Equality On TrialNot just a decision, a follow-through

Not just a decision, a follow-through

April 8, 2011

By Adam Bink

By Adam Bink

Many today had expressed whether Louis’ decision to support civil marriage equality, and other intentions, were authentic.

Exhibit A: This morning, NOM’s Facebook page had 291,000 fans on its Facebook page which Louis helped put together and administer. After Louis was done, here’s what it looks like now:

149. Oops.

Louis also went on Sirius/XM radio to talk with Mike Signorile about the circumstances that led to his decision. Jeremy has the audio.

Not just a decision today — a Courageous one, as Arisha noted earlier. But a follow-through on telling his story and begin making up lost time. Good for Louis.

Honoring the Courage of Louis Marinelli Religion, P8TT and housekeeping

920868 CommentsNot+just+a+decision%2C+a+follow-through2011-04-08+21%3A30%3A03Adam+Bink

1. Ann S. | April 8, 2011 at 7:33 am

Fascinating.
2. JonT | April 8, 2011 at 9:22 am

Yeah – frankly I'm quite… not really sure actually.

I have some reading and listening to do. 🙂
3. Mackenzie | April 8, 2011 at 7:50 am

Bless you Louis!

I have a question though. Did the masses leave the page because of a change of heart, or was this a newly created page?
4. adambink | April 8, 2011 at 7:54 am

New.
5. Ronnie | April 8, 2011 at 7:51 am

: / ….Ronnie
6. Sagesse | April 8, 2011 at 7:55 am

Scribin'.
7. Franck | April 8, 2011 at 8:05 am

Aw, who are we going to sarcastically say “Hi!” to, now that Louis isn't on the opposite side anymore?

Joking, of course. Though the idea will take some time to get used to, I'm thankful for his change of heart. May many others follow, the sooner the better.

– Franck P. Rabeson
Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1386 days, as of today.
8. Felyx | April 8, 2011 at 8:24 am

I think we should still greet Louis. (Hi Louis!) It doesn't seem at all sarcastic now!
9. Nicole | April 9, 2011 at 1:25 am

Yeah, actually it seems to make even more sense now.
10. Kate | April 8, 2011 at 9:25 am

Tomas. (Hola.)
11. Phil L | April 8, 2011 at 11:28 pm

This might work: "Hi, new friend!"

I also agree with Kate. "Hola Tomas!"
12. AnonyGrl | April 9, 2011 at 2:08 am

We'll still say it… but now we will say "HI Louis… come on in, pull up a chair, have some cookies and MILK and join the discussion."
13. Alyson | April 8, 2011 at 8:09 am

I heard the XM interview with Louis this morning and he didn't mention her by name but he was crediting Arisha and the teams efforts. It really brought tears to my eyes to remember what that was like for her. I read all of Arisha's posts and had such admiration for her courage and self control to face these folks time and time again on all of our behalf. And this is such a nice pay off. One person at a time.

Now I am waiting for another installment of on the bus by anon girl. Front page please – don't want to miss it in comments!
14. AnonyGrl | April 9, 2011 at 2:11 am

It's in the middle of the first thread about this… the one called "Breaking News…NOM's Louis comes out for civil marriage equality…"
15. Felyx | April 8, 2011 at 8:22 am

Wow! I thought there would have been at least as many as some of the other similar sites. But this is almost nothing!

There are only so many locals that can attend rallies but the internet is enormous. This is not even 1/10 the number of out support on pro-gay sites!

Wow. If this is NOM honesty it bears to be seen what will shake out of the court cases.
16. Rhie | April 8, 2011 at 8:31 am

Interesting…
17. DaveP | April 8, 2011 at 8:57 am

For those of us who are not Facebook users, can someone explain what I'm seeing? It looks to me like it is still full of anti-gay stuff. If Louis is running the page, why doesn't it say anything about his recent decision to support civil marriage, and why are all the lies about adoption laws still there? Yes, the number of 'fans' has dropped from 291,000 to 149, but what does that mean? Have all of those people simultaneously decided to leave? Were they 'kicked out'? I don't understand…..
18. Michelle Evans | April 8, 2011 at 9:09 am

Excellent questions. As a non social media user myself, I have similar questions about how it all supposedly works.
19. Lewis | April 8, 2011 at 9:18 am

No, he was running NOMs page from his own personal account, so has now closed that account which the 291,000 people were on,
NOM now opened their own account (the one you see) so they can continue to spew their bile (but to a much smaller group now)
20. Felyx | April 8, 2011 at 9:19 am

Yes. The point was that the numbers originally represented seemed to not be 'refriending' themselves to the site. Considering how many of our own people friend the site in order to keep tabs it appears that the numbers originally posted are seriously exaggerated. This is important considering the number of email 'blasts' (mass mailers) where Brian Brown and Maggie Gallagher have enumerated their supporters and spoken of a 'silent majority' much in the same way that Governor Scott Walker claimed that his email folder was filled with supporters for what he was doing. (Only to be seriously called out on the farce later.)

