rely on the NARTH.

OWNED!
181. Liz | January 21, 2010 at 8:02 am

This is making me sick, but i agree that it's good to get it out there and documented. I think most people will recognize this for the bull**** it is.

And remember, this man has a PhD.
182. Oregon | January 21, 2010 at 8:04 am

If I were the President of the school where he got his Ph.D., I'd revoke it.
183. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:04 am

Scary….
184. CajunBoyLgb | January 21, 2010 at 8:06 am

I want to know what school he went to. And then go around and let kids know they shouldn't go to a university that graduates clearly badly-taught students like him.

That school's doctoral program must really suck bad.
185. Roger | January 21, 2010 at 8:33 am

He has his CV on his website (I think the link has been given above). In that he claims to have done "postgraduate research" at a very well respected university, Columbia IIRC. (His bachelor's degree is in electrical engineering.) But he doesn't actually say he got a PhD from it. My guess is that he washed the test tube…

But I can't check — the page seems to have disappeared — all I get is some fancy graphics and a heading, "Bill Tam PhD".

Should have saved it, drat. He also speaks of becoming 'born again" in, IIRC, 1984, and of having authored papers in creationist science journals.
186. Carol | January 21, 2010 at 8:02 am

In California the age of consent is 18. That's where we are, right? Cal. Penal Code, section 261.5.

And Rick, thank you for your awesome work!

Carol
187. crisw | January 21, 2010 at 8:03 am

have you seen Tam's website? Ckecl it out- this guy is even loonier than he sounds here-
http://billtam.homestead.com/Articles.html
http://billtam.homestead.com/articles2.html

The articles are all in Chinese, but Google Translator makes some sense of them- here is one:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&pr…

"If homosexuality is normal behavior, it will not appear, such as AIDS, hepatitis, pneumonia and other deadly diseases. Homosexuality in ancient times there, homosexuality if the natural evolution of mankind, then the modern gay men should grow within the rectum of the uterus, ovaries and other organs, can be breeding the next generation, female genitals gay men should grow. Therefore, homosexuality is not normal behavior for violations of natural law, politicians force us to accept that homosexuality is normal, but also would legalize same-sex marriage, with the? The textbook will be re-written the next generation of you and I to learn gay sex, television, movies, music will be celebrating homosexuality, incest, who will be required in future to legalize, you can imagine how the world will become?"
188. fiona64 | January 21, 2010 at 8:03 am

T: Yes. I rely on the NARTH.

Which has only been debunked repeatedly …
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exst.htm

Quote:

It would appear from the available data that mental health professional organizations are correct: these therapies is ineffective, contraindicated and unsafe. In our opinion, therapists and conservative Christian ministries have an ethical responsibility to discontinue these therapies until such a time as they can be demonstrated to be safe. As a minimum therapists and ministries would appear to have a responsibility to inform their patients and clients (and the parents or guardians of non-adult patients and clients) that counselling geared to changing sexual orientation has no proven value and can lead to serious depression and suicide in some individuals.
189. Dieter M. | January 21, 2010 at 8:03 am

Have you all gone to youtube to see the beginning of the prop 8 trial re-enactments?
got the trailer up yesterday.
I provided them with the site that has all the complete transcripts from court and the re-enactments are going to get real good.
Filmed in L.A. in a court room set
190. Ann S. | January 21, 2010 at 8:03 am

AAAGGGHHH — he relies on NARTH.

Goddess save us all.
191. Charles | January 21, 2010 at 8:04 am

T: I read in Lord of The Ring that Hobbits existed before human beings.

B: What does the American Anthropology Association say about this?

T: I don't know.

B: You never tried to find out?

T: No. I think Lord of the Rings is reliable.
192. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:06 am

My Precious….
193. Marc | January 21, 2010 at 8:06 am

ROFLMFAO!
194. Bea | January 21, 2010 at 8:10 am

HILARIOUS!
195. Ozymandias | January 21, 2010 at 8:23 am

OMG! *cough* *sputter* *spew* Nooooooo! Not coffee on the keyboard againassadl;… *Windows Error*

Seriously, that was just damn funny!
196. Alice | January 21, 2010 at 8:29 am

"B: Your paper says that after Netherlands legalized SS marriage, NEtheralands legalized incest and polygamy. Do you believe that?
T: SS marriage may not have led to legalization of incest and polygamy, but it happened.
B: Who told you that?
T: I found it on the Internet."

No words.
197. Alice | January 21, 2010 at 8:31 am

Ah, I posted this to the wrong place…
198. flange5 | January 21, 2010 at 10:10 am

You are another on my growing list of heroes <3
199. MarkOH | January 21, 2010 at 8:04 am

Thank goodness his not an MD. But what is his PhD in, anyway? Couldn't be anything too scientific. One look at the NARTH site shows gaping holes in their "research".
200. MarkOH | January 21, 2010 at 8:04 am

"his" should be "he's"
201. Anthony N | January 21, 2010 at 8:31 am

He got it after riding with Mickey Mouse in Fantasyland!!!
202. Pete | January 21, 2010 at 8:04 am

Thank you Rick! This is very illuminating!! Also sickening, but I'm glad it's out in the open in COURT. What a jerk that dude is.
203. InMA | January 21, 2010 at 8:04 am

124. yeah – a PhD in bullsh**tery.
204. M.E. Graves | January 21, 2010 at 8:09 am

His dissertation was titled, "Obfuscation and Obliviousness: How to Confuse and Infuriate the Legal System Without Even Trying."
205. Carl | January 21, 2010 at 8:04 am

Ugh this is making me so ill.. I'm so thankful to have a very very liberal Asian family. Who knows how I'd have turned out if I had him as a father.
206. TamChin | January 21, 2010 at 8:05 am

I can't tell you how grateful I am for your work – and for these attorneys working on this case. As a person who lived happily with my boyfriend for 12 years before marriage, I can say from experience that the change in our relationship as a married couple was deep in ineffable ways – and no one was more surprised than me. I understand why marriage is important for gays/lesbians. And, since my husband and I are of different races, I'm not far removed from not having the right to marry myself. Hang in there – there is no greater work than toward love and away from fear and hate. Thank you SO much.
207. Michael Herman | January 21, 2010 at 8:05 am

……

I think it's safe to say that you can close the books now. EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF PROP 8'S CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSH*T.

There is no way possible that Prop 8 can't be overturned.
208. M.E. Graves | January 21, 2010 at 8:11 am

Let's not jump to conclusions, yet. I know it looks good for our side right now, but let's wait and see. If there is anything I've learned when dealing with arguing with religious conservatives, it is that no matter how low into the trenches of human stupidity one can reach I am never surprised that they always seem to find another abyss to fall into even further.
209. niall blehein | January 21, 2010 at 8:05 am

B: What does American Psychological Association say about this?

T: I don’t know.

