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Open thread


This is an open thread to discuss, among other things, the county clerks in several states who are defying the Supreme Court’s ruling.

Also, the US government will ensurefull access to Social Security and veterans’ benefits after the ruling.


  • 1. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:15 am

    As Previously mentioned… My Dream Cast for the 20th Century Fox Movie


    Clarence Thomas… Danny Glover
    Notorious RBG… Helen Miren
    Elena Kagan… Melissa McCarthy
    Scaly Scalia…Jeff Garlin (agified)
    SotoMayor…Belita Moreno
    John Roberts… Matt Damon
    Anthony Kennedy… Jason Statham (agified)
    Stephen Breyer….George Segal
    Sammy Alito…Clint Howard

    Mr. Obergefell….Ben Affleck (agified)
    Mr. Obergefell's Husband… Brad Pitt (agified)
    Mary Bonauto …Drew Barrymore
    Attorney for the States John J. Bursch … Justin Long
    Evan Wofson…. Sean Astin (agified)
    Maggie Gallagher… Jabba the Hutt (CGI)

    Barrack Obama… Kevin Hart
    The Solicitor General… Tom Skerritt
    Richard Hodges.. Rick Hurst
    Michelle Obama… Ru Paul

    and…there you go! I should'a been a casting director.

  • 2. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:26 am

    and to Play some of the EOT Players:

    VIRick…Zac Efron
    Notorious RnL2008 aka Rose… Rosie O'Donnel
    Tony MinasTirith… Robert Downy Jr.
    IanBirmingham… Justin Beiber
    DaveCA… Chris Pratt
    Wolf of Raging Fire… Nicolas Cage
    Mike_Baltimore… Kaitlyn Jenner
    Scottie… Taylor Lautner

  • 3. weaverbear  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:31 am

    How about Ellen and Portia for Rose and her lovely wife instead?

  • 4. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:35 am

    Will definitely keep them in mind if Rosie is unavailable. Though I also have Rosie Perez as a back up to Rosie O'Donnel.

  • 5. RemC  |  July 9, 2015 at 6:42 pm

    Tony, don't forget sfbob for a bit part assignment. And StraightDave. And JayJohnson. AND Raga. Actually, the entire courtroom could be played by actors representing EOT'ers. Someone could be Art Lien, the courtroom artist, and we have to guards. Who likes to dress up in uniform?

    And, OMG, we've got to have Evan Wolfson played by somebody!

  • 6. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 11:34 pm

    Thanks RemC.

    We already have cast Sean Astin (to be Agified) as Evan Wolfson. Of course the father of the modern ME movement will have a role.

    So….Lets see
    StraightDave… Ryan Reynolds
    JayJohnson… Toby McGuire
    sfbob… David Schwimmer
    the inimitable Raga…Channing Tatum if Raga is a boy. Scarlet Johansan if Raga is a girl.
    and of course RemC…. Chris Evans if you're a boy. Cameron Diaz if you're a girl 🙂

    *Breaking News*
    Ricky Martin cast to play DrBriCA.

    All actors will be made up and agified if and where necessary. At various interludes in the movie, some of the EOTer's more prescient and apropos comments will be read as in thoughtful reflection.

    This is turning out to be an all star cast.

    Tentativly considering Meryl Streep as Sandy Steir in the small background part (if Ms. Streep will take a small role). We tried to get Jamie Lee Curtis for Kris Perry, but Jamie was already booked for another project. The role of Kris Perry has been given to Kristen Wiig.

    Also as part of the back story:
    Paul Katami… Freddie Smith
    Jeff Zarillo – Milo Ventimiglia

  • 7. VIRick  |  July 10, 2015 at 1:15 am

    "*Breaking News*
    Ricky Martin cast to play DrBriCA"

    Ooooooooh, an intensely serious hottie playing an intensely serious hottie!!!

  • 8. davepCA  |  July 10, 2015 at 11:00 am

    I am petitioning the producers to cast Benedict Cumberbatch to play the role of EoT's 'Brandall'.

  • 9. RemC  |  July 10, 2015 at 12:54 pm

    YES! We've got to get Benedict in the movie somehow or other.

  • 10. RemC  |  July 10, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    I'm a boy, Tony, and it's kinda freaky how you picked the one actor in Hollywood I look most like. Don't let him shave his chest before the camera rolls, however!

  • 11. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 11, 2015 at 2:16 am

    I'm not just pulling names out of a hat Rem, there is a science and art to my casting decisions. Though it does help if I know if you're a boy or a girl.

  • 12. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 11, 2015 at 2:25 am

    You Sir, looking like Chris Evans, are no boy. You sir are ALL MAN! 100% USDA Prime Choice! If you weren't taken, I'd ask you to marry me.

    And it's written in his contract…Chris may NOT shave his chest.

  • 13. Steve27516  |  July 10, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    And if there might be a small supporting role for me (mostly, facial reactions in bemused cut-away shots), you might consider David Hyde Pierce to play the part. I get that comment a lot. Also, Martin Short. Just sayin'.

