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NOM on “ex-gay” group: Merely “helping gay people lead Christian lives”

NOM Exposed Right-wing

(Cross-posted at Good As You)

By Jeremy Hooper

On second thought, maybe the National Organization For Marriage and its officials no longer care about hiding their “ex-gay” support. Check out this little blip that was just posted to NOM’s blog:

NOMAn earthquake is beginning: If “gay is like black,” then “Christian is like racist.” The early warning signs are now taking place all over the globe. In New Zealand, Exodus Ministries was just stripped of its tax-exempt status, on the grounds that helping gay people lead Christian lives is not a charity

Exodus Ministries stripped of tax-exempt status in New Zealand. [NOM]

As most of you likely know: This New Zealand Exodus program is part of the American-based Exodus International/Exodus Global Alliance, a coalition where the sole focus — THE SOLE FOCUS! — is on changing gays into that scientifically-discredited state known as “ex-gay.” Which is exactly why in New Zealand, the Charities Commission denied charitable status to this group: Because of the staunch rejection that groups like the American Psychological Association have rightly shown towards these unbacked, potentially dangerous programs. Groups don’t get to be recognized as charitable, simply because they say it’s so. And LGBT-themed groups don’t get to say something is factual simply because it fits their “love the sinner, hate the sin” narrative!

Yet here we have NOM spinning this into an attack on Christianity? Standing up for “ex-gayness,” a notion that even a large percentage of marriage equality opponents proudly reject? Risking their reputation and capital (and reliable natural disaster allusions) on advocacy for “pray away the gay” programs?

Wow, you’re really getting sloppy, Maggie!



  • 1. Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:13 am


  • 2. Ann S.  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:15 am


    This looks very familiar, though.

  • 3. Ann S.  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:16 am

    Oh, yeah, saw this in the comments on the last post, I think.

  • 4. AndrewPDX  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:20 am

    UGH… NOM is so demeaning towards those of faith who are inclusive.

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 5. Carpool Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:49 am

    I know! How do the Unitarians, Episcopalians the MCC Church, etc. feel about that blanket statement?

  • 6. fiona64  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:57 am

    Someone told me that MCC wasn't a "real church" because "they let queers be pastors there."

    I wish I were making that up.

    My response was to sing that old Sunday school song at them: "And they will know we are Christians by our love."


  • 7. AndrewPDX  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:12 am

    Well, look at the Trolls who have come here, when we tell them that not all churches believe as they do about their interpretations… those churches are "Fake Christians" according to the Trolls.

    Is it presumption, arrogance, or just hubris for these Trolls to think that they have a monopoly on knowing the mind of an omnipotent, omniscient deity?

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 8. Adam G.  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:20 am

    None, AndrewPDX. It's brainwashing.

  • 9. Josiah  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Speaking as an Episcopalian, I find it horribly offensive.

  • 10. Dpeck  |  August 31, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    The one here in San Francisco sure is real. It has a pipe organ and stained glass windows and everything. Not like those cheesy quanset hut churches in the middle of nowhere with the crappy folding chairs and all the close-minded jerks. Oh yeah, and MCC has a lot of very good people who put their beliefs into action and do a tremendous amount of good for the citizens of the city. The quanset hut churches, again, not so much.

  • 11. Tigger  |  August 31, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    My take is that everything should be defined by the number of statues and stained glass windows.
    Grace Catherdral – In!
    Podunk Baptist – Out!

    Sorry folks this is what I believe and that makes it right so let me know when the President can sign this into law please. Thx.

  • 12. Ķĭŗîļĺę&  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:20 am

    Where is our freedom of religion to lead the lives we want to lead, without Christianity? Where? First Amendment works both ways, guys, not just for straight Christians…

  • 13. elliom  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:22 am

    A little off topic:

    It looks like Box Turtle Bulletin is down with a permissions error. Since I don't know how to let their sys admins know, and I know there's a lot of cross-reading of the blogs, thought I'd drop a note in case somone who sees it can fix the problem.

  • 14. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:19 am

    elliom, thank you. BTW is this your first post? Or has it been a while since you graced us with a comment?

  • 15. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Good good good, glad you posted, nice to have you here.

  • 16. elliom  |  August 31, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Glad to be of service! (and BTW, you're comments have been AWESOME!)

    While I'd LOVE to get more involved, I've never really figured out how (and I'm afraid my hubbie would kill me :> ), so I've been trying to work "behind the scenes" on individuals (mostly my family and friends I like to call "apathetic gays").

    The hubbie may be coming around, though. Recently saw some of what the "other side" is saying, and he was SHOCKED! (Thanks Rob Tishnai for the WONDERFUL vids!)

  • 17. elliom  |  August 31, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Hi SG:

    Mostly a lurker, but occasionally come out of my sell. :>

  • 18. Richard W. Fitch  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Just got a notice on FB from Timothy that they are now aware of the problem but don't know how long before the site is up again.

  • 19. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:55 am

    thanks Richard

  • 20. elliom  |  August 31, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    Much obliged!

  • 21. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:26 am

    Seems to me we could count a whole lot more ex-straight folks in our midst than they could count ex-gay in theirs.

  • 22. Dave P.  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:37 am

    Cool! Can WE get tax exempt status for 'turning people gay'?

  • 23. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Yes! Probably even in New Zealand!

  • 24. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:56 am

    So far, just toaster ovens. But we're working on it.