THAT is clearly a lie. Anyone who publishes anti-gay propaganda to 60+chinese language websites, and is a doctor would surely know what American Psych Assoc. position on this is . Its not credible that no one would have brought this to his attention before.
210. Ray Harwick | January 21, 2010 at 8:12 am

Absolutely agree. He couldn't have decided that NARTH was superior without comparing what APA says. He simply chose NARTH because they agree with HIM.
211. Roger | January 21, 2010 at 8:40 am

He's not a doctor. He's an electrical engineer.
212. Tom B. | January 21, 2010 at 8:49 am

Must…not…make…obvious…Doctor McCoy joke…

"Dammit Boies, I'm an electrical engineer, not a doctor!"

Sorry, I had to.
213. Greg | January 21, 2010 at 8:06 am

"There is no way possible that Prop 8 can’t be overturned."

Yes, but we all know the USSC will immediately overturn Judge Vaughn unfortunately.
214. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:30 am

Any judge who ruled against this with all this testimony would be yanked off the bench.

They may just delay this by refusing to hear this case but hey wouldn't be able to legally overrule it,
215. nancy c | January 21, 2010 at 8:07 am

this guy is wacko. Hes an out right bad liar. Maybe they should ask him what he thinks about human trafficking and child prostitution done in many countries including Asia. Is that our fault too? RICK THANK YOU THNK YOU
216. PM, in the UK | January 21, 2010 at 8:08 am

[I guess we all understand what Ryan Kendall, sexual orientiation conversion victim of NARTH, was doing here earlier, don't we?]

Yep; with this and Ms. Zia already getting the website submitted earlier, it looks like Boies & Olsen are unleashing seven shades of A grade lawyering from unexpected angles.

This would make such great scripted tv! Every prop and throwaway line in act 1 pops up later for a big reveal!
217. InMA | January 21, 2010 at 8:08 am

Prop8 should be overturned for this comment alone:

"Yes. I rely on the NARTH."
218. Mouse | January 21, 2010 at 8:20 am

I wonder if he is a graduate of their conversion program? I can't imagine someone who is not inclined toward homosexuality spending this much time and energy on the subject. Goes further to show the discrimination we face, the stigma – when people are indoctrinated to hate themselve – and the political powerlessness – when members of the gay "community" work against gay rights because of the social pressures and stigma.
219. Frijondi | January 21, 2010 at 8:26 am

I don't think every anti-gay is a closet case; for a lot of them, it has to do with maintaining rigid gender roles.
220. fiona64 | January 22, 2010 at 3:01 am

Frijondi makes an excellent point here. A lot of homophobia is rooted in misogyny.

More here: http://atheism.about.com/b/2005/05/30/homophobia-…
221. pepper | January 22, 2010 at 3:39 am

fiona64, thank you very much for posting that link, a while ago I made that connection myself and figured it all out , and its very good to see this article about it. It confirms what I believe to be true. re link homphobia/misogyny.
222. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 8:09 am

Everyone should visit http://www.marriagetrial.com and send them an email to get this section filmed and out ASAP. This is what we want people to hear and see!
223. Greg | January 21, 2010 at 8:14 am

I hope the actors truly reflect the emotions and speech impediments of those testifying. Tam speaks in broken English and the 'expert' for the anti-gay side who was on the taped deposition speaks very effeminately.
224. Aconite | January 21, 2010 at 11:44 am

Greg, let's not go there, okay? We have the moral high ground here. We don't need to sink to mocking "speech impediments."
225. A | January 21, 2010 at 10:54 pm

agreed
226. Brian | January 21, 2010 at 8:10 am

We will get Prop 8, DOMA, and all related prejudicial legislation removed. When precisely this will finally be complete is an unknown.

This testimony has given us the real firepower we needed… both emotionally and legally.

Regardless of how Judge Vaughn rules.. regardless of how the USSC reacts… this is now a subject that is in the open, and will resound again and again in their ears until finally we get the message through that we will not stand for this inequality.
227. Barb | January 21, 2010 at 8:18 am

I agree Brian. But so hard to read, my soul is hurting.
228. JefferyK | January 21, 2010 at 8:21 am

Really? Is any mainstream news organization covering this trial? If so, in any detail other that "he said/she said" sound bites? I don't think anyone other than us homos is paying much attention to this trial.
229. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:32 am

Not yet but when this breaks its going to be MASSIVE
230. Juliette | January 21, 2010 at 8:10 am

This man makes me feel physically ill. I'm almost glad I didn't make it over to the trial today because I would have been so upset seeing him and hearing him. Just reading this makes me want to throw up. It's like a villain from science fiction!

That said, I'm so grateful that you guys are posting all this. I would rather want to throw up and be informed than not know what's going on. You're making a big difference! Thank you!
231. abbe | January 21, 2010 at 8:11 am

Is there a big delay in posting more transcripts b/c everyone in the courtroom is slamming their heads against the wall?
232. Ray Harwick | January 21, 2010 at 8:15 am

In that case:

OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPTS ARE NOW ONLINE AT FOUNDATION FOR EQUAL RIGHTS WEB SITE

(Includes all through yesterday (Wednesday)
http://www.equalrightsfoundation.org/our-work/hea…
233. Tom | January 21, 2010 at 8:12 am

Rick. I love you and need to buy you dinner and lots of drinks after all this. My stomach is turning reading this so can't imagine being there to hear this man say these things in person. Most of us have all heard this line of thinking since we were born and now hearing it in the courtroom for the first time is sickening but a bandaid that needed to be ripped free. No prejudice is rational since prejudice is irrational fear by definition. That said, hearing it in a legitimate courtroom being said by someone who thinks its perfectly fine is incredible. Is it 2010 or 1610 in America? Sickening. Hang in there Rick – you are doing an amazing job.
234. allanj | January 21, 2010 at 8:29 am

we all owe Rick and the team dinner and drinks!

can we all go out for a night on the town after this? it might help us all wind down from the tension this trial is creating
235. judy west | January 21, 2010 at 8:13 am

Thanks so much for hanging in there Rick, I feel ill too and my heart is breaking. I've heard this crap all my life….
236. Pam | January 21, 2010 at 8:14 am

thank you so much for doing this!!
this is so scary…
237. judy west | January 21, 2010 at 8:15 am

If it was so funny my heart would break in two. Thanks for being there Rick…Thank you thank you
238. rpx | January 21, 2010 at 8:16 am

Dr Tam needs to speak to his Catholic friends as the lowest age of consent in the world is age 12 in the Vatican State

Well I wouldn't exactly call Burkina Faso part of Europe but they do have age of consent for females as 13 as does Nigeria South Korea and wait shockingly Spain.