  • 14. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 11, 2015 at 2:27 am

    We'll get Martin Short…though I was leaning towards Jay Baruchel for you.

  • 15. davepCA  |  July 10, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    I've had the good fortune to meet Raga. I think he should be played by Indian actor John Abraham (unless you object, Raga).

  • 16. StraightDave  |  July 10, 2015 at 2:40 pm

    who the efffff is Ryan Reynolds? I obviously don't run in the right circles.
    But I'm gonna have to vet him somehow….give him a gay test or something.

  • 17. davepCA  |  July 10, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    Well for what it's worth, I'm gay and I say the guy is pretty dang handsome. Trust me, you could do a lot worse than to be portrayed by him.

  • 18. StraightDave  |  July 10, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    Edit: (ok I'm bored today) but 'Ryan Reynolds' sounds like such an obvious made-up Hollywood stage name for some soap opera hunk like Rock Hudson. So obviously he's gotta be "as bent as a nine-bob note" as some Brit commentary I read recently opining on Lord Coe.
    Disclaimer: I don't write it, I just read it, (and maybe quote) .
    /end boredom

    In all honesty, being played by a gay guy does NOT offend me one tiny little bit. You all surely must know that by now!! In fact, its helps to express some of my warped amusement about this whole grand affair. I would absolutely love to have that as an inside joke among us until the credits rolled at the end.

    "Straight Dave – Ryan Reynolds (who's gay in real life, but who can tell)"

  • 19. davepCA  |  July 10, 2015 at 3:05 pm

    Oh THAT kind of a 'gay test'. Nope, it's pretty clear that he's straight. I thought you meant a test to see if the gays would approve of the casting choice. Yup, I approve : )

  • 20. VIRick  |  July 10, 2015 at 3:23 pm

    " I thought you meant a test to see if the gays would approve of the casting choice. Yup, I approve : ) "

    LOL Except that the "other" test is much more exciting!

  • 21. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 11, 2015 at 2:19 am

    Ryan Renolds is an A List star, married to Blake Lively ( A female), and they just had their first child.

  • 22. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 11, 2015 at 2:29 am

    He is pretty dang handsome…right after Chris Pratt, Ricky Martin, Eddie Cibrian, Channing Tatum and Matt Bomer.

  • 23. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 11, 2015 at 2:18 am

    Ooops, typo. Got that backwards

    Paul Katami… Milo Ventimiglia
    Jeff Zarillo… Freddie Smith

  • 24. RnL2008  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:06 am

    Thank you…..we at least share the same wedding anniversary!!!

    I think I've been violated and I'm NOT sure why……..<sniffles and tears>

  • 25. VIRick  |  July 10, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    No, Rose. That's a good one. Tony has a wonderfully excellent "feel" for character, and that one fits, rough edges and all!

    I can already hear Rosie O'Donnell shouting over the crowd, "Ya can't fix stupid!!!" LOL

  • 26. RnL2008  |  July 10, 2015 at 1:35 pm

    Alright…….fine…..she can play me, but Portia HAS to play the wife….deal?

  • 27. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:47 am

    and Matt Baum of Marriage News Watch… Adam Lisagor (Adam is the EXTREMELY annoying actor from the CenturyLink and TruCar commercials)

  • 28. davepCA  |  July 9, 2015 at 12:37 pm

    Hey! I'm Chris Pratt! Nice! : )

  • 29. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    Technically…Chris Pratt will play YOU. 🙂

  • 30. davepCA  |  July 9, 2015 at 1:04 pm

    Opps… Hey! Chris Pratt is me! : )

  • 31. VIRick  |  July 9, 2015 at 2:08 pm

    Dave, no one could adequately play YOU! I think you should play yourself and become the next new hot Hollywood star!

  • 32. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 3:12 pm

    Any cast changes must be re-approved by me and Peter Jackson.

  • 33. RnL2008  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:05 am

    Oh Please……I thought you liked me Tony……….Really Rosie O'Donnel????

  • 34. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:17 am

    What's wrong with Rosie O'Donnel? She's a funny and very opinionated and dedicated mom? I like you… and Rosie. How 'bout Rosie Perez then?

  • 35. RnL2008  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:21 am

    Umm, the part about her being overly opinionated……..and besides, her New York/Brooklyn accent is far from mine!!!

  • 36. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:30 am

    She's not "overly opinionated". And she is an actress…as a professional, she can effect any accent…not sure what yours is though. Haven't you seen her in Stakeout? Hilarious!

    But we can go with Rosie Perez (also with the apropos accent), or perhaps Wendi McLendon-Covey? How about Julie Bowen?

  • 37. RnL2008  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:36 am

    Well, being from California, I don't think I have an accent, but folks who I have visited in New jersey would disagree with me……lol!!!

    I'm just joking with ya tony…….though I do think Ellen and Portia would do a much better job….hint, hint……lol!!!