  • 25. Jen Mussari  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:28 am

    There is no such thing as "ex-gay." Unless, of course, they are counting past lives. Because I'm pretty sure I was a gay American Colonist in the late 1600's. In that case you could probably call me "ex-gay."

  • 26. Carpool Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Maybe we could count reincarnation, too? For instance, Shirley MacLaine might be an Ex-Gay.

  • 27. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:54 am

    Cookie, as usual you are brilliant. This is right up there with NOM counting the potential products of procreation as their supporters.

  • 28. Carpool Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:59 am

    Thank you, Kate. But I prefer to be addressed as either "Coolie" or "Collie".

    Your anticipated attention to this matter is appreciated.

  • 29. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Will do. I prefer "Collie." I would not anticipate objections from herding dogs. The other option could open up the floodgates.

  • 30. Carpool Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:10 am

    I also answer (several times a day) to "Cubicle 3"

  • 31. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:13 am

    But that's not my typo. I'll still with Collie. (And you can think Coolie when you read it.)

  • 32. Carpool Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Oddly, I seem to have no control over how my name appears here, myself!

    I notice today I am Carpool Kathleen, which I switched to Carpool Cookie for ease of identification here.

    How did I become Kathleen again? I thought i was an EX-Kathleen?

  • 33. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:22 am

    I wondered when you'd catch that, Collie. I figured you became ex-Kathleen about the time the italics took over. OH! There's an image for a NOM ad!

  • 34. Carpool Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:27 am

    "I'm a Cookie in Cubicle 3….and I am afraid. Of the Italics."

  • 35. Dave P.  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:40 am

    So if I was also gay in a previous life that makes me an ex-gay gay? A gay re-tread? Gay V2.0?

  • 36. AndrewPDX  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:46 am

    @ Carpoolcookie / Kathleen… I see you have a gravatar icon; you should have a bar across the top of your browser. Go under 'My Account' and 'Edit My Profile' and change the display name 🙂

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 37. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Hmmm…. and if you were gay in a past life, and are gay now, would that make you "re-gay"?

    (images of rastafarians are now dancing in my head.)

    How about if you are straight now, but expect to be gay in an upcoming incarnation? Would you be "pre-gay"?

  • 38. Jen Mussari  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:45 am

    So this means… that if you are straight now, you COULD be ex-gay, pre-gay or BOTH! I'd love to see how NOM would handle this epiphany.

  • 39. Linda  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Isn't that a 'trinity' of identities??

  • 40. Richard W. Fitch  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Both Jim Burroway and Timothy Kincaid are on Facebook. I'll msg and let them know.

  • 41. elliom  |  August 31, 2010 at 2:41 pm


  • 42. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:57 am

    Stupid me. I always thought the opposite of gay/homosexual was straight/heterosexual. Thank you, NOM, for educating me that the opposite of gay/homosexual is really "Christian."

  • 43. Kevin S.  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:00 am

    And they will of course be telling us where, exactly, it is that Jesus said "Thou shalt not be gay…"

    Wait, you mean that never happened?

  • 44. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:19 am

    I'm curious where I fit in on this coin, being bi. Was I smelted down and poured into the middle of it?

  • 45. Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:22 am

    That was what I was wondering about, too.

  • 46. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Perhaps sexuality is neither a coin, nor a line, but more of a scatter chart with points all over the place as people self identify, but the points tend to group up here and there.

    Kind of like PEOPLE do… put them in a room, take a pic from above, and you have the same effect. Bunches here and there, a few solitary souls, and one who is standing outside, afraid to come in…

  • 47. RebeccaRGB  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:08 am

    They'll point to Romans 1:26, completely ignore the historical context as well as all the previous verses, and repeat it until you either believe them or admit defeat.

    I've tried asking them this question once, and that's exactly what they did. They don't care that it's illogical, they don't care that it's irrelevant, they refuse to allow any other interpretation, and yes, they really believe that repeating the same scrap of scripture a hundred times makes their "argument" stronger.

    They make me sick.

  • 48. Joel  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Kate, I think that gay and straight are two sides of the same coin, with the opposite of both being asexuality. Just like love and hate are not opposites; the opposite of both is apathy.

    But I know you were being sarcastic 😉

  • 49. Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Does that put me on the coin's edge?

  • 50. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:20 am

    OOps… my coin reply was above. How odd. Meant to be down here.

  • 51. Joel  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:35 am

    perhaps the coin was a bad analogy, given that it only has two sides and human sexuality has about 15,000. But you get my drift. And yes, to answer your question. Isn't that where we all live, on the edge?

  • 52. Elizabeth Oakes  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:03 am

    I'm starting a betting pool: what will NOM's next natural disaster metaphor for gay marriage be? We've already had "The Gathering Storm" and now, earthquakes–anyone want to take a stab at week of campaign implementation/disaster metaphor?

    Bonus points for a compelling emotional tagline (like the "…and I am AFRAID" meme from the "Gathering Storm" ad.)

    I'll take tornado/end of November (ad blitz just before the Ninth Circuit is about to hear the Prop 8 appeal):

    "A tornado is about to rip apart our homes as we know them… and I am practically incontinent about it."

  • 53. fiona64  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:08 am

    Is this going to be a drinking game? Because I'm gonna be under the table pretty quickly if NOM's history is any indicator …


  • 54. Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:09 am

    A volcanic eruption would complement their imagery of having gay marriage shoved down their throats. 😉

  • 55. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:11 am

    rats — you beat me to it!