Hope this helps. Ask more questions as there are others more knowledgeable than I.
21. Felyx | April 8, 2011 at 9:23 am

I guess I should further clarify… NOM may indeed get more supporters but the article was showing proof that LJM was indeed distancing himself from NOM by dropping the account (and thus all the old supposed friends) so that NOM proper could pick it back up (minus the 'silent majority').
22. Michelle Evans | April 8, 2011 at 9:34 am

Felyx,

Thanks for the clarifications about this. So it is basically saying that NOM is starting from scratch now that Louis has dumped his support. That's still wonderful news.

Many people here have expressed doubts about how sincere Louis has been in this, but certainly all evidence that I've seen, both here, on his own blog site, and elsewhere, all support that he is telling the truth. Unless and until he shows this conversion to equality to be somehow untrue, I will absolutely support him.

To Louis, and all others who also once worked against LGBT equality, and are now instead firmly on our side of history, I say THANK YOU!

This goes to show that the idea of winning over more people by simply being open and loving to everyone–allowing us to see us for the human beings we are–instead of trying to shout them down–has a great positive effect.
23. thoughtful | April 8, 2011 at 9:11 am

I don't understand either. Were all those fans bogus? Is 149 the true number of NOM fans?
24. Phil L | April 8, 2011 at 11:31 pm

A lot of them were pro-equality people who had "Liked" the page in order to post in the discussions on their wall. If you aren't a "member" you can't post (this is true for all Facebook group pages.) The page counter adds up the number of people who click the "Like" button, whether they truly support the cause or not.

It's a good bet that many of their "supporters" were never supporters to begin with.
25. Kate | April 8, 2011 at 9:28 am

NOMblog announcement of new FB page and response to Louis:

"As for Louis Marinelli, Brian Brown responded to his announcement he no longer favors protecting marriage this way:

"Louis Marinelli worked in a volunteer capacity as a bus driver during our summer marriage tour. Around this time, NOM began to pay him as a part-time consultant for helping us expand our internet reach. He has since chosen a different focus. We wish him well."
26. JonT | April 8, 2011 at 2:09 pm

heh, I was close 🙂
27. Gregory in Salt Lake | April 9, 2011 at 12:32 am

tx kate for info!
28. MJFargo for | April 8, 2011 at 10:06 am

Well, HELLO, LOUIS! I remember during the Civil Rights era in the 60's, many lights dawned on a whole number of people. And while sites such as this should be commended for helping educate (and console), it's those individuals–one by one–who make the difference,, and I'm proud Louis has seen the light and is himself speaking out.
29. Richard A. Jernigan | April 8, 2011 at 10:14 am

subbing
30. Richard A. Jernigan | April 8, 2011 at 10:18 am

trying again.
31. CGS | April 8, 2011 at 11:35 am

But Louis still has the original "Protect Marriage: One Man, One Woman" Facebook page, now set up as a "personal blog," and it has 291,358 fans as of now: https://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/oneman.onewom…

I don't see any real difference, except that NOM is no longer affiliated.
32. LCH | April 8, 2011 at 3:29 pm

I'm confused about this too. It's still accessible and has over 291K likes. Except that there is no way to comment and the last wall post was back in March. I see that the discussion section is now pro-equality though.

♀♀=♂♂=♀♂=∑♡
33. Phil L | April 8, 2011 at 11:34 pm

It looks like he purged the comments that were anything but "news articles" or something of that sort. There were a LOT of anti-gay posts on a daily basis (many calling us diseased, some even advocating murder.) Some of the more violent posts were deleted by the admins but not all of them.

