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NOM by the numbers: A numerical tour of NOM’s #FAIL

Community/Meta NOM Tour Tracker

by Adam Bink

As the NOM tour came to a close this past weekend, I thought it’d be fun to do an overview of all the highs, lows, and everything in between… with some numbers. I’ve compiled some top-line numbers as an overview, and some on-the-ground numbers from our intrepid team. (Meanwhile, if you want to go down memory lane here are the full archives for your reading pleasure).


Number of states visited: 17 + District of Columbia

Number of locations was on hand: 22

Number of equality supporters, as hand-counted by 3,419 (counts in the extended entry)

Number of NOM supporters, as hand-counted by 1,274 (counts in the extended entry)

Number of views on and combined: 2,926,416

Number of comments on and blog posts combined: 53,803

Number of videos: 171 (we’ll be showcasing some of the extra footage later)

Highest number of views on a video: 32,972 (the video of NOM supporters speaking in tongues in Providence)

Number of photos: 127

And of course, no NOM by the numbers would be complete without some fun dispatches from the road! (courtesy of Anthony, Arisha and Phyllis)

Miles traveled: 6,859. Six thousand, eight hundred and fifty-nine. Wow.

Number of rental cars: Just one.

Number of times staff have been told they cannot film by police: 3 (Annapolis, where Jethro was threatened with arrest; Atlanta, until NOM changed its mind; and St. Louis, where an arbitrary guest list was enforced)

Highest number of tolls the car has gone through in the shortest number of days: 35 in 4 days (while driving through Maine, New York, New Hampshire and Massachusetts)

Number of times lead in the wrong direction by “Miss GPS”:  “Too many to count.”-Anthony

Number of brown suits worn by Brian: 1

Number of questions actually directly answered by Brian: 0

Number of interviews of Brian Brown by Arisha in which he throws his head back and cackles: Every single one.

Most common song played on the car radio: Hands down, it would be Adelle (this is largely the choice of Arisha and Phyllis)

Number of tornado warnings issued on the tour: 3

Number of times luggage was forgot in another city: 1 (cough, Phyllis, cough, 2 hours after leaving Atlanta)

Number of times Phyllis’ phone battery died because of Miss GPS: Once a day

Number of times NOM Tour Trackers spotted NOM bus driver texting or talking on cell phone: Every time we had seen them

Number of hotel keys collected: 14

Number of times NOM Tour Trackers had to buy new clothes because there were no washing machines: 4

Number of bug bites: Countless

Number of times Arisha has made us laugh: Countless

In the extended entry, check out our tour hand-count of attendance at each location, both for equality supporters and NOM supporters…

Hand-counts of supporters at each stop (scroll through the archives if you want to check our math):

Augusta, ME (7/14): 102 equality supporters, 76 NOM supporters

Manchester, NH (7/15): 41 equality supporters, 76 NOM supporters

Albany, NY (7/17): 70 equality supporters, 57 NOM supporters

Providence, RI (7/18): 175 equality supporters, 150 NOM supporters

Trenton, NJ (7/20): 158 equality supporters,  48 NOM supporters

Annapolis, MD (7/21): *6 equality supporters, 27 NOM supporters

Columbus, OH (7/23): 120 equality supporters, 30 NOM supporters

Lima, OH (7/24): 19 equality supporters, 22 NOM supporters

Indianapolis, IN (7/26): 183 equality supporters, 39 NOM supporters

Madison, WI (7/27): 466 equality supporters, 54 NOM supporters

St. Paul, MN (7/28): 217 equality supporters, 163 NOM supporters

St. Cloud, MN (7/29): 89 equality supporters, 73 NOM supporters

Rochester, MN (7/30): 7 equality supporters, 18 NOM supporters

Des Moines, IA (8/1): 298 equality supporters, 86 NOM supporters

Sioux City, IA (8/3): 64 equality supporters, 54 NOM supporters

St. Louis, MO (8/5): 214 equality supporters, 35 NOM supporters

Atlanta, GA (8/7): 254 equality supporters, 16 NOM supporters

Orlando, FL (8/8): 134 equality supporters, 34 NOM supporters

Raleigh, NC (8/10): 255 equality supporters, 61 NOM supporters

Charleston, WV (8/11): 146 equality supporters, 18 NOM supporters

Harrisburg, PA (8/13): *53 equality supporters, 75 NOM supporters

Washington, DC (8/15): 348 equality supporters, 62 NOM supporters

*Equality supporters chose to organize  a separate event at a different time in response