  • 56. elliom  |  August 31, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Can't use volcano…Scientologists got to that already :>

  • 57. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:11 am

    Living at the base of Mt. Shasta, I'll take the volcano in the library with the hot lava.

  • 58. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Every day I see that volcano, looming right outside my window …. and I am a-feard …. to be ….. a-fried…

    [cue the ominous rumbling]

  • 59. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:46 am

    ….. and I am pracically incontine….. oh, whoops. hee hee

  • 60. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:14 am

    …And I am afraid da gayz are going to leave for Massachutses and take all of our cheese with them, and then in Wisconsin, we will no longer be cheese heads. We will not be able to go to see our beloved Green Bay Packers any more without our cheese head hats. The Glory Team from Title Town will fade away and it will be because of the gayz… [camera short of tumbleweeds rolling down an empty main street]

  • 61. Paul in Minneapolis  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:20 am

    OK, now I see what you were referring to! Was trying to figure out the Packers connection in your post about the beets! Totally missed this post; not sure how….

    I must have had a very long day, longer than I realized. I think I need to go practice my clarinet for a bit; always helps clear my head.

  • 62. elliom  |  August 31, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    SG, I never realized you were a fellow Midwesterner!

    Myself, transplant to SF bay area (East Bay for you locals), but hail from central MO.

  • 63. Ann S.  |  August 31, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    I used to have a cheese head hat . . .

    Grew up in the Milwaukee suburbs, went to college in St. Louis, moved out here to go to grad school at Berkeley.

  • 64. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    Okay, okay, enough with the cheese talk, please! If this keeps up, I am going to have to run up to Goldsboro and find out when my former manager is going home to Appleton, and ask him to bring me about four or five wheels of cheese on his return! Y'all are making me hungry here! LOL

  • 65. Carpool Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:16 am

    Tsunami might be too hard for them to spell…?

    But I can see the wrecked bodies wriggling on the beach, like grunions, desperately flopping for cover.

  • 66. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:25 am


  • 67. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:17 am

    I finally watched that one of NOM's (I tend not to want to see their crap). It's almost a parody of itself — especially when the co-opt the "rainbow coalition." Don't they have anything original of their own???

  • 68. Elizabeth Oakes  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:33 am

    You guys are hysterical. I bet they steal your ideas.

  • 69. Carpool Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Sue-NOM-eeee…. ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

  • 70. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Why not? They've stolen everything else — even PP&M and our rainbow! Just watch — they'll have our rainbow sno-cones next.

  • 71. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:35 am

    [Camera shot of a thin angular farmer wearing coveralls letting the dry dirt fall through his fingers with a sad look in his eyes] "Sally Mae, it didnt' used to be like this, my pappy and my grandpappy have been growing beets here for 70 years. There was always plenty of water and the rains were regular. But now, because of da gayz, I don't knwo how we will survive. We know how to live on this land, you take a bath once a week on Saturday night so we are clean for Sunday services, but those gayz, so finnicky they are all taking showers every day? And what for? Just so they can smell nice, I heard some of them even take a second shower if they got sweated up, the same day! Two showers!"
    [Shakes his head]

    "All becasue of the gayz, the rains won't come and they ahve sucked up all fo the water out of the ground with their silly showers. We are done Sally Mae, I'm glad my pappy never lived to see this day and all his magnificent beet fields are drier than a match stick, [kicks toe in the dirt, and a small cloud of dirt is shown] all becasue of da gayz. Imperial County will never again be what it once was, Red Beet City USA… It was bad enough before but then when they got the right to marry it wasn't jsut oen gay moving in it was two, and it was that extra gay that did it, jsut one to many people showering when they should be waiting until Saturday night like we all know to do, we should ahve kept them out of Imperial County "

  • 72. Paul in Minneapolis  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:46 am

    Have you ever smelled a sugar beet factory?

    Hubby's from Grand Forks, ND, and although his family hasn't lived there since the flood of '97, I remember many a trip up that way where we'd get a good whiff of that factory.

    You could smell it for miles, especially if you were downwind. The stench was horrendous — even worse than broc coli cooking!

    I'm guessing that beets from Imperial County aren't grown for sugar — sugar beets do best in a cold climate, I'm told — but I feel bad for anyone who has to put up with that sugar beet factory odor!

  • 73. Wolfinlv  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:46 am

    That's actually a very good one. But for emphasis you should cut away to a shot of a bunch of "da gayz" in a pool with a lush green lawn and having fun. Would be FUNNY!

  • 74. AndrewPDX  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:51 am

    Careful… they may use that tactic too… remember during the Haiti Earthquake? I remember somebody copying a post here that said something like:

    <cite>It's teh gayz fault. First, my wife left me two years ago, then my hair started falling out, and I'm now bankrupt, and then there's this earthquake in Haiti… it's all their fault, I know it is.</cite>

    And the original poster wasn't joking; he really believed that teh gayz caused his hair to fall out and all that.

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 75. elliom  |  August 31, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Sad thing is, I've actually heard crap like this from people in the midwest (think Fred Phelps).

  • 76. Paul in Minneapolis  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:38 am

    I'm going for the asteroid impact — aired in late October, just before the election — because "they want to change how I live."

