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Official Prop 8 Trial Tracker preview of the 9th Circuit hearing tomorrow

9th Circuit Court of Appeals Background Prop 8 trial Televising

By Adam Bink

Tomorrow is the 9th Circuit hearing of the appeal on Perry v. Schwarzenegger. As usual, it’ll be trial central here at P8TT. Here’s a run-down for all your 9th Circuit hearing needs:

  • What coverage you’ll find here at P8TT. The hearing starts at 10 AM PST tomorrow. As in Judge Walker’s courtroom, Courage Campaign’s Rick Jacobs and Arisha Michelle Hatch will be in the courtroom, sending back dispatches as they become available. I will be watching the proceedings and live-blogging, format similar to the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell hearings on Thursday and Friday. I will also be live-tweeting occasionally, and my handle is @adamjbink. Brian Leubitz, publisher of the Calitics blog and occasional legal contributor to P8TT, will be joining us tomorrow to post his occasional thoughts in the trial thread, and answer legal questions/comments from you in the comments. He’ll also have an analysis piece later tomorrow.
  • How the hearing will be divided. Oral arguments will be divided into two hour-long sessions with a brief recess in between. The issue of standing will be addressed in the first hour, and the constitutionality of Prop 8 in the second. David Boies will be arguing the standing issue, and Ted Olson, along with Therese Stewart from the City/County of San Francisco, will be arguing the constitutionality for our side. Charles Cooper will be addressing the constitutionality for the Pro-Prop 8 side, and it’s as-yet undetermined who will argue standing for their side, although Lisa Keen reports Imperial County will be represented by an attorney from Advocates for Faith and Freedom.
  • Possible rulings. Brian and the rest of the legal team will have more on this in the week ahead, but brief, potential rulings include upholding Judge Walker’s ruling denying standing to the defender/intervenors, not to mention the issue of constitutionality itself. And naturally, that could go the other way. The case may be appealed to the Supreme Court, but if the court does not take the case and the ruling goes our way, Prop 8 will be overturned. P8TT friend Karen Ocamb reports that if the Supremes do not take the case, AFER announced it will then file a new lawsuit to try and achieve marriage equality at the federal level. The losing party could also appeal for a ruling by the full 9th Circuit, which can decide to hear or not to hear such an appeal. And last, if proponents of Imperial County lose on standing, there may not be a ruling on the merits (constitutionality) at all. But then, the Supremes could rule that defendant/intervenors do have standing and send the case back to the 9th Circuit for a ruling on merits. We’ll have more legal scenarios and analysis tomorrow and later this week at P8TT, as well.
  • Where to watch. You can watch in-person, on C-SPAN, at a local law school near you, at a local courthouse near you, at the LA Gay and Lesbian Center (doors open at 9:30), and other places. Karen has the skinny on some other viewing possibilities. But of course, the best place to follow along, comment and read your fellow community members’ analysis, especially if you’re busy for the two hours, will be P8TT!
  • Where to go to be with supporters. If you’re in the area, tomorrow from 7:30-9:30 AM, various LGBT community leaders and allies will be holding a community rally before the hearing starts. The location is the courthouse at 7th and Mission Streets in San Francisco. In attendance will be NCLR’s Kate Kendall, Rev. Jesse Jackson, Chief Deputy City Attorney Therese Stewart, Lambda Legal’s Jenny Pizer, and other community leaders. You can also stick around to watch the hearing in overflow courtrooms, or head out to follow along here. A Facebook invite is here.

If you have any other tidbits to add, or questions/comments/expectations, please leave them in the comments.

Big day tomorrow. See you all then!


  • 1. Rhie  |  December 5, 2010 at 8:32 am


  • 2. Straight Ally #3008  |  December 5, 2010 at 8:39 am

    …although Lisa Keen reports Imperial County will be represented by an attorney from Advocates for Faith and Freedom.

    I'm picturing the Hyper-Chicken from Futurama.

  • 3. Ronnie  |  December 5, 2010 at 8:41 am



  • 4. Ed Cortes  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    We have LOTS of hope. That, and wonderful lawyers on our side.

  • 5. Kathleen  |  December 5, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Hanging out with the awesome Ann S and her wonderful family. Can't wait to see everyone tomorrow.