Augusta, Maine,
July 14th, 2010
Pro-Equality 102
Anti-Equality 76
Manchester, New Hampshire
July 15th, 2010
Pro-Equality 41
Anti-Equality 76
Albany, New York
July 17th, 2010
Pro-Equality 70
Anti-Equality 57
Providence, Rhode Island
July 18th, 2010
Pro-Equality 175
Anti-Equality 150
Trenton, New Jersey
July 20th, 2010
Pro-Equality 158
Anti-Equality 48
Annapolis, Maryland
July 21st, 2010
Pro-Equality 97
Anti-Equality 27
Columbus, Ohio
July 23rd, 2010
Pro-Equality 120
Anti-Equality 30
Lima, Ohio
July 24th, 2010
Pro-Equality 19
Anti-Equality 22
Indianapolis, Indiana
July 26th, 2010
Pro-Equality 183
Anti-Equality 39
Madison, Wisconsin
July 27th, 2010
Pro-Equality 466
Anti-Equality 54
Saint Paul, Minnesota
July 28th, 2010
Pro-Equality 217
Anti-Equality 163
Saint Cloud, Minnesota
July 29th, 2010
Pro-Equality 89
Anti-Equality 73
Rochester, Minnesota
July 30th, 2010
Pro-Equality 7
Anti-Equality 18
Des Moines, Iowa
August 1st, 2010
Pro-Equality 298
Anti-Equality 86
Soiux City, Iowa
August 3rd, 2010
Pro-Equality 64
Anti-Equality 54
St. Louis, Missouri
August 5th, 2010
Pro-Equality 214
Anti-Equality 35
Atlanta, Georgia
August 7th, 2010
Pro-Equality 254
Anti-Equality 16
Orlando, Florida
August 8th, 2010
Pro-Equality 134
Anti Equality 34
Raleigh NC
Pro equality 255
Anti equality 61
Charleston, WV
Pro equality 146
Anti equality 18
Harrisburg, PA
Pro-equality 53
Anti Equality 75
Washington, DC
Pro-equality 348
Anti-equality 62


  • 1. Ronnie  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:02 am

    Me first…subcalculating…<3…Ronnie

  • 2. Ann S.  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:05 am


  • 3. Ķĭŗîļĺę&  |  August 18, 2010 at 11:10 am


  • 4. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:47 am

    Very late to the Scribe party!

  • 5. Straight Ally #3008  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:06 am

    Number of examples provided by NOM of how same-sex marriage harms marriages between a man and a woman: 0

  • 6. Trish  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:22 am

    But it's a WORD! and you can't redefine WORDS!

    That's why I still speak Old English:

    WHAN that Aprille with his shoures soote
    The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,
    And bathed every veyne in swich 3 licour,
    Of which vertu engendred is the flour . . .

  • 7. Straight Ally #3008  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:28 am

    Chaucerian references FTW!

  • 8. JonT  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:30 am

    Oh, we can go further than that 🙂

    An preost wes on leoden, Laȝamon was ihoten
    He wes Leovenaðes sone — liðe him be Drihten.
    He wonede at Ernleȝe at æðelen are chirechen,
    Uppen Sevarne staþe, sel þar him þuhte,
    Onfest Radestone, þer he bock radde.

  • 9. Straight Ally #3008  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:30 am

    Also: what are words for?

  • 10. Josiah  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:35 am

    Shame on you, Trish, trying to pass off Middle English as Old English! I won't have any of that modern Chaucerian rubbish spoken around here. I insist we stick to real Old English:

    Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
    þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
    hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.

  • 11. Josiah  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:35 am

    I think I'm going to start all my posts with "Hwæt!" from now on.

  • 12. Felyx  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Words can never be changed or redefined… it is unrefudiatable!!!

  • 13. Felyx  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:57 am

    ƿot þæ foċ!!!

  • 14. Trish  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:58 am


    It's also why we still don't have a word for the "internets". And why when you go to the market, it means that you are going to the street where vendors are lined up and down selling you their wares. And why "fun" is only a noun and not an adjective.

    And why none of what I wrote just now makes any sense because they're all made-up words that changed the meanings of the words before them! The only way we would be speaking the TRUE words would be if we went back to REAL old English!