    An die am afraid….

  • 77. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:51 am

    One of the best lines of the topic so far…
    "An die am afraid…." ha ha ha ha ha ha

  • 78. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Hey you are from Minnesota and you didn't even give me an atta boy for my Green Bay Packer entry??? I understand the humor is a bit regional so it would have went over most people's heads but you should have got it. That would be classified as a disaster in Wisconsin 🙂

    I have never been near a beet factory and I dont' even know if they grow beets in Imperial County but i had to pick something so I was thinking of that characher from the tv show The Office, and I remembered he grew beets.

  • 79. Paul in Minneapolis  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Oh, so sorry, SG — I'm a transplant to MN, not a sports fan (except for men's diving, of course), and I never watch TV except for severe weather events.

    Have to admit that every time the Packers play the Vikings, I hope they both lose. Although I will admit that I did used to think that Brett Farve was cute back in his younger days….

  • 80. Joel  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Isn't Green Bay in Wisconsin? I used to fly with the wife of one of the Packers.

  • 81. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:25 am

    @Joel, you Betcha it's in Wisconsin. It is also known as Title Town since we have won so many Championships & Super Bowls.

  • 82. Sheryl, Mormon Mothe  |  September 1, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    totally unrelated, except to show the lack of education people have about other religions, the first time my father took my mother to Nebraska (would have been early 40s). One of dad's relative asked if he could see mom's horns. Bet you didn't know that about us Mormons did you, LOL (although based on the church's influence on Prop 8 you probably do consider Mormons as "devils."


  • 83. AndrewPDX  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:39 am

    <cite>I am practically incontinent about it.</cite>


    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 84. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Put me down for Tsunami sometime in mid November
    "Teh Gayz and their Tidal wave of Evil"

  • 85. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:53 am

    There is a swarm coming. A swarm of lemmings.

    And I am afraid.

    Some people who like lemmings have taken things too far.

    I am a mother who thinks her children are going to want to grow up to be lemmings.

    I am a doctor who was forced to treat a lemming bite against my will.

    I represent a church in New Jersey forced stop shooting lemmings just because they are an endangered species. Now we can only hunt bald eagles and white rhinos.

    This will change our entire way of life. Please stop the swarm now.

    Give lots of money to NOM today.

  • 86. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:58 am

    LOVE IT!!
    The deafening chatter as the untold hoards of lemmings loom ever closer to the poor helpless Nombies

  • 87. AndrewPDX  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:59 am


    Tho, truthfully, the sheeple that follow NOM are more like Lemmings than we are.

    Maybe a swarm of locusts? Or is that too Biblical?

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 88. Dave P.  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:11 am

    YES! A parody video from OUR point of view –

    There is a stampede coming.

    A stampede of mindless sheep.

    BAA! BAA!

    They just mindlessly follow where they are led.

    And they are led by intolerant anti-equality zealots who make no sense.

    And I am annoyed.

  • 89. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:14 am

    I have to admit I don't know what a lemming is, isn't it a fish, i'll ahve to go look it up now.

  • 90. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:43 am

    It is a small furry mammal of the rodent family, sort of like a large fluffy mouse, or a fat chipmunk with a short tail. They are popularly, but incorrectly, thought of as rushing over cliffs into the sea and committing suicide in great numbers because they are addicted to following whoever is in front of them.

    Actually, they do migrate in swarms, when the food supply runs out, and can be sometimes seen rushing over hilltops in what looks like a dash off the cliff into the sea, but in reality, they don't do that. They run in big clumps, not to their deaths, but off to find more food somewhere else. They can swim, and will cross rivers, and of course, as with any migration that swims across a river, sometimes a few do drown, which may be part of where the myth comes from.

    They also have an interesting reproductive cycle, where they will overproduce and decimate the food supply, then die off to almost the point of extinction, which allows the food supply to replenish, then repeat the process. No one is really sure why they do this.

    This is probably more than anyone wanted to know about rodents. Thank you for your time.

  • 91. Ann S.  |  August 31, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Anonygirl, that is very interesting about lemmings. I knew they were rodents, but not the rest. Thank you.

  • 92. mandy  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Something involving the Kraken?

  • 93. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:08 am


  • 94. AndrewPDX  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 95. Tony Douglass in Ca  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:09 am

    I'm betting they are going to go biblical disasters next, floods, locusts, etc. They're already calling their de-gaying "Exodus"!

  • 96. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:59 am

    That right there was a good one. You deserve to be here.

  • 97. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Then they need to hurry up and find their paschal lamb and use his blood to cover their door posts and lintels before the Angel of Death arrives!

  • 98. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    There's a hurricane gathering strength….and I am afraid. I am a straw man, and I will be ripped apart by its winds, and saturated with its water.

  • 99. AndrewPDX  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:46 pm


    Best use of 'straw man' today 🙂

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 100. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Very well done, sir!!!

  • 101. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    Thanks, AndrewPDX and anonygrl. What would really be nice is if I had the funds to get the upgrades on the animation site and put some of these together, because I see the straw man dressed in Brian's brown suits!

  • 102. Elizabeth Oakes  |  September 1, 2010 at 2:34 am

    …and singing, "If I Only Had A Brain," of course.

  • 103. Carpool Cookie  |  September 1, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Ooooooohhhh! Good one!

