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NOM’s radio ad attack on Judge Walker: “Should ‘San Francisco Values’ be imposed on the rest of America?”

NOM Exposed Right-wing

By Eden James

Get a load of this:

We’ll see where this new radio ad from NOM pops up.

Use this as an Open Thread to discuss NOM’s attack ad or whatever you would like to talk about…



  • 1. Ann S.  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Sings: "Marriage Equality, the San Francisco Treat!"

  • 2. Bolt  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:57 am

    LOL! Cute. I get it.

  • 3. Ann S.  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:05 am

    As I posted elsewhere, those NOMbies are happy to clog our streets and buy cheap trinkets at Fisherman's Wharf all summer, all the while disparaging "San Francisco values" (as if a city can have any values . . . ). They're probably taking in a few of the strip shows on Broadway while disparaging SF values, too.

  • 4. fiona64  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:59 am

    "2- (man) A gay San Francisco Federal Judge has ruled that marriage between one man and one woman is discriminatory and unconstitutional. "

    Um, no. That is not what the ruling said at all. It said that denying same-sex couples the right to marry was discriminatory and unconstitutional.

    I guess "San Francisco Values" include telling the truth — unlike NOM values. I'll take SFO over NOM any day.


  • 5. Elizabeth Oakes  |  August 28, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Yes, be afraid of "San Francisco Values"…like "TURN YOUR WHEELS TO THE CURB WHEN PARKING ON HILL OR YOU WILL BE TICKETED!" Fascist pigs!!

  • 6. Ann S.  |  August 28, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Elizabeth, that was LOL!

  • 7. Ronnie  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Subscribing with….Should NOM's Fascist Values be imposed on the rest of America?…. > I ….Ronnie

  • 8. Ķĭŗîļĺę&  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Subbing and domming o_O

  • 9. Felyx  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Cats for the illegalization of all marriage!!!

  • 10. Kathleen  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:07 am

    I'm surprised they didn't use the phrase "shoving it down our throats." Seems to be one of their favorite. 🙂

  • 11. carpoolcookie  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:57 am

    Such a strangely vivid image, too.

    They're fixated!

  • 12. Elizabeth Oakes  |  August 28, 2010 at 11:51 am

    Yah, "Freud-Schmeud," huh?

  • 13. AndrewPDX  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:24 pm


    That is probably oh-so-true!

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 14. Linda  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:09 am

    They have no shame! (no morals, either).

    Hey Brian…."You LIE!!!"

  • 15. Max  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:17 am

    "Time is short to save traditional marriage."

    At least they're being honest.

  • 16. Felyx  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Please NOM!! Help us shorten the time!!! LOL Felyx

  • 17. LB  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:22 am

    Don't these NOM people know that SF is one of the top 10 best cities in the world for tourist destination for many..many years in the row? What about the income from travel industries the govt. uses to improve the living for this people.

  • 18. Owen  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Not only that, but the Bay Area gets high marks for all sorts of livability measurements.

    The NOM Ministry of Information strikes again.

  • 19. Brad Larsen  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:23 am

    This is disgraceful.

  • 20. Alex  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:26 am

    You know when anti-gay people are in the stone age when they still think all gay people live in San Francisco. Are they blind? All of us homo's everywhere yet they are too blind to even see. They go back to the ignorant anti-gay comments about "San Francisco Values". It has really got old.

  • 21. Alan E.  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:51 am

    All the NOM supporters see is that the trial took place in SF and the judge is gay (evidence pending). QED SF values are forcing people in all of 'Murka to get gay married.

  • 22. Felyx  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Hate to tell you all, but stone-age people didn't give a rat's ass about marriage!!! Even stone age people had more common sense… just sayin'! – Felyx Unga Unga!

  • 23. Marlene  |  August 27, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Felix Oop you mean…. 😉

  • 24. fiona64  |  August 30, 2010 at 3:36 am


    According to "Caveman" (starring Ringo Starr), "aloonda" means love.

    Fiona aloonda friends at P8TT.


  • 25. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Well, I cannot say that I am surprised at this ad. This is just more of the same old crybaby tactics they have been using all along. But I really hope that Judge Walker files a slander suit or something against them. He has never stated what his orientation is, and it absolutely does NOT matter in any way to this case. And why are they implying that equality under the law is only a San Francisco value system? If I were the rest of the American public that actually knows and realizes what the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution truly stand for, I would be writing NOM in a heartbeat telling them exactly where to get off. I canot do that personally, as they have blocked my IP address and emails to them keep getting rejected.

  • 26. Felyx  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Frankly I kinda like the ad… I found myself saying, "That's true, that's true, yes, yes… No I won't join your organization!" I think there are a lot of people out there who will hear this ad and find it to be just what it is… ridiculous rhetoric. After a while it gets old. The more NOM, CWA, KOC (suckers:P) etc. put this message out there, the more ordinary reasonable individuals will be educated that Marriage for gays is a real issue and the more they will seek to distance themselves from the distasteful philosophy of these bigoted organizations.

    Once again I really believe that their money and time really is doing us a huge favor. Fear motivates for only so long. People really do get educated on the issues. The worst thing they could do to us at this point is to completely drop the issue and force us to stir up enough support all on our own to finally get our rights. If the people didn't step in we would have had a shallow victory for Prop8 that would not have nearly the potency that it now does.

    I am not an instigator but if there was ever a time when I would goad on the opposition it is now. Their money is helping us. They might even have to shell out for our expensive attorneys! I know this is an odd take on the situation but it is very much like yin style martial arts… the opposition is uneducated, fearful and wealthy. As the minority we can use these traits to our advantage. 2012 People! I am keeping my hopes high! The force is with us! – Felyx

  • 27. JonT  |  August 27, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    I agree Felyx… There's an old saying:

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak, and remove all doubt.

    I think this applies to NOM and the other hater orgs out there.

    The more they talk, the more their real biases reveal themselves.

    This is a good thing IMO.

  • 28. draNgNon  |  August 27, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    now Richard, really, you don't need your IP address to communicate with them…

  • 29. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 27, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    I am talking about the electronic signature of my computer. I have tried several email addresses, and each time I get a notice that the recipient has blocked all communication coming from the IP address of my computer. And the only other computers would be those at the local libraries, and the NOM sites are blocked from those. Guess the NC Public Library System is even smarter than I gave them credit for..

  • 30. JonT  |  August 27, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Richard, try turning off your cable/dsl modem for a couple hours.

    Likely you'll get a new IP address on restart.

    Then, setup a 'throwaway' email address at gmail for example, and *use* gmail directly (not via any software on your computer, like outlook whatever windows abominations are popular today).

    Unless they block all 'freemail' access (which *is* possible), you should be able to get a post/email through.

    But then, is it worth it? If they are so afraid of your 'free speech', what does that say about them?

    IMO though, it would just be waste of your time and bits.

    Screw 'em. They aren't interested in facts.

  • 31. RebeccaRGB  |  August 27, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    If you're on Windows and have the modem connected directly to the computer, you can just open the command prompt and type this:

    ipconfig /release
    ipconfig /renew

    and you should get a new IP address.

  • 32. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:07 am

    There is also software that hides your IP address behind a regularly-changing fake one.

  • 33. AndrewPDX  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:33 am

    I got a better one… Should NOM's homophobia be imposed on top of the Constitution?

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 34. Alan E.  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:47 am

    But they love us so much!