Here are the countries only showing the ones with low ages for age of consent-
For Girls Age 14 – Albania, Botswana, Bulgaria,
Chile, China, Colombia, Croatia, Ecuador, Estonia, Hungary, Italy, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Moldova, Montenegro, Papua New Guinea, Peru, Puerto Rico, Serbia

What is very interesting is that many countries and US states have different ages of consent for males than for females. Examples – Arkansas 14 years for a boy 16 for a girl. Mexico & Philippines 12 for a boy and 18 for a girl. Japan 13 for a boy & 18 for a girl.
239. Frijondi | January 21, 2010 at 8:32 am

Hmm. In some countries, they apparently think it's okay for grown women to have sex with 12 or 13 year old boys.

I can see the headlines now — "I Was Vatican Cougar Bait!"
240. rpx | January 21, 2010 at 8:50 am

I can see the headlines now — “I Was Vatican Cougar Bait!”
ROFL ROFL ROFL

I wish there was a way Rick could run over to our sides attorney and slip them a note saying lowest age of consent int he world is Vatican City age 12, take that Dr Tam. I wonder if the LDS's know this???
241. Bry | January 21, 2010 at 1:30 pm

I'm told age of consent is also low in New Zealand
242. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 8:16 am

'I don’t know who are the forces of evil.'

Why, Narth Vader of course!

I am going to see this man as a permanent Star Wars reference. It is the only way I can keep from exploding right now.
243. Lisa | January 21, 2010 at 8:21 am

cue the imperial march:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbPcUrHsD8A
244. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 8:25 am

I believe this should be played from now on whenever "Dr" Tam enters the courtroom. It is entirely appropriate.

Also, our lawyers need lightsabers badly.
245. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:34 am

"UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!"
246. rpx | January 21, 2010 at 8:58 am

" Also, our lawyers need lightsabers badly." I am laughing so hard I am crying, literally. Thanks to everyone for the laughs we need them.
247. Ted | January 21, 2010 at 8:17 am

LOL.

The "protectmarriage" and "ADFmedia" twitter feeds have gone totally silent.

I wonder why.

*snicker*
248. Lisa | January 21, 2010 at 8:18 am

meanwhile, @protectmawwiage is very much active right now.

*snickeringalong*
249. Ann S. | January 21, 2010 at 8:27 am

Never fear, they'll begin to spin this as persecution of Christians in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
250. Olivier | January 21, 2010 at 11:51 am

Yesssssssss!
251. Lisa | January 21, 2010 at 8:17 am

He doesn't like Harry Potter either. That can't be good! I rely on the Harry Potter!
252. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 8:19 am

"So, you believe people can fly on brooms. Did you check this in an encyclopedia / medical textbook?"

"No, I checked Harry Potter."

"You checked Harry Potter?"

"Yes. I rely on the Harry Potter."

Sad thing is, this example is actually almost saner than the real one.
253. Charles | January 21, 2010 at 8:26 am

oi oi, I already did the joke, with Lord of The Rings. Your joke is practically indistinguishable from mine.

Now I'm issuing you a cease and desist RIGHT NOW. If you were not to comply, I'd be sending my (internet) lawyers on you!
254. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 8:36 am

OH NO. I am terrified of your Internet lawyers. I will have to change my name and move to another country.

LOL, I didn't see your joke, by the way. My sincere apologies. Please don't sue XD.
255. The Reverend Susan R | January 21, 2010 at 8:19 am

I've got an email folder full of messages from folks who have bought this stuff hook, line and sinker — which is EXACTLY why getting the truth out into the light of day is so critically important for ALL of us.

The guy I work for said "The truth will set you free" … what's happening in that courtroom IS the truth that will set us free.

Eventually.

Hang in there.
256. K | January 21, 2010 at 8:21 am

@The Reverend Susan Russell – Only by way of the tireless work of those like yourself do many of us have hope. Great to see you over here and thank you for everything you are to all of us.
257. David T. | January 21, 2010 at 8:19 am

The reasons and beliefs of people like William Tam, who it is clear was key to organizing Prop. 8, are truly horrendous! Well done Rick Jacobs for laying these facts bare to the public so we can all be aware of the truth behind this awful campaign.
258. PM, in the UK | January 21, 2010 at 8:19 am

T: Homosexuals are not minority.
B: How many are there?
T: I am a minority. Minority is based on skin color.
B: How many are there?
T: 2-4% of population.
B: So they are a minority?
T: yes.

— *eye twitch* —

B: It’s headed “Reasons Why we Do not Support SS Marriage” by presence Ministry.
T: Chinese Christian organization in LA. I know their president and went to one of their conferences. I was a guest there.
B: This was rally as part of the campaign that you as Protect Marriage dot com was waging to pass Prop. 8. You say, “It’s time the church rises up to face the forces of evil.”
T: I did not write it. I don’t know who are the forces of evil.
B: And you did not see this document at the time?
T: Many people were working on the rally. My role was pretty small. I had my own organization to attend to.
B: And just to be clear, Dr. Tam, is that before today you have never seen this flyer?
T: It might have gone in front of my eyes. It might have passed by my desk. So many came by that I did not pay attention to all of them and this is one of them.

— *keyboard faceplant* —

Make the bad man stop.
259. JC | January 21, 2010 at 8:22 am

Thank you for that. The periodic bursts of laughter from reading these BRILLIANT comments help relieve the hideously throbbing veins in my forehead. I've never had high blood pressure till this trial….
260. Robert Bochum | January 21, 2010 at 8:55 am

*keyboard faceplant* –

Make the bad man stop.

RICK YOU ARE AWESOMELY FUNNY,DUDE!! You should write for Conan O'Brian's Tonight ….Sho ….Nevermind.
261. Ann S. | January 21, 2010 at 8:20 am

"Homosexuals are not a minority".

What a moron.
262. Richard Lulenski | January 21, 2010 at 8:20 am

Amazing testimony and thank you for the great work
263. Barb | January 21, 2010 at 8:20 am

I am going to have to reread this over the weekend. I can't even keep up with the comments today.

This man cannot be real…no one is that ignorant and well-respected and evil at the same time.
264. Ann S. | January 21, 2010 at 8:20 am

Or as Bugs would say, "What a maroon."
265. Susan R Barnes | January 21, 2010 at 8:28 am

Bugs would say that he must have made a wrong turn at Albuquerque
266. Susan R Barnes | January 21, 2010 at 8:29 am

… and Dorothy would say we're not in Kansas anymore
267. Ray Harwick | January 21, 2010 at 8:21 am

T: Chairman invited. I did not know any of these speakers, Tony Perkins.

Family Research Council is one of their partners and Tam doesn't know Tony Perkins? Puhleeeeeezzzz.
268. Dieter M. | January 21, 2010 at 8:21 am

this all seems meaningless after the supremes decision today anyways….seems the writing is already on the wall for us..
they broke a decades old standard which on its surface sides WITH churches and republicans, and AGAINST gays.
269. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 8:24 am

The important part is the animus and intentional misleading.
270. activecitizen54 | January 21, 2010 at 8:22 am

I love you all so much for doing this. Just remember that these vile creatures passed a law because of the collusion, the cooperation between this scumbag Tam, the LDS, Catholic Church and the Evangelicals. Dominionists one and all. These creatures are dangerous.
I know now that the Romans were right in entertaining themselves by doing away with this kind of ignorance and bigotry.
271. Aconite | January 21, 2010 at 8:42 am

activecitizen54, I very much wish you would not say what you are implying at the end there. First, and most importantly, because human rights are human rights for everyone, not just the people you like(which is OUR whole point), and murder is always wrong. Period.