  • 6. Ann S.  |  December 5, 2010 at 9:21 am

    We're having a visit from the awesome Kathleen! Looking forward to seeing everyone tomorrow.

  • 7. Kate  |  December 5, 2010 at 9:33 am

    I'm so damned f*ing jealous I could just spit. I want to be with you guys! I'd even make sure I didn't fall asleep in my old age at your daughter's concert………

  • 8. Bob  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:17 am

    Kate I feel xactly the same as you, but I also felt that way when you got to go on your trip ,,,,,

    Hope Kathleen and Ann, have a great time, and become visible somehow in the courtroom, I don't think I get cspan in
    Canada, but hope someone gets to see those two live.

    To all those who are going, I'm so happy for you, and this long awaited day finally arriving,

    Tomorrow is my Birthday, and I couldn't think of a better gift than some good news from the bench for all you hard working deserving folks….. cheers Bob

  • 9. Lesbians Love Boies  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Hope you have a wonderful birthday Bob

  • 10. alex  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:40 am

    You can view it via CSPAN web site if you don't get CSPAN in Canada.

  • 11. anonygrl  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    I am with you, Kate.


    Have a great time meeting up and enjoy the show. I am jealous, and at work, so I can't even whine out loud, darn it all!

  • 12. DaveP  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Hi Kathleen and Ann!!

    See you two in the morning!! : )

  • 13. Sheryl, Mormon Mothe  |  December 5, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    I, also, will be there hoping to meet up with everyone.

    Sheryl, Mormon Mother

  • 14. Kathleen  |  December 5, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Glad you'll be there and hope to see you, Sheryl.

  • 15. Ann S.  |  December 5, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    I wish you all could be here, too!

  • 16. Matthew  |  December 5, 2010 at 9:32 am

    I'm so excited. I'm feeling very positive about tomorrow!

    I've been loudly singing the 'all I want for Christmas' song except instead of my two front teeth, 'all i want for Christmas is Equal-i-Ty!

  • 17. Ronnie  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Holiday Caroling from Members of Marriage Equality USA……I love it…..<3…Ronnie:…!

  • 18. Jenny  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Does anyone know if the hearing will be aired on CSPAN nationally? I live in Ohio, but would still like to watch this hearing. I'd rather watch on my TV since I have the day off tomorrow, but I guess if I have to I will find an online location.

  • 19. Kathleen  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:30 am

    As far as I know, this will be a national broadcast.

  • 20. Marlene  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Jenny — C-SPAN will air the case LIVE on their main channel and on beginning at 1:00pm EST.

    Just about every major cable outlet has the main C-SPAN channel on their basic service.

    Do *not* be surprised if Washington Journal has a major segment of their show dedicated to the coverage.

    Sunday morning, they has a segment on ending DADT, and the ignorance of Americans is staggering!

    One woman who claimed to have served with gays and lesbians, claimed that openly serving gay men will demand wanting to wear makeup, bras and panties! I dunno if she had gays confused with transgenders, but I had to kill the sound on My iMac before I threw it out the window, I was so mad!

  • 21. Richard A. Jernigan  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Will be watching the live stream tomorrow on my laptop. Will catch up with whatever new posts come up after the stream. I also want to take this time to thank our live blogging team in advance for all their hard work tomorrow, especially the part that will be the hardest–trying not to throw up when Cooper et al. start in on their repetitive "responsible procreation" argument.

  • 22. Carpool Cookie  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:21 am

    "Will be watching the live stream tomorrow on my laptop."

    Does one just go to the CSPAN website, and they'll show it there live, as well?

    And Yes, a big thanks to all family members who will be there, reporting back!!

  • 23. Kathleen  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:31 am

    You should be able to easily find it at this link:

  • 24. Ashee  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Is anyone else afraid that the CSPAN website will crash? I've been trying to look for other places with a live stream, just in case, but they all seem to point back to CSPAN

  • 25. Ashee  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:46 am

    nm, just saw the KGO info, thanks 🙂

  • 26. Lesbians Love Boies  |  December 6, 2010 at 1:01 am

    Here is the KGO link for the live feed

  • 27. JonT  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Ditto. A great way to start the week – streaming p8tt appeals trail and coffee 🙂

  • 28. Richard A. Jernigan  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Yes. I wonder what my coffee makers will be saying to me by the end of the day? Probably the same thing the washer, the dryer, the vacuum cleaner, the duster, and the dishwasher said by the time we were finished getting ready for Pesach (Passover), which was "STOP ALREADY!"

