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Trial Trackers: Support, Join, Fan, Follow


By Julia Rosen

My local NPR station KXJZ just started their pledge drive. I’m sure most of you are familiar with their pitch… “we do good work, unique work that you can’t find anywhere else. If you appreciate it, please support us by making a donation.”

With that in mind…

  • Yesterday, the American Foundation for Equal Rights sent out an email request for donations for the first time. If you love the legal team and I know you do, click here to support AFER’s work, without which this trial would not be happening.

Of course, there are other ways you can show your support for Courage and AFER. Like Facebook and Twitter.

Because of you, this site now has more than 1.5 million views and 15,649 comments have been posted. Thank you so much for making the Prop 8 Trial Tracker such a success!

Feel free to use this as an Open Thread to discuss whatever is on your mind (got links to share with other Trial Trackers?). And watch for a post this afternoon about Andy Pugno that you may find quite interesting.


  • 1. Alan E.  |  January 29, 2010 at 4:56 am

    I sent this email to CC earlier this morning, but I wanted to share it with everyone else:

    Good morning!

    I was listening to KPFA in my carpool this morning, and I heard Rick Jacobs and others discussing the trial. Is there any way to wrangle up links to these interviews and stories into one central location? I know there are a lot of stories around the web, but it would be great to to come to the trial tracker site to find out what people are talking about around the world. People have been adding links to stories in the comments section, and it is difficult to find those comments at a later time just for that one link.

    By the way, the KPFA interview gave me a perfect opportunity to continue the conversation and let other people know what I have learned while following the daily live blogs. Even though the other people in the car were opposed to Prop 8, they didn't know much behind the defendants' witnesses dropping out aside from what little information the media has put out. Thanks for everything you have done so far, and I'm looking forward to more!

    Best regards,

    Alan Eckert

  • 2. rpx  |  January 29, 2010 at 5:54 am

    …and I read every one of those comments 🙂 Throughly enlightining and also entertaining. When Tam said I believe in Narth, the subsequent comments were Hilarious.

  • 3. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 29, 2010 at 5:57 am

    I am not the one Capping the words below, they are directly from the article:


    Exerpt: The complaint alleges Mr. Pugno misused public funds in violation of the state Political Reform Act while a staffer for State Senator Pete Knight in support of a ballot initiative to ban same-sex marriage, which was eventually approved at the November 2000 election as Proposition 22.

  • 4. Dave T  |  January 29, 2010 at 6:04 am

    Is there anyone else out there who was disappointed by the whole thing?

    I followed the trial closely by reading the postings here (thank you so much for making it available!) and while I'm not disappointed that the defense made such a mess of things, I was looking forward to a more intelligent rational intellectually honest defense.

    I don't think I'm asking for too much when I say I want both sides in a dispute like this to behave like adults – refrain from name calling, pouting, lying, grandstanding, etc. This kind of behaviour by the defense infuriates me – in part because they're slandering and demonizing an group of people, but also because the level of intellectual dishonesty is appalling. I know these people are intelligent, so they must be aware when they lie about something. And doesn't that trouble their conscience just a little, especially since they claim to be standing up for what's right?

    Just stand up and present the best argument you can for your position. If your best argument doesn't win the day, be a grown up and admit that you were wrong.

  • 5. Alan E.  |  January 29, 2010 at 6:47 am

    The worst part is that they can get away with it for now.

  • 6. Ronnie  |  January 29, 2010 at 6:54 am

    They really put the "I"(am) in delusional…yeah?

  • 7. Rod  |  January 29, 2010 at 6:51 am

    I can't say that I'm disappointed in the defense; I'm not surprised by their behavior and I feel vindicated by what they did. There is a certain truth that says that the more argumentative a defense is, the less truth there is in it, and also, that the truth never resents an honest examination.

    The fact that their arguments in court were intellectually dishonest (and essentially the same arguments we've been hearing for years) coupled with the fact that they did everything they could to hide the trial from public view, proves how desperately weak and untrue their position is. If they were on the right side–if their views were the truth–then THEY would be the side wanting the trial in the full view of the public.

    I feel a little ashamed of myself, actually, because I unsure about going to federal court over this just yet. I should have never doubted the power of the TRUTH, though. Sure, we may lose when this gets to the Supreme Court; but I've learned enough in my life already that no one can hold back the truth forever. This trial, I believe, has changed the conversation about marriage equality forever.