Second, because our opposition picks statements like that and reposts them everywhere as proof we're really out to get them. Statements like that give them bullets for their guns.

And third, because the so-called Christians who are doing this crap are not like the early Christians in very many ways at all. Don't blame the early folks for what people calling themselves by the same name do centuries later.
272. Anne in Tennessee | January 21, 2010 at 8:22 am

Down here in the Bible Belt, a point of view such as Tam's is not uncommon. Religious fear does strange things to people. Thank you so much for this blog. I am hanging on every word and thank the attorneys for so eloquently and strongly representing what is right. May intelligence and reason prevail.
273. Ryan Blazer | January 21, 2010 at 8:23 am

I must say, I've been following everyday at work, but none of the testimony has angered me as much as Tam! I am so upset to the point of tears.

Thanks for posting everything, Rick!
274. truthspew | January 21, 2010 at 8:23 am

Tam is flagging in the wind. I love the fact that the proponents of Prop 8 always give short answers. It's as though they can't synthesize a thought beyond a few words.
275. Theresa | January 21, 2010 at 8:23 am

Refresh my memory here, my friends, as I am getting blinded with bullshit: he is under oathe, right?!
276. Theresa | January 21, 2010 at 8:24 am

(sans the 'e') 😉
277. Rebecca | January 21, 2010 at 8:25 am

Yup, and close to perjuring himself it sounds like.
278. Barb | January 21, 2010 at 8:26 am

I am not sure he understood what oath meant. Lying is even saying, "I don't know," "I don't remember," "huh?"
279. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:47 am

Ohh they are walking his arse right into perjury charges. That is why they are asking him repeatedly about his knowledge about documents, Organizations etc. He is so Nailed…
280. Robert Bochum | January 21, 2010 at 8:24 am

Rick, THANK YOU, THANK YOU AND THANK YOU to you and your crew for doing this impossible and gut-wrenching duty. I'm right there with you buddy listening to this 'witness'. I hope there is at least satisfaction listening to an A-list lawyer carve him up with his own hateful, bigoted words. "I saw some homosexuals hanging around there." Thank you especially for that. I expect Mr. Tam sees homosexuals hanging around many places (His fearful imagination? The A & P.? OZ? Disneyland? Every American community over 250 population?)
Anybody out here remember the 'good 'ole days of 1980's HIV??' These same type of 'good citizens' wanted all of us nasty homosexuals rounded up and isolated. Like Native American reservations. Concentration,leper or internment camps. I kid thee not. There was actual chatter on the right wing at the national level about where to put us, how to find us among the population, round us up. We've come a long way but there is sooooo much further to go. They make me very tired for the human race.
281. Ryan Blazer | January 21, 2010 at 8:24 am

Of all the testimony, Tam's gotten me to the point of tears, infuriation, and then some!

Good job, Rick!
282. Ryan Blazer | January 21, 2010 at 8:25 am

Sorry for the double-post. 🙁
283. Gary | January 21, 2010 at 8:25 am

Well now we have the spectrum of people from Jerry Sanders to this guy, and it does all boil down to prejudice and animus. Can the judge possibly find some "other" reason for Prop 8? Because I guess what Bois is trying to show is: even those who voted to say marriage should be between a man and a woman, are merely expressing their animus. Even if they dont realize it? Or, can you have animus if you don't know it?
284. Barb | January 21, 2010 at 8:27 am

yes, you can.
285. Alena | January 21, 2010 at 8:25 am

This is so rich.
That Mr. Tam has a lot of nerve, i tells ya!
Isn't answering in a roundabout fashion the same as lying?
I should say so.

Keep up the goo work! Your blog is keeping mw on the edge of my seat! It's a cliffhanger!!!!
'Stay tuned…. Find out what will Mr. Tam say next!'
286. Jesse | January 21, 2010 at 8:26 am

As a married straight male, I can't even imagine how horrible it would be to have heard this kind of crap all through life growing up. I'm having a hard enough time reading it here online right now.

I've been to a number of weddings, but the one for my gay male friends was special in a way I can't describe. I just wish we lived in a world where it didn't have to be extra noteworthy just due to their sex.
287. Theresa | January 21, 2010 at 8:37 am

Thank you, Jesse, for being a straight ally… 🙂
288. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:50 am

Thank you Jesse!
289. pearlheartgtr | January 21, 2010 at 8:27 am

You guys are gonna love this one. From the NCLR twitter:

"Flyer: After Netherlands legalized SSM, went on to legalize incest & polygamy. Tam: Yes, true."

"Boies: Who told you that? Where did you get that idea? Tam: The Internet. (lol)"
290. JC | January 21, 2010 at 8:31 am

I saw that, too. They've been very "dry" in their tweets; it was good to see that they couldn't resist this one….
291. Michael Herman | January 21, 2010 at 8:27 am

This is the first time I've actually been sitting here refreshing the page, waiting for updates.

Even though the throttle lever on my car is sticking, and I'm worried something is seriously wrong, I'm still drawn to this.
292. Diane M. | January 21, 2010 at 8:27 am

I am so confused, I am so shocked by the depths of Tam's bigotry and ignorance…. Should I laugh or vomit… Should I cheer at his revealing testimony or groan at watching a man so thouroughly hang himself…..

Kudos to plaintiffs attorney… He is a steely eyed missle man…..
293. Badcowboy | January 21, 2010 at 8:28 am

OMG – Tam reads uses the internet to deduce that Sweden has legalized marriage between siblings – this gets better and better.
294. Charles | January 21, 2010 at 8:29 am

"T: I don't know the forces of evil"

God that must be made into a Tshirt. With his face on it. I mean, that man is joking, right? He does know he is in a courtroom?

I'm thrilled and enjoying this because I know our happiness is going to be shortlived… So let's all enjoy this while we can. 🙁
295. CajunBoyLgb | January 21, 2010 at 8:41 am

Tam: "I don't know the forces of evil."

Well, look in a mirror, douchenozzle. And look at all the sponsors of Prop H8. You know them well.

Gawd, this man is a pathetic little worm, isn't he?!
296. Barb | January 21, 2010 at 8:30 am

B: Second document which is from 1man1woman dot net, more specific. Says that if same sex marriage passes it will lead to incest, pedophilia and polygamy. Do you agree with that?
T: Yes.
B: That’s what you told people to get them to vote for Prop. 8?
T: Yes.

