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Open thread


The big news today is that Rowan County clerk Kim Davis will not issue marriage licenses despite the denial of the stay.

Also, via Equality Case Files, a motion to hold Davis in contempt.

This is an open thread.


  • 1. LK2013  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:07 am

    How fast can that contempt motion be ruled on and implemented?

    Watching people be denied by this witch again today is heartbreaking.

    This shouldn't be happening in our country.

  • 2. AndresM11  |  September 1, 2015 at 9:03 am

    Watching that video made me sick 🙁 Those couples shouldn't have to be dealing with this inefficient clerk and her so-called "God's authority"

  • 3. LK2013  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:10 am

    I'm not sure why the contempt motion specifically excludes incarceration and just goes for a fine. The Liberty nutjobs and gofundme people will pay her fines. She needs to go to jail so someone else can step into that office and do the job she's getting something like $80,000 to not do.

    She had the gall to tell the couple to leave because they were interfering with her conducting her "business" as the county clerk.

    She is really an evil toxic waste of space. There is nothing Christian about her at all.

  • 4. wes228  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:13 am

    They don't want to make a martyr out of her. The fines can be increased and levied over and over again until she is in compliance. Several years down the line, when she is still being sued by couples over this and having to pay out expensive fees, is she still going to think that this was all worth it? I'm guessing that she's trying to think of an exit strategy where she can step down but still look like the victor.

  • 5. jcmeiners  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:18 am

    As much as I'd like to see her in an orange jumpsuit, I agree with just going for fines at this point. I don't think we want footage of her getting arrested while clutching a crucifix and her supporters singing "we shall overcome" all over FOX right now. The optics would be awful. And, if our opponents want to waste their money on expensive fines (and they can get very steep very quickly) I don't want to stop them from it. Less money for other hateful activities.

  • 6. Bruno71  |  September 1, 2015 at 9:19 am

    I agree our side should be careful and start with fines, but the truth is that she will probably continue defiance until she's jailed or impeached. This is the design of the theocrats. We either let her flout the law or become the martyr. The optics aren't totally in our control.

  • 7. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:22 am

    You're probably right. If threats of fines, threats of contempt of court don't get her to comply, why would imposing a fine get her to comply? Someone else will end up paying any fine. She knows that.

  • 8. DJSNOLA  |  September 2, 2015 at 6:51 am

    Still less money for them for other causes. Dont make a martyr out of her.

  • 9. DrPatrick1  |  September 1, 2015 at 1:18 pm

    I couldn't disagree more! This is not about asking a religious person to approve a gay marriage. She is a paper pusher, nothing more. She is never asked for consent. She is only asked to certify whether the two people meet the legal requirements of marriage under KY law. She has issued licenses many times to people who most would find to be poor candidates for marriage, only when gay people are involved does she hold up her bible. This is pure bigotry, nothing else.

    I think the people are SOOOOOO over this issue, that this is exactly the time to parade this wench in an orange suit for all the world to see. Fines will do nothing. They will not compel her to act. Those few in the public who would be so outraged by seeing her in an orange jumpsuit will be equally irate over a large fine. Have her spend a month in Jail, she will resign! I feel for those couples who are unable to have their family recognized because of her bigotry. This is unreasonable, and the public is on our side. Let her bigotry be further marginalized! Throw her butt in jail! NOW!!!

  • 10. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    I couldn't have said it better. Some around here are overly concerned about not enraging the evangikooks and cathlaholics. Jail for her or not, these peoples main agenda is to throw us in jail as they used to for the past several centuries because they find us abominations. She isn't being penalized for her faith, but only compelled to obey the court as any other recalcitrant person would be… even atheists. Not only would they reverse Obergefell, they also want to reverse Romer, and more importantly, reverse Lawrence.

  • 11. DJSNOLA  |  September 2, 2015 at 6:53 am

    Its not about enraging the kooks its about giving them an item to propagandize of of. One other strategy I saw was for them to reassign the duties of handing out marriage licenses to someone else.

  • 12. Mike_Baltimore  |  September 2, 2015 at 11:11 am

    Reassigning the duties of handing out marriage licenses to soemone else would require changing Kentucky law. Right now, Kentucky law says that marriage licenses are handed out by the County Clerk. Last I heard, the legislature will not make changes to that law, and even so, the legislature is not scheduled back in session until mid-January, and the Governor is not in the mood to call a special session of the legislature before then for this one fix. I'm not sure why he isn't in the mood, but the Governor is the only person in Kentucky who can call a special session of the state legislature.