  • 104. Phil L  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:54 pm


    "The volcano is erupting. Gays have begun rescuing kitties and doggies from animal shelters; no doubt to convert them into hissing machines and 'Gay Attack Dogs ©'."

  • 105. Christian  |  August 31, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    NOM's next disaster metaphor? Come December they will jump on the World of Warcraft bandwagon. They will be declaring a world-wide Cataclysm due to the unfair treatment they feel they get at the appeals court hearing. (FYI, "Cataclysm" is the name of the next WoW expansion due out in time for Christmas.)

  • 106. Elizabeth Oakes  |  September 1, 2010 at 2:36 am

    Wouldn't they be more prone to harvest "Halo" for metaphors then? 🙂

  • 107. elliom  |  August 31, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Klingon Invasion, 12/21/12

    After the invasion, Klingons will demand equal marriage rights.

  • 108. fiona64  |  September 1, 2010 at 2:08 am

    That's okay; the NOMbies will hold them at bay with the High Holy Tribble of Antioch.


  • 109. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 1, 2010 at 2:14 am

    And that will only prove that they never learned the lesson of "The Trouble with Tribbles." Tribbles are so cute, and so cuddly, but they overtake all available space faster and more invasively than kudzu and wisteria combined!

  • 110. Elizabeth Oakes  |  September 1, 2010 at 2:39 am

    LOL Fiona…we have replicas of the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch hanging from our fireplace mantel (along with a copy of the instructions.) Let me know if you ever need them. And I"ll keep them away from the Tribbles.

  • 111. Elizabeth Oakes  |  September 1, 2010 at 3:31 am

    Ooo! The Pacific Justice Institute referred to teh gayz/teh Stayt refusing to appeal the Prop 8 decision as "pushing California voters over a cliff!" So anonygirl called it with the lemmings thing!!! Way to go, anonygirl!!

    But now we need to add natural forces like gravity to the list along with natural disasters. And Klingons.

  • 112. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:08 am

    OT – Are we there yet? I think the Defendent Interweiners have until Sept 17th to file thier breifs. This thing is taking forever, when will we get there?????

  • 113. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Soon, SG! Soon!

    Here, put your feet up… relax a little, have some lemonade, and we will get there, I promise.

  • 114. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Fortunately, we've been pretty good at entertaining ourselves here while we wait.

  • 115. Elizabeth Oakes  |  September 1, 2010 at 2:41 am

    Yeah, it's frustrating to be waiting again, SG. I was wondering if the DIs brief will be posted on the court website immediately after submission, or if they'll delay posting the briefs for some reason? I would of course like to pore over it since I haven't spit nails or pulled out hanks of my own hair for a while.

  • 116. Kathleen  |  September 1, 2010 at 3:48 am

    The briefs are e-filed, which means they show up on the PACER system as soon as they're filed. I don't expect to see their brief until the deadline.

  • 117. Colin  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:09 am

    If “gay is like black,” then “Christian is like racist.” ……
    And that pretty much sums up the wall that prevents so many people from reaching rational conclusions about homosexuality. Carpool Kathleen really hit it home by pointing out that there are certainly many Christians that are not hostile, but rather, accepting of homosexuals.
    So there really is no end to the madness of someone who claims to know what the "ideal" everything is, right? But then, history has taught us all about that dangerous line of thinking.

  • 118. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:58 am

    The good news is that there are LOTS of Christians who will see through this, and will say "hey wait, that's not me!" and will make up their own minds about things.

    NOM doesn't do themselves ANY favors with this sort of rhetoric, (which is fine by me!). The more that they push towards boxing all Christians into their discriminatory position, the more Christians they lose, I think. And as people start to think "I am not that kind of a bigot!" I think they then start looking at the other side and say "hmmm… what did I think was so bad in the first place? They are people, just like me."

    At least I hope so.

  • 119. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:27 am

    Anyone else notice how easy it would be to turn their logo into a double male logo (double female would interfere with the wording location) and then add a carat to indicate insertion of the word "equality" after "marriage?"

  • 120. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:29 am


  • 121. Sagesse  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:34 am

    They're apoplexing over a government decision half way around the world. Do they think it's catching or something… OMG, the IRS might wise up. like that's going to happen any time soon.

  • 122. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Well, nothing they are doing HERE is working for them… might as well try to influence things in NZ.

    Then they can add to the list of their excuses "It was just too far AWAY!"

  • 123. Leo  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    What do they think about the fact that the majority of the population in Australia supports SSM? That'd be interesting to hear. "Australians are stupid?" "Australians are evil?"

  • 124. Roger  |  September 1, 2010 at 11:15 am

    "Australians are un-American."

  • 125. anonygrl  |  September 1, 2010 at 3:54 pm


  • 126. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:46 am

    Everybody, especially those of you who are usually one of the first ones to Comment usually jsut saying, "Subscribing"

    Here look what elliom | August 31, 2010 at 4:29 pm wrote
    "Hi SG:

    Mostly a lurker, but occasionally come out of my shell. :>"

    and Jen Mussari she posted also and I dont remember her as posting a lot.

    What would you say if when the early ones to subscribe you gave a little invite also. Maybe somthing like, "Subscribing and inviting all the lurkers to come out and comment, come on we know you are there, join in :)"

    I think that would be a nice thing to do, a little encouragement to expand the input would be a good thing, right?

  • 127. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:05 am

    LOVE to LURKERS! I am all for it!