Slam Dunk
297. Lisa | January 21, 2010 at 8:35 am

more like a "head-sawn-off-by-a-jedi-lightsaber"

sorry, i keep using star wars references to deflect my outrage that this BS is coming out of someone's mouth.
298. Pam | January 21, 2010 at 8:30 am

"I found it on the internet"
REALLY? what did he use? wikipedia?
299. Kevin | January 21, 2010 at 8:32 am

lol, I found an interview between AOL and the Easter Bunny online too, so I guess that must be true as well.
300. Pam | January 21, 2010 at 8:40 am

this is so nerve-wracking…i can't believe our opposition is as stupid as this.
301. Aconite | January 21, 2010 at 11:51 am

"REALLY? what did he use? wikipedia?"

No, you silly goose. Everybody knows Wikipedia is a hotbed of liberal elite gay islamofascistsocialist death panelists!

He used Conservapedia, of course.
302. michael | January 21, 2010 at 1:04 pm

Good one!
303. Barb | January 21, 2010 at 1:10 pm

I pity the fool that uses that sites that site one day : )
304. Sergio | January 21, 2010 at 8:31 am

B: Your paper says that after Netherlands legalized SS marriage, NEtheralands legalized incest and polygamy. Do you believe that?
T: SS marriage may not have led to legalization of incest and polygamy, but it happened.
B: Who told you that?
T: I found it on the Internet. I did not write this that polygamy was legalized in 2005.

W-O-W

He should've said Wikipedia or Google xD Tsk tsk

Too much. But I dont know if I'm angry because when I read these things I just laugh.
305. P-dee-tee | January 21, 2010 at 8:31 am

T: No. But I agree with this. If same sex marriage is legal, it would encourage children to explore same sex as their marriage partner. From Asian as well as Christian angle, we think this is social, moral decay.

You do not speak for me. Don't say we.
306. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 8:32 am

He found it on the internet……….
307. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 8:32 am

Sounds more like the government should get out of marriage and more into preventing access to the internet for gullible people.
308. Jay | January 21, 2010 at 8:33 am

This.
309. Andrea | January 21, 2010 at 8:45 am

That's just what the Chemtrail Illuminati want you to do.
310. John | January 21, 2010 at 8:32 am

Whee!!!! it's like a roller coaster of CRAZY!
311. Pedro Lopez | January 21, 2010 at 8:33 am

I wonder if Canada's recent raising of age of consent from 14 to 16 would prove to Dr. Tam that marriage equality actually helps to combat pedophilia.

This would all be absurd and laughable if not for the fact that LGBT community is easily overpowered & bullied, despite tremendous help & social advances, by overzealous religious organizations and special interests, to which Dr. Tam contributes
312. Rebecca | January 21, 2010 at 8:33 am

"B: Your paper says that after Netherlands legalized SS marriage, NEtheralands legalized incest and polygamy. Do you believe that?
T: SS marriage may not have led to legalization of incest and polygamy, but it happened.
B: Who told you that?
T: I found it on the Internet. I did not write this that polygamy was legalized in 2005.
B: You put it out there to convince people to vote for Prop. 8. Did you ever look up the law?
T: Yes, there was different documents that shows that’s true.
B: So after Netherlands legalized SS marriage, legalized polygamy and incest.
T: I’m not sure about incest. That may have been legal before ss marriage passed.
B: If that’s the case, then it has nothing to do with ss marriage.
T: Yes, but it shows that if countries are loose with sex it leads to this…"

THIS MAN IS BATS**T CRAZY!!!!!!!
313. pearlheartgtr | January 21, 2010 at 8:33 am

protectmawwiage:

"Dr. Tam criticized for getting all his info from internet, including 2 Girls 1 Cup ice cream recipe. Not sure what's wrong with that! #prop8"
314. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 8:35 am

Best. Tweet. Ever.
315. Johan | January 21, 2010 at 8:33 am

incest and polygamy are not legalized in The Netherlands. The only advocates in favor of incest and polygamy in The Netherlands are the most sexually and religiously strict minority within muslim immigrants.
316. Johan | January 21, 2010 at 8:36 am

who by the way are violently homophobic
317. pepper | January 21, 2010 at 11:26 am

Hi Johan, do you mean that minority within muslim immigrants is violently homophobic, or that all muslims are that? Just to make clear, so that people reading this dont get misinformed, the violent homophobia (gay bashing) in Holland comes from both muslims and non muslims (the non-muslims may be christians even, or even homophobic atheists-often coming from more conservative areas). Gaybashing here, eventhough it in itself is a serious problem, is minor compared to the USA.
318. Cat | January 21, 2010 at 8:45 am

Of course incest is not legal! [I'm screaming silently in my cubicle here, as a Dutch Dike (pun intended) living in CA.] In The Netherlands incest is considered a grave crime by both the public and the justice system. The only real difference I can think of is that statutory rape, although from what I understand it is not often used in US. Consent and free will is a big thing in The Netherlands, and makes all the difference. I'm sure this is true in many countries.
319. pepper | January 21, 2010 at 11:28 am

Again hi Johan, sibling marriage (incest) is not normal with muslims, also not the conservatives/religiously strict, but cousin marriage does happen, more than any other religious or non-religious groups.
320. Steve | January 21, 2010 at 8:35 am

B: Your paper says that after Netherlands legalized SS marriage, Netheralands legalized incest and polygamy. Do you believe that?
T: Same sex marriage may not have led to legalization of incest and polygamy, but it happened.
B: Who told you that?
T: I found it on the Internet. I did not write this that polygamy was legalized in 2005.

Emphasis mine. What the damn hell.
321. Ray Harwick | January 21, 2010 at 8:35 am

From what I can gleen on a quick look, the Netherlands DID legalize polygamy

—— For Muslims.!!!!!!
322. Alan E. | January 21, 2010 at 8:36 am

But they are brown people! Hide your children!
323. Ray Harwick | January 21, 2010 at 8:45 am

I have to retract this since I've been pointed at a more detailed explanation. Here:
http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2005/10/is-polyga…
324. Jane | January 21, 2010 at 8:36 am

States that allow for "under" age marriage require parental constent.

What I see after reading Tam's testimony is how the "mob mentality" took over. He was a small fish, invited into a big pond. For him to run his own organization doing what it does, he's got to have an ego. Wouldn't you love to see the strategic plan for who protectmarriage.com wanted involved?
When they were deciding how to reach the Asian community – someone must have said – get Bill Tam he'll do it — he'd love to be involved in something this big. (just like his ego).
And now, he's got Reganmemory syndrome – I don't recall, I don't remember, I don't think so……
325. michael | January 21, 2010 at 3:55 pm

And he is a good fall guy too. Watch and see
326. flange5 | January 21, 2010 at 10:28 am

True–and an easy target in many ways–racially marked, stumbling language, etc., someone many of their colleagues could easily disassociate themselves from as 'other.
327. Charles | January 21, 2010 at 8:36 am

Now we know why they didn't want that guy to come up and be interrogated: He's so completely insane and stupid that he can only play right into the hands of the plaintiffs' side.