  • 29. NetAmigo  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:29 am

    KGO TV will webcast it live starting at 10 am. Here's a link.

  • 30. Ray  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Will we get the decision tomorrow?

  • 31. JPM  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:44 am


  • 32. Marlene  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:12 am

    It will most likely be weeks to months before the decision's handed down.

    I would not be surprised, though if the three judges immediately rule that the religious-based team is ineligible from defending Imperial County on Establishment Clause grounds.

  • 33. alex  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:45 am

    I seriously doubt that.

  • 34. Carpool Cookie  |  December 5, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Legal decisions are made by checking a lot of precedent-setting cases, and the judges will want to follow up by going through old archives depending on what the attorneys argue. (The lawyers will be elaborating on their briefs, which were submitted weeks ago, but some new points may come up that they'll want to cornfirm.)

    Also, the decision will be a written one…so they need time to discuss it, elect one of them to write it, then HAVE that person write it (No?)

    But basically, there will not be a decision given on the spot. Unfortunately, we won't have Judge Judy on hand.

  • 35. Lesbians Love Boies  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:12 am

    One more sleep.

  • 36. grod  |  December 5, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Marlene and Alex
    Establishment Clause grounds: what is it?

  • 37. Richard A. Jernigan  |  December 5, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    grod, the Establishment Clause is the one that relates to Separation of Church and State. This is the clause which states that the government will not make any laws to establish one particular religion over another, and this is also the clause that relates to religion staying out of the government as well.

  • 38. Alex  |  December 5, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    The 9th circuit will most likely say ghetto Imperial County doesn't have standing to appeal. Not that on the Establishment Clause.

  • 39. Marlene  |  December 5, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    Grod — If Imperial County wanted to properly challenge the Prop H8 decision, they should've used one of the attorneys hired by the county to represent the County Commissioners.

    This group, Advocates for Faith and Freedom, is a purely Christian organization, and since the Establishment Clause prohibits a public entity from supporting one religious group over another, this is a blatant violation.

    As to the Prop H8 trial itself, we need to look back at the Loving v Virginia case.

    The Lovings were an interracial couple arrested for violating Virginia's ban on interracial marriage. The original judge in the case quoted the bible as justification for the ban.

    When the case reached the Supreme Court, the justices ruled that the ban was as much of a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First, as it was a violation of the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the 14th, in that religion cannot be justification to deny the civil rights of anyone.

    The backers of Prop H8 have continually used religious grounds to defend the measure, which leaves the case completely open to be struck down, using the precedent of the Loving decision.

  • 40. grod  |  December 5, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Maggie at 7.26 this evening on NOM's site wrote an opinion piece in which she sets up Olson to attack him. Titled Ted Olson v. Ted Olson, it might be conclude that people's view can evolve.
    As frequently depicted, not this author's. Nor can she permit others the room to do so.

  • 41. Carpool Cookie  |  December 5, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    I can never find a comments section on the NOM site. Do you have to be registered with them, or something?

    Where's the discussion (or am I asking too much?)

  • 42. Kathleen  |  December 5, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    This particular piece is in the NOM Blog

  • 43. Carpool Cookie  |  December 5, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Thanks : )

    I like reading this after her entries:

    COMMENTS: (0)

  • 44. Sagesse  |  December 5, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    Maggie's not going to sleep well tonite :).

  • 45. Marlene  |  December 5, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Grod — You forget that Maggie and her odious religious fanatics don't *believe* in evolution, remember? >snark<

  • 46. James A Tuttle  |  December 5, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Not only has Maggie put up the Olsen piece but 6 thinks someone is very an ious for tomorrow.

  • 47. Ed  |  December 5, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Not that the outcome of this case affects Maggie at all. She can still be the blowhard whistle caller for whatever issue, she can still be married to her hidden husband, she can still shout lies about gay people, she can still reap the money from her sheepl…….OH SHIT! Thats IT!!!! She has GOT to keep the money rolling in!! (note sarcasm….)