    Come on out lurkers! We DO love you. We love that you are here, reading and following. We hope you find interesting info to take away with you.

    We would also love it if you just said "Hi!" once in a while. Even if you are shy about participating (and please, don't be! We love it when folks chime in, even just to agree or disagree in passing) just give us a "hey there!" once in a while, so we can give you a "hey there!" back again.

    There are cookies…..

    (setting a plate of warm chocolate chip cookies*, gooey and right out of the oven, out on our windowsill, so the sweet cookie smell wafts in the breeze. Also putting out a note next to it saying "help yourself, and come on in for a glass of cold milk to go with")

    *internet cookies are zero calorie goodness!

  • 128. AndrewPDX  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:10 am

    MMMM! Internet Cookies!!!

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 129. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:22 am


  • 130. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Now I'm all hungry.

  • 131. Jennifer Gail  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:39 am

    *Grins & takes a cookie, waves at everyone*

    I love reading hear, but rarely have anything to contribute that hasn't already been said.

  • 132. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Anonygrl's cookies did the trick!

  • 133. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:46 am

    HI Jennifer Gail!!!

    Enjoy the cookie! Have some milk! Chime in to the conversation!

    Glad to see you!

  • 134. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Hey hey hey, well welcome Jennifer Gail.
    Yeah you got stuff to say, I'm sure you have.
    You can come up with a natural disaster to blame on the da gayz can't you? Nobody has done firestorms or wind storms yet. In the desert wind storms are bad.

    I hope this catches on and that the early people who are mainly just saying subscribing can come up with creative ways to invite the lurkers to jpin in. Hey anongrl did it with a a fake cookie, munch munch munch.

  • 135. elliom  |  August 31, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Darn you! Now I'm gonna have to bake some cookies tomorrow!

  • 136. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:46 am

    I put this together VERY quickly so please excuse the mistakes….it's very rough


  • 137. anonygrl  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:08 am


  • 138. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:21 am


  • 139. Dave P.  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Excellent! I'm a huge fan of crappy campy horror films and I LOVE this. The music is inspired!

  • 140. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:20 am

    I lifted it directly from Night of the Living Dead LOL
    Glad you enjoyed it 🙂

  • 141. Elizabeth Oakes  |  September 1, 2010 at 2:46 am

    Ditto, the music really made it complete, LOL! I am practically incontinent with laughter!

  • 142. AndrewPDX  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:30 am

    That was wonderful! I Love it!!!!

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 143. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:53 am

    I'm so glad!

  • 144. Sagesse  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Most excellent :)!

  • 145. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Glad you liked 🙂

  • 146. Josiah  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:26 pm


  • 147. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:42 pm


  • 148. Cat  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Warning: rant mode…

    I am getting so annoyed of religious arguments about morals, laws, tax status, etc. The fact that some point of view is based on religious doctrine is IMMATERIAL. Mentioning 'religion' is not a blank check or get-out-jail-free card. The arguments and their supporting facts count, not where they come from. Your actions qualify as charitable? You're eligible for a tax break. Your holy book says it's OK to kill your neighbor? Too bad, if you do you're going to jail anyway. Your religious leader says it's bad to steal from others? Good for you, that happens to be the law too. There is NO RELEVANCE in the fact that someone's definition of marriage is based on the Bible. It's really of no consequence. Civil marriage is a cultural phenomenon that is codified in the law because of its benefits to society, and is subject to cultural progress. Yes, religion influences culture, but it does not dictate culture. If you can scientifically prove that A is true, no amount of religious texts can change that, and the law must be aligned with the fact that A is indeed true. The law can't help it that the religious doctrine is wrong, nor should it be concerned about it. And if some people keep saying A is false, whether they base it on religious views or so-called 'common sense', they are indeed bigots. Blind refusal to study and accept the facts is what makes them a bigot, nothing else. Hurting other people along the way makes them a Bigot with a capital B. Laws must have reasons, especially when they impose limitations. If there are no good reasons to prevent gay couples from marrying, then no religious doctrine, nor common sense, nor tradition should be able to prevent them from getting married. And yes, attempting to prevent equal marriage rights despite the mountain of evidence that it hurts gay families and does not hurt straight families, is discrimination.

    There, I've said it. I know I'm preaching (!) to the choir, but it was brewing inside me. Hopefully I can get some work done now…

  • 149. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Get rid of Thomas from SCOTUS and put Cat in his place.

  • 150. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:12 am

    I kept reading and looking, and reading and looking, I was almost to the end and letting out a sigh of disapointment and then Bam! I saw it "Discrimination" Oh thank you so much.

    Good rant by the way, could have used a couple paragraph breaks but as long as you used the word Discrimination, who am i to complain.

  • 151. Carpool Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:15 am

    There's a lot of scripture ordering Christianists to FOLLOW SECULAR LAW, too. They may be risking their eternal souls with that appeal…

    Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
    Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
    Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
    Romans 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
    Romans 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

  • 152. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:16 am

    STANDING O!!!!!!

  • 153. Cat  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Thank you for your comments! SG, it wouldn't be a rant if it had paragraph brakes 😉 But I see your point.

    Where can I apply for this SCOTUS position? I'm not sure if I would get elected, as an openly gay Dutch Dyke (pun intended).

  • 154. Bolt  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:30 am

    I understand. Ranting is good, and a bored ass bigot will read your post.