I mean this is completely incredible.

"I read it on the internet". Un-be-lie-va-ble. Just completely out there.
328. Jesse | January 21, 2010 at 8:39 am

Well, technically, we are all "reading it on the internet" here right now too. 🙂
329. Charles | January 21, 2010 at 8:43 am

Gosh you're right. Maybe it's all fake. *gets paranoid* *looks around with anguish in his eyes*
330. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:56 am

ROTFLMAO
331. James | January 21, 2010 at 3:52 pm

and your mean it in the nicest of ways.
332. Ted | January 21, 2010 at 8:37 am

On the polygamy in the Netherlands bullshit:
http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2005/10/is-polyga…
333. Rebecca | January 21, 2010 at 8:37 am

More details of this man's compete and utter insanity at FireDogLake http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/25526
334. Michael Herman | January 21, 2010 at 8:38 am

: Your paper says that after Netherlands legalized SS marriage, NEtheralands legalized incest and polygamy. Do you believe that?
T: SS marriage may not have led to legalization of incest and polygamy, but it happened.
B: Who told you that?
T: I found it on the Internet. I did not write this that polygamy was legalized in 2005.
B: You put it out there to convince people to vote for Prop. 8. Did you ever look up the law?
T: Yes, there was different documents that shows that’s true.
B: So after Netherlands legalized SS marriage, legalized polygamy and incest.
T: I’m not sure about incest. That may have been legal before ss marriage passed.
B: If that’s the case, then it has nothing to do with ss marriage.
T: Yes, but it shows that if countries are loose with sex it leads to this…

That's going on Failblog. 🙂
335. Lisa | January 21, 2010 at 8:40 am

Oh, please put this up. If anything has ever belonged there, it's this. EPIC FAIL!
336. Slybrarian | January 21, 2010 at 8:38 am

I… did Tam really just cite "the internet" as a source of information? Seriously?
337. Liz | January 21, 2010 at 8:41 am

Apparently this PhD does not know how to research…
338. Peter C | January 21, 2010 at 8:45 am

And all I can think of is that one picture of the man in the massive sombrero, his head tilted back as he proudly exclaims: ESTOY USANDO EL INTERNET!

But seriously. The citing "the internet" is so fucking transparently dishonest, you might as well say: "I am currently inserting my hand into my anus. I am extracting a fabrication of my own design that will be used to defend my beliefs, no matter how wrong or incorrect I am told by reliable sources they are."
339. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:57 am

One hand up my anus and my Bible in the other….
340. Tom B. | January 21, 2010 at 3:55 pm

Seriously, I am laughing so hard at your description tears are coming out of my eyes…thank you so much for that!
341. sugarbritches | January 21, 2010 at 8:39 am

This guy's reasoning (or lack thereof) just turns my stomach. I've dealt with this bullshit my entire life.
342. rpx | January 21, 2010 at 8:39 am

It's the Nerthalnds again! One thing our side should ahve done was to bring in experts from the Netherlands to testify what goes on there and de-bunk this constant heresay evidence about the Netherlands.

B: Your paper says that after Netherlands legalized SS marriage, NEtheralands legalized incest and polygamy. Do you believe that?
T: SS marriage may not have led to legalization of incest and polygamy, but it happened.
B: Who told you that?
T: I found it on the Internet. I did not write this that polygamy was legalized in 2005.
343. Diane M. | January 21, 2010 at 8:39 am

I feel like I am watch Boies ask Tam "Would you like some more rope?" Tam is replying "Yes I'll wrap it around my neck with the rest."

No wonder Yes on 8 didn't want this guy anywhere near the stand….
344. Charles | January 21, 2010 at 8:48 am

B: Would you like some more rope to go with your cyanide?
345. Jas | January 21, 2010 at 8:40 am

I was going to comment but I saw some homosexuals hanging around there
346. HeatherR | January 21, 2010 at 8:50 am

HOW DID YOU KNOW I WAS A HOMOSEXUAL???
347. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:58 am

Heather you were wearing Crocs….
348. Mike | January 21, 2010 at 8:40 am

Uhmmm….

Actually, I hate to say this, but Dr Tam is "somewhat" right on the Netherlands….

Consensual Incest is not prosecuted in the Netherlands.

But Polygamy is NOT legal in the Netherlands.
What is rarely done is what is called a "samenlevingscontract" – which translates into "cohabitating contract"…..but this is just twisting the law …so that a Muslim can live with his set of wives.
The Netherlands does NOT regard these contracts as anything close to a domestic partnership, civil union or a marriage.
349. Aconite | January 21, 2010 at 9:02 am

Mike, "not prosecuted" is not the same as "legal." "Not prosecuted" means it's illegal, but they won't go out of their way to take it to court unless someone gives them a good reason to.

Many countries do that. In the US, for example, oral sex–even between married couples–was on the books as a crime in many states, but typically wasn't prosecuted. (Unless, of course, somebody felt like throwing "that queer Johnson boy" into jail.)
350. Denny | January 21, 2010 at 8:40 am

What University granted his doctorate? I say his lack of research before making all these statements for publication constitutes academic dishonesty (or even fraud) and bring those charges against him, in academic circles, especially since he said NARTH is a reliable source of academic information.
351. Denny | January 21, 2010 at 8:41 am

**The degree-granting University should bring those charges against him**
352. Liz | January 21, 2010 at 8:44 am

I wonder if this is him?
http://www.chembio.uoguelph.ca/tam/
353. Charles | January 21, 2010 at 8:50 am

no its not him. Tam is about 30 years older and uglier.
354. Tom | January 21, 2010 at 8:41 am

OK, I can't fake trying to work today anymore. Have a pile to get done but can't look away from Tam's testimony. So horrifying. I keep trying to close down my web browser but two secs later, it's open again and I'm back here. Wish we never had to hear this but is it therapeutic in a way. We have always imagined what hate looks like but now we see and hear it in a courtroom. So sickening.
355. K | January 21, 2010 at 8:41 am

I'm with you Tom, totally with you.
356. Ozymandias | January 21, 2010 at 8:46 am

Yep. Totally there with ya Tom.
357. Lies | January 21, 2010 at 8:41 am

"I found it on the Internet."

Surely that's the best reason for anything ever? I FOUND IT ON THE INTERNET. I personally think pigs can fly and cats love cheeseburgers. I FOUND IT ON THE INTERNET.

IT MUST BE TRUE.
358. JeffSD | January 21, 2010 at 8:41 am

Speaking of Prop 8 Supporters… check out this picture of a car that was vandalized by them… http://www.flickr.com/photos/stutefish/2999797495…
359. Frijondi | January 21, 2010 at 8:41 am

Question for the lawyers commenting here — based on what Tam has said so far, how hard would it be to make a perjury charge stick?
360. Chris Miller | January 21, 2010 at 8:41 am

I am so thankful to all at Courage Campaign for making this possible. I am amazed and appalled at what I am reading here every day.
Keep blogging, we so appreciate it.
361. Nakhone | January 21, 2010 at 8:42 am

“No. But I agree with this. If same sex marriage is legal, it would encourage children to explore same sex as their marriage partner. From Asian as well as Christian angle, we think this is social, moral decay.”

