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So wait, NOM: Has the fight begun or not?


Oops -Adam

Cross-posted at Good As You

By Jeremy Hooper



The fight just begun? Has not yet begun? Will begin soon?

So what were Prop 8, Maine, and all the other times NOM used its agenda to stifle civil rights: Mere tiffs? Because if you asked our brains, ring fingers, or souls, they’d tell you they felt fought!


  • 1. gaydadtobe  |  February 24, 2011 at 5:35 am

    For me, the fight began Nov. 4, 2008. It should have started earlier, and I'm sorry for that, but a fire was lit inside that day.

  • 2. allen  |  February 24, 2011 at 7:17 am

    I know exactly what you mean. I was elated when same sex marriage was allowed in CA, but I don't think I paid attention to how meaningful it was or appreciated the hard work it must have taken to get to that point.

    After Nov. 4th I had felt scorned, and it changed my whole outlook about marriage equality. My semi-complacency turned into action. The battle began on Nov 4th for me as well and the war will not end for me until full equality is achieved.

  • 3. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  February 24, 2011 at 5:36 am

    I visited the NOMBlog today….their articles seems so strange to me….are nombies from an alternate universe?

    “Marriage is a unifying issue in America. The federal Defense of Marriage Act reflects the reality that 90 percent of states protect marriage and that the citizens in those states believe in marriage as a union only between one man and one woman. Tragically, the Department of Justice has chosen to appease a small–but vocal and wealthy–constituency and abandon its duty to the people.”

  • 4. Ronnie  |  February 24, 2011 at 5:47 am

    "wealthy"…..really?…….haahahahahahahahaha…this coming from the homophobic anti-Equality/freedom/marriage/ Fascists who waste millions upon millions of dollars attacking LGBT & Straight tax paying American citizens….attacking LGBT & Straight children & adults….attacking LGBT & Straight Americans of ALL faiths…..NOM = FAIL ……. : I ….Ronnie

  • 5. Ronnie  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:03 am

    (pst..edit button)….that was supposed to say …"this coming from the homophobic anti-Equality/freedom/marriage/gay"……I thought I typed out the last word….hmmmm…anywho….NOM = FAIL…..FAIL!!!!….<3…Ronnie

  • 6. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  February 24, 2011 at 10:32 am

    EXACTLY Ronnie!

  • 7. Joe  |  February 24, 2011 at 8:35 am

    90% of states protect marriage? So that means that only 1/2 of a state doesn't…. I thought there were more states than that that allowed same-sex marriage. Crazy stupid statistics.

  • 8. Kathleen  |  February 24, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    You're getting all sciency on them. These are God's statistics.

  • 9. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  February 24, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    LOLOLOLOLOL! needed a good belly laugh this morning!

  • 10. Elizabeth Oakes  |  February 25, 2011 at 7:48 am

    Is there "mathiness" just like there's "truthiness"?

  • 11. Ed  |  February 24, 2011 at 5:39 am

    Wait for it…..wait for it…..oh yes…here it comes….here it is….
    (Ya'll all just knew Bryan Fischer was going to comment…)

    Courtesy of the AFA….

  • 12. Straight for Equalit  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:13 am

    "The entire argument based on marriage "equality" is just gas. Homosexuals already have full marriage equality: they can get married, same as everybody else, to an adult, non-relative member of the opposite sex. Don't let them fool you with all this "equality" bloviation. They already have full equality under the law; they have exactly the same rights as everybody else."

    Yes, Bryan Fischer, just like before interracial marriage was legalized, blacks had the same rights to marriage as whites. They could each marry a person of their own race. Sorry, Bryan, not good enough! That won't fly.

  • 13. fiona64  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:28 am

    "I'll take deliberately disingenuous bee-ess for $2000, Alex!"

    The answer: What is Bryan Fishcher's commentary on DOMA, really?


  • 14. Kathleen  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:30 am

    I prefer to think of it as "commentary."

  • 15. nightshayde  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:52 am

    I don't quite get that "they already have rights equal to ours" argument. If that's the tack they take, why not mention that legalizing same sex marriage will give them an extra right that they don't currently have.

    How can more rights for all be a bad thing? o.o?

  • 16. fiona64  |  February 24, 2011 at 9:23 am


    (Which, as my friend Laura says, is either LOL or "Help, I'm drowning!")