  • 35. Sagesse  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:58 am

    The Summer of Marriage Tour is now consigned to the archives, filed under Louis Marinelli's Summer Vacation.

    Now they're on to the November elections.

  • 36. Bolt  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:00 am

    It's a bit entertaining to watch the anti-gay klan in their state of desperation. They failed to attract anything significant to their gay obsessed rallies, and they'll continue to fail to scare people.

    They're losing, bit time, and they know it.

  • 37. carpoolcookie  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:02 am

    I like the surging "disaster film" background music. And the shot of the devastated-looking woman praying with her face in her hands.


  • 38. draNgNon  |  August 27, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    you missed the diamond-studded engagement or wedding ring.

  • 39. AndrewPDX  |  August 27, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Heh… wedding rings… whoever says that "domestic partnership is the same as marriage"… ask them what a "dp ring" signifies.

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 40. JonT  |  August 27, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    @Andrew: 'ask them what a “dp ring” signifies.

    Ahh, late-night P8TT reading. Thanks, that was funny 🙂

    I've never seen the DP or CU rings in a jewelry store. Must be in the 'back', you know, sorta like the porno films used to be in the 'back' of the video rental place.

    Back when there were video rental places 🙂

  • 41. Carpool Cookie  |  August 27, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Are you allowed to wear it on the same finger, since it's not a wedding band? Will they have their own private police force out, checking on this?

  • 42. Vaati  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Somebody should lock them up for such idiotic backwards slander and for their spiritual fraud. These people don't care about their supporter's spirituality, they are wicked, evil entities who are most joyous when they are hurting people or taking away our hope.

    They can only fool people who are already used to following blindly, unfortunately many religious people fall under this category. Not all people who follow religion are bad or unthinking, but any member of the Mormon or Catholic church who gave or is giving money to NOM or to Prop 8 has helped to fund this ad and is no friend to us. We are still fighting people who are hiding behind religion.

  • 43. Linda  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Recalling doctrine from a former life here–but doesn't the Bible make reference to 'the Father of Lies'…?

  • 44. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Yes, Rabbi Yoshua ben Yosef himself told people that they were of their father the devil who was a liar and the father of lies. I believe that he told the Pharisees that.

  • 45. Felyx  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    If we are going to throw around biblical passages, I want to remind everyone that Jesus recognized gay men. Matthew 19:19. Some men are born eunuchs from the womb.

    This is about as close to saying being gay is an immutable trait as you can get! (Remember, in order to be legally recognized as being of African decent or any other ethnicity in the US, one has to CHOOSE to check a box on a form. There is no paternity testing, no genetic testing, no skin color chart testing, in fact there is no testing of any kind whatsoever for the US Federal Government in order to claim a certain ethnic heritage. Stuff that up your bum REICHers!)

    I just want to say, Christians deserve education too! – Felyx

  • 46. RebeccaRGB  |  August 27, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    Matthew 19:12, not 19:19.

    How about Galatians 3:28?

    "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

    I want to make a sign saying GOD LOVES GAYS with these passages on it and go walking around with it. Anyone with me?

  • 47. Felyx  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    Thank you Rebecca. I mixed up my numbers (a bit dyslexic here). Thanks for the correction.

    The Bible really can be used for good and not evil! – Felyx

  • 48. Sagesse  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:50 pm


    "The Bible really can be used for good and not evil!"

    Such a novel concept: :)! Do you think it will catch on?

  • 49. Taelyn  |  August 28, 2010 at 7:08 am

    Ah, but it was also written (I don't remember where, but I think Mark somewhere – I'm a Satanist, sue me) that "The Devil may cite scripture for his own purposes."

    Sorry to play his advocate (pun intended), but that's probably their hardline response to that.

  • 50. Linda  |  August 28, 2010 at 8:07 am


    Good point; of course, that could be a circular argument, couldn't it? Whose to say which one of us is speaking for Satan??? 🙂

  • 51. Elizabeth Oakes  |  August 28, 2010 at 11:57 am

    So Linda, this "Father of Lies"….do we know what color suit he wears?

  • 52. Seraphiel  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:11 am

    San Francisco is a beautiful city with lots of friendly people.

    There's good public transit, excellent food, cultural exploration down every street. San Francisco values the contributions of all citizens and believes everyone should be treated equally.

    So yes, yes, a thousand times, yes. Yes, San Francisco values (and indeed any values that line up so perfectly with the spirit the country was built upon) should be imposed on the rest of America. That's what the Constitution is FOR: to defend those values against those who would make us all less equal.

    Anything that makes the bigots wail in faux-martyrdom agony will make America a better place.

    Coming up next: imposing New York values (and the values of that terrifying pointy statue in their harbor!) on the rest of America. Buckle up, rubes.

  • 53. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:23 am

    And in the meantime, Seraphiel, I think that we should also, to borrow a line from Mae West–"Fasten your seat belts. It's gonna be a bumpy ride!"

  • 54. Dpeck  |  August 27, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    I believe you are thinking of Bette Davis in "All About Eve" when she said "Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy night.". A faaaabulous classic film full of great lines like that.

  • 55. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 27, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Dpeck, thank you for correcting me on that one. And you are so right–All About Eve is fabulous, and it is so full of great lines. And then there is Bette Davis!

  • 56. Marlene  |  August 27, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    That's not to say that Mae didn't have great lines of her own…

    "Those who are easily shocked should be shocked more often."
    "Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before."
    "His mother should have thrown him out and kept the stork."
    "I believe in censorship. I made a fortune out of it."
    "I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it."
    "I'll try anything once, twice if I like it, three times to make sure."
    "Marriage is a great institution, but I'm not ready for an institution"

  • 57. Dpeck  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    I just saw Gentlemen Prefer Blondes this afternoon at the Castro Theater. Wow, that movie has a lot of campy witty hilarious dialogue. Marilyn Monroe, trying on a tiara for the first time – "Ooooohhh! I just LOVE finding new places to wear diamonds!" : )

  • 58. anonygrl  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Some of the videos NOM puts out I can watch, albeit with rising anger. This one I gave up on half way through and went and threw up. Literally.

    How can people BE so horrible? How? What did any of us ever DO to deserve such hatred? I am sitting here with tears dripping down my face because they are LYING about us… and others will believe it, and I don't want to hate anyone, it is not what I was brought up to do, but they seem to want to FORCE me to hate them!

    Most days I think I am fairly reasonable, even when I am riled up, but listening to this crap I just want to give up trying and go hide somewhere and hope that no one knows who I am.

    And then I realize… this is exactly what they want me to do. Half of this ad is aimed at scaring people who don't know any better into thinking that homosexuals are out to RAPE them all (and I do not mean that as a metaphor, it is the absolute truth), and the other half of it is aimed at ME to make me feel like there is no hope of EVER overcoming the prejudice and hate, so why bother even trying any more?

    And THAT I can hate. I hate it for how it makes ME feel… and I hate it more for how it must make others in our community who are likely more fragile than I am feel. Because to tell the truth, I have self esteem to spare. I know who I am, I am strong and smart and funny and good and a big pain in the ass sometimes, and clever and irritating and charming and WORTHY OF LOVE DAMN IT and you a**holes cannot take that away from me, no matter how hard you try!

    And so are we ALL.