  • 38. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:43 am

    I'll talk to Peter Jackson about it. If he's ok with it, I'm ok with it.
    Don't know how I'll break it to Rosie though…

  • 39. RnL2008  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:45 am

    Oh, I'm sure she'll be okay…..and if not, I'll send her a nice bottle of something.

    By the way, my avatar is an actual picture of us on our wedding day:-)

  • 40. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:52 am

    You and your lovely wife Rent Stakeout this weekend. If you don't like her in it, we'll go with Rosie Perez or Julie Bowen.

    Lovely couple btw. If I ever find a husband, I'll make out wedding day my avatar too. But at my age, I have a better chance of being killed by a terrorist!

  • 41. RnL2008  |  July 10, 2015 at 8:11 am

    Maybe we will. As for your age, NEVER give up on finding the right person.

    I spent 12 1/2 years with a woman I loved, when she passed, I grieved her passing for almost 5 years……..I was lucky enough to find Lee, who is my soul mate(believe it or not) on

    Age is irrelevant as I was in my early 40's when we met and in August, we will be celebrating our 7th wedding anniversary and over 8 1/2 years together:-)

  • 42. RnL2008  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:10 am

    Just in case ANYONE is interested…… avatar is of my wife and I…….she is the one in the wedding dress!!!

  • 43. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 10:13 am

    Directed by Peter Jackson
    Score by John Williams
    Film Love Song/End Credits – When Love Calls Your Name; Cher

  • 44. almostfamous734  |  July 9, 2015 at 12:22 pm

    Oh my god, thank you for this. I was laughing the whole time I read this. Melissa McCarthy as Elena Kagan is a personal favorite choice for me.

  • 45. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    Melissa McCarthy would be the PERFECT Elena Kagan wouldn't she… 🙂

  • 46. AndresM11  |  July 9, 2015 at 12:34 pm

    Is there any part available for Meryl Streep? I just love that woman hehehe I guess she could play April deBoer 🙂

  • 47. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    I had considered Streep and Cate Blanchett for Sotomayor, but settled on Belita Moreno. Was looking for a part for Streep…that is a good Idea.

    Here are some more..
    Brian Brown… James Corden
    Pam Bondi… Brittney Spears
    Anyone else I'm missing from this saga?

  • 48. AndresM11  |  July 9, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    Will Sutton and his partner-in-bigotry Cook appear in the movie or will they just be ignored and thrown into the bin of unenjoyable characters??

  • 49. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 1:07 pm

    Their parts will be so small….they'll just be played by SAG Extras. No big name stars.

    However… Perhaps…for backstory:
    Vaughn Walker…Dylan McDermott (agified)
    The Governator…Himself (Arnold Schwarzenegger)
    Kamala Harris…Halle Berry
    Gavin Newsome… Steve Carrell

  • 50. VIRick  |  July 9, 2015 at 2:23 pm

    Tony, if you're doing Pam Bondi (and Britney Spears, as the ditz, is perfect!) then you'll have to include Jim Brenner who cross-combines being his real-life self with being an EoT poster, the only lead plaintiff in any marriage case who also posted here. The scene of Pam Bondi's re-inauguration ceremony on the state capitol steps being totally up-staged by the multiple same-sex marriages, including Jim Brenner's presence, occurring at the county courthouse immediately across the street on Florida's first day is precious.

    Plus we have to include April De Boer and Jayne Rouse's marriage ceremony, officiated by Judge Friedman, the very same judge who overturned Michigan's ban by ruling in their favor.

  • 51. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    You're right.
    Jim Brenner… Craig T. Nelson
    Chuck Jones (Jim's Husband)… Martin Freeman
    April DeBoer…Sharon Gless
    Jayne Rouse…Jane Curtin
    Judge Friedman…Robert Duvall

    I take it you're fine with the actor portraying you? Zac Efron…

    Anyone else?

    Oh…and btw…Edie Windsor will have a cameo as herself.
    And in related news. Justin Bieber is being replaced
    IanBirmingham… Jim Parsons

    And the voice of Maggie Gallagher/Jabba the Hutt (CGI)… Alex Borstein

  • 52. ianbirmingham  |  July 9, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    Bad casting choice. Try this one…

    Ian Birmingham……. Alan Turing

  • 53. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:52 pm

    Alan Turing is dead. Not an option.
    Jim Parsons is final.

  • 54. ianbirmingham  |  July 10, 2015 at 6:39 am

    Alan Turing (via CGI animation)

  • 55. VIRick  |  July 9, 2015 at 10:22 pm

    Ian, Jim Parsons is really cute. Are you that cute, too?

  • 56. ianbirmingham  |  July 10, 2015 at 6:41 am

    My spouse thinks I am 🙂

  • 57. VIRick  |  July 10, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    Ian, I love it! That's a perfect answer!

  • 58. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 11, 2015 at 2:34 am

    Which Spouse? All of them?