  • 17. the lone ranger  |  February 24, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    Or put another way, we're arguing for marriage equality for heterosexuals too… if a str8 man or str8 woman wants to marry a same-sex partner, they should be able to… true marriage equality! LOL. And what if the average str8 man or str8 woman isn't interested in a same sex partner? Well, maybe now Bryan Fischer might figure out how we feel about opposite sex partners.

  • 18. Ray in MA  |  February 24, 2011 at 9:27 am

    My post response on that site:

    Fischer: "If DOMA goes down, even states with marriage amendments in their constitutions may be forced to recognize sexually deviant marriages from pro-deviancy states."

    This is B&W proof that Obama is correct:

    "The record contains numerous expressions reflecting moral disapproval of gays and lesbians and their intimate and family relationships – precisely the kind of stereotype-based thinking and animus the Equal Protection Clause is designed to guard against."

    … I'm sure the post/comment will not be shown, but I got it off my chest!

  • 19. Ray in MA  |  February 24, 2011 at 10:38 am

    If you want to leave them a personal message and tell this org how vulgar and disgusting they are, go to:

  • 20. Mark M - Seattle  |  February 24, 2011 at 5:44 am

    For me the fight began in 1993 when Hawaii could have and should have become the first state to approve marriage equality….but we all know how that went.
    Thanks LDS 🙁

  • 21. Elizabeth Oakes  |  February 25, 2011 at 7:51 am

    And I add additional thanks to that for the defeat of the ERA, meant to give Constitutional protection to women (as Anton Scalia recently noted, women don't have Constitutional protection and shouldn't expect to be treated equally.). Jon Krakauer et al lay the blame squarely on LDS lobbying in swing states and the ERA failed by one state. Anything that doesn't fit their straight male dominance model gets attacked.

  • 22. AnonyGrl  |  February 24, 2011 at 5:52 am

    It is time for another episode of "The Bus is Now Completely Off Its Wheels!" the ongoing saga of a woman, a man, a Louis, and a bus.

    The scene is a press conference in the NOM offices. Brian, Maggie and Louis stand at the podium, their publicist stands off to one side holding a camera. Two press people stand in front of them, half heartedly holding up mics.

    Reporter 1 (to Reporter 2): Why are we here? Don't we have enough footage of them saying 'Marriage is about responsible procreation' and 'It's not discrimination to treat different things differently' to last us until the year 2173?

    Reporter 2: Oh sure. I just came in to get out of the rain. And I heard they were going to serve donuts after.

    Louis taps on the mic and says "check check" until it squeals, the classic sign that the mic is on and the sound person has gone out for coffee, and thus we are ready to start. Maggie pulls Louis away from the mic and Brian steps up.

    Brian: We have not yet begun to fight for marriage. We plan to start next Wednesday…

    Maggie: (coughs into her hand): immediately…

    Brian: IMMEDIATELY to carry on this fight! We are fighting, yes we are! Well, we will be, now that we have reached the point of starting. So far it hasn't been a fight, but now it is, and we are fighting it! In fact, we've BEEN fighting it! And you can quote me on that!!

    Maggie hangs her head and cringes.

    Reporter 1: So let me get this…

    Brian interrupts him.

    Brian: Please raise your hand.

    Reporter 1, looking at Reporter 2 in disbelief, raises his hand slowly. Reporter 2 snickers.

    Brian: Yes? You? Where are you from?

    Reporter 1: The Tea Party of Upper North Western Idaho Free Press.

    Brian smiles broadly to allow the publicist to get a picture, then points at Reporter 1 again.

    Brian: You have a question?

    Reporter 1: Oh, trust me, I have MANY questions… ahem. So… let me get this straight, you say you have only just begun to fight?

    Brian (proudly): Yes.

    Reporter 1: So… what did you do with all those millions of dollars that we have been donating to you up till now?

    Louis bursts in, cutting in front of Brian.

    Louis (waving in the direction of the parking lot): Have you SEEN our bus?

    Brian smiles and nods, Louis looks proud and heads out, dragging Brian along and beckoning everyone to follow him to see the bus. Maggie sighs and as everyone else follows after Louis, pulls a section of the paper out of her purse, and starts circling help wanted ads with a red pen.

    Fade to black.

  • 23. Bob Miller  |  February 24, 2011 at 5:57 am


  • 24. Ronnie  |  February 24, 2011 at 5:58 am

    "Louis bursts in, cutting in front of Brian.

    Louis (waving in the direction of the parking lot): Have you SEEN our bus?"