    Her lifeline is attached to a sinking ship, and she *knows* it's going down…..

  • 48. Chris in Lathrop  |  December 5, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    …will be working overtime, anxious to get home and read all the news, and quite jealous of those who get to be there. I'll be with you in spirit, my friends! 🙂

  • 49. BK  |  December 5, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    So glad for the C-SPAN! I can't watch it in the court-room, so this is the next best thing! Although, hopefully p8tt can post important snippets of the arguments here. That would be nice. Have a great day, everyone! Don't forget to tune in!

  • 50. Lesbians Love Boies  |  December 5, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    You too BK. I have got butterflies!

  • 51. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    Couldn't figure out where to post on this thread as I LOVE ALL OF YOU so will post here at the bottom. Best wishes to all those gathering in CA this morning : ) I'll be leaving work in a bit to join my hubby so we can watch together on CSPAN

    Looking forward to watching for more possible legal scenarios…

    ((HUGS)) to all!

  • 52. anonygrl  |  December 6, 2010 at 1:09 am

    Love you too, even though I am not in California, and not going to be live blogging the show.


  • 53. mackenzie  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    3 hours to go! I pray this ends well!

  • 54. Ronnie  |  December 5, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    Katy Perry joined Darren Criss (Blaine, Glee) & the Dalton Warblers during their performance of "Teenage Dream" at the Trevor Project benefit last night in Hollywood….not the best quality video….but I love it anyway….<3…Ronnie:

  • 55. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  December 6, 2010 at 12:12 am

    : D

  • 56. CaliGirl  |  December 6, 2010 at 1:45 am

    I've been waiting for this forEVER. 😀

    Now I'll have to wait until four. Damn. XD

  • 57. fiona64  |  December 6, 2010 at 1:54 am

    The Billy deFrank LGBT Community Center in San Jose is also having a community viewing today.


  • 58. Sagesse  |  December 6, 2010 at 1:56 am

    Haven't digested what this report says, never mind what it means, but people are going to be talking about this report

    The State Of Our Unions: New Study Reports Growing 'Marriage Gap'

  • 59. Ronnie  |  December 6, 2010 at 2:04 am

    You know I am really getting tired of this bullshite……If DADT doesn't get repealed I hope the government is prepared for an all out nation wide riot due to the lies, unkept promices & theft of our tax money used to go through this process for what amounts to nothing….The majority of the country wants it gone….the majority of the armed forces wants it gone…..the President wants it gone….It has been voted on & passed in 2 committees…..It has been declared unconstitutional…..Our military allies around the world are laughing at our inability to get rid of it…..all because some selfish rich RATPUBLICANS want to keep their [email protected]#king money…..un-patriotic avaricious rats pretending to be the mighty pachyderm….. >I …..Ronnie:

  • 60. Ronnie  |  December 6, 2010 at 2:15 am

    ugg….unkept promises… : / ….Ronnie

  • 61. Bob  |  December 6, 2010 at 2:21 am

    I happen to believe in miracles, they want a fricking miracle, lets give it to them, big time, they havent scheduled DADT repeal , lets do it for them……

    Let the people speak, together on the streets, in their face, let them know what our priority is,

    If we ignore this call to action, we're to blame,,,,, the time is now, let the class war begin, with justice and dignity on our side, cast our fear aside and rise up…… lean forward, march on equality NOW, no amount of wealth will baracade the few against the unruly masses,,,,, what good is it to be rich in a land where the majority is at the breaking point, NO has broken,
    take America back,

  • 62. Kate  |  December 6, 2010 at 2:06 am

    9:00 am PST Brian Copeland on KGO has started pre-hearing coverage. Listen online at from anywhere.

  • 63. new  |  December 6, 2010 at 2:28 am

    Good Morning Ladies, Gentlemen and EVERYONE in between.

    Live Webcast at The California Channel – 10:00 am
    9th Circuit Court of Appeal: Prop 8 Oral Arguments:


  • 64. 9th Circuit Perry v. Schw&hellip  |  December 6, 2010 at 9:07 am

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