    So to hell with you and your lies, NOM. To hell with your petty, stupid, prejudiced HATEFUL lies. From time to time I find myself trying to defend you as not being bigots, as simply being people with different beliefs to which you are entitled… but no. You are bigots, there is no two ways around it. You are bigots, you are liars, and you are not deserving of any respect at all. You should be, but probably are not, ashamed of yourselves. You have violated everything you profess to stand for, and there is not ONE OUNCE of Christianity in what you do.

    You don't know the meaning of the word love, and anyone who doesn't know that should not be considered a member of the human race.

  • 59. anonygrl  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:18 am

    sorry for the rant

  • 60. Vaati  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:29 am

    You should not be the one apologizing, if anything when this is all said and done they should be the ones apologizing to us. Your rant is straight on and they deserve your anger, because they are trying to make it hopeless and desperate for us. It's not fair and it's not right. Don't let them take your hope away or snuff out your light.

    We are here to light up the world with courage and equality and ultimately they will fail in their attempts to throw us back into the dark ages, the tide is shifting and time is on our side, not theirs. Hence their fearful lies about running out of time. Marriage isn't going anywhere, being able to publicly bash gay people is quickly becoming unacceptable.

  • 61. nightshayde  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:32 am

    There's no reason to apologize, anonygrl.


    (that's a big hug, by the way)

    This straight gal loves you even though I've never met you. I really wish the bad guys' hatred only affected them, but we all know that's not the case. Please know, though, that they are in the minority (even if they're an obnoxiously vocal, strident minority).

    We all deserve to feel comfortable in our own skins, and we all deserve the right to love our soul-mates, no matter what shape anyone's naughty bits are.

  • 62. BradK  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:37 am

    No need to apologize anonygrl! You only expressed what most of us feel. Tear not, Fear not. While NOM's tactics may be despicable, they are but a gasp of exasperation — the beginnings of the final death rattle of a dying mindset.

    That they are resorting to personal attacks on Judge Walker only belies the utter lack of substance behind their position. And as the Summer Of Fail tour demonstrated, people are beginning to catch onto the truth behind the lies.

  • 63. BradK  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Forgot to add:

    NOM has seen the writing on the wall and it most assuredly does NOT say, "One Man, One Woman"

  • 64. Kathleen  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:59 am

    NOTHING to apologize for. I add my big hugs. Don't let the bastards get you down. (no offense to bastards – I'm one myself).

  • 65. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    No apology needed. I agree with everyone else here. The ones who need to apologize are NOM, President Momson, and Pope Benedict.

  • 66. Felyx  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    No need for apology Anonygrl! So often you say what I want to say but just can't! Thank you. – Felyx

  • 67. Sheryl, Mormon Mothe  |  August 27, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    A s others said, no reason to apologize.

    And I just had a thought, NOM does have it right: 1 man, 1 woman, they just conveniently forget to add "married to the 1 man or 1 woman of choice." SEE, they just don't know they are for equality.

    If I hear one of those ridiculous ads, I'll be letting the station know that I'll be boycotting and will spread the word.

    Sheryl, Mormon Mother

  • 68. Marlene  |  August 27, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Add my two strong arms to the group hug, and you can lean on my shoulders anytime, luv!

    Today's the anniversary of the 1962 March on Washington and the famous "I Have a Dream" speech by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    That anniversary's being sullies and defamed by an egotistical, raving lunatic with delusions of grandeur.

    One of those speaking today is Alveda King, who said that since *she* had Martin's DNA, *she's* better than her aunt! If *I* was in that family, and prone to violence, I'd slap her right in the face for her arrogance and her defamation of their matriarch.

    *WE* are the ones who hare the rightful heirs to Dr. King's legacy!! If it were not for the tireless efforts of a black GAY MAN by the name of Bayard Rustin, neither the march nor Dr. King's speech would've happened!

    No apologies, Anonygirl! Hold your head high and show these slugs that you can throw all the mud and offal and feces at us. We'll endure it with so much dignity and grace the entire *word* will see these bigots for who they are!!!

  • 69. Ann S.  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Anonygirl, you don't need to apologize. You need a hug. Here:


    We all love you. The NOMbies are having their last gasp, and are desperate.

    Imagine what Will Phillips would say. He and his generation will take over and change the world. That day is coming, and soon.

  • 70. Linda  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Don't apologize! I felt broadsided by this, too. It's unfathomable that they can lie so freely. They have no concept of right or wrong; apparently they have no qualms lying to their own followers. It is despicable.

  • 71. anonygrl  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Thanks everyone. I DID need hugs, and I thank you for them.

  • 72. Santa Barbara Mom  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    No apologies needed, Anonygirl. I can't bring myself to even listen to any of these videos, knowing that they would bring great anger and frustration to me. I don't know how anyone can be so awful, especially in the name of God. They are disgusting. And it's sad that they are so ignorant that they can't even see their hate. My peace comes in knowing that one day they will have to come face to face with their creator.

  • 73. Elizabeth Oakes  |  August 28, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    For what it's worth, anonygrl: I have a friend who worked with Terry Roberts, one of the original "Little Rock Nine" (the first black students who went to Central High School in Arkansas and had to be escorted by National Guardsmen for their own safety?) He said that when people called him "N****r" (or worse) he would remember that those words said more about THEM than it did about HIM. He knew who he was–they didn't.

    So just remember next time these mean-ass NOM bullies make you cry…their words and their sentiments tell us more about them than they do about you. They have no clue what they're really saying…..about themselves.

  • 74. Ann S.  |  August 28, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Elizabeth, those are wise words, indeed.

  • 75. Dave in CA  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:59 am

    @anonygrl: "How can people BE so horrible? How?"

    One word: Money. There's a lot of it to be made by selling fear.

  • 76. Sagesse  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Cheer up everyone. What people like Ken Mehlman and Ted Olson have done is kick the support out of one of their best arguments. "it's not about civil rights, it's about re-defining marriage for all of us."

    Well guess what. Two respected conservatives have said marriage is a civil right… it is constitutionally protected. It scares the crap out of them.

  • 77. Linda  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:33 am

    I still find it humorous though that we are 'imposing' same sex marriage on the rest of the country. Can't you just see us, shot guns at the ready, marching male couples and female couples down to the court houses? Forcing them to say their vows…..and kiss?!?! Ha!

  • 78. JonT  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:53 am

    'I still find it humorous though that we are ‘imposing’ same sex marriage on the rest of the country.'

    Yes – that's a common theme.

    Obviously that isn't what we are doing, but hey, if you can make people believe you are trying to force them to do something, or taking away their rights, it's much easier to get them to open up their pocketbooks and head to the voting booth.

    These people are just disgusting. But they do know their messaging and marketing. And their followers, who are quite content to let other people do their thinking for them, are a willing audience.

  • 79. Jonathan H  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Innocent Straight Boy: "But I don't wanna get gay married!"
    Jack-Booted Queen: "Come on, march down to that courthouse!"
    ISB: "But I'm straight, really I am! I'd be miserable!"
    JBQ: "You'll learn to love it, everyone else has!"
    ISB: "But I really- Wait, were you able to get John Barrowman?"
    JBQ: "He's in a committed relationship, and totally out of your league."
    ISB: "But I don't wanna get gay married!"

    (I didn't think this gag was worth posting until I thought of the phrase "Jack-Booted Queen", then I knew I'd never forgive myself if I didn't inflict that on the world)

  • 80. Josiah  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Brilliant! Extra points for the Barrowman ref.

  • 81. ElsieH  |  August 27, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Ooh, another John Barrowman fan. Psst if you email me I can get you copies of Tonight's The Night series one and two. <3

  • 82. JonT  |  August 27, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    LOL! That was great man.