One of the things that Louis even said regarding his change of mind had to do with the anti-gay bile being posted all over his page.
34. Alex | April 8, 2011 at 12:06 pm

I personally think this is a bit suspicious. I wouldn't trust him that quickly.
35. Ed | April 8, 2011 at 1:12 pm

If this has been posted, I'm sorry….If it hasn't, its quite interesting. And Bryan Brown seems a bit….wavering…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pieW1_-ntAU&fe…
36. Tigger | April 8, 2011 at 9:10 pm

I thought the point of the show was to take folks who are on one side of the issue and force them to do a 180 and argue for the other side. That would have been interesting. Otherwise this show sux and is much of the same BS and talking points. If I hear that fat face spew the same BS one more time I'm gonna hurl.
37. JonT | April 8, 2011 at 9:56 pm

I noticed it was some 45 minutes long, and decided I would just download it for later viewing instead.

But – if you are saying that this is just another opportunity for BS Brown to spew his crap, I think I will pass.
38. Russell Manaois | April 8, 2011 at 11:34 pm

Brian Brown looks like a slimmed down version of Chris Farley…thinking about this made me laugh throughout this "debate"
39. Gregory in Salt Lake | April 9, 2011 at 12:39 am

tx for posting! Having my sociologist hubby review too. As I watch, I'm trying to put myself in B.B's shoes, try to see it from his perspective w/out judgement…tricky task as I disagree w/ practically everything he says.
40. Ronnie | April 9, 2011 at 2:01 am

Jeremy from Good As You has dissected the debate a little. I'm still weighing the pros & cons of watching BB's pompous & benighted vitriol….
http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2011/04/watc…

It is very much clear, for me anyway, that BB's education has failed him entirely & his understanding of reality is so far into LA LA land that Tinky Winky is about to slap her with his magical bag, saying "Bitch! There is more fantasy in your thunder-head then in my magical red bag"

<3…Ronnie
41. Gregory in Salt Lake | April 9, 2011 at 2:14 am

LOVE your post! : D
42. Ronnie | April 21, 2011 at 12:31 am

; ) ….Ronnie
43. Ray in MA | April 8, 2011 at 1:25 pm

From current NOM FB:

Brian Brown responded to his announcement he no longer favors protecting marriage this way: "Louis Marinelli worked in a volunteer capacity as a bus driver during our summer marriage tour. Around this time, NOM began to pay him as a part-time consultant for helping us expand our internet reach. He has since chosen a different focus. We wish him well."..
http://www.facebook.com/NationForMarriage
44. rf | April 8, 2011 at 2:52 pm

Its a new page. And most of the people posting in it so far are pro-gay equality
45. JohnfromNL | April 8, 2011 at 5:01 pm

subscribing
46. Michael | April 8, 2011 at 7:26 pm

God bless Louis and help him stay out of Satan’s clutches…now that he’s managed to get free of them.
47. Sagesse | April 8, 2011 at 8:00 pm

House Judiciary Subcommittee Chairman Schedules “Defending Marriage” Hearing

http://www.metroweekly.com/poliglot/2011/04/house-judiciary-subcommittee-ch.html

The government is hours away from shutting down, there is no agreement on a budget because the issue standing in the way is yet another ultimatum about removing women’s right to reproductive health care, but they need to have another hearing about gay people.
48. JonT | April 8, 2011 at 1:05 pm

Jobs. Economy. Pft.

Lets talk more about those evil homos.

/rolling eyes
49. JonT | April 8, 2011 at 8:02 pm

So I've been spending more time this morning reading the As Good As You post on Louis Marinelli's change of heart in more detail.

In it, he references (along with the Atlanta protest) a post by a blogger, RJ, that helped change his mind.

I had not read that post before (the Internet is a big place :), but I found it very powerful, and encourage you to read it too:
http://fightingforcake.com/1023/to-louis-marinell…

In it, along with addressing Louis' previous anti-gay statements, he lists the '10 points' of his gay agenda, which I will repost here:

'…
8. And I will outline my agenda (this is MY agenda, not some monolithic “gay agenda”) clearly and honestly (my ten point agenda):

i. I wish to see the full repeal of DADT. Gay men and women share locker room and sleeping facilities with heterosexual men and women all the time. Even in close quarters, we are generally more accustomed to sharing these facilities with people we may or may not be attracted to for much longer and are often more civil and polite. The same cannot be said of straight men if they suddenly had to share these facilities with straight women. The only reason I am not in the military today is that I refused to lie when enlisting via ROTC.

ii. I want to transform society to a point where we live in a nation where LGBT youth or perceived-gay youth are free from harassment and assault from their peers, family, and “friends”. Without irrational claims, there is a very clear connection between social hostility and depression in LGBT teens that often results in suicide. I want to see the complete abandon of the word “bullying” for the appropriate words “harassment” and “assault”.