  • 59. VIRick  |  July 11, 2015 at 3:12 am

    OMG! That's cruel! Quite apt, but very cruel. LOL

  • 60. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 11, 2015 at 3:20 am

    Well, when the Supreme Court votes and nationalizes bigamy next year, Rick… Birmingham's gaggle of spouses can hold a convention meeting and vote on it.

    Just call me the Scalia of EoT.

  • 61. VIRick  |  July 9, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    "I take it you're fine with the actor portraying you? Zac Efron.

    Absolutely, plus I'm certain he'll do the intimate full-frontal bedroom scene, just for the gratuitous display of it all. So, make sure that that gets worked into the script, just before the happy ending, but somewhere shortly after the exchange of the "Superman" rings..

  • 62. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:58 pm

    The director has made an artistic choice to change the rings to "UnderDog" Rings for enhanced story telling. This is a family friendly movie… rated PG.. no gratuitous nudity. Think of the children in the audience.

  • 63. VIRick  |  July 9, 2015 at 10:18 pm

    Tony! I just realized something insanely profound, now that you've mentioned "underdog." I took a closer look at your avatar,– and lo and behold,– I was simply stunned. I have a little dog who looks JUST like that!!!

    He's yappy, semi-wild, has no behavior whatsoever, and truly loves to sneak up from behind and nip you when you least expect it. Plus, he likes having his crotch rubbed.

    Oh wait! They say dogs and their owners are a total reflection of each other.

  • 64. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 11:22 pm

    Tony! I just realized something insanely profound, …

    You know what that means don't you….?!

    And I have a dog that looks like that when he was younger (he's now 17ish) and another one that looked just like that, but he (Calvin) passed away in 2012.

  • 65. AndresM11  |  July 10, 2015 at 9:28 am

    I guess that might be a sign that the "Kingdom" of Minas Tirith and the Virgin Islands are meant to merge someday *-*

  • 66. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 11, 2015 at 2:37 am

    Very prescient observation Andres.
    The Kingdom of Minas Tirith (Watch Tower of Truth) will absorb the Virgin Islands. It shall come to pass… and the Two shall become One.

  • 67. VIRick  |  July 11, 2015 at 3:10 am

    Tony, I'm really enjoying this now!!!

  • 68. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 11, 2015 at 3:21 am

    As you should. As you should.

  • 69. David_Las_Cruces_NM  |  July 9, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    R O F L M F A O

  • 70. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 2:49 pm


    David_Las_Cruces_NM… Jesse Tyler Ferguson

  • 71. David_Las_Cruces_NM  |  July 9, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    JTF is way too hot. Get Wilford Brimley but with Harlan Sanders' facial hair and a lot more S&P up top.

  • 72. weaverbear  |  July 9, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    NO – I want Jesse Tyler Ferguson! (That or an agified Rupert Grint!. Sadly, Wilford Brimley might be more appropriate given my size, but dammit, you're not giving away my red hair to someone else!) :{)

  • 73. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 10:04 pm

    JTF for weaverbear.
    Wilfred Brimley is unavailable so
    as David Las Cruces… Bruce Boxlietner (agified as necessary)

  • 74. weaverbear  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:48 am

    Just an observation.

    Just saw a commercial for Expedia; there was a segment that featured a male couple emerging from a taxi in front of a SF Victorian, holding a tiny infant & being greeted by what are either family or friends. To see an image of our community in this light, something there 'matter of factly', taking us from invisibility to a rendering of a couple next door, brought a tear to my eye. An image like this is so valuable to the young among us. Had this been in the media when I was in my teens, it would have gone a long way in making me feel less isolated. It would have been a clear sign that I was not the only one, something most of us of my generation remember feeling when we were young.

  • 75. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 10:07 am

    I know what you mean. I've been seeing a few advertisements like this…Amazon, where the guys says his husband is also getting them drinks. And Tylenlol…though I didn't like the Man Bun. Also Tiffany & Co had a very sweet couple getting engaged. I've also noticed more and more gay couples in daytime soaps over the last few years…. Will and Sonny (WilSon), Christian and Oliver (Chrolli) , Syed and Christian (Chyed) , Luke and Noah (Nuke), Kyle and Oliver (Kish). Not to mention all the prime time couples. I wish these couples and these representations of couples would have been on the screen when I was growing up. All we had back then was Jack Tripper (fake gay), Jodi Dallas and Steven Carrington. 🙁 And now we even have 13 yo's Jude and Conner. We've come a long way baby.

  • 76. almostfamous734  |  July 9, 2015 at 12:34 pm

    Just last night I was catching up on The Daily Show via Comedy Central's website and it played a brief AT&T commercial showing a younger gay male couple taking selfies with a smartphone while one kissed the other's cheek and so on. It ended with the phrase "Live Proud." It made me smile pretty big. That kind of imagery can go a long way with our younger generations. I think we are already seeing the start of a huge cultural impact from the Obergefell ruling. We are entering a whole new era of positive media representation.