  • 8. Andrew  |  January 29, 2010 at 7:02 am

    No, I'm not dissapointed; I'm more worried than ever.
    Time and time again Prop(H)8 was shown they do not care about the truth, but rather in new ways to hide their homophobia.
    The pessimist in me makes me believe they purposefully 'threw' the match, like a heavyweight boxer who falls w/out ever getting hit.
    Why, you ask? Because now they can claim to be the underdog, the victim of the liberal courts. They can claim that GLBTQs are big powerful bullies who are trying to ruin it for everyone — after eating all the children and forcing women to marry multiple horses, of course.

    They know they don't have Amy legitimate reason for their thinly veiled homophobia… All they have is SPIN.

    We must make sure we have more than Just SPIN… we must add the E to the end and have the SPINE to spread the truth.

  • 9. Ronnie  |  January 29, 2010 at 7:26 am

    And they we say but the judge is conservative appointed by a Republican who was voted into office by the will of the people so the ruling was placed by a representative for the will of the people.

    However since only some people voted it is the will of some people not all so to say it is the people is a generalization….Do you get general idea?

    No?… let's start back at one…..the judge is……

  • 10. Richard  |  January 29, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Dave, before something can trouble your conscience, you have to actually have a conscience.

  • 11. Alan E.  |  January 29, 2010 at 6:48 am

    Rick Jacobs was on local station KPFA this morning. It was a very long segment, especially for news items. It starts at about the 32 minute mark and lasts for almost 30 minutes.

  • 12. waxr  |  January 29, 2010 at 10:48 am

    I just listened to it. Rick makes several good points. His comment about the book "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex, But Were Afraid to Ask" is interesting and significant.

  • 13. Don  |  January 29, 2010 at 6:55 am

    I’ve been pondering some of the prop8 witnesses absurd statements. I don’t think they are in the mainstream of thought, even of many of their own supporters. The idea that polygamy is serial marriages of a man and a woman and not of one man and many women. And the importance of biological parents raising children. That they disprove of single parents, step parents, grandparents raising kids, adoptive parents, foster parents as well as GLBT parents It seems that they disprove of some of them more than same sex parents. I think a lot of people that voted for prop 8 would think them ridiculous, even stated in their own words

    The trouble I’m having is that I can’t figure out how to communicate those things to prop 8 supporters who wouldn’t agree with them, with credibility. I don’t think they will believe it. Maybe there is a way to introduce the information through popular culture I’m not sure how a political ad could work, their ideas are so absurd. Facts that people don’t believe, don’t have much effect, no matter how factual. The press coverage of the trial hasn’t seemed to help much to expose their claims, at least the absurd ones.

  • 14. Dave T  |  January 29, 2010 at 7:36 am

    "How to communicate it" is indeed the problem – like you, I have no idea.

    I think part of our problem is that we, as rational, intelligent people, expect clear, logical explanations and arguments to work and we're just flabbergasted when they don't.

    I have to admit I have a particular problem in this area: I am always shocked & appalled when people behave the way the prop 8 folks have, and yet each time I don't learn my lesson. It's like I have some sort of blinders on – I just cannot believe that people behave this way, even when I see them do it over and over.

  • 15. fiona64  |  January 29, 2010 at 8:58 am

    The thing is (and I struggle with this myself) knowing when to cut bait. There will always be some people whose mind is made up and who do not want to be confused with facts, you know? They are not the people who can be reached.

    You're right; we tend to believe that other people are just as rational as ourselves, despite evidence to the contrary. I can tell you that I have reached people with facts and evidence on a variety of controversial issues, but they had to be rational people at the outset.

    I will say that I don't think every Christian is automatically hate-filled and unreachable. I've been so blessed, through my work on marriage equality, to meet the minister and congregation of my local MCC. Until then, you couldn't have gotten me back to church for love nor money. I found out what "real Christians" are really about, in this tiny congregation that gives its time, talent and treasure to help people in need. If I had never gone to a "No on 8" rally, that wouldn't have happened.

    Fundamentalist Evangelicals of any stripe? You can't reach 'em. Moderate religious types, OTOH, are people with whom you can have a conversation and perhaps sway some hearts and minds. I've had a conversation with one colleague, one of the nicest men I've ever met, about Prop 8. He voted in favor, I against. We didn't change each other's minds, but we listened to each other and spoke rationally. We agreed to disagree the way good adults do. Sometimes that's the best you can hope for. Remember, it's reaching one person at a time — because that one person knows people you've never met, and can in turn reach them.


  • 16. Bill Halstead  |  January 29, 2010 at 6:56 am

    Thank you! I just joined the Facebook group.