    Jack-Booted Queens. That could be a new Internet meme! 🙂

  • 83. Michelle Evans  |  August 27, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    I love Barrowman. He's about the first guy I've ever seen that made me stop and think what it mighty be like to be hetero. 🙂 But then he's gay (actually bi, I believe), so I wouldn't stand much of a chance anyway. Can't wait for more Torchwood.

  • 84. anonygrl  |  August 27, 2010 at 5:31 pm


    He himself is gay. The character he plays on Torchwood is bi.

    But I will admit, he IS fabulous! And watching him kiss James Marsters was pretty hot.

  • 85. Marlene  |  August 27, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    As long as those boots have stiletto heels…. 😉

  • 86. Phil L  |  August 27, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Wait… that's NOT what we're supposed to be doing?

    *Hides shotgun behind his back*



  • 87. Josiah  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:33 am

    It probably goes without saying that the ad makes it sound like the decision said that marriage between a man and a woman is unconstitutional, as opposed to saying that *limiting* marriage to a man and a woman is unconstitutional. It's a pretty key distinction, which NOM is key to blur at every opportunity.

  • 88. carpoolcookie  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:45 am

    All the legal briefs and arguments are phrased with this tone, too….it's really strange. Maybe their next ad with show straight couples being ripped from each other's arms??

  • 89. Vaati  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    You're probably right that their next step is to show straight couples being pulled away from each other, and if they do we can show the REAL FOOTAGE of a gay couple being pulled away from each other and beaten by a group of men outside a Mormon complex, just because one man kissed his partner's cheek.

    Or how about the woman in Florida who was denied seeing her partner while she was dying, or the elderly couple in California who were sent to different old homes, had all of their things taken from them, and died separately.

    We have actual examples of suffering attached to their bigotry, all they have left are lies and soon they will be forced into the light where their fraudulent claims can be seen for what they really are.

  • 90. Trish  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    In Hawaii, they actually did have ads that essentially showed a man being ripped from the arms of a woman. It started out showing the man and woman running toward one another, the man wearing a tux and the woman wearing a traditional wedding dress, but the man runs right past the woman and into the arms of another man.

    I can't believe these people are so stupid to think that someone is going to lose out on a husband because now that man can marry another man. Honey, if your man is into other men more than he is into you, you wouldn't have had a happy marriage anyway.

  • 91. Dave in CA  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    So where is this being aired? And when? And for what audience? Is there a counter ad campaign in the making?

  • 92. Leo  |  August 27, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    <cite>The judge claims as so-called fact that children don't need a mom and a dad and that parental gender and irrelevant to child development.</cite>
    Yeah, he does — because that's what the evidence before him showed. The implied objection is an argument from incredulity.

    <cite>He says that men and women have exactly the same roles in a marriage.</cite>
    And if we let it go, he might next say that Washington is the capital of the US! (The only sense in which he said that was with respect to law, and that can be easily verified by looking at the marriage laws.)

  • 93. Sheryl, Mormon Mothe  |  August 28, 2010 at 5:23 am

    And once again they slap all single parents by implying that they cannot do a good job raising their child/children because there is not a parent of the other gender in the home. I was a single mother from the time my son was 6 until he was out of high school. I had single mother friends. Our kids are doing fine. And, believe me, for each of us, the kids were much better off without the opposite gender parent in the home.

    As for the roles in marriage, people (women especially) have the opportunity choose what their role in the marriage will be. So much better than the traditional marriage that "protects a woman" by keeping her in the home (that phrase "barefoot and pregnant" comes to mind).

    I'm very happy that women are now able to decide to have a career or be stay at home moms. Think my mom would have been so much happier if that had been an option for her; however, my dad did not want his wife working (even though they really could have used the income).

    Sheryl, Mormon Mother

  • 94. Kate  |  August 27, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Well, that is certainly going to make them popular in Judge Walker's court.

  • 95. draNgNon  |  August 27, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Roger Ebert on gay marriage

  • 96. Straight Grandmother  |  August 27, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Checking P8TT quick this morning before i have to get work done. I will check back in later. Was thrilled to see the Peter Paul & Mary letter get so much attention. Of course with that "upper" topic all of us groovin together in peace and love, then the next thing I read is this drivel from NOM. I'll get back to this.

  • 97. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:14 am

    Yeah….. it definitely was a breath of fresh air for a while, one that we all needed. My hope is that it will draw Peter and Paul out into public, actively fighting for our rights in the media.

  • 98. Linda  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:25 am

    Drivel; precisely. But won't this look bad for them when it's presented as evidence against them in yet another court case? I mean, come on! Don't they give any thought to the ramifications of blatant lies? Geez!

  • 99. Michael  |  August 27, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    San Francisco is a beautiful, wonderful, tolerant, diverse city where people get along and live in peace. This is a value we can all be proud of. However, those who seek to redefine "values" want to make homophobia, exclusion, unequal treatment under the law, bigotry, and reviling into the "new American values." May they fail miserably just like their Hate Tour failed miserably. And may their true goal of imposing their "religious beliefs" on everyone else be revealed to all.

  • 100. Apricot  |  August 27, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    The great thing about ignorance is that once it's gone, it doesn't come back. That's why NOM is afraid that time is running out for them. Their entire strategy is built on the implication that gay people are somehow removing the opportunity of marriage from straight couples.

    It's pretty bad when simply knowing what the issue is throws your argument out the water.

    P.P.S – I love that jab they threw at Sanfran though – "San Francisco is . . . unique" – That's what you'd say to someone if you wanted to insult them without insulting them.

  • 101. Sagesse  |  August 28, 2010 at 12:06 am

    You know how sometimes you need to 'feed an [idea] [problem] to your subconscious and let it work"? From the first time is watched this ad, I've thought it may rebound on them.

    A lot of people like San Francisco, even if not for its open and liberal culture. Insulting SF in the first sentence may not make listeners sympathetic to your message… even when the second sentence is about a 'gay judge'.

    Still, if it's only going to run on Christian(ist), right wing radio stations, maybe it doesn't matter.

    And, stupid question of the day – if it's a radio ad, why does it have video… are they going to run it on TV as well?

  • 102. MJFargo  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:19 am

    Well. Here's a little story. I'm from Texas, although I've not lived there for most of my life, but I do visit my family from time to time. In Houston, my Mom asked me to take some jewelry to have it cleaned and to also say "Hello" to all the nice people who worked there. Walking into the shop, I was greeted warmly, and as the ticket was being written, the woman casually asked me where I was from. Not even thinking, I said, "I live in San Francisco" and the ice that fell across the room was palpable. The pleasant chatter ceased, and I was all but asked to leave the store. So, don't think that NOM doesn't know which buttons they're pushing and why.

  • 103. Sagesse  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:30 am


    You're right. The more I think about it, this ad is not like the election ads they're running in, say, Minnesota, where the ad runs on mainstream media (although perhaps only in targeted markets). This one is destined straight for their base. Reasonable minds won't get anywhere near it.

  • 104. AndrewPDX  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:03 am

    Everytime I'm called "… unique", I say "Thank you!"

    To be considered crazy, strange, weird, or unique is a compliment. It means you are not boring, average, run-of-the-mill, or forgettable.

    Thanks, NOM, for complimenting San Francisco for being on the front lines of the fight for Equality!