  • 155. Sagesse  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Well said, Cat.

  • 156. elliom  |  August 31, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Shout it loud, shout it openly, shout it frequently. THIS is the message we need them to hear!


  • 157. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Where does NOM run these things? I've never seen one played.

  • 158. mandy  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:06 am

    I would say that this all just sad except for the pain and hurt that it inflicts on people who are caught in their campaign of terror. I wonder if they will realize that they are trying to undue god's will and therefore committing a grievous sin. Shocking that NZ will strip a group tax exempt status because they torture innocent people.

  • 159. Carpool Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:17 am

    "Shocking that NZ will strip a group tax exempt status because they torture innocent people."

    I know…How'd THAT happen?

  • 160. Vaati  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Being Christian is a CHOICE, I choose every day not to walk into a church or accept Jesus as my savior. I do not choose to miss my girl in Finland, I just do, every day we're apart. Trying to equate the two is completely ludicrous.

    I hate that NOM has taken an innocent eating noise (om nom nom) and made it into some ultra unappetizing religious hogwash.

  • 161. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:38 am


    Being Christian is a choice …. but it shouldn't be.
    Being Gay isn't a choice …. but it should be.

  • 162. PhillyKarl  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Many Fundies will tell you that they are NOT Christian by choice, that they were called by God according to His purpose. (Ephesians 2:8 – For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.)
    BTW, I hope you get to see your Finnish girlfriend soon!

  • 163. Ed  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Something I just found on
    too bad the Advocate was late in covering this, but thats not what I'm discussing here.
    What caught my eye was this…..
    (Cut and Paste)
    Kathleen Perrin of the Courage Campaign notified Peter Yarrow that the organization was using their recording of the Woody Guthrie song, "This Land is Your Land," during their rallies without permission. Yarrow said their use of the song was "heartbreaking," and that he would contact the organization.

    KATHLEEN!! Sweet Job there!!!!
    As people would say, way back in the day….

    Sweetie, You really made some ink 🙂


  • 164. Kathleen  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:31 am

    The Advocate? Nice! Although what made my day was having my post linked from JMG. 🙂

  • 165. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Alright what is JMG?

  • 166. celdd  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:14 am

    I would guess

  • 167. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:18 am

    @ celdd thank you very much I have been waiting for kathleen to notice the comment and provide the answer but there is another topic started and I am sure she is quite busy looking for Court Records liek she always does for us here.
    BTW I don't notice that you comment a lot, is this your first comment?

  • 168. celdd  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    First, What are you doing still UP?

    I'm mostly a lurker, but comment when I have something to add. I wrote a long answer to your previous question about why the lurkers don't post, but I deleted it not sure if I wanted to share so much. I'm kind of a hermit like Kate and an introvert.

    I've been here since the beginning. A long time supporter of equal rights, even before I found out my oldest daughter was a lesbian. She and her wife were one of the 18,000 lucky couples. They got married at the local county recorder's office on Nov. 5, about an hour before they stopped issuing same-sex marriage licenses. It was a now or never moment so they panicked and plunged in. In spite of the 30 minutes notice, her Dad and I, a sister, and a few friends were able to get there for the ceremony. Some even brought flowers! Then we all went back to work. They had a nice Hawaiian themed reception several months later.

    Well, it turns out they weren't really ready for that sort of commitment, they recently separated. So, I feel bad about that. But this is an issue I feel strongly about and follow it closely. I am very appreciative of all the folks here.

  • 169. celdd  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Oh, I forgot to add. We have Wisconsin in common. I went to UW Madison for grad school in the early-mid 70s. Otherwise, I'm a native Californian.

  • 170. Ann S.  |  August 31, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    celdd, thank you for that story. I guess it's a shame they felt the pressure of "now or never" and maybe rushed to a commitment they weren't ready for. Another reason we need to work for equality.

    I have a Wisconsin tie, too — I grew up there. Lived in a suburb of Milwaukee until I went away to college, and have lived here in California ever since college.

  • 171. Bolt  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Closing down the anti-gay institutions is like removing bedbugs. They're blood sucking, unwanted bedroom intruders, and they can't survive without a host. By destroying proposition 8, the NOM, and every other religious organization that has profited at the expense of the gays will collapse from it's own dead weight.

    Anti-gay religion, and any future religion that uses groups of people as their scapegoat deserves to self implode, or be bath in it's own mess.

  • 172. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:39 am

    The last 2 Topics have been about NOM and we haven't even said our greetings,

    Hello Brian Brown the Biggest Bigot in America!
    Hi Louis, did you fill up the tires with air before you turned the bus back in, such agood little todie for Brian.
    Hey Maggie Gallagher world champion HATER, hope your feet aren't bothering you today.
    Bless your heart,
    Straight Grandmother

  • 173. Bill  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:53 am

    I adore you.

  • 174. Straight Grandmother  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Hugs to you Bill 🙂

  • 175. AndrewPDX  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:47 am

    @Jennifer Gail
    Welcome to the party! Pull up a 'subscribe' email and enjoy the ride 🙂

    Need another cookie? we gots lots!

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 176. Bill  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:53 am

    I have to snicker just a little bit. I'm not proud of that, but I can't help but chuckle.

    Their panic is showing. They know in their hearts that it's nearly over for them, and with it, their gravy train of hatred and cash donations.