    I don't expect MY religious beliefs to infringe on the rights of others, so why should I patiently tolerate other people dictating what civil liberties I should or should not have because of THEIR religious beliefs?

  • 17. Andrew  |  January 29, 2010 at 7:18 am

    Amen and Halleluja!

  • 18. Richard W. Fitch  |  January 29, 2010 at 7:36 am

    Thanks to every one involved with P8TT, CC, AFER and all the folks adding their insights to these postings. MSM has hardly touched this event. But we all know that the outcome will have its impact for generaions to come.
    Again Thanks and Love to All,

  • 19. Richard  |  January 29, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Hey, Julia. I know this is off-topic here, but earlier, Brian had a blog post about what is happening in Mexico City that had a Spanish title to it. When I tried to add a commet about the post, I got an Error 404-File Not Found message from the P8TT site. Can you check into that for me? Also, I currently do not have money to send, but since I do have time, I started the first Equality Team in North Carolina. We can't let California be the only ones in this fight!

  • 20. activecitizen54  |  January 29, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Thank you for being here for all of us. As this is now seen as the Hate Campaign that we knew it to be we must, more than ever before, continue to keep the focus on the Truth.

    The Cults of Jesus lies discredit them.
    The Cults of Jesus Hate discredits them.
    The Cults of Jesus are in no way "Christian" and the documentation of the cooperation between the Catholic, Evangelical and LDS/Mormons is seen and discredits them.

    Thank you all for your hard work, courage and the determination to see this through.

  • 21. Linda  |  January 29, 2010 at 10:58 am

    I've made a decision. I am not going to wait for the H8ers to 'give me permission' to have equality. I'm going to go ahead with my life. I have a girlfriend; we will soon be engaged, so she will be my fiancee. We will marry, whether it's legally recognized or not; and she will then be my wife. That's how I will refer to her; that's how I will explain our relationship. Let those who have a problem with it be the ones struggling. Why should I live in constant worry that I might offend the very people who are attempting to deny me my rights? Who are they to say, anyway? I am claiming the words that are rightfully mine–fiancee, marriage, wife. I refuse to use the term 'partner' simply because that's what they want me to do.

    There have been a few songs by the same title recently. And I think that title is appropriate for the way we should live our lives.

    "LIVE 'OUT' LOUD!"

  • 22. jimig  |  January 29, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    How to talk to the yes on 8 supporters, I work with two wonderful ladys both strong in faith one a catholic one a Lutheran. They listen to the conservitive talk shows and the conservitive news blogs. They truely believe all the things they hear that ss will lead to poligamy, that ss will lead to children being married. They are smart people and just don't understand why Civic union isn't enough. They believe what they read from the (whatever it is)

    I am trying to be patient the truth is I don't know the arguments well enough. I have pionted out to them that I am the child of a gay couple that has been together for over 40 years and they have raised three healthy children. I try and point out to them that they are taking away my rights to call my parents my parents and my rights as a family member. I am there son and when they speak against ss they are attacking my family. But I don't know the arguements for the other lies.

    Yesterday I asked about sueing churches, thank you for your responses, I went and talked to my friends about it and they were comforted to know that thier churches would not be sued or forced to perform marriages. That was a huge lie that they believed. Now they know the truth thank you.

  • 23. jimig  |  January 29, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Many of us work or live with or around prop 8 supporter. One of my gay student friends said she was surprised to find out her room mates were against ss. I realized through this tracker and this site just how wide spead the lies about ss were and are.

    I have made it clear on my facebook and to as many people as I can where I stand, my passion is now to educate not to just engage.

  • 24. crisw  |  January 30, 2010 at 6:00 am

    This story was on Pharyngula today- it is a terrible reminder of the inequities in this society-

    "When Highway Patrol Cpl. Dennis Engelhard was killed in a Christmas Day traffic accident near Eureka, the agency described him as single with no children.

    Gov. Jay Nixon called on Missourians to pray for Engelhard's family, who "lost a beloved son and brother."

    Neither statement tells the whole story.

    Engelhard, hit by a car that lost control in the snow, was gay. He left behind a partner of nearly 15 years who was not mentioned in his obituary or official information released by the Highway Patrol, although members of the agency knew about his sexual orientation.

    If Engelhard had been married, his spouse would be entitled to lifetime survivor's benefits from the state pension system — more than $28,000 a year.

    But neither the state Highway Patrol pension system nor Missouri law recognizes domestic partners."

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