  • 13. sfbob  |  September 2, 2015 at 11:54 am

    He's not in the mood because for one thing he's a Democrat and the legislature is dominated by Republicans. Publicly he says it's because it costs several hundred thousand dollars to have a special session and he thinks that's a waste of money (I'd probably agree with him there) but I suspect it's as much about politics as anything else.

    As for changing the way licenses are issued, there's no pressing reason for doing that other than to pacify bigots.

  • 14. TheVirginian722  |  September 2, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    Yes, it would be ridiculous for the taxpayers of Kentucky to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to finance a special legislative session with no purpose other than to cater to the likes of Kim Davis, Casey Davis, and Kay Schwartz, when 117 other County Clerks are complying with the law and doing their jobs.

    The Kentucky state legislature is not actually "dominated by Republicans." While the Senate is controlled by Republicans, the House has a Democratic majority (54-46). In fact, the Democratic Majority Floor Leader in the House is Rep. Rocky Adkins, whose district includes Rowan County. He is a popular 30-year incumbent who was re-elected last year with no opposition in the primary or general election. Whatever his opinion of fellow Democrat Davis, he is undoubtedly hearing plenty from both sides and is not enjoying it.

    Kim Davis is not a popular figure in Rowan County. She was elected last year to succeed her mother Jean, who served in the job for 37 years. Jean presided over a cesspool of nepotism, employing siblings, children, and grandchildren, a practice Kim is now continuing. Kim won the Democratic primary by a tiny 23-vote plurality (1,817 to 1,794), a very unimpressive showing for someone who had been Deputy Clerk for 27 years.

  • 15. JayJonson  |  September 2, 2015 at 7:47 am

    I am pretty sure that Judge Bunning will find some way to assure that marriage licenses are issued in Rowan County, either by coercing her to obey the law or by appointing someone else to do her job. He no doubt wants to give the assistant clerks an opportunity to volunteer to do her job for her. If he orders them directly to issue the licenses, will they refuse?

    If she refuses to obey his order and if any of her assistants also refuse to obey his order, he should impose heavy fines on all of them.

    I have no objection to incarcerating her, but I doubt that the judge will do that.

  • 16. 1grod  |  September 2, 2015 at 9:08 am

    DrPatrick; While the attention is on Rowan County, have you forgotten that 11 county probate judges in Alabama have also opted out of issuing licenses to anyone. Where is the 11th circuit in making a ruling on Judge Granade's class action injunction (Strawser v Strange). Or where is the AL Supreme Court who could dissolve their March 2015 injunction against the probate judges who were not following state's marriage law. All individual with religious convictions should ongoingly reflect on the dual guidance found in Matt 22:21 Render to Caesar. I hope Kim Davis does.

  • 17. Elihu_Bystander  |  September 1, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    "…[W]hile clutching a crucifix …"

    Fundies would never clutch a crucifix. A crucifix is a graven image and an abomination!

  • 18. RobW303  |  September 1, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    There are hundreds of things they routinely do that are forbidden in their texts. Hypocrisy is no stranger to fundies.

  • 19. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    Hypocracy is their middle name.

  • 20. Mike_Baltimore  |  September 1, 2015 at 6:51 pm

    Catholics have crucifixes (a cross with the executed jebus on the cross), but Protestants use the bare cross to symbolize the risen jebus.

    So you are correct, but for the wrong reason – fundies would not clutch a crucifix, but would clutch a cross.

  • 21. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    They don't have to make a spectacle of it. The court can just order her to report to the local authorities at a specified time and date. If she doesn't show up then the judge can order a bench warrant for her arrest with a minimum stay (say six months) and a bigger fine in the county accomodations, where if she shows up voluntarily, she holds the keys to her cell and can leave the same day she decides to comply. The contempt sanctions are meant to gain her compliance, not to be punitive. If she resists arrest however, harsh punitive sanctions could be imposed.

  • 22. LK2013  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:23 am

    Well, I have zero objection to seeing her go to jail. I don't think she would look like a martyr at all. There is a lot of opposition to what she is doing, including from people who don't even support marriage equality. She could get herself out of jail by complying with the law.

  • 23. LK2013  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:37 am

    She is telling the couples that she will "face my consequences" but they will "face your consequences on Judgment Day" … really.

    The video cuts out as she is saying "There is a remedy. The Governor could solve all this" … I wonder what she thinks the solution is, to give her a religious exemption?