iii. I wish to live in a world where I can walk down the street of any city holding my boyfriend’s hand without people yelling “faggot” or assaulting us. I’ve been assaulted once myself. I don’t wish a repeat experience simply because I love a man instead of a woman.

iv. I want to live in a society where gay men and women are not fired from their jobs or kicked out of their homes for being gay. It happens and it shouldn’t.

v. I am a gay man who is HIV negative. My boyfriend is also HIV negative and we are monogamous. My mother has a heart condition that requires she have constant surgery and often needs blood transfusions. We are both universal donors, which means a low available blood supply for her. I would like the ability to donate blood to my mother in the case of an emergency situation since I am the only other family member who matches her blood type. I am forbidden by law because I am a gay man. Please note that the blood supply is actively monitored for the HIV virus. Lifting this ban would increase the blood donor supply at low risk.

vi. I would absolutely love to see the HIV epidemic end through the discovery of a vaccine/cure. Until one is developed, I would like to see a crack down on testing – requiring every physical exam to include an HIV blood test for everyone, despite whether they are gay, straight, virgin, or whore. I want to see antiquated bathhouses shut down and a law forbidding the filming and distribution of gay and straight pornography where condoms are not used.

vii. I want to live in a society where the government that I pay taxes to, just like you, will treat my significant other and me as more than glorified roommates. I want the ability to live anywhere in the nation and have the state and federal government recognize that I am not in a “domestic partnership” or “civil union” or housemates with the man I love. I’d like the ability to share my health insurance with him, to visit him and make uncontested medical decisions for him, to co-adopt and raise children without parents so that they don’t have to live out what should be the best years of their lives alone and without paternal love, and to inevitably put a ring on his finger and call him my husband without being questioned or ridiculed by strangers.

viii. I want to live in a society where I am free from religious persecution. My religious beliefs are so in that they do not judge or place restrictions on my romantic relationship with my boyfriend. I feel that by enforcing laws according to the religious beliefs of larger religions is, in fact, a very real replica of the religious persecution our founding fathers sought to escape. The laws of our land should not reflect the establishments of one particular religion/social order over those of others.

ix. I’d love to live in a world free from unnecessary social conflict such as this. Marriage equality is just that – the opening of civil marriage to others despite innate sexual orientation. It in no way, shape, or form harms, prevents, or discourages rational heterosexual men and women from marrying. I will one day marry the man I love. My sisters are both planning on getting married to the men they love. The thought of my future marriage doesn’t change anything for them. There are no consequences.

x. Lastly, I want to live in a world where I do not have to face those that lie about me, slander me, or reduce me to half-citizenship. Our government is established for our equal protection. It causes very real and avoidable harm to gay couples/families for our government to be in the business of picking and choosing which households it will give over 1000+ rights, benefits, protections, and responsibilities to. This fight for marriage equality will favor equality in the end. I think you and I both agree that we’re sick of fighting this fight. Given that my boyfriend, whom I love, and I will be the ones harmed and the ones without, can’t we simply agree to stop fighting it? Have your free speech all you want, but the moment you influence that in any way, shape, or form to change the way our government treats me, you cross a very dangerous and, from my faith-perspective, extremely immoral line.

That is my agenda. Is there anything particularly “gay” about it?
'

That's my Gay Agenda™ too. Beautifully said RJ.

So let it be written, so let it be done.
☮
50. BK | April 8, 2011 at 8:36 pm

Love it!
DADT will be dead by the end of the summer, right?
51. JonT | April 8, 2011 at 8:59 pm

Hopefully certification will come mid summer at the latest.

After certification, there is a 60 day wait before it's gone for good.

Why the 60 day wait you ask? Just because, I suppose 🙂

I'll be so glad when that shit is gone for good.
52. Rhie | April 9, 2011 at 6:32 am

Looks like a beautifully written human rights agenda to me. Everyone should have this on their wall. We should bury every rep and every and senator under this until they get it.
53. Sagesse | April 8, 2011 at 10:57 pm

"Estimates also have a political value, persuading elected officials that a constituency is large enough to make a difference in elections. The nine million LGBT estimate from the Williams Institute report is equal to the number of people 65 and older who are military veterans; and it’s greater than the number of teachers (7 million) and the estimated number of stay-at-home moms in the U.S. (5 million). The 3.5 percent LGBT population is twice that of the percent of adults who identify as Mormon (1.7 percent)"

"Gates noted that data concerning same-sex couples collected during the 2010 U.S. Census will be released in June and will be rolled out on a state-by-state basis over the course of the summer."