  • 15. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 18, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    You would quote from the opening to The Canterbury Tales, wouldn't you? I could never understand what was written until my junior English teacher in highs school played the recording that was done by a Shakespearean actor. Once it was spoken, I could understand it and follow along.

  • 16. StraightForEquality  |  August 18, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    Then "gay" must still mean festive or happy. So why do they object to gay marriages?

  • 17. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 19, 2010 at 3:29 am

    Because if their marriages aren't festive and happy, then nobody can have marriages that are festive and happy.

  • 18. fiona64  |  August 19, 2010 at 1:40 am

    Don't stop there, Josiah; people want to know the rest of the chapter!

    oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
    monegum mægþum meodosetla ofteah,
    egsode eorlas, syððanærest wearð
    feasceaft funden; he þæs frofre gebad,
    weox under wolcnum weorðmyndum þah,
    oð þæt him æghwylc ymbsittendra
    ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
    gomban gyldan; þæt wæs god cyning!
    Ðæm eafera wæs æfter cenned
    geong in geardum, þone God sende
    folce to frofre; fyrenðearfe ongeat,
    þe hie ær drugon aldorlease
    lange hwile; him þæs Liffrea,
    wuldres Wealdend woroldare forgeaf,
    Beowulf wæs breme — blæd wide sprang—
    Scyldes eafera Scedelandum in.
    Swa sceal geong guma gode gewyrcean,
    fromum feohgiftumon fæder bearme,


  • 19. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 19, 2010 at 3:31 am

    And now I am going to see if I can find an audio to link here of The Canterbury Tales so that all of us can listen and read along. To me, they are just lovely when spoken, and easier to understand.

  • 20. fiona64  |  August 19, 2010 at 5:50 am

    Hi, Richard!

    What Josiah and I posted is from Beowulf. 🙂

    The Seamus Heaney translation is my favorite — and it has the Old English on one page and the translation on the facing one, so you can see them together.


  • 21. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 19, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Thank you, fiona. And my English teacher had a recording of that in the original. Beautiful when read properly. Of course, I am rather biased toward hearing a Shakespearean actor or actress read it who is capable of the cultured accent.

  • 22. Zachary  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:25 am

    Number of interviews of Brian Brown by Arisha in which he throws his head back and cackles: Every single one.

    Haha! Classic.

  • 23. Valerie  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:28 am

    How many parking lots were visited?

  • 24. AndrewPDX  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:38 am

    LOL!!!! Good question!

    How about How many imaginary participants did NOM claim to have had at each stop?

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 25. adambink  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Good one. 3, I believe.

  • 26. Dave in ME  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:29 am

    This is really funny!

    Dave in Maine

  • 27. Felyx  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:30 am

    That's not fair!!! I only showed up at one of our rallies. Anna Bryan showed up to a bunch of theirs! She was just boosting their numbers that awful witch!!!

    Felyx 😛

  • 28. Chris in Lathrop  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:55 pm

    Felyx, please be careful how you use the word 'witch'. <|:)

  • 29. Alan E.  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:42 am

    I've missed so much today!

  • 30. Ronnie  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:44 am

    How many dry cleaning bills were paid for by the ones of tens of NOMbies for Brainless Brown Suit's suit?

  • 31. Hi  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Is this prop 8 tracker a blog on agreement or opposition of prop 8? Or just blogs in general to prop 8!

  • 32. Jeff  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:49 am

    It is a site from the pro-equality side of marriage.

  • 33. Hi  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Ok. Thanks. I don't belong here. But thanks. Have a good night!! 

  • 34. Ann S.  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:52 am

    There are a few people over in the prior post I'd like you to meet.

  • 35. Felyx  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Wow! If only ALL of NOM was so polite!!! – Felyx

  • 36. Bolt  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:08 am

    It's open to agreement, and opposition to prop 8. I oppose prop 8 with all of my heart, but some of the things I've said against it have been evaporated, so watch out.

  • 37. Kathleen  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Huh? Are you suggesting your posts disappear?

  • 38. Bolt  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:48 am

    @Kathleen, they did once or twice because I had an emotional release. Now I throw eggs out of my window.

  • 39. Kathleen  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:55 am

    I'm surprised. We've had some pretty heated exchanges here and there have been a couples of people who've been blocked from posting, but for the most part, moderators here let things through.

  • 40. draNgNon  |  August 18, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    my post on the last entry linking to 's posts on gay rights was blocked.