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 105. MJFargo  |  August 27, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    I hope any/all of the judges from the 9th Circuit get the opportunity to hear/see this one.

  • 106. Dave in CA  |  August 28, 2010 at 12:01 am

    It shouldn't be all that hard to point it out to them.

    Wherever this shows up, I hope someone somewhere puts out a pro-equality ad. And one that does not try to engage in a point by point response with them. And no mamby-pamby feel-good, bleeding heart stuff. Hit back with conservative values.

    What I'd rather see and hear is an appeal to listeners' logic and patriotism. It would go something like this:

    "The Netherlands… Belgium… Spain… South Africa… Canada… Argentina… Mexico… What do all these countries have in common that the United States does not? Freedom. Freedom to marry the person you choose, under those countries laws and constitutions. So why is America falling behind on Freedom? Why do we no longer set the example of Freedom for the rest of the world?

    It's because a few groups are trying to scare you into thinking their religion and values are the only ones.

    Is that what America is becoming? Weren't we founded on the idea that our religious beliefs were personal and private, and not the place of government? Isn't that why we left the Old World to come here and start the American experiment of liberty for all?

    Freedom – it's the American Way. Freedom To Marry. To Pursue Happiness. To Choose the One you Love. Think about it."

    * * * * *

    And I'd run that every place that NOM is running their fear-mongering.

  • 107. MJFargo  |  August 28, 2010 at 12:56 am

    What's most irksome in all of it: The distortion that a "gay judge" somehow out of the purple haze of San Francisco penned a ruling that has no basis in fact, that it was evidence presented to him at a fair trial, where the proponents of Prop 8 raised these issues and offered no proof for their arguments, leaving the judge with little choice than to rule the way he did. The fact that I think it was the right, moral decision is how I feel personally. But if you read the transcript or follow the trial, Judge Walker bent over backwards to get the defendants to offer something…anything. Their posture "our position is self-evident and we don't need to offer evidence" wasn't convincing and that's what American needs to hear.

  • 108. Straight Grandmother  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:01 am

    Dave, I LOVE your ad, love it. BUT the reason why people did not vote Pro Equality last time was because was successful in scaring people that this would harm thier children. If we ever want to win politically we must, must, must make this the first and foremost issue. We can't ignore this because we find it so distasteful, this blantant false slam.

  • 109. Deabee  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:13 am

    Love it.

    This is where the Log Cabin Republicans and GOProud would be of great help. If they were to make an ad like that, also saying how the gay marriage bans is just big government intruding on people's lives, which goes against conservative principles (or something like that), it could actually be accepted for airing during conservative talk-radio shows.

  • 110. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:17 am

    South Africa, for cris'sake!!!! And this country finds no chagrin in being behind South Africa in the field of human rights????

  • 111. Dave in CA  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:48 am

    @Straight Grandmother: I agree completely that they used children to scare people into voting for discrimination. I just don't know how to address that one in a :30 sec ad. But I agree, that is their first scare tactic.

    Anyone have any short, clear ways to counter it in 25 words or less?

  • 112. Bob  |  August 28, 2010 at 3:23 am

    @Dave in Ca, that's a great ad, stikes right to the heart of the matter, how can we get that on air.

    Which leads to the next problem, we each have our own radio stations, right wing and left, and those camps only listen to themsleves.

    In Canada there is a petition going around to try and ban Fox News from getting their own station, cause they carry only right wing propoganda. (Sagesse, have you heard anything about this)

    It seems funny to have radio ad wars, that only are heard by your own side,

  • 113. Sagesse  |  August 28, 2010 at 3:50 am


    The application for what is being termed Fox News North was rejected last month, as there is not a slot on basic cable until 2011. However, stay tuned. Evidently Prime Minister Harper is maneuvering to push aside the chairman of the licensing body, the CRTC in order to clear the path.

    I don't think we in Canada have the noxious right wing radio stations (think Rush Limbaugh, or Lou Dobbs) that there are in the US, and certainly not religiously based ones.

  • 114. Dave in CA  |  August 28, 2010 at 4:13 am

    And to Straight Grandmother's point about the children, I would do this:

    "…It’s because a few groups are trying to scare you into thinking their religion and values are the only ones that matter. They even go so far as to make up lies about imaginary and untrue harms to children."

    Or something along those lines.

  • 115. Straight Grandmother  |  August 28, 2010 at 8:54 am

    @ Dave in CA, I have an idea and maybe it is a good one or maybe not. See what you think. "We contacted the 489 (however many there are) school districts in California. Every School Superintendent said that they are not going to teach about same sex marriage in their school. Don't beleive us, call your schoold district. is simply using scare tacticts to get you to vote against what you know in your heart is fair. Don't beleive thier lies, do what is right."

    Another commercial
    Get esteemed doctor after esteemed doctor to say,

    "Gays and Lesbians have been accused of being a threat to your children. I am here to tell you the truth, I am doctor blah blah blah, head of Psychiatry from Stanford University, and I want you to know that the gretest risk to your children being sexually assaulted is from a hetrosexual family member. Gays and Lesbians are no different than you and seek out adults to love and be close to. They do not assault children more than hetrosexuals. Don't let get away with telling you lies, to get you to vote against what you know in your heart is fair. Don't beleive their lies, do what is right."

  • 116. Dpeck  |  August 28, 2010 at 10:59 am

    If you want to counter the lies about marriage equality somehow harming children, point out that there are thousands of children who are already being harmed because their parents DO NOT have marriage equality. These children can't get covered by their parent's health insurance. These children may be dying in the hospital and may be prevented from seeing both of their parents because their parents don't have marraige equality. If one parent dies, these children's family may be ripped apart by the state and the children can be taken from their only remaining parent and placed into the foster care system because their parents didn't have marriage equality. THAT is what how children are being harmed RIGHT NOW because of marriage discrimination. THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

  • 117. Ann S.  |  August 28, 2010 at 11:01 am

    Dpeck, although I agree that this is an issue, you gotta be a bit careful with that one. Some of them think LGBT people should not adopt, and I've heard some seriously say that no child should be in a home with an LGBT person (even their own parent).

  • 118. anonygrl  |  August 28, 2010 at 11:09 am

    From NOM's site… in a piece they sent out to churches, entitled "Why Marriage Matters"…

    A loving and compassionate society comes to the aid of motherless and fatherless children, but no compassionate society intentionally deprives children of their own mom or dad. But this is what every same-sex home does — and for no other reason but to satisfy adult desire.

    So, same-sex households are intentionally depriving children of parents… in favor of what, now, NOM?

  • 119. Dpeck  |  August 28, 2010 at 11:17 am

    Then maybe it should be pointed out that many of these children are not adopted. They are the biological children of one of the parents. This is especially common in families with two lesbian moms.

    Or it could be pointed out that the idea of letting a kid rot in the foster care system and end up homeless at the age of 18 rather than letting the child be adopted by a loving same-sex couple (or a single parent) and raised in a healthy happy home is cruel and hateful and (again) it harms these children. Think of the children.

  • 120. Kathleen  |  August 28, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Didn't you know? If ss couples are allowed to marry, children will be ripped away from their biological parents and given to all the gay couples.

  • 121. Ronnie  |  August 28, 2010 at 11:20 am

    facepalms…. : I …..Ronnie

  • 122. Bob  |  August 28, 2010 at 4:07 am

    @Sagesse, thanks I new you would have read and signed the petition from but what I can't believe is that Harper is trying to pave the way, to make room for such Radio Stations to begin with, we need to be ever vigilant, the religious right in Canada, wants to be vocal just like their U.S. counterparts.