  • 77. davepCA  |  July 9, 2015 at 12:35 pm

    Have you seen the Wells Fargo commercial with the lesbian couple learning ASL and then meeting the hearing impaired little girl they are adopting? Really nice.

  • 78. ebohlman  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:36 pm

    That's the one that caused Franklin Graham to pull his money out of Wells Fargo (and put it into a bank that was a major sponsor of Florida Pride events; there's no escaping us!).

  • 79. davepCA  |  July 9, 2015 at 11:11 pm

    Yes, in the ominous words of Lewis Black – "They walk among you!!!"

  • 80. StraightDave  |  July 10, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    Well, at the rate things are going, I almost expect scientists to suddenly say that 90% of humanity is gay and the rest of us are lying.

  • 81. DJSNOLA  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:52 am

    I will say one thing I never noticed til recently is the amount of open animus some judges have for the gay community. Surely, their ability to judge a case is compromised and they should be either removed or recused from these cases. I'm not sure how exactly this could be done or should be handled but there is no doubt animus has , does and will affect how justice is handled in these courts especially when it comes to LGBT defendants or plaintiffs.

  • 82. JayJonson  |  July 9, 2015 at 9:56 am

    Yes, I was surprised as well at some of the open animus. But I note that the worst were from judges who were appointed as very partisan picks or, in the case of state judges, elected. The a–hole Louisiana Supreme Court judge actually ran on a platform opposing same-sex marriage. That certainly should violate judicial ethics, but then "ethics" and "Louisiana" seldom go together, particularly in politics.

  • 83. DJSNOLA  |  July 9, 2015 at 10:20 am

    its a reason why we have to get heightened scrutiny as a group. I do have a feeling these religious freedom cases will be the issue that will force clarity.

  • 84. Raga  |  July 9, 2015 at 11:49 am

    Could the AL Supreme Court resist the US Supreme Court like the WI Supreme Court did in the mid-nineteenth-century?

  • 85. DJSNOLA  |  July 9, 2015 at 2:18 pm

    I dont see this as anything other than a hail mary. Basically, the clerks will decide who to adhere by and any intelligent person(yes thats assuming alot) will know who wins this. Regardless, most of the supreme court would quickly clarify this anyways. Save for maybe Scalia I dont think any Justices are in the mood to have their authority second guessed.

  • 86. Raga  |  July 10, 2015 at 12:49 am

    Yes, but that's the point – of course the U.S. Supreme Court is going to assert its authority over the AL Supreme Court, just like they did back then with WI. It's just that these parties are arguing that the AL Supreme Court can ignore that like WI did! Seems idiotic, I know, but it seems like there's precedent for this kind of lawlessness!

  • 87. SteveThomas1  |  July 10, 2015 at 2:08 am

    In the run-up to the US Civil War one of the big issues was the question of "nullification" — whether states had the right (despite the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution) to "opt out" of compliance with federal law, either (a) in part by refusing to comply with federal mandates or (b) in whole by seceding from the Union. This was one of the issues over which the Civil War was expressly fought, with the Union maintaining that states could neither secede nor otherwise flout federal law. At enormous cost in lives, the Union won that war, and the question of nullification was supposed to have been definitively decided at that time.

    From this perspective, an attempt just a couple of years before the Civil War by abolitionists to use the Southern doctrine of nullification to achieve results that would have been anathema to the South was not surprising. But it is definitely not actual legal precedent. (No more so than Bull Connor's attacks with police dogs and fire hoses are legal precedent, despite the fact that it happened.) The folks trotting it out are doing something very much like citing Plessy v. Ferguson as if it were good law.

  • 88. Raga  |  July 10, 2015 at 4:18 am

    Oh I didn't mean "precedent" in the legal sense. Just that it has happened before. There was nothing legal about that precedent – the WI Supreme Court's resistance to the U.S. Supreme Court at that time, I'm sure, was illegal. But how does one deal with that? How do you take the court to court?

  • 89. SteveThomas1  |  July 10, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    A while ago (maybe a decade ago? – can't recall and too lazy to look it up) Roy Moore was engaged in a battle with a federal court about his Ten Commandments monument, which he'd installed in the lobby of his court. (I think he was the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court then, too.) The federal court issued an injunction requiring him to remove it, and the Moore was impeached and removed from office to prevent the specter of US Marshals taking the guy to the pokey. His stance, however, was popular enough to get him elected again at the next election.

    I doubt the Alabama Supreme Court really wants to get into a pissing contest with the federal court system, a contest which they would certainly lose. But it does remain to be seen precisely how this contretemps will develop and be resolved.

    (The above is reconstructed entirely from memory, so it may well be wrong in significant respects.)

  • 90. StraightDave  |  July 10, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    Now wait just a cotton-pickin minute!

    The AL Supreme Court is asking bigoted anti-gay advocacy groups for legal advice on how to fuck up a SCOTUS ruling?????????
    Am I still on Earth?