  • 41. Kathleen  |  August 18, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    If you put more than one link in your comment, it gets stuck in moderation. In the evening, that often means waiting until the morning for it to clear.

  • 42. carpoolcookie  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:47 am

    I really hope NOM does another tour. We can put together a kind of USO entertainment troupe, to perform on the sidewalks outside events.

  • 43. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 18, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Really? Need a nice little Jewish boy who can sing country? I specialize in love songs. Would love to build an audience and hopefully get discovered.

  • 44. Elizabeth Oakes  |  August 18, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Do you know, "How Can I Miss You If You Won't Go Away?" That would be a good song to sing to NOM.

  • 45. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 18, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    I will find that and learn it.

  • 46. Kathleen  |  August 18, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks. One of the albums that was the sound track of my early 20s!

  • 47. Anonygrl  |  August 19, 2010 at 2:59 am

    And if we ever get music sorted out, you can sing MY song too! 🙂

  • 48. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 19, 2010 at 10:51 am

    Hopefully more than once. I think I may have to actually break down and buy one of those headsets like you use for Skype in order to get it into the drive system.

  • 49. Straight Ally #3008  |  August 18, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    NOM will be the new Westboro Baptist Church!

  • 50. Chris in Lathrop  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    GOD hates brown suits. And ugly buses. 😉

  • 51. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 19, 2010 at 3:08 am

    And just like Shug Avery said, G-d gets upset when you pass by the color purple and don't notice it. And you have to admit, She did give us some gorgeous shades of purple to look at, didn't She?

  • 52. JonT  |  August 18, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Ok, I had not actually seen the video of the 'talking in tongues' guys – I'd just heard about it and seen a picture of them.

    The video is worth a thousand words (and several giggles)

    🙂 Damn.

  • 53. Straight Ally #3008  |  August 18, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    The video is worth a thousand words

    Yeah, all of them unintelligible! ;-D

  • 54. Lora  |  August 18, 2010 at 1:47 pm


    Seriously…I laughed out oud!

  • 55. Kathleen  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Taking a break from plumbing nightmares to subscribe

  • 56. PhillyKarl  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:04 am

    LOL! I love each and every one of youse guys. Here's a big smootchy kiss for all you gals and guys who have replaced my despair with so much laughter and hope.

  • 57. AndrewPDX  |  August 18, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Tee hee… 'youse guys'… love when people type with an accent 🙂

    If laughter is the best medicine, then we should all be in great health around here!

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 58. Anna Bryan  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:13 am

    That video of people speaking in tongues is absolutely priceless.

  • 59. SFBay  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:23 am

    eegad, that speaking in tongues thingy creeped me out. Doesn't he look a heck of a lot like Jimmy Swaggert? If he's anything like the usual evangelist he's cheating on his wife…maybe with a guy…nothing surptises me anymore.

  • 60. carpoolcookie  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:32 am


    There are the people lecturing us on what's "natural".

  • 61. Tomato  |  August 18, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    White Shirt wasn't feeling the spirit enough to babble as much as Brown Shirt, but oooh, was he ever feeling the shoulder of Brown Shirt…

  • 62. Rebecca  |  August 19, 2010 at 1:18 am

    Do you have to be…ehem…using a controlled substance to actually believe you can speak in tongues?

    Sounds like something that would only be possible in that altered state. Otherwise you'd realize you weren't saying actual words.

  • 63. fiona64  |  August 19, 2010 at 1:43 am

    The Pentecostal and Charismatic movements think it is evidence that God is upon you. I learned about this in one of my cultural anthro courses; it was really kind of fascinating from a strictly scientific perspective.


  • 64. carpoolcookie  |  August 19, 2010 at 10:37 am

    I spoke with someone who at one point was a sincere Baptist….and when it happened to her once, she thought it was her mind just snapping under peer pressure. There's a lot of pressure to seem devout. She thinks she just "let go". (Then, she left.)

  • 65. HunterR.  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:25 am

    I wish I could go!

    "Angered by the fact that the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals granted a stay to proponents of Proposition 8, gay rights activists are now planning a demonstration on Thursday night in West Hollywood.

    "There's a sense of frustration for why people can't get married this week," says Arturo Sernas, a Los Angeles-based gay rights activist. "There was supposed to be a celebration tonight."

    Sernas, who's organizing the demonstration, is referring to the fact that U.S. District Court Judge Vaughn Walker's ruling, which found Proposition 8 to be unconstitutional, was supposed to go into effect tonight at 5 p.m.