That’s a crock of shit. I’m Asian and that bigot William Tam does not speak for all us Asians and he can’t claim from Asian angle because that is not the Asian perspective. More accurately, it’s the fundamentally flawed Christian idiotic and bigoted belief system that is outdated. Just to be clear.

Your friendly gay Asian-American activist,
-Nakhone Keodara
362. Liz | January 21, 2010 at 8:45 am

Don't worry, I'm sure no one actually believes he speaks for all Asians. 🙂
363. Barb | January 21, 2010 at 8:49 am

Nakhone, we know! It's only the ignorance that resides in the cracks and crevices of his mind. But the problem is that he is spewing "gleeking" his vitriol to people who have faith in his knowledge. He is a very dangerous person.
364. GAYGUY | January 21, 2010 at 8:42 am

I think the judge should just go " OK…enough…Tam LIED to get Prop 8 passed..he knew nothing about what he was talking about… Prop 8 is INVALID!!!
Then maybe in the future ALL propositions will be treated like that…YOUR side lies and can be proven..YOU LOSE!!
365. Rebecca | January 21, 2010 at 8:43 am

Tam looking dumber. Got this from FireDogLack

"B: Is it also true that you recognize it is important to G&L that they be able to marry?

T: Yes

B: Just as your children beenfit from you and your wife being married, os will children of same sex coupples?

T (pause) No.

B: No?

T: No

B: You don’t think children want trhier parents to be married?

T: not sure what you are trying to get at

B: This: children of same sex couples wnat their parents to be married becauses the word means something.

T: um

B: But you recognize it’s iomportant? Andimportant to those children,right?

T: I guess so."
366. Ryan Blazer | January 21, 2010 at 8:45 am

OUCH! That's damning testimony.
367. Pandora | January 21, 2010 at 8:46 am

Wow, that is rich. I'm getting a headrush from the schadenfreude. I almost feel sorry for the guy. (Operative word is "almost".)
368. sugarbritches | January 21, 2010 at 8:44 am

Why do I suspect that the university that granted this dork his doctorate has something other than exceptionally high standards?
369. christina | January 21, 2010 at 8:46 am

Damn, forget same sex marriage, someone needs to get up there and defend the Netherlands!
370. rpx | January 21, 2010 at 9:23 am

So funny so true ROFL. Seriously our side should have had experts from the Netherlands at this trial. I am going to try contacting news agencies from the Netherlands and direct them to this site. I bet it makes news there.
371. PM, in the UK | January 21, 2010 at 8:46 am

Sorry all, there must be a transcription error on Rick's part: they're questioning Dr. Tam regarding NEVERNEVER LAND.

T'is a nightmarish dreamscape to be sure, where 4 year old brothers are married by S&M witches on the orders of opium cartels, the streets are paved with poison licquorice AND THE HORSES RIDE PEOPLE.

Thank you Dr. Tam for raising public awareness of this dread kingdom, for if the Sacred Chalice Of Rixx isn't found by the next full-moon are 2 realities will merge!

Run, Dr. Tam, run from the courtroom – you've not got a moment of treasure hunt time to lose if you're to save us all!
372. Nakhone | January 21, 2010 at 8:52 am

ROFLMAO. That's really funny. You should definitely do a cartoon series with that. I love what creative endeavors this trial has spawned.
373. Charles | January 21, 2010 at 3:56 pm

Yes, though Neverland is already taken so I suggest:

Nowhereland. 😉
374. Marlene Bomer | January 21, 2010 at 9:58 am

You've *got to know where that took me…..

Nowhere Man — Paul McCartney/John Lennon

He's a real nowhere man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.

Doesn't have a point of view,
Knows not where he's going to,
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere Man please listen,
You don't know what you're missing,
Nowhere Man,the world is at your command!

(lead guitar)

He's as blind as he can be,
Just sees what he wants to see,
Nowhere Man can you see me at all?

Nowhere Man, don't worry,
Take your time, don't hurry,
Leave it all till somebody else
lends you a hand!

Doesn't have a point of view,
Knows not where he's going to,
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere Man please listen,
you don't know what you're missing
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command!

He's a real Nowhere Man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody!
375. Joshua G | January 21, 2010 at 8:47 am

This guy's testomony would be funny as heck if he were not so serious.
376. Jane | January 21, 2010 at 8:51 am

T: Well, from Christian angle, homosexuality or sex between two persons of the same sex is a sin

The act of "sex" is not a requirement of marriage. Lot's of married people never have sex. Having "sex" and being a homosexual are not one in the same.
377. Aconite | January 21, 2010 at 9:12 am

"Lots of married people never have sex." ROFL!

(In some Christian denominations, if you don't consummate the marriage, it's not considered a valid marriage and can be annulled. Trivia like that clogs up my brain, so I can never remember where my keys are.)
378. Dieter M. | January 21, 2010 at 8:56 am

Here it is everyone, the TRAILER for the youtube broadcast re-enactment of the prop 8 trial… http://www.MarriageTrial.com

and check out my "don't divorce us" video on youtube to see where this all began: at http://www.youtube.com/watch …
379. Austin TX | January 21, 2010 at 9:03 am

Well I finally got the courage to check out PM.com's blog….in addition to it being ridiculous, they won't even allow comments!?!?! Why are they afraid to have a discussion? Is it because they truly have no case??
380. Steve J | January 21, 2010 at 9:05 am

Rick Jacobs is my hero!
381. notahater | January 21, 2010 at 9:08 am

So you get gay marriage. Marriage is a state of mind. Married people are tempted more to cheat.
382. notahater | January 21, 2010 at 9:12 am

Im going to sue the LGBT community for being annoying
383. Tom B. | January 21, 2010 at 9:23 am

Umm…good luck with that. Let me know when the judge laughs you out of court.
384. M Keane | January 21, 2010 at 10:13 am

Thank you for putting this information out there. I live out side a military base and we don't hear very much about the trial around here. I'll be letting some of my military friends know about this site. I'm sure all of them, strait or gay, will find it informative.
385. Lisa S. | January 21, 2010 at 10:48 am

He's kinda boring…. "Yes" "No" and of course everyone's favorite: "I read it on the Internet"

Lets give this guy little gold stars for his EPIC research abilities. I'm kinda surprised people are falling asleep from this boring testimony. (It is testimony right? I dunno these terms. x.x)
386. Vellum | January 21, 2010 at 11:08 am

Before the age of consent is changed in America, we would need a unified one. In some states it's 14, in some it's 18. I think in Louisiana it is 16.