    I read from my families churches website from time to time, and they have full coverage of the prop8 case, and warn of the gathering sorm.

    If all of us countries that have freedom, got involved and fought it where it is , we may prevent it's resurgence in our own lives.

    Beleive me all the right wing churches from our countries are fuelling the flames in the U.S.

  • 123. PamC  |  August 28, 2010 at 12:06 am

    "Power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice. Justice at its best is love correcting everything that stands against love."

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  • 124. PhillyKarl  |  August 28, 2010 at 12:24 am

    They really should have named themselves the National Organization for Making heterosexuals afraid of the LGBT community. With every word out of their mouths their agenda becomes clearer and clearer. This fight was NEVER about marriage. NEVER. They simply see the LGBT community as a perversion of nature, and a threat against all that is Godly. And while NOM supporters say this frequently and with considerable venom, their leadership knows that this approach is destined to loose in the courts. That's why they will seek out any non religious difference between heterosexual couples and LGBT couples, and then claim that the fight is about that, and that the fight has ALWAYS been about that. I think that Marriage Equity supporters do ourselves a disservice when we fail to address this TRUTH at every opportunity. We can't continue to let them frame this argument in terms of protecting marriage. Because its not. AND NEVER HAS BEEN!!

  • 125. Straight Grandmother  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:03 am

    PhillyKarl-True very very true.
    And the latest installment of our Alaskan Fame Whore;…

    To bad nobody Flashmobed that dog and pony show in PA.

  • 126. AndrewPDX  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:05 am

    <cite>Today’s the anniversary of the 1962 March on Washington and the famous “I Have a Dream” speech by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.</cite>

    Drat… you had to go and beat me to the punch… blasted need for sleep 🙁

  • 127. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Back in the civil rights days, we called people like Velveeta King "oreos" — you know, black on the outside and white on the inside. These were the folks who benefited from their associations with the white majority instead of standing for the rights of all people. How much do you think Oreo King is being paid to flaunt her last name around each of these bigoted gatherings?

  • 128. Straight Grandmother  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:26 am

    Kate I totally forgot about that phrase, Oreos. Yeah I agree Velveeta King qualifies.

  • 129. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:34 am

    Does anyone know if MLK's children are speaking out against what Velveeta is doing?

  • 130. Ronnie  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:39 am

    "Velveeta King"……ROFL…..<3…Ronnie

  • 131. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:44 am

    I wish I could take credit for it, Ronnie, but I can't. And I'm sad to admit I've forgotten the OP's name. Will the OP of "Velveeta King" please sign in here and accept our applause again?

  • 132. Freddy  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:07 am

    Not nearly as much as the great MLK would have shelled out to just be at one of these rallies.

  • 133. MJFargo  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:35 am

    From the The Washington Post, Martin Luther King, III said about event today at the Lincoln Memorial:

  • 134. MJFargo  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:36 am

    (sorry, here's the quote from Martin Luther King, III)

    "My father championed free speech. He would be the first to say that those participating in Beck's rally have the right to express their views. But his dream rejected hateful rhetoric and all forms of bigotry or discrimination, whether directed at race, faith, nationality, sexual orientation or political beliefs"

  • 135. Ann S.  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:55 am

    MJFargo, thank you for that quotation from King. So sad that Velveeta is exploiting her name this way.

  • 136. Ray in MA  |  August 28, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    I didn't think I would be coining a name (Velveeta!) LOL!

    I'm still chuckling about everyone's amusement!

    Kate was even more amusing when she reploed, "Yes she isn't even cheese! … Not even the BIG Cheese!)

    ROFL! Again!

    When you hear this song… change the words to:

    "Don't cry for me poor Velveeta!"

  • 137. Straight Grandmother  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:24 am

    I transposed the commercial into text so we can respond-

    1- (woman) San Francisco is unique, but should their values be imposed on the rest of America?

    2- (man) A gay San Francisco Federal Judge has ruled that marriage between one man and one woman is discriminatory and unconstitutional.

    3-(man) His ruling could eventually impose gay marriage on every state in America.

    4-(woman) This ruling is crazy and scary, the judge claims his so called fact that children don’t need a mom and a dad and that parental gender is irrelevant to child development.

    5-(man) He says that men and women have exactly the same roles in a marriage.

    6-(woman) He actually ruled that marriage as the union of a man and a woman is just an artifact of a time that’s passed and he slams people of faith by saying religious beliefs harms gays and lesbians.

    7-(man) America doesn’t have to accept San Francisco’s values, join the National Organization for Marriage at Two Million For Marriage dot com to preserve marriage as the union of one man and one union. Time is short to save traditional marriage, join us at Two Million For Marriage dot com.

    8-(woman) Paid for by the National Organization For Marriage.

  • 138. Straight Grandmother  |  August 28, 2010 at 4:35 am

    2- (man) A gay San Francisco Federal Judge has ruled that marriage between one man and one woman is discriminatory and unconstitutional. ….Noooooo actually a marriage between one man and one woman is constituitional. What is unconstituitional is denying marriage to same gender couples. Flat out lie here.

    3-(man) His ruling could eventually impose gay marriage on every state in America…..Yeah! Yippie! I sure as hell hope so.

    4-(woman) This ruling is crazy and scary, the judge claims his so called fact that children don’t need a mom and a dad and that parental gender is irrelevant to child development…. Cue the Halloween music, ouhhh this is soooo scary. They never miss a chance to utilize the scare tactic. Truth- children raised in same gender homes do just as well, and in some cases better (sorry NOM), than children raised in opposit gender families. Truth look up the 20 year longitudinal study of children conceived with a sperm donor and raised in a home with 2 lesbian mothers. Those blessed children actually out perform and are better adjusted than children raised in a hetrosexual 2 parent home. Hey Hey Good for MY family this is exactly our circumstance the life of my grandchildren. Nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah, hey hey, good-bye, NOM. 🙂 Pesky scientific 20 year studies aren't they NOM ? 🙂 🙂 🙂 Turns out the judge likes hard peer reviewed science more than he likes conjecture.

    5-(man) He says that men and women have exactly the same roles in a marriage….Um nooo the Judge didn't say that. He said that currently marriage is a joining of equals. He said previously there were distinct roles, mommy made babies and daddy went to work. Now roles in a marriage are determined by the two people who are married. No different for OS married couples or Gender Neutral Married couples.

    6-(woman) He actually ruled that marriage as the union of a man and a woman is just an artifact of a time that’s passed and he slams people of faith by saying religious beliefs harms gays and lesbians…. Major obfuscation by using the word artifact. The use of the word artifact implies that this is something of old and no longer true or no longer in practice. In fact, hetrosexual couples continue to marry, so it is not an artifact. And with Gender Neutral Marraige no doubt hetrosexuals will, duh, contiune to get married. The jduge does not "slam" people of faith. Here merely notes that their religion is not a basis for civil law.

    7-(man) America doesn’t have to accept San Francisco’s values, join the National Organization for Marriage at Two Million For Marriage dot com to preserve marriage as the union of one man and one union. Time is short to save traditional marriage, join us at Two Million For Marriage dot com….You got that right NOM, time is short, your are loosing market share daily to your bigoted Discrimintory hetrosexual only agenda. The trend is towards our side, the side of Freedom and personal Liberty and Equality. You are sooooo sooooo stupid, like my dad would say, you are "pig Headed." You just refuse to accept the fact that Hetrosexual Marraige AND Gender Neutral Marriage will both co-exist in society just fine. It is not like there is only so much marraige to go around and if the gays get it there won't be any left for the hetros. There is plenty for all, the tent is large and will accomodate everyone.