  • 24. GregInTN  |  September 1, 2015 at 9:11 am

    I read somewhere (sorry, don't have the reference handy) that one of the "acceptable solutions" to her would be to change the form such that neither her name nor signature is required on the licenses. I'm guessing that may require action by the legislature and the governor but I'm not sure of the specifics of KY law on the matter.

  • 25. LK2013  |  September 1, 2015 at 9:42 am

    Well, the easiest way to change the form so that neither her name nor signature is required is to remove her from the job she is not doing.

  • 26. sfbob  |  September 1, 2015 at 10:21 am

    That would involve a statutory change so it would involve legislative action as well as the governor's signature. The legislature is under no obligation to craft a solution to Davis's personal liking nor is the governor under any obligation to sign any such bills as the legislature might pass.

  • 27. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:29 am

    Supposedly though, around half the clerks have asked the Governor to call a special session to address this solution.

    I can see why it's taken 44 years since the 1st couple was denied marriage by SCOTUS in 1971. Almost two generations after Baker, the country still has millions of people against same sex marriage. Interestingly, ME was made possible chiefly because of two Republicans – Ronald Reagan and Anthony Kennedy.

  • 28. AndresM11  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:47 am

    I'm sorry for my ignorance hehe but can Ky county clerks be impeached or removed from office by the state legislature? Kim Davis's irresponsible actions will probably cause Rowan County taxpayers a huge bill in attorney fees and contempt fines. That would be, IMHO, a sufficient cause to remove her from her highly paying job.

  • 29. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:37 pm

    They could impeach her, but I beleive they are out of session till the beginning of next year. And the Governor has stated he has no intention to call a special session at tax payer expense to hash over an issue for the only three out of over 100 clerks who are complying.

  • 30. LK2013  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:40 am

    According to Mike Wynn of the Courier Journal, there will be a hearing on the contempt charge on Thursday at 11 AM. And all deputy clerks have been asked to be present.

  • 31. A_Jayne  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:43 am

    Hitting multiple outlets – here from the AP via ABC:

    An attorney says the Kentucky clerk who won't issue marriage licenses and all her deputy clerks have been called for a federal court hearing Thursday morning.

    Rowan County Attorney Cecil Watkins says the federal court alerted him that a hearing is scheduled for 11 a.m. Thursday in Ashland.

    Watkins says clerk Kim Davis is summonsed to attend, along with all the deputy clerks who work in her office.

  • 32. guitaristbl  |  September 1, 2015 at 9:00 am

    Good, they all need to get the message and an example must be set for all.

  • 33. davepCA  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:50 am

    Anybody know if this hearing on Thursday will be open to the public and/or press?

  • 34. A_Jayne  |  September 1, 2015 at 12:14 pm

    Just a guess, but I would bet on the press being there – and all of the "public" that can fit into available courtroom spectator space – wonder if a line will form ahead of time as when SCOTUS hearings are held…

  • 35. guitaristbl  |  September 1, 2015 at 9:05 am

    I am not that surprised on even enraged that she refused to issue the licenses, this is all part of the plan Liberty Counsel has drafted to make a martyr out of her.

    What enrages me truly is how this criminal (because thats what you are called when you refuse to follow the law) treated the couple that went once again to get their license. The cunical attitude, the "you will wait for long" quote…Who does she think she is ?
    The contempt hearing should be held today even if possible, not thursday. And while I agree that putting her to jail would be exactly what Liberty Counsel aimed for from the beginning, I would love to see her arrested at this point.

    My heart goes to these couples who have been humiliated again and again by a person who thinks she is a law in herself, a puppet to an agenda of a homophobic organization.

    P.S. I just thought about that though : If she decides to pay the fines great, we have found a great way to drain all the homophobes who will support her on gofundme campaigns etc of huge loads of money. But since their ultimate target is to make a show out of her potential incarceration, I think Liberty Counsel may advise her to refuse to pay the fines. Then the only solution would be to lock her up which would be what they wanted all along.

  • 36. sfbob  |  September 1, 2015 at 10:23 am

    They won't be able to use GoFundMe as that organization has changed their policies and won't allow the site to be used to cover finds for violations of a law. Of course there will be other places for the grifters to raise money.

    Meanwhile I don't think it matters whether she chooses to pay the fines or not. The court can seize her assets.

  • 37. guitaristbl  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:08 am

    Can they seize her assets even if she gets loads of cash to pay her fines ? That may do something for her..