    At that time, gay and lesbian couples would have been allowed to marry, but the Ninth Circuit granted anti-gay marriage forces a stay, which now puts gay marriage in California on hold until at least December and possibly longer.

    Officials in Los Angeles County and West Hollywood were gearing up to wed gay couples tonight before the stay was ordered.

    Sernas suggests that gay and lesbian couples who were planning to marry, as well as anyone else upset with the stay, should gather in West Hollywood at the corner of Santa Monica and San Vicente boulevards at 6 p.m. on Thursday night.

    The protest, Sernas says, is a way to remind the public that "the LGBT community will continue to fight until full federal equality has been achieved."

    Sernas, who's in his mid-20s, sounds similar themes that other twenty- and thirty-somethings spoke about in the L.A. Weekly story "Young Gay Dreams of Matrimony," in which they discuss marriage and equality."

    Contact Patrick Range McDonald at [email protected].

  • 66. Bolt  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:44 am

    L.A. protests look like fun!

    [youtube =]

  • 67. Mark M  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:27 am

    This is so funny!
    Thanks everyone for the grins, giggles, and laughs tonight!
    I love you all so very much!

  • 68. Karen  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Maybe the 9th circuit should've put a stay on all marriages until this was resolved.

  • 69. Kathleen  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Oh, excellent idea!

  • 70. Straight Grandmother  |  August 18, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Sure good idea. Think of it this way, one day they had a right to get married and then the next day they didn't.
    They might even start thier own websites and protest, ya think?
    Sure let's stop ALL marriges until this is resolved.

  • 71. Straight Ally #3008  |  August 18, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    No, no! You harm people when you prevent them from getting married like that! Oh, wait….

  • 72. Bolt  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:29 am

    A NYT article about Ted Olson, and his wife, Lady Booth Olson.….

    She was a front row witness in the Perry v. Schwarzenegger trial.

  • 73. Owen  |  August 18, 2010 at 11:46 am

    “He would have never been able to take the other side,” she said, before adding with a laugh, “He wouldn’t have had a wife after that!”

    I love this woman! She restores my faith in humanity after reading what happened with Brian Brown's wife. -_-

  • 74. Bolt  |  August 18, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    What happened to BB's wife?

  • 75. fiona64  |  August 19, 2010 at 1:44 am

    BB's wife was okay with same-sex marriage until she met Brian and he helped her understand the error of her ways.

    /Reader's Digest version


  • 76. Bennett  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:48 am

    A NOM poster placed an etymology analogy of the word marriage in NOMs blog comments say it was, from another time, in Greek, or Latin, or whatever, and meant "the making of a mother".

    Well, who is to know? It may have well meant that according the Funk and Wagnall’s of that time, but perhaps the "traditional definition of the day" had been redefined from even earlier periods. Who knows what Lucy's generation or even Grandma and Grandpa Ameba’s generation might have held marriage to be.
    But as with everything else in Christianity, leave it to the Greek, or the Latin.

    How else to think about this. Oh yeah! Go as far back as you need to get the traditions you want, and then pretend like the remainder of human history never happened. I wonder if Latin is preferred over Greek for obvious reasons. It seems it developed again more recently from "the making of a mother" to "the union of at least one man and how ever many woman suits you."

    Please excuse my ignorance of actual historic facts and periods of history, but this is what my mind strings together when presented with etymology as a justification for treating anyone unequally undeservedly.
    And let me just add, Marriage equality is just the beginning, without the world experiencing marriage equality and the sky not falling, then NOM types can potentially roll back all gains in employment, housing, adoption, ect, all the way back to Leviticus style executions. This is exactly what happened in Hitlers Germany. Trust me, I have spent much time growing up in conservative Christian circles and I know that the lambs (followers) in the pews can be expected to react to “Homosexuals deserve to die” with anywhere from silent consent, to enthusiastic AMEN. Of course they will also say that they deserve to die, as do their children upon reaching “the age of accountability.” It’s in their theology. Everyone deserves to die. I don’t believe that. Maybe I disagree with God, but it isn’t the first time.

    I just think it is very dangerous for gay people and kinda feel like its a "now or never" situation. I wonder if Prop 8 would have still received a “vast majority” of votes is the votes from those who would also see gays killed were invalidated. Hmmmmmm. Just saying.