  • 139. Kathleen  |  August 28, 2010 at 5:07 am

    Walker does use the word "artifact" in his decision. However, he never claims that marriages between men and women are an artifact of a previous time; it is the exclusion of same sex couples that is the artifact:

    pg 115: "The evidence did not show any historical purpose for excluding same-sex couples from marriage, as states have never required spouses to have an ability or willingness to procreate in order to marry. FF 21. Rather, the exclusion exists as an artifact of a time when the genders were seen as having distinct roles in society and in marriage." (emphasis added)

    pg 126: "Proposition 8 thus enshrines in the California Constitution a gender restriction that the evidence shows to be nothing more than an artifact of a foregone notion that men and women fulfill different roles in civic life." (emphasis added)

    He uses the word one other time in referencing Chauncey's testimony (pg 23), "This understanding [that gays and lesbians are dangerous to children], Chauncey observed, is an artifact of the discrimination gays and lesbians faced in the United States in the twentieth century."

    As an aside, a couple of minor corrections to the transcription of the ad:
    # 4-"This ruling is crazy and scary, the judge claims his as so called fact…"

    #6-"He actually ruled that … by saying religious beliefs harms gays and lesbians."

    (hoping all my formatting shows up correctly)

  • 140. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:41 am

    Kathleen et al: I want to work with folks on getting the word out about PP&M to the media, as well as any other copyright infringements that we find. But I don't think it's a good idea to discuss what we're all doing in a public forum that NOMbies certainly read. My throwaway e-mail is: backups96064 at, and I will then respondf from my real e-mail. I admire the way Kathleen and the rest of the group who worked on the PP&M issue managed to pull this off without a public peep! (ooooh ….. that sounds dirty….)

  • 141. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:47 am

    When I first saw the NOM image with the double men/women signs on the Constitution background, I thought it was one of OUR "signs." It looks really positive to me. But they call it "imposed" over the Constitution, and we know it's really "recognized" in the Constitution. We should exploit their graphic against them.

  • 142. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 1:56 am

    Check out this great image someone posted on the PP&M facebook page. It says it all.

  • 143. Straight Grandmother  |  August 28, 2010 at 4:07 am

    Kate that is an awsome pic

  • 144. Ann S.  |  August 28, 2010 at 4:12 am

    It is an awesome pic. The link is broken so I made a tiny URL for it:

  • 145. Sheryl Carver  |  August 28, 2010 at 8:00 am

    Awesome indeed!

  • 146. Alyson  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:44 am

    I have been obsessed lately with why donations to NOM would ever bectax deductable. This article explains a little more.

    but the last paragraph is significant. (and may explain part of their fake bus tour). They can give to political things but it must only be a part of what they do. Seems to me it is 100% of what they do. They must bevusingbthrir non profit collected money for their PAC. They may just not be smart enough to do all the paperwork but I think they are more likely breaking the law on purpose as is their mo. They have to get caught eventually and it looks as though several groups are trying to get them investigated. Does it ultimately take a court to pull tax status?

  • 147. Dave in CA  |  August 28, 2010 at 3:07 am

    1- (woman) San Francisco is unique, but should their values be imposed on the rest of America?

    R: "America is unique: we were the first country in the world to declare that all mankind was created equal and with inalienable rights."

    2- (man) A gay San Francisco Federal Judge has ruled that marriage between one man and one woman is discriminatory and unconstitutional.

    R: "A conservative, Republican appointed judge has ruled that it is unconstitutional to vote away those inalienable rights."

    3-(man) His ruling could eventually impose gay marriage on every state in America.

    R: "His ruling helps ensure that all of us remain free and equal before the law."

    4-(woman) This ruling is crazy and scary, the judge claims his so called fact that children don’t need a mom and a dad and that parental gender is irrelevant to child development.

    R: "This ruling is based on numerous scientific studies that prove that children live in many kinds of different families, and all them deserve to thrive in a loving, supportive environment with protections that belong to all Americans."

    5-(man) He says that men and women have exactly the same roles in a marriage.

    R: "He says marriages create partnerships in marriage and Americans in the 21st Century recognize and live that fact."

    6-(woman) He actually ruled that marriage as the union of a man and a woman is just an artifact of a time that’s passed and he slams people of faith by saying religious beliefs harms gays and lesbians.

    R: "He actually ruled that marriages have evolved to reflect women's equal status in society today, that partners are equals, and that private religious beliefs cannot be used in our system of government to treat citizens unequally – even if we don't like those citizens."

    7-(man) America doesn’t have to accept San Francisco’s values, join the National Organization for Marriage at Two Million For Marriage dot com to preserve marriage as the union of one man and one union. Time is short to save traditional marriage, join us at Two Million For Marriage dot com.

    R: "Americans everywhere embrace the values of freedom, equality, and fair treatment under our laws. It is what makes us who we are as a nation. It is our greatest strength, and we must never back down from it, regardless of the many scare tactics used to make us forget that fact."

    8-(woman) Paid for by the National Organization For Marriage.

    R: "Paid for by… "

    How are those for rebuttal?

  • 148. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 3:19 am

    You nailed it! Can you post this on their You Tube video comments section?

  • 149. Bob  |  August 28, 2010 at 3:34 am

    Just thinking, aren't there laws about truth in advertising, which prohibit false or misleading announcements to sell a product or idea, maybe someone has some legal expertise in the area of advertising.

    this Nom ad is like a play on words, is there any way we could argue that this is false advertising, Even some legal noise about the ad may get people to listen to the sublte differences.

  • 150. Sagesse  |  August 28, 2010 at 4:10 am

    There are laws in product advertising. Otherwise, welcome to the wonders of free speech.

  • 151. Bob  |  August 28, 2010 at 4:27 am

    can marriage be a product?

  • 152. Dave in CA  |  August 28, 2010 at 3:48 am


    Although Youtube seems to post in reverse order: you can only enter 500 characters in each submission box, so my rebuttal works sort of backwards… but I think visitors will get it.

    See what you think!

  • 153. Dave in CA  |  August 28, 2010 at 4:14 am

    And if anyone knows of a way to sort or edit the comments into the proper order once they've been posted… please set me straight. Or at least, correctly forward.

  • 154. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 29, 2010 at 7:29 am

    Section it off in blocks that will fit the slot without separating any sentences, then work from the bottom to the top. If you post it in reverse of how you want it to show in the comments section once it is all posted, it should show up reading properly.

  • 155. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 4:52 am

    Good job, Dave! I think it would be more clear, though, if you added "NOM says in this video:" before each of their statements and "I respond:" to each of yours. That would show at a glance which words are "theirs" and which are "ours."

  • 156. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 5:05 am

    Dave, I'm trying to leave a comment at the YouTube video with a link to the PP&M story here. But it won't let me do it; it says "error, try again." Input?

  • 157. Dave in CA  |  August 28, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    @Kate: Great suggestion; I deleted my earlier posts and did exactly that, and in the correct order! Thanks for the tip!

  • 158. Dave in CA  |  August 28, 2010 at 5:07 am

    Are you using fewer than 500 characters? That's the one rule I saw that I had to work with.