It's so nice to see this guy trying not to say what he actually believes and being tripped up by it. I hope that this trial over turns Prop 8. But even if it doesn't, it is worthwhile just to see people having to explain themselves when they never actually do.
387. DebbieC | January 21, 2010 at 1:11 pm

@Roger at 183 – The Wayback Machine will let you see his now pulled CV – http://web.archive.org/web/20060530014941/http://…

Here's what it says –

Born in Hong Kong, Dr. Bill Tam (also known as Hak-Shing Tam) received his bachelor degree in Chemical Engineering at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. He finished his graduate work at Columbia University while doing interdisciplinary research in Bioengineering. He has published 8 scientific papers in major international, medical and engineering journals, spoken in scientific conferences, and also co-authored a graduate level textbook in Biomedical Engineering. He worked as a research faculty member at Columbia's College of Physicians and Surgeons and as a senior research scientist at Becton-Dickinson, a major medical products firm. His specialty is in heat transfer, human thermoregulation, exercise physiology and mathematical modelling. In business, Dr. Tam has managed cosmetics companies both in Hong Kong and the US. He held membership at various professional organizations as well as positions at the Lions Club, Hong Kong.

Dr. Tam became a born-again Christian in 1984 and has been active in various ministries. He is the executive director of Chinese Family alliance and Traditional Family Coalition, both are pro-traditional family value organization. He is a columnist with Chinese Christian Herald and a member of the board of directors of Chinese Christian Herald Crusade, Northern California division. He has authored many articles on parenting, education, religion, creation science, family, media, homosexuality, and other political, ethnic and social issues. They are published in major newspapers and Christian magazines. Some of them appear on this website. He is often interviewed on radio, TV, newspaper, and news conferences in the San Francisco Bay Area. His knowledge and experience with science, social and Christian issues makes him a popular speaker at various seminars and church functions. Dr. Tam is a deacon of San Francisco Sunset Chinese Baptist Church and is married to Hazel and has three children.
388. Liveblogging Day 8: Part &hellip | January 21, 2010 at 2:39 pm

[…] Liveblogging Day 8: Part V Tam continues […]
389. Greg | January 21, 2010 at 3:05 pm

Thank you so much for posting these updates. Today’s testimony has shocked me to my core. The public is finally getting a brutally honest view inside the minds of these insidious anti-gay bigots. Bill Tam is scary evil.
390. InMA | January 21, 2010 at 8:07 am

The public WOULD be getting a shock had the trial been televised.
391. michael | January 21, 2010 at 8:16 am

Oh this is a huge media story here, Don't worry this going to get out, Maybe not on Fox but everyone else is going to be all over this crap
392. activecitizen54 | January 21, 2010 at 3:55 pm

It would be my fervent wish that this kind of hate, bigotry and downright Lying would be exposed to the general public. These Cults of Jesus freaks and the Supreme Court have done a grave disservice to America by suppression of this trial. The mainstream media ignores this and this kind of hate is spewed from Catholic, Evangelical and LDS pulpits regularly to fan the flames of Hate.
Thank you for having the courage to withstand this and bring this to us rapidly.
393. Sheryl | January 21, 2010 at 5:02 pm

Please don't lump all Mormons under one umbrella. Personally, I find it very embarrassing that the leaders aligned with "christian" groups who do not consider us christian. In my opinion, the only reason was for the support both financial and people wise. However, not all leaders in California were as right wing as mine. In my friend's stake, they had 2 meetings on the subject, the one televised from SLC and one with the LDS attorney who wrote a rebuttal to the 8 points the Prop 8 groups were distributing and, other than reading the letters from SLC, Prop8 was not discussed in the meetings (unlike my ward, which I refer to as "the John Birch" ward). And, after Prop 8 they have held meetings to help reach out to the gay community in their boundaries and to the families of those with gay members. Some of us remember those roots of discrimination faced by the early members of the church and cannot understand how we can now be persecuting another group simply because they live life differently.

And for those not familiar with her, you might want to read Carol Lynn Pearson's "No More Good-byes"

I'm straight, I'm mormon and I believe in equal rights for all. I don't believe that gay marriage will in anyway harm my marriage. Nor do I believe that children being taught that it is okay for same sex couples to be married will cause them to decide to be gay. I did not choose to be straight, i JUST am. That does define me as a human being, nor does being gay define someone's character. Now our character, that is where we have choices, not our sexual orientation. The good the bad and the ugly exist in all arenas.

So, I apologize for all members of my religion who fell for the Prop 8 groups propaganda. And while some can point to articles saying we should always do what the Prophet says, others can point to articles where we are counseled to "think, ponder, and pray." While some (probably may have voted Yes on 8 because of that "if you follow the Prophet, even if he is wrong you will not be punished" philosophy. Others of us did the "think, ponder, and pray" and knew that we could not vote against what we felt was right.

Sorry, it's late, I'm rambling but I just hate it when everyone within a group gets labeled the same.
394. Sheryl | January 21, 2010 at 5:05 pm

Oops, meant "that does NOT define me as a human being"
395. rpg | January 27, 2010 at 4:08 am

thank you. very thoughtful. On the mark.
396. William Tam: He’s l&hellip | January 21, 2010 at 6:16 pm

[…] to go for the “aw-shucks, you city lawyers are just too smart for me” card. At the beginning of this liveblog post, Rick points out that Tam said “that Boies is using his legal expertise to pin my words in […]
397. rpg | January 27, 2010 at 4:01 am

Rick, et al. thank you for diligence and dedication to sharing this information.

I'm literally sickened by Mr. Tam's POV— I want to get all christian and quote scripture (the little that I know) but what's the point?

Ignorance is ignorance and prejudice is fear. God help us overcome. (there, I couldn't help it). Once we have victory, even in the interim, I think forgiveness is critical…
398. The Prop 8 defense case: &hellip | January 30, 2010 at 2:01 pm

[…] sorts of web searches–but feel free to explore the full thing in all its gruesome detail here and here with commentary […]
399. The Prop 8 defense case: &hellip | January 30, 2010 at 3:23 pm

[…] sorts of web searches–but feel free to explore the full thing in all its gruesome detail here and here with commentary […]
400. Drasties - Dutch on the W&hellip | January 30, 2010 at 5:40 pm

[…] The Prop 8 defense case: the crazy, unleashed […]
401. what Are Ereaders | July 19, 2013 at 2:21 pm

Man,amazing website you have here. A great deal
of very good material as well as similar insight!
!! Do you offer any type of articles on the subject of ipad keyboard case?

Here is my web site: what Are Ereaders
402. vizio e472vl 47 inch class lcd | July 20, 2013 at 9:19 am

Man…cool website you’ve got here. Tons of excellent content combined with similar information!!! Do you currently have any type of material pertaining to lcd tv 22 inch 16 10?

Also visit my web-site; vizio e472vl 47 inch class lcd