  • 77. Leo  |  August 18, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    It probably hasn't occurred to the NOM poster that English is but one of many languages that have a word for marriage, and each has its own etymology. For example, in Russian, the word meaning "marriage" is derived from the word meaning "take." Obviously, the nature of marriage isn't dependent on the language that a third party uses to describe it.

  • 78. Chris in Lathrop  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    Let's try this post again, since it failed. 🙂

    Actually, the posting about 'the making of a mother' was in reference to the word 'matrimony.' I looked it up, and they're right. However, you're so right that etymology is no basis for discrimination. Also interesting to note, Encarta cites as the etymological background of 'to marry' thus: [13th century. Via French marier< Latin maritare< maritus "married person, husband"].

    I ask NOM: where is the wife in marriage???

  • 79. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 19, 2010 at 3:12 am

    three paces behind her husband, and one pace to his left. Usually with one baby on each hip, two or three in strollers or on harnesses, and one in her belly.
    After all, they only believe in "traditional" marriage.
    I for one, think they need to look a little deeper to find the traditions involved in marriage, and they need to do more sociological and cultural research. If I were on the reservation, I am quite sure that not only would they perform the ceremony to wed me to BZ, I would probably be either a shaman or the local herbalist to help with any illnesses.

  • 80. fiona64  |  August 19, 2010 at 1:46 am

    That person depending upon Funk and Wagnall's is really ignorant of the history of marriage in Western Civilization — to say nothing of the various forms of kinship relationships found all over the world today.

    Just in case anyone ever needs it:

    History of Marriage in Western Civilization


  • 81. Bennett  |  August 19, 2010 at 4:03 am

    My family's understanding of marriage considered whether or not a wife should obey her husband, called subjection, if she felt that her husbands instructions were contrary to what God said. The idea was because marriage united them as one, the husband was to obey God, the wife was to obey the husband, and therefore would be obeying God. The end result was that the husband was saved by obeying God, the wife would be saved by obeying the husband without regard to obeying God.

    Hmmmmm. I wonder if it was God or Husbands that came up with this gem of systamatic theology. I thought it was kinda messed up at the time. Still do.

  • 82. Bennett  |  August 19, 2010 at 4:09 am

    But, in short, marriage united them into one, as in one person, no longer distinct. Also the reason for a woman referring to herself as Mrs "Husbands First Name" "Middle Initial" and "Last Name." She had ceased to exist. She was Mrs. of her husband.

    My mother even used to perplex us by asking us who went to her wedding but never came out. The answer. She did. She went in with one name and identity, and came out with the identity of her husband, my father.

    I guess the traditional deffinition of marriage is the one that you devine from polling to see what can get the most traction with the most people but still further the end result of leveraging all animus toward discrimination.

    Spelling be damned!

  • 83. fiona64  |  August 19, 2010 at 5:56 am

    Both of you are referring to something called coverture which, thank the gods, was removed from the US code of law in the 1930s … but was part and parcel of French law until well after World War II.

    It basically meant that a married woman had no identity outside of being Mrs. Bob Somebody. Any money that she earned was his, she had no right to own property in her own name, in some places could not get a bank account in her own name, and even her clothing and jewelry technically belong to him.

    In one extreme example, told to me by the husband in question, a woman was having a horrible birth and the doctors realized that they could only save the woman or the infant, but not both. Without asking the woman her thoughts at all, they asked the husband which one he wanted to save — because, under coverture, the woman didn't even have the right to make her own life v. death medical decisions.

    The husband chose his wife, FWIW … but that's what the reality of "traditional marriage" looked like for a good deal of our country's history.

    Fiona (who researched coverture laws to make sure that she had the facts straight for her novel)

  • 84. fiona64  |  August 19, 2010 at 5:56 am

    Oops … that should be "both of your posts," not both of you.


    Fiona (who sometimes wishes for an "edit" button)

  • 85. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 19, 2010 at 11:41 am

    @ Bennett: That was an omission on the part of whoever taught that. Before my conversion to Judaism, I recall reading where if the wife were the one who followed G-d, she could save the husband through her example.
    OH, wait, maybe that is what NOM and its ilk are afraid of. They are afraid that instead of destroying the institution of marriage, that we will actually save it, because we will actually treat marriage the way it is supposed to be treated–with love, respect, honor and equality.

  • 86. Dpeck  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:57 am

    …( sigh )….