    Does Youtube allow you to include links (I am not a frequent Youtube commenter, so no idea…)

  • 159. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 5:10 am

    Definitely fewer than 500, but I am trying to include a link.

  • 160. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 5:11 am

    I worked a way around it, Dave.

  • 161. Sheryl, Mormon Mothe  |  August 28, 2010 at 6:00 am

    Not in anyway related except that I did a search for NOM and found another definition: New Order Mormons, a support site for those of us who disagree with the LDS church on certain issues (different for everyone) but still remain members. And it appears to be a very large group all over the US (haven't had time to really check it out). This is very exciting for me for 2 reasons: first, always nice to learn one is not alone and, if we remain in the church and start getting more vocal, who knows what change can be brought about.

    Man, the things I learn because I'm a member of this great group.

    Sheryl, Mormon Mother

  • 162. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 6:22 am

    What a perfect opportunity for battling NOM signs!!!!

  • 163. Carpool Cookie  |  August 28, 2010 at 6:43 am

    there is also:

  • 164. Sheryl, Mormon Mothe  |  August 28, 2010 at 8:43 am

    Mormons for Marriage is where I first encountered Fiona. I, unfortunately, found the site toward the end of the Prop 8 campaign. It is a geat site but marriage equality is it's focus. This other site appears to be a support site no matter what the reason is. They have meetings and get togethers. I will be exploring the site more when I get home from work tonight.

  • 165. anonygrl  |  August 28, 2010 at 7:54 am

    I am an idiot and put this over in the wrong thread… it should go here.

  • 166. Alan E.  |  August 28, 2010 at 8:08 am

    Brian, you are a bigoted dinosaur, and your hateful beliefs don't represent true Americans.

  • 167. Jennifer Gail  |  August 28, 2010 at 8:18 am

    That is brilliant!

  • 168. Straight Grandmother  |  August 28, 2010 at 9:02 am

    I have twice tried to watch your video and for me it hangs at the 46 second mark. I tried an hour apart. Perhas it is just me. Whoever is speak they ahve a very professional sounding voice.

  • 169. Kathleen  |  August 28, 2010 at 9:49 am

    The video works fine for me, so likely something at your end. That great voice is anonygrl's.

  • 170. anonygrl  |  August 28, 2010 at 10:46 am

    It is my voice… although I have a little cold, so I sound kind of stuffy to myself. But thanks.

    Did you ever get to the end?

  • 171. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 9:08 am

    Anonygrl, you are GOOD!!!!

  • 172. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 9:35 am

    This is really, truly the first video you've made? Astonishing!

  • 173. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 10:03 am

    I left you a comment at YouTube, but it went on twice so I removed the duplicate. Now I see that my post is flagged as spam! Really, Anonygrl, it's a compliment — not spam.

  • 174. Kate  |  August 28, 2010 at 10:11 am

    That is YOUR voice??? ooooooooh…………

  • 175. Kathleen  |  August 28, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Hot, huh… 🙂

  • 176. Ann S.  |  August 28, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Brian, you are a bigoted dinosaur, and your hateful beliefs don’t represent true Americans.

    Wonderful video!

  • 177. Ann S.  |  August 28, 2010 at 9:20 am

    Anonygirl, you did a brilliant job with this.

    I bow deeply in homage to your mad skillz.

  • 178. anonygrl  |  August 28, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Awww gee. Thanks! 🙂

    It was fun to do, and yes, it was the first one I've ever done. I used iMovie, which made it pretty easy.

    I'm glad you all liked it!

  • 179. Ray in MA  |  August 28, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Excellent work anonygrl ! I'm impressed.

  • 180. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 29, 2010 at 7:46 am

    And if you put it in two threads, that is not idiocy. That is someone helping you to reach twice as many people.

  • 181. Dee  |  August 28, 2010 at 8:01 am

    Just thought i'd post this for those who have never read it. It's kind of old, but points to religious arguments that express why God doesn't have a problem with homosexuals. It actually breaks down each scripture traditionally used to argue against on a religious context and shows the error in translation and interpretation.

    Here goes:

    Although I agree that religious views are immaterial to laws regarding homosexuals (Separation of church and state duh), I still feel it proves as a good way to form rebuttal to religious arguments, as well as a positive influence for those that are Christian and Gay or Ally.

  • 182. Ann S.  |  August 28, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    From DailyKos, observations of a liberal black man who attended Beck-a-palooza:

    I Have A Dream, Myself: I want Alveda King to get a real day job and quit exploiting her last name for personal gain.

  • 183. AndrewPDX  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    <cite>Didn’t you know? If ss couples are allowed to marry, children will be ripped away from their biological parents and given to all the gay couples.</cite>

    EEEEK! I for one don't want any kids; I'm too much of a big kid myself and have enough problems trying to take care of just me: I certainly don't want to have to be responsible for a child!

    Maybe I should donate to NOM so that I can't be forced to have to take care of all 8 of Brian's kids.

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 184. Kathleen  |  August 28, 2010 at 2:35 pm


  • 185. Kate  |  August 29, 2010 at 12:07 am

    Oh no! I may have to find a closet to hide in or go straight to avoid having them dump their kids on me!

  • 186. Alyson  |  August 28, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    You all are coming up with such good succint counter arguments to each of NOMs lies it gave me an idea. Where I live I frequently find little 'preachy shame based try to scare or shame you to suck you in' booklets left by pay phones or on community bulletin boards with some (usually extreme, conservative) religious hogwash. I wonder about printing up something with the pro-equality religious counter arguements to all the clobber passages complete with all bible quotes that support us and leave them 'laying around'. We are always reacting tobrhem – they just grab airwaves and start talking. Even if no one is listening. And they get it said enough times that people start believing them.

  • 187. Sheryl, Mormon Mothe  |  August 28, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    I like your idea, Alyson. You could say the pamphlets were produced by Americans for Equality. Been thinking about that name and I think it would be a good name for a group; however, sometimes there are too many groups trying to accomplish the same thing and the funds get spread way too thin so probably not a good idea to form another group.

    Sheryl, Mormon Mother

  • 188. Dee  |  August 28, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    Amazing Idea!!!

    I posted this a few posts up and it would be perfect for this:

    but if you go to appendix B, it actually quotes each Bible passage traditionally used against us and shows the error in the translation and interpretation traditionally used. It's packed with good info and has a nice long bibliography of references.

  • 189. Dee  |  August 28, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    woops forgot to add that when you do it you should upload it on so that we can all use this in our respective localities.

    this could be a very useful tool!!

    And I love the name "Americans for Equality" Sheryl!

  • 190. Straight Grandmother  |  August 28, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    I think ALL of us will relate to thi video

    [youtube =]

  • 191. NMD Dom.R  |  August 29, 2010 at 4:19 am

    Wow, that was really sweet.

  • 192. Straight Grandmother  |  August 29, 2010 at 9:20 am

    NMD Dom.R- I am glad you liked it. Has it been a while since you ahve posted? You ahve such and unusual Forum name.

  • 193. Joe  |  August 30, 2010 at 2:23 am

    You can tell these people are just very very lonely. Instead of dealing with the real problem with their marriages, their work suggests that gay marriage is the only threat to the institution. It must be really convenient to find a group of people to blame. What's even worse is that they can reach so many people with their twisted truths. The radio ad clearly twists the truth to make it fit their cause. I don't know how these people can claim they are following God's word when they're way less Christian than many gay people I know. These people are just gross.

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