    FROFLMAO…..oh wow…tears…. XP …..Ronnie

  • 25. Carpool Cookie  |  February 25, 2011 at 3:30 am

    I wonder if that bus will end up in the Smithsonian some day….or will they have to chop it up to sell the parts before then?

  • 26. Richard A. Jernigan  |  February 25, 2011 at 3:51 am

    Actually, I think it has already entered the repainting process so that it will be a suitable love nest for Brian and Louis.

  • 27. Carpool Cookie  |  February 25, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    You know, I really hope they'll find SOME happiness. Then they'll maybe stop lashing out at everyone else.

  • 28. DaveP  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:33 am

    Hee Hee. Excellent!

  • 29. Mark M - Seattle  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:46 am


  • 30. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  February 24, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Yay!!!! An AnonyGrl story!!!

  • 31. AnonyGrl  |  February 24, 2011 at 10:37 am


  • 32. Richard A. Jernigan  |  February 24, 2011 at 11:30 am

    OMG!!!! You now have the Rabbi and Rebbitizen of Congregation Beth David ROFLOFWGAO!!!!!

  • 33. Rhie  |  February 24, 2011 at 5:53 am

    You know, I want the fence sitters to talk to a couple who can't get married and hear the absolute longing in their voices when they talk about it.

    Hell, I want Maggie et al to hear than and then say they don't really want to get married or that they are awful or whatever. It's easy to say that stuff from a podium. It's a whole other thing to say it to a human being.

  • 34. Mouse  |  February 25, 2011 at 2:25 am

    Years of dehumanizing LGBT makes it easier for them. They've got plenty of practice.

  • 35. Carpool Cookie  |  February 25, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    Yeah….they're way beyond the point of empathy.

    I can't remember who it was who said this the other day, but it was "They climbed to the top using the knives they stabbed in other people's backs."

    Maybe it was Kathleen??

  • 36. Ronnie  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:20 am

    New "Give A Damn" PSA…on Immigration…<3…Ronnie:

  • 37. Kate  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:24 am

    OMG — I know those women! Too bad I can't play the video to see it, though.

  • 38. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  February 24, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    Here you go Kate! Love, Gregory : )

    I'm Judy, I'm Karen and we give a damn about equality.
    Judy: We have been in a realashioship for 5 years….

    Karen(speaking with a soft, pleasant British accent): …Crossing the ocean between america where Judy is a citizen and the U.K. where I live.

    Judy: We know that first hand that every day loving and committed gay and lesbian couples are kept apart by discriminatory immigration laws.

    Karen: If we were a straight couple, Judy would be able to sponsor me for united states citizenship
    Judy: and we'd be well on our way to living our golden years together , caring for each other, building a life and home. (tears…Gregory's tears in appreciation for this lovely couple)

    Karen: more than 18 other nations allow their gay citizens to sponsor their partners to immigrate but unfortunately the United States is not one of them

    Judy: Imagine being forced to choose between the person you love most in the world and the country you have called home your entire life.

    Karen: Imagine being forced to make that decision

    Judy: Its time for things to change

    Karen: Its time to tear down the wall that stands between. loving committed couples like us (big loving smile toward Judy)

    Judy: We all have to get involved.

    Karen: We ALL have to give a damn.

    Judy: We give a DAMN

    Karen: Do you?

    voice over: join us @ to learn more

  • 39. chris  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:24 am

    "I have not yet begun to fight"

    So, I guess you used all those millions of dollars you collected from hysterical old white rural folks to buy a yaht, then Brian?

  • 40. AnonyGrl  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:41 am

    LOL Or a bus.

  • 41. chris  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:30 am

    Hey, I'm kinda short on cash, so I think I'll start an anti-marriage equality organization and get gullible people to send me money! I'll get rich in no time. And because I don't have to disclose the names of my donors, they can't sue me for fraud. Perfect!

  • 42. nightshayde  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:54 am

    … and then you can spend at least part of the money on pro-equality stuff.

  • 43. Carpool Cookie  |  February 25, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    I guess they struck out with Amway first.

  • 44. fiona64  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:30 am

    NOM, et al, comparing themselves to John Paul Jones with their quotes? Really?

    Wow. Delusions of grandeur much?


  • 45. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2011 at 1:45 am

    Yeah, NOM is more like Jim Jones…….just saying….<3…Ronnie

  • 46. Greg  |  February 24, 2011 at 7:47 am

    NOM's position makes a lot of sense.