    "Asked by the Alabama Supreme Court for advice on what to do next on same-sex marriage, two conservative advocacy groups in the state have urged both direct and indirect resistance"

    Roy Moore, you're gonna have one hell of an epitaph.

  • 91. RnL2008  |  July 9, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    I hope that the Department of Veteran's Affairs DOESN'T take 2 years to implement these new requirements from the Obergefell ruling as they took to implement the new requirements after the Windsor ruling.

  • 92. DJSNOLA  |  July 9, 2015 at 2:20 pm

    Speaking of movies, I would love a film directed by Quentin Tarantino that was a sort of gay version of Inglorious Basterds… where gay guys could get revenge against all the bigots. Could be lots of fun! lol

  • 93. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 9, 2015 at 5:58 pm

    And I want an Epic Love Story like Titanic or Twilight.. with a happy ending and the lead star crossed lovers played by Brad Pitt and Ben Affleck, or Ryan Reynolds and Channng Tatum.

  • 94. DrBriCA  |  July 9, 2015 at 2:49 pm

    Equality Case Files notes that Kansas, unsurprisingly, wants to go the Arkansas/SD route and is requesting for "Marie v Moser" to be declared moot now that they are FINALLY in compliance. (

    Other than Alabama, this should the state the LEAST warrants a moot decision. They essentially have been ignoring the 10th Circuit precedence since Oct 4, 2014, and they still took nearly 2 weeks to getting state-level recognition of their own marriages after the Obergefell ruling. Out of all the states, Kansas surely requires a definitive ruling so that, as VIRick would say, "they've been told."

    Now, whether the slow-walking Judge Crabtree will do the right thing in issuing a permanent injunction or will just dismiss as moot as an easy out for him is another story…

  • 95. VIRick  |  July 9, 2015 at 4:06 pm

    "Out of all the states, Kansas surely requires a definitive ruling so that, as VIRick would say, "they've been told."

    DrBri, and Kansas so needs to be told, too, as the Kansas income tax policy is actually new news.

    As accurately reported by LGBTQ Nation:

    "Kansas Allows Joint Tax Returns for Gay Couples

    The disclosure of the policy change was made in a filing Thursday, 9 July 2015, asking US District Judge Daniel Crabtree to dismiss a lawsuit, "Marie v. Moser," filed last year by the ACLU on behalf of gay and lesbian couples."

    But if one were to read the actual filing, it presents a false scenario that all has been smooth sailing in Kansas for the past 7 months, and that everyone there has been in total compliance since last October.

  • 96. DrBriCA  |  July 9, 2015 at 5:06 pm

    We need Judge Granade or especially the Florida judge to transfer to Kansas for a day and take over the case! They know how to clarify a decision so people know what's what.

  • 97. VIRick  |  July 9, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    Indeed! Where's Judge Hinkle when we need him? LOL

  • 98. VIRick  |  July 9, 2015 at 3:55 pm

    Memo to All State Employees in Georgia:

    On Tuesday, 7 July 2015, a memo was sent to more than 90,000 state employees in Georgia, explaining that same-sex spouses are now eligible for all employment benefits previously restricted to heterosexual couples.

    I'm impressed with Georgia's performance, as all of these state actions are being done without any further court orders governing the state, other than "Obergefell" itself, as there's never been a court ruling in Georgia, neither federal nor state.

  • 99. 1grod  |  July 9, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    Rick, an example to their next-door neigbours! G

  • 100. VIRick  |  July 9, 2015 at 4:22 pm

    Today, 9 July 2015, Kentucky Governor Steve Beshear released a statement making it clear that county clerks must issue licenses to same sex couples:

    Frankfort, KY – "While there are two or three county court clerks still refusing to perform their duties, the rest of the county court clerks are complying with the law regardless of their personal beliefs. The courts and the voters will deal appropriately with the rest."

    “This morning, I advised Mr. Davis that I respect his right to his own personal beliefs regarding same-sex marriages. However, when he was elected, he took a constitutional oath to uphold the United States Constitution."

    Apparently, this advisement was addressed to Mr. Casey Davis, the recalcitrant clerk in Casey County who has stated that he won't issue any marriage licenses to any same-sex couples (although he hasn't had any such applicants), rather than to Ms. Kim Davis, the recalcitrant clerk of Rowan County who has already been sued by multiple parties in a federal class-action suit, and for whom such advice is already too late.

  • 101. VIRick  |  July 9, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    OMG! Here we go! The has gathered together all of Scalia's infamous rants into one handy, easy-to-reference source:

    "Justice Antonin Scalia's Greatest Fits"

    And all of them are there, too, from his ridiculous "argle-bargle" to his intensely-insane "jiggery-pokery."

  • 102. NorthernAspect  |  July 9, 2015 at 11:24 pm

    cringe-worthy, for sure. he will remembered for a lot time, for the wrong reasons.

    p.s. does the virgin islands in your profile reference the British ones? is that photo of you engaged in some sort of activism?

  • 103. VIRick  |  July 10, 2015 at 1:00 am

    It refers to the US Virgin Islands.