    They have taken fear-mongering to a whole new level. First, it was the 'gathering storm' and now it's 'earthquakes.'

    What's their next headline going to be?

    "Gays plan nuclear attack across the globe"

  • 177. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:57 am

    Don't forget that Jerry Falwell blamed 9/11 on teh gayz.

  • 178. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    And he outed Tinky Winky!!!

  • 179. Kate  |  August 31, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Yes!!!! I had been trying to remember Tinky Winky's name, so thank you Mark.

  • 180. Elizabeth Oakes  |  September 1, 2010 at 2:54 am

    And Spongebob, don't forget Spongebob chose to be gay in his pineapple under the sea.

  • 181. Michael  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Shrill anti-gay pressure group NOM is mistaken (again). As a Christian gay man, I don't need fraudulent "ex-gay" groups to lead me to Christ. There are thousands and thousands of happy Christian gay people and more than 5,000 open and affirming churches just in the US. We are existing just fine without resorting to anti-gay groups which tell us that encouraging males to say, "Dude" and talk about football and encouraging females to wear dresses and make up will magically make us heterosexuals.

  • 182. Mark M  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Proud to be a Gay Christian!!
    And all without any 'help' from the NOMBIES

  • 183. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:53 am

    They are starting to realize that their arguments are holding less water than a sieve, and that these arguments are ringing true with fewer and fewer people. Therefore, they are at the point of desperation where there are no holds barred. They are at the point where anything goes, because they realize that everything is gone.

  • 184. eDee  |  August 31, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    {{helping gay people lead Christian lives}} That just kills me.

    I know plenty of Gay Christians or Christians who are gay – don't know which way to put that – BUT every gay individual I know personally IS a Christian.

    I often say, if there were a lesbian pill – I'd take it – I wonder how they would try to help me, a straight chick looking for a cure for straight?!?! LMAO.

  • 185. Linda  |  August 31, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    I can't help but giggle at the image of heaven. I mean, think about it, all these different Christian groups, all insisting they, and only they, are right. What's going to happen when EVERYONE gets in?

    Will there be a boycott?

    Will they picket?

    Will they get so mad they just implode?

    Who will they complain to?

    Will they pray about it?

    I think they should be very afraid….:)

  • 186. James Sweet  |  September 1, 2010 at 1:15 am

    The most unsatisfying thing about being an atheist is that I know there is no moment when those I disagree with will realize I was right about the afterlife all along.

    They get to believe that I'll die, wake up "somewhere else", and be all like, "Oh crap." I get to believe that they'll die and… still think I'm wrong.

    Quite unsatisfying! 😀

  • 187. Kate  |  September 1, 2010 at 1:27 am

    James, that is exactly how I have felt for years, and it's refreshing to see you state it so clearly. I feel cheated that I don't get to see their "ah-ha" moment.

  • 188. Elizabeth Oakes  |  September 1, 2010 at 3:02 am

    But James, you get to have all your living moments free of shame and guilt that you're a "sinner" for doing normal things like having sex or reading secular books or questioning authority, etc. So many who were indoctrinated into religion early never shake those feelings of fear and shame, even when they no longer believe or practice. What was the atheist bus campaign slogan in England? "There probably is no God…now relax and enjoy your life." So maybe the best realization is living well, to paraphrase the old saw. 🙂

  • 189. PhillyKarl  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    Old man Witthers finally dies and goes to Heaven. He's met by St. Peter at the pearly gates who gives him the full tour. Wiithers is astonished by the amazing diversity of people from all faiths, but also puzzled by a closed off room over in one corner. "What's that room for?" old man Withers asks. "Its for the Christian Fundamentalists", St. Peter replies with a wink. "They like to think they're here alone"

  • 190. AndrewPDX  |  September 1, 2010 at 12:08 am

    ROFL!!! I'm gonna have to share that one with some coworkers; thanks 🙂

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

  • 191. Madjoy  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    On the plus side, their language – "helping gay people lead Christian lives" – admits that there are gay people, rather than just people who choose to participate in homosexual activities. Their language admits that they are trying to get people not to commit the "sin", rather than actually change their underlying sexual orientation (and turn them ex-gay). Maybe it's a tiny step forward… ? Hey, I like to look on the bright side! Even if it's a very very tiny and still pretty dim side.

  • 192. James Sweet  |  September 1, 2010 at 1:14 am

    If “gay is like black,” then “Christian is like racist.”

    Hmmm, good point.

    At least, if you are the type of Christian who takes (certain select parts of*) Leviticus literally, that pretty much is like being racist. Yep.

    * Oh noes, I saw Maggie Gallagher <a href="; rel="nofollow">wearing mixed fibers! Stone her!

  • 193. phillykarl  |  September 1, 2010 at 1:53 am

    Yes! The only Godly fabrics are Homo fabrics! Heterofabrics are an abomination! Remember that 50% rayon = 100% Hellbound.

  • 194. Elizabeth Oakes  |  September 1, 2010 at 3:04 am

    LOL @ 100% Hellbound, Karl. That's catchy!! You should go into advertising.

  • 195. Michael Adrian  |  September 1, 2010 at 5:01 am

    Just want to chime in on this, great comments all!

    If “gay is like black,” then “Christian is like racist.”

    Only if the Christian mentioned has an irrational hatred of gay people.

    I think NOM should take a refresher course on their SAT analogies.

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