    In my front hall, I have a little table where I keep my car keys. I just noticed that my camera is still sitting on that table. I had charged the battery and wiped the memory in anticipation of going to S.F. City Hall today to participate in the wedding celebrations.

    It's now almost 6 PM and I would have been arriving there right about now. Instead, I'm sitting here at home alone and it's just another Wednesday night. It's laundry night.

    My attitude has been generally pretty good, in my opinion. But I'm not even mad right now. It's just depressing and it hurts. Dammit this sucks.

  • 87. Straight Grandmother  |  August 18, 2010 at 11:33 am


  • 88. Elizabeth Oakes  |  August 18, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Yeah three.

  • 89. AndrewPDX  |  August 18, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Yeah… it's a sad night, but it is not the end, the fight will continue. And in the end, we will win. Not because we are 'better', but simply because we are on the side of 'right'.

    You gotta give 'em HOPE — Harvey Milk

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 90. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 18, 2010 at 11:57 am

    This calls for a really rockin' video!

  • 91. Dpeck  |  August 18, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Thanks Richard. I was thinking along the same lines, but perhaps a bit more extreme – I just finished blasting a Metallica CD at maximum volume. Yes, it was rather butch. That doesn't make me a bad person, does it?

    I feel better now : )

  • 92. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 18, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    No, it doesn't make you a bad person. It just means that you refuse to be anyone but yourself, and you are not going to be placed into some stereotype that doesn't fit. You rock out any way you choose!

  • 93. Lightning Baltimore  |  August 18, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    Depends on which Metallica CD it was.


  • 94. Dpeck  |  August 19, 2010 at 1:57 am

    Well, DUH! : ) Master of Puppets.

  • 95. Lightning Baltimore  |  August 19, 2010 at 2:16 am


    MoP is good, but I prefer Ride the Lightning.

  • 96. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 19, 2010 at 3:37 am

    Okay, boys, be nice. You have both just listed what I consider to be the two best CD's ever by Metallica, and I would have to have both of them, because I would not be able to pick one over the other.

  • 97. Chris in Lathrop  |  August 19, 2010 at 7:24 am

    I love Ride the Lightning!!! But, so long as it's not St. Anchor, I love Metallica. m//

  • 98. Taelyn  |  August 19, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Agreed; Kill 'Em All would do nicely about now.

    Then again, I'm a full blown metal head, and I don't think that makes me butch at all – and nothing is wrong with being butch either lol

    Personally, I think tonight's looking like an Emperor night. INNO

    ~Taelyn, bassist for Gods Weapon, and bi transgirl/lurker professional

  • 99. Alan E.  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:24 am

    Lars lives just around the bend from a friend of mine in northern Marin. There is a trail that goes right through his property (on the outskirts, though). He put up a fence and made people build a new one.

  • 100. Andrew Adaro  |  August 18, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Thank god it's coming to an end. I was tired of the little voice in my head shouting every time I read #NOMturnoutFAIL

    maybe that's just me though.

  • 101. Jeff  |  August 18, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    Great new article on CNN: It's The Evidence Stupid….

    "Despite "able and energetic counsel," they never produced it. That's why they lost, resoundingly, in the federal district court. And that lack of evidence should dog opponents up through the chain of appeals that is now beginning, because appellate courts are required to review only the evidence in the court record and to give great deference to Judge Vaughn Walker's findings of fact. He was there, after all, presiding over the trial, and the appellate judges weren't."

  • 102. MJFargo  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    This was my favorite summary of the trial in the popular media.

  • 103. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 19, 2010 at 3:14 am

    Especially, since it shows that Ms. Bloom, like our legal eagles here, knows her law.

  • 104. Lightning Baltimore  |  August 18, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Has anyone seen yet the alleged footage Brian Brown claims NOM has of teh gays telling children they are going to kidnap them?

  • 105. Anonygrl  |  August 19, 2010 at 3:07 am

    Yes, I've seen it. It is in the video of the people in Providence up in Brian's face yelling at him. At one point, someone off camera says (in a very sarcastic voice, and I might be paraphrasing a bit) "Ooh better watch it, or we might kidnap that kid!". It sounded very much like a reply to one of those anti-gay "They want to steal our children!" things.

  • 106. Kathleen  |  August 19, 2010 at 3:20 am

    i saw that. that's exactly how i took the comment. you can see it the clip on the video at nom's marriage tour site – about a minute or so in.