LGBTs comprise 3.5 percent of U.S. adult population
http://www.keennewsservice.com/2011/04/08/lgbts-c…

Apply that 3.5% to the population under 18 as well to get a sense of how many are affected by state sponsored discrimination.
54. Sagesse | April 8, 2011 at 11:14 pm

That would be another 2.6 million.
55. Sagesse | April 9, 2011 at 3:53 am

Read this. Testimony of a different kind.

Gay people count, so why not count them correctly?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/gay-people…
56. Kate | April 9, 2011 at 12:11 am

Time for some donations to Courage Campaign in Louis's name — talk about courage!
57. Sagesse | April 9, 2011 at 1:25 am

Navy Drops Dismissal Of Tate Grad Sailor Found In Bunk With Another Male
http://www.northescambia.com/?p=50729
58. Gregory in Salt Lake | April 9, 2011 at 3:25 am

excellent!
59. Sagesse | April 9, 2011 at 1:36 am

EDITORIAL: Obama’s new ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ policy
Pentagon prepares to welcome recruits to the New Gay Army
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/8/ob…

As the recent Wal-Mart case showed, when it comes to objectionable speech and harassment in the workplace, the employer gets to set the standards for acceptable behaviour, not the employee. The military is a workplace.
60. chris | April 9, 2011 at 2:28 am

It seemed Bryan Brown got the most time on this show. And while the other Brian made good points, I have to admit that i am frustrated that nobody is shooting down NOM's talking points. For example, "The fundamental purpose of marriage as the union of a man and a woman is to connect children to their biological parents." The question we should all be asking Bryan is, "THEN WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU WANT TO SHUT DOWN ALL THE ADOPTION AGENCIES????!!!" They keep screaming about "christian adoption agencies being forced to shut down because of their opposition to same sex parents." But if the purpose of marriage is to connect children to their biological parents, then THEY SHOULD BE TRYING TO SHUT DOWN ADOPTION AGENCIES IN GENERAL. But they aren't, because that argument is a LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sombody PLEASE point that out to Bryan the next time you see him.
61. Sagesse | April 9, 2011 at 2:29 am

Louis's defection is getting some serious coverage beyond the LGBT media. At first I thought they would be able to ignore it :).

NOM Strategist, Louis J. Marinelli, Declares Support For Same-Sex Marriage
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/09/nom-stra…
62. Sagesse | April 9, 2011 at 3:30 am

'They' being NOM.
63. Phil L | April 9, 2011 at 6:16 am

I posted this on the FreedomFighters4Equality Facebook page, and figured it applied here (and particularly to your comment Sagesse):

Somehow I think that Louis "coming out" (so to speak) will have a much more positive effect on progress than we might realize. Brian Brown is downplaying it, of course, but it might serve as a real eye opener to many opponents and may actually make them start questioning just why they are against our equality.

I think that people who know of NOM and who they are/what they stand for see or hear Louis' change of heart it might actually have a huge impact; especially the way he expressed it (emphasizing the fact that we are REAL PEOPLE and not faceless political enemies to be destroyed.)
64. JeffreyRO5 | April 9, 2011 at 6:28 am

Did everyone know that Brian Brown gets paid a salary of $154,000/year to run NOM?! Isn't that outrageous for a teeny "non-profit"??? For that kind of money, who wouldn't advocate a public policy that hurts gays and lesbians, and their children?!!
65. Sagesse | April 9, 2011 at 6:40 am

Not sure I'd call a $10 million a year bank account teeny. At least it doesn't feel that way to the people across the country that it's aimed at.
66. JeffreyRO5 | April 9, 2011 at 6:51 am

NOM employs like, 5 people I bet. Yes, I realize the Mormon and Catholic churches are quite generous with them, to reward them for doing the dirty work of hate-mongering, but keeping a firewall up, protecting the churches. Still, $154,000/year is shocking and calls into question if he actually believes what he advocates, or if he's just doing it for the money. And I think it matters.
67. Sagesse | April 9, 2011 at 7:40 am

He believes what he advocates, and he's doing it for the money. Power is a drug, and his masters give him money to spend and pay him well to hide them from view while promoting their agenda. Maggie has drunk the Kool Aid too. Zealots with the means to make a name for themselves.
68. Bob Barnes | April 10, 2011 at 12:58 am

Hey folks,

Louis has a couple more months to go in Russia, and has given up his steady income for us. If you can spare a few bucks, please go to Louis’s page and hit the DONATE button.

Thanks!!!!!
http://louisjmarinelli.com/