  • 38. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:11 am

    They won't be able to use GoFundMe, but there are religious alternatives to GoFundMe. These people claim martyr status against big gay to make big bucks, a la Memories Pizza and others.

    How will seizing her assets or putting liens on her home and bank account look any optically better, punishing her whole family than incarcerating her (presuming she's married with children and or grandchildren)? Any sanctions the court puts on her are going to look like bullying by Big Gay and the Federal Government, whether it's fines or incarceration. If she looses her home, Big Evangelical will just buy her another for being their martyr. The court can't seize her retirement account. She looks like she has $412 left in her checking account.

  • 39. tx64jm  |  September 1, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    No, the court cannot seize her assets for a contempt fine. Kentucky is an equitable distribution state, so her assets belong as much to her husband as to her … Her husband is not in contempt.

    Thats one of those rights yall have been fighting for …

  • 40. brchaz  |  September 1, 2015 at 6:05 pm

    You have it backwards. That's how "community property" works (she has a 50% interest in his jock straps, he has a 50% interest in her tampons). In "equitable distribution" states, most assets are considered "separate property" (owned only by one individual). First, all her "separate property" can be seized, and then 50% liens can be placed on any jointly owned property as well.

  • 41. tx64jm  |  September 1, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    KRS 403.190:

    "All property acquired by either spouse after the marriage and before a decree of legal separation is presumed to be marital property, regardless of whether title is held individually or by the spouses in some form of co-ownership such as joint tenancy, tenancy in common, tenancy by the entirety, and community property…"

    So, no. All property acquired during a marriage in Kentucky is marital property. It is not subject to seizure or lien for a fine that the spouse incurs alone (such as a contempt of court fine).

  • 42. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    I don't know why you even bother arguing with it. Cut your losses and move on.

  • 43. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 9:53 am

    While I don't like the idea of her becoming a martyr, I don't see fines as persuading her into compliance. She needs to first be charged with contempt of Bunning's ruling, and then be charged with a crime for violating the law. Though her crime is supposedly only a misdemeanor with up to 1 year in jail. The churches and evangelicals are wealthy… I don't think they can fine her into compliance. Perhaps she can be charged and convicted of a federal hate crime….something that carries a felony charge which would force her out of office and give her some serious time in a Federal Penitentiary.

    The Civil Rights Act of 1968 enacted 18 U.S.C. § 245(b)(2), which permits federal prosecution of anyone who "willingly injures, intimidates or interferes with another person, or attempts to do so, by force because of the other person's race, color, religion or national origin" [1] because of the victim's attempt to engage in one of six types of federally protected activities, such as attending school, patronizing a public place/facility, applying for employment, acting as a juror in a state court or voting.

    The FBI defines a hate crime (a.k.a. bias crime) to be:
    "a criminal offense committed against a person, property or society which is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin."

    I believe Kentucky has a state hate crime law on their books also. I'd say 1 year in a federal prison for each unlawful denial to each couple denied would be fair.

  • 44. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 9:57 am

    States with hate crime laws that include crimes based on sexual orientation
    —15 states (as of on: June 21, 2013)
    Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Wisconsin


    They also have Religious Freedom Legislation also:

    Religious Freedom Act of 2013
    In March 2013, both houses of the Kentucky legislature passed the Religious Freedom Act which requires the state to show "clear and convincing evidence" for any statutes or policies that infringe on an individual's "sincerely held religious beliefs".[a] The bill was supported by the Kentucky Family Foundation and the Kentucky Catholic Conference. More than 50 civil rights, public health, religious and other community groups urged Governor Steve Beshear to veto the legislation, including the Kentucky League of Cities, the Kentucky Association of Counties, the Kentucky ACLU and the mayors of Louisville and Covington. Opponents argued its wording was vague and could be used to override local non-discrimination ordinances. Supporters, including the bill's sponsor, Representative Bob Damron, argued it was needed to protect religious believers from state encroachment, citing the case of several Kentucky Amish who were arrested for refusing to put reflectors on their buggies when traveling government-maintained roads. Beshear vetoed the bill and the legislature overrode his veto by votes of 79-15 in the House and 32-6 in the Senate.

    This woman's absolute sovereign law of not issuing marriage licenses is violating everyone's religious freedom to obtain marriage licenses in their own county. She is a self proclaimed legislature and sovereign… or so she thinks.