    After all, if I knew that I was going to lose – I would not be fighting either.

  • 47. Ronnie  |  February 24, 2011 at 8:04 am

    Mark & Sunrise Ruffalo are New Yorkers speaking out to show their support for Marriage Equality…..<3….Ronnie:

  • 48. JonT  |  February 24, 2011 at 8:24 am

    I'm amused at NOM's spin – the 'The fight has just begun.'. I'm guessing this is an attempt to shore up their donors and convince them that the money they've already spent wasn't really wasted. Much.

    What's also funny is the statements they've made about how 'the left started the culture war', when in actuality, if they'd just mind their own lives and quit trying to enforce their religious views on everyone, there wouldn't be this 'culture war', whatever that is.

  • 49. Felyx&Kevyn  |  February 24, 2011 at 8:31 am

    "We have not yet begun to fight for marriage!" – Brian Brown

    And this is why they are losing! (Sanity, dignity, the ability to reason….)

  • 50. nightshayde  |  February 24, 2011 at 8:46 am

    I don't think they ever WILL begin to fight for marriage. They've been fighting against marriage for so long, they wouldn't know how to start.

  • 51. Mouse  |  February 25, 2011 at 2:30 am

    It's out of character for them to recognize that, though!

  • 52. Felyx&Kevyn  |  February 24, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Forty years after Stonewall, Brian Brown is quoted as saying, “This fight is not over, it has only begun!”

  • 53. Greg  |  February 24, 2011 at 8:40 am

    NOM is such an odious organization. I cannot believe that they have a Princeton professor (of "civil liberties" – of all things) on their board. It's a disgrace to that university in particular, and a disgrace to higher education in general.

  • 54. Carpool Cookie  |  February 25, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    Some academics are crazy. It's from spending too many hours alone in study hall.

  • 55. AnonyGrl  |  February 24, 2011 at 10:14 am

    After I used NOM's "send an email to your Congressman" application, they put me on their mailing list. I just received an email blast from them that began:

    "Dear Marriage Supporter…"

    was full of all their standard boilerplate and a long irony filled rant about how Obama should allow the courts to have their say… and ended with:

    "P.S. You know what I do here: I ask you if you can donate this week. Fight back with your email alerts and your letters and your phone calls. Fight for us with your prayers. And if you can, this week, reach down and sacrifice to give us the means to tell more people how our rights and our Constitution are being taken away. It takes $10 to reach 1,000 Americans on new media. Can you help us? $100 will reach out to 10,000 others! Thank you again and God bless you, and may God bless America!"

    Here, in toto, is the email reply I sent to [email protected].

    Dear Brian Brown,

    I AM a marriage supporter. I strongly support the right for two people who love each other to marry, form a family, raise children if they choose to, and live happily ever after.

    I am extremely proud of the fact that my President is a supporter of marriage too. I am glad that he has finally stepped up and is doing the right thing. I am pleased as punch that he has taken this amazing step and announced that he is no longer supporting nor defending the very discriminatory Defense of Marriage Act.

    Thank you so much for providing me with such an easy way to send an email to my Congressman supporting President Obama as he makes history.

    And as he puts you and your organization in its dustbin.

    P.S. Here is where I tell you that I CAN help you out. I can explain to you at great length how none of your Constitutional rights are being effected in the slightest, and help you to understand that there is no way at all that marriage equality will change your life, except for the fact that you will lose supporters as people come to see that you are pushing a platform of intolerance and discrimination. But since that is all for the good of this great country, and the rest of us, and, in the long run, even you when you find yourself living in a more tolerant, loving, caring society, I am afraid I can't see my way to supporting you with money or even sympathy for your position.

  • 56. nightshayde  |  February 24, 2011 at 10:42 am

    I so want to give you a great big kiss right now, AnonyGrl.

    *blows a kiss 'cross country*

  • 57. Richard A. Jernigan  |  February 24, 2011 at 11:24 am

    What a FABULOUSLY eloquent way to cuss Brian out where he won't even know what hit him! AnonyGrl, YOU ROCK!!!!!

  • 58. Sheryl Carver  |  February 24, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Adding to the flock of kisses coming your way, Anonygrl!

  • 59. Lesbians Love Boies  |  February 24, 2011 at 11:18 pm

    I hope he reads it all the way to the PS….but I doubt it. He seems to want to ignore us…we don't really exist like his unicorns once did.