    I was flaunting my stuff at a pride parade on N. Halsted (through "Boys Town") some years ago in Chicago, in what proved to be, in retrospect, my public "coming out" party (although no one else there actually was aware of that aspect of what was happening).

  • 104. DrBriCA  |  July 10, 2015 at 10:18 am

    "(California does not count.") – When referencing the West.

    Ouch. Well, glad to know where a US Supreme Court Justice stands on the most populous (by far) state in Union. Though at least he's more upfront about it than the last president.

  • 105. VIRick  |  July 10, 2015 at 2:13 pm

    "(California does not count.") – When referencing the West.

    Wasn't that a nasty and completely unnecessary slam? But then, Scalia is full of them, attempting to belittle and demean his fellow justices, sitting there on the same bench with him.

  • 106. SoCal_Dave  |  July 10, 2015 at 8:58 pm

    Thanks for the link, Rick.

    It's all pretty disgusting, but I have to call out this from his Lawrence vs. Texas dissent:
    in 2003 he said…..
    "So imbued is the Court with the law profession’s anti-anti-homosexual culture, that it is seemingly unaware that the attitudes of that culture are not obviously ‘mainstream.’”

    He was actually using popularity as a factor in his decision?!?
    Being pro-gay was not "mainstream" enough?!
    Well, as wrong as it was, if that's his standard, he ought to have changed his tune. Being pro-gay IS mainstream now in 2015. If he was honest and had some integrity, ….. ah, who am I kidding.

  • 107. Fortguy  |  July 9, 2015 at 10:27 pm

    ¡Ay, Chihuahua!

    Charles Kuffner, Off the Kuff: Prepare for your time in the spotlight, Irion County

    Unlike other small rural counties, finding plaintiffs here is easy. The county is in a reasonable commuting distance from the city of San Angelo in adjacent Tom Green County. Asking someone to change their residency across county lines should be fairly easy since Tom Green's demographics are institutionally skewed toward young adults in our favor (Angelo State University, Goodfellow Air Force Base).

    Texas county clerks, although independently elected, have no role in passing budgets or levying taxes. These belong to the county's commissioners court which, in all counties despite population, is composed of the county judge and four commissioners elected from single-member precincts.

    If this case proceeds to the point that the other county officials are confronted with facing legal bills in the neighborhood of tens of thousands of dollars in a county of only 1,500 residents, let's hope the national media is paying attention. I would love to have TV cameras in the commissioners' meeting as she tries to justify to the court and her fellow citizens the huge hole in their budget created by her "sincerely-held religious belief" excuse for not doing her job.

  • 108. VIRick  |  July 9, 2015 at 10:51 pm

    I especially enjoyed this part from Charles Kuffner:

    "The 'Dallas Observer' engages in a bit of mischief in response:

    Just in case any of you guys are thinking about getting married this week and feel like making a ruckus, you can get to Mertzon, the Irion County seat, by taking Interstate 20 West to TX 206 South. The clerk’s office is at 209 N. Parkview St, Mertzon. After Molly Criner turns you down, head northeast on US 67 to San Angelo and Irion County’s assigned US District Court, where you can file your lawsuit at the OC Fisher Federal Building and US Courthouse. The courthouse is located at 33 East Twohig Ave, San Angelo. Godspeed and please email us your photos.

    I’d advise packing an overnight bag – it’s a long way from D/FW to Irion. Glen Maxey says on Facebook that a couple of plaintiffs have been identified and details will be forthcoming. I can’t wait."

    Plus, Molly Criner's phone number is: (325) 835-2421

  • 109. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 10, 2015 at 12:41 am

    I Love it! They also need to film it with their iphone then post it on YouTube to show all the disrespectful hate and bigotry by the clerk… I mean, religious freedom, to the world.

    My question is…Why couldn't the county clerks who wanted to issue licences to sweet gay couples prior to 2013, use their religious freedom and personal deeply held beliefs to ISSUE marriage licences….as a few tried in the 70s and in 2004/San Fran? Oh yeah right….because the clerks had to follow THE LAW.

  • 110. 1grod  |  July 10, 2015 at 3:29 am

    Kennedy could not be clearer: a fundamental right ….."may not be deprived of that right and that liberty.” Resistance must stop

  • 111. 1grod  |  July 10, 2015 at 3:53 am

    Refused AL marriage license 4 times,couple lead charge. Just how it is the Houston Co (pop:101,547 – 12 largest in state) can refuse to issue any licenses? Gathering in from of Court House in Dothan at 12:30 CDT. So far 53 persons have indicated they will attend. Double that of Equality Alabama facebook. Its an embarassment that any city with a population over 100,000 can continue to do this and persons in attendance makes that statement.

  • 112. 1grod  |  July 10, 2015 at 4:10 am

    Freedom to Marry says 11 AL counties not issuing licenses. Does that means 56 counties are issuing them? Which 6 has recently joined the in group? Can Equality Alabama update its July 2 map?