  • 45. JayJonson  |  September 1, 2015 at 10:28 am

    She is acting in her capacity as Clerk of Rowan County. Rowan County can certainly be held accountable for her actions. I do not think that the taxpayers of Rowan County will be happy with a huge increase in their taxes as a result of Kim Davis's lawlessness. If the county is fined, the taxpayers will have to decide whether she is worth the legal expenses and punitive fines they will be stuck with.

  • 46. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 10:46 am

    How much do you think Judge Bunning can fine her per day, realistically? How would inadvertently fining the tax payers of Rowan County by a Federal Judge look optically? $1000 per day? $5000 per day? $10,000 per day? How is he going to force collection from the county? If the county becomes liable, then the gay community still looks like bullies. If he fines her personally, she'll just not pay the fine, or claim bankruptcy or start a fund raising campaign that will fully fund her and then some. Look what happened with the Memories pizza shop. And they are supposedly donating a portion of their 3/4 million dollar gains to other anti-gay business. What are the plantiff's lawyers to do to force collection? Ask the judge to put a lean on her house… to garnish income from the county? If the threat of fines won't force her to comply, how will court ordered fines deter her, when she already defies the court? Their side has plenty of money…she doesn't have a lot of liberty, sitting in a penitentiary.

  • 47. guitaristbl  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:44 am

    If the county becomes liable even better for us. A woman refusing to do her job costs money to the taxpayers. Why would the gay community look bad ? Do we look bad when state officials are ordered to pay thousands of dollars for attorney fees for the legal challenges against the bans ?

  • 48. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    By that logic then, why would the gay community look bad if she gets incarcerated for breaking the law., for contempting a federal court? The gays didn't force her to break the law or contempt the court. How will having the county be liable for monetary fines be even better for us if the couples, gay or straight still can't get their marriage licences? Isn't being treated like first class citizens, like everyone else the ultimate goal… not punishing the county and it's tax payers? Davis knew walking into the courthouse this morning knowing that she would be in contempt of court and facing fines. She didn't care one bit. Money isn't her main motivator… carrying out her dominionist agenda is more important.

    I'm not opposed to her being fined, or even fined first… If that works great. Awesome. If that forces her hand to issue licences Thursday afternoon, wonderful! But I still think someone is whispering in her ear…..don't you worry about fines…we'll take care of that… or let the county worry about that. Just continue to stand your ground, and you'll inspire others around the country to do the same.

  • 49. guitaristbl  |  September 1, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    It's the visual aspect of things.
    Paying fees does not have the visual and thus emotional value of a crying bigot being arrested (probably shouting christian rants) and having a dozen of like minded bigots around her cheering for her which is exactly what Liberty Counsel wanted from day 1 when this whole travesty started.

    As for the fines you say it yourself : "Davis knew walking into the courthouse this morning knowing that she would be in contempt of court and facing fines."

    Seeing her go to jail will hit to some people's emotions in her favour. Holding the county liable for her grandstanding will hit their pockets against her. There is an essential difference.

    The fines will only get bigger and bigger and bigger – How much funding power those people behind her have ? Will they continue giving money to her when the fines reach millions of dollars for each day she fails to comply ? Let them spent all their money paying her contempt fines for all I care – money that could fund other causes such as the campaign against the HERO ordinance in Houston.
    If others consider it inspirational to follow the same course, let liberty counsel and all the bigots who are willing to donate to such causes pour money into them as well. Let them dry out on such a futile battle for all I care.

  • 50. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    I'm not too worried about the visual aspect, as much as the couples in question and future couples actually getting treated equally and getting their licenses and constitutional rights recognized. Let her go off to jail in handcuffs crying. This staged spectacle will only run one 24 hour news cycle and will only play to the choir of evangelikooks who support her whether she's in prison or on a bully pulpit on CBN.

    As the above referenced article points out, Mrs. Davis is a rarity. We have around 99.8% compliance with the Supreme Court's Obergefell ruling nationwide. I'm more interested in getting to 99.9% compliance than "optics". Their crying handcuffed clerk optics can be countered by long time gay couples like Obergefell's own husband and the case of the evil mother in law trying to steal her son in laws legal inheritance.

    If the fines accomplish the goal of getting her to comply great. Unless the judge imposes 100's of thousands of dollars per day, it will take months for the fines to reach into the millions. I and neither do the plaintiff couples want her recalcitrance to drag on for months. The evangelikoos and cathlaholics have billions if not trillions of dollars…their funding will never dry up. Look at the millions of dollars the catholic church has paid out to it's sexual abuse victims…they're no where near drying up. If you think sucking