  • 60. Sagesse  |  February 24, 2011 at 10:14 am

    The creative hysteria is only just begun.

  • 61. Kathleen  |  February 24, 2011 at 12:29 pm

  • 62. Ronnie  |  February 24, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    double that…..<3…Ronnie

  • 63. Ed Cortes  |  February 24, 2011 at 6:45 am

    Me, too!

  • 64. JonT  |  February 24, 2011 at 8:21 am

    I concur with the continuing resolution.

  • 65. Tweets that mention So wa&hellip  |  February 24, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    […] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jane Coaston, Testimony. Testimony said: So wait, NOM: Has the fight begun or not? […]

  • 66. Michael  |  February 24, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    We got a preview of NOM’s “fighting spirit” this past summer in Indianapolis when they permitted a follower to display a poster calling for the hanging of God’s gay children. This is NOM’s version of “morality” and “tradition.” The problem for radical anti-gay pressure group NOM is that they are trying to do an end run around the Constitution by redefining it state-by-state to remove the rights and religious liberty of pro-equality Americans. In Iowa, they do an end run around our judical system by forcing out all judges who refuse to kow-tow to the immoral anti-gay agenda. The good news is that NOM’s increasing desperation will only prove our points and hasten the coming day of equality for ALL Americans. Radical anti-gay activists can live as they like. They cannot, however, redefine the Constitution for all the rest of us.

  • 67. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 24, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    Related: I kinda look forward to the anti-equality side intervening in defense of DOMA. If the Prop 8 trial was their A game, it’ll be quite the train wreck. Olson and Boies are nicely warmed up to argue for repeal, can someone make that happen? 🙂

  • 68. Carpool Cookie  |  February 25, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    Yes, it would be the Cultural World Series. I'd like to see it, too. ESPECIALLY under Heightened Scrutiny.

  • 69. Richard A. Jernigan  |  February 24, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    Maggie talks about now congressional representatives can fight this and not pander to special interests. Excuse me, but when you are trying to codify one group’s set of religious dogma into the civil laws, that in and of itself is pandering to a special interest group. In this case, the National Organization for Misinterpretaion, Misinformation, MIsquoting, and Mistranslating!

  • 70. Bennett  |  February 24, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    This type of inconsistency is always tripping up people who are prone to bluster.

    The bible says (going from memory paraphrasing no doubt) (Quotes nonetheless) “My kingdom is not of this world. If it was of this world, then would my servants fight.”

    Consider this for a minute.

  • 71. John  |  February 24, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    The Denver Post has a poll on their website. “The Obama administration said Wednesday that a 1996 federal law banning same-sex marriage is unconstitutional. Do you think gay couples should have the same rights as straight couples and be allowed to marry?”

    So far, 58% for equality, 38% against, 4% undecided.

    Of course this should be taken with a grain of salt – it’s not exactly a scientific poll. But a few years ago, nothing like this would have happened.

    The times are a’changin.

    As for NOM, my message to them: You lost. The sooner you get out, the better you’ll look to your grandchildren.

  • 72. JonT  |  February 24, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    FYI: The link is

    The poll is on the right side of the main page.

  • 73. Ronnie  |  February 24, 2011 at 11:12 pm

    ROFL….Maggie gets owned again…<3…Ronnie:

    Yes Maggie Gallagher, you are bigoted and NOM is homophobic. Here’s why.

  • 74. Hank (NYC)  |  February 24, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    I'm still waiting to hear any of the h8trs to come up with a response to how they are hurt, impacted etc if same-sex marriage becomes mainstream.

    These are the same people that screem for freedoms yet somehow can't change the channel if there is something they don't like / not buy the magazine if they don't like it etc – but they don't want anyone else to have that freedom as well.

    Well I pay taxes and have Rights too!

  • 75. JoeRH  |  February 25, 2011 at 2:36 am


  • 76. Richard A. Jernigan  |  February 25, 2011 at 3:31 am

    That's too good for them, JoeRH. I say we turn the tables on the NOMbies and let them find out what we are going through every day!

  • 77. JoeRH  |  February 25, 2011 at 2:38 am

    Brian Brown calls out democrats for being irresponsible like leaving Wisconsin to avoid a vote. Does he even know WHY they did what they did? Probably not. Or maybe he just hates democrats no matter what they do. It's probably the latter. He's ignorant enough to think that way.

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