  • 113. netoschultz  |  July 10, 2015 at 5:12 am

    No, the 6 counties (Marengo, Coosa, Clay, Clambers, Henry and Blount) are not issuing marriage licenses, but they are taking applications at least

  • 114. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:06 am

    Well, how magnanimous of them.

  • 115. RnL2008  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:14 am

    Morning Tony, why you ditching on me by having Rosie O'Donnel play me…….have I TRULY offended you that much? I hurt dude!!!

    By the way, do have a great day……but seriously Rosie?

  • 116. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:24 am

    What's wrong with Rosie? She's a very funny and very opinionated, successful and dedicated mom? How about Rosie Perez…or Wendi McLendon-Covey?

  • 117. 1grod  |  July 10, 2015 at 8:29 am

    Tony, these counties are the ones where an action could be brought against. Those not issuing any licenses more complicated. I think it advisable their receiving applications from June 29 ought to be brought to Granade's attention asap so as to have acted before the AL Supreme Court does. W'e're at least a week away from Judge Granade's issuing a permanent injunction. These contrarians make it more likely that she will. So be it! I also wish the 11th Circuit's Appeals Court would act before the AL Supreme Court does. What's their reason for their having gone to ground?

  • 118. Tony MinasTirith  |  July 10, 2015 at 9:02 am

    Yes, action should be brought against these clerks around the country who are simply deciding they have the chutzpah to ignore the law of the land. However, from my reading, it's great to see that the overwhelming majority of clerks, judges, et al are complying with the new law…some happily. I just read about an Ann Arbor Mayor who asked his city council to change the marriage fee from $25 to $0 and volunteering to officiate all weddings between Same Sex or Opposite Sex. Our county clerk here in Albuquerque and most around the state began issuing licences the same day a judge told them they could do so…happily with no arm twisting. Many just used whiteout on the applications! Yes, here in NM and around the country, there are a few squeaky wheels…many who just want attention and martyrdom.

    And so, as history marches on, we'll look back and see, there was no "mass resistance", no weeks of nights of riots,violence, fire bombs in the streets, as certain individuals would have liked. At this point, it seems that most, if not all those still resisting the courts are the ones who truly do hate us, those with animus against their fellow citizen. Nothing is being taken away from them. They still have the right to beleive in their hearts/minds as they choose. They can still attend the church as they choose. They can still stand on the street corners and hold signs saying god hates fags. They can even still get "traditionally" married!

    These small factions, are not acting on behalf of a church, their job is to act on behalf of the Government, which, they should recall is "We the People". But alas, they consider society as "Those who Believe as I do", and unless you're part of their group, you don't have rights. Perhaps they should consider if the shoe was on the other foot, and if a Muslim was in office and put out a sign that said…"No Christians served here, due to our deeply held religious beliefs….Seek service in another county". How convenient it must be to have a religion that allows you to cherry pick from your religious book. What happened to "render unto ceasar, what is ceasars….i.e. the law of the land? "What happened to treat thy neighbor as thyself? What happened to And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." You would think, if they want people to have LESS gay sex, then they would encourage gay people to get married! Seriously. It's common knowledge that nothing kills the sex drive more than being married with children. Being single promotes variety…the spice of life. Being married and having sex with the same person…the same one person…well that's like having only the choice of oatmeal or mush…day after day after day, after year after year after decade. Why can str8's marry and divorce as often as they wish, often with no new children being procreated, but gays…no, not even once?

    This could all be solved very easily, while creating jobs. Each state/county could just create a "Marriage Bureau", that does nothing but issue licences, record licences, and perform ceremonies. Each new employee would understand what his or her job duties are and have to agree to perform the duties as written into law and the job description. You can't get a new job by saying to the hiring manager….well I'll do this this and this, but I won't do that that and that which part of the listed job requirements.

  • 119. 1grod  |  July 10, 2015 at 7:24 am

    Coosa is reported counted " issuing licenses".

  • 120. RnL2008  |  July 12, 2015 at 5:29 pm
    I posted this in response to the above article:
    One fight has ended, with the ruling from SCOUTS on the 26th of June, but there will still need to be lawsuits filed as some states try to dismiss moot lawsuits in order to prevent having to pay legal fees to the plaintiff's attorney's.

    There are also pockets of County Clerks/Probate Judges who feel they deserve "SPECIAL" exemptions in order to use their supposedly "DEEPLY-HELD" religious beliefs as justification to deny Same-Sex Couples marriage licenses……..yet DIDN'T have these same "DEEPLY-HELD" religious beliefs when issuing marriage licenses to divorcees, folks with visible tattoos, shaving of body hair or other sins of the bible……..and we see these same claims of "DEEPLY-HELD" religious beliefs by florist's, baker's and others who serve the wedding industry or the public, who also want "SPECIAL" exemptions to DISCRIMINATE towards a particular group of individuals……..this is the next fight and it is ALREADY upon us!!!

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