  • 107. Sagesse  |  August 18, 2010 at 6:30 pm


  • 108. mattymatt  |  August 18, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Have you seen this?

    "Lawyers may move to recover Prop. 8 court costs," it says. In other words, if Perry is upheld, it could cost the Proponents millions. Good grief. That certainly would be a dent in their pocketbook.

  • 109. MJFargo  |  August 18, 2010 at 10:42 pm

    Yes, there was an article (and long harangues) on SFGate yesterday. I'm trying not to gloat.

  • 110. Kate  |  August 19, 2010 at 1:41 am

    Does this work both ways? If, by some legal act of horror the Prop 8 folks win instead of us, do they get to go after their legal costs, too?

  • 111. Ann S.  |  August 19, 2010 at 2:25 am

    I have to admit this puzzles me. Usually attorneys' fees are not recoverable from the other side absent a contract provision where the parties each agree to pay the prevailing party's attorneys' fees in the event of a lawsuit. I don't know on what basis the plaintiffs can recover fees from the proponents.

  • 112. Kathleen  |  August 19, 2010 at 2:55 am

    See 54(d)

  • 113. Ann S.  |  August 19, 2010 at 3:04 am

    @Kathleen, if I'm reading this right, this supports what I'm saying — our side can recover costs, but not attorneys' fees. Are they only asking for costs, and the press is reading that to mean "fees"? Aren't costs likely to be trivial compared to fees? I feel as though I am missing something here. I honestly can't get very excited about recovering "costs".

  • 114. Kathleen  |  August 19, 2010 at 4:36 am

    See 54(d)(2). A claim for attorney's fees is not guaranteed, but must be requested by motion and the motion must be filed within 14 days. Plaintiffs are asking for additional time to file their motion asking for attorney's fees.

  • 115. Ann S.  |  August 19, 2010 at 4:42 am

    Interesting. Not my area, and our legal team would know better than me, but it seems surprising to me. Perhaps there is precedent.

  • 116. Kathleen  |  August 19, 2010 at 5:15 am

    These are rules that govern federal district courts. There may not be an analogous provision under state law.

  • 117. Jonathon  |  August 19, 2010 at 1:40 am

    OT….but my partner and I were wondering about something with regards to the the whole appeal process. Why would the 9th Circuit have both sides do all of the work of preparing their case for the appeal, etc. spend all the time, effort and money (for the next few months), to only deny (potentially) the Article III standing of the Prop 8 folks? Doesn't that seem like a big waste of money and time? Does it really take them 3 months to determine whether the Prop 8 folks have "standing?"

  • 118. Kathleen  |  August 19, 2010 at 5:25 am

    UPDATE: Administration's (including Schwarzenegger's) Statement of Non-Opposition to Plaintiffs' and P-Is' Motions re timing of application for attorney fees and costs

    This relates to a series of motions of Plaintiffs and P-Is having to do with reimbursement for attorneys fees and costs. They ask for an extension of the time allowed to file motions for the request. See Doc 729.

  • 119. carpoolcookie  |  August 19, 2010 at 5:28 am

    I'm wondering is our little "I read it on the Internets" Dr. Tam will have to sell his house to pay for the court costs?

  • 120. truthspew  |  August 19, 2010 at 9:59 am

    I have to dispute Providence bigot count. If they had 90 people on the NOM side it would be a stretch. I got in early and shot video.

    Maybe the NOM Bus had the other 60 people.

  • 121. Michael  |  August 19, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Everyone at this website and at NomTourTracker did an EXCELLENT job. I checked this site every day and enjoyed all the updates on the NOM Hate Tour. Every single one of you deserve a big pat on the back. Thank you so much!

  • 122. Phyllis Lozano  |  August 22, 2010 at 9:13 am

    Reading the highlights of the tour brings a smile to my face. Thank you P8TT family for all of your comments and love that you have sent us throughout the tour.

    I have been home and remarkably I miss the hustle and bustle of being on the road. I was truly blessed to be apart of this project. I pray that there WONT be another NOM tour anytime soon, but if there is…IM FIRED UP, AND READY TO GO!

  • 123. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 22, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Actually, Phyllis, we have been thinking about a P8TT marriage tour. And since it is nearly fall, we could call it the Courage Campaign/AFER/Freedom To Marry Fall in love all over again Tour!

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  • 130. They’re baaaaaack: &hellip  |  September 27, 2010 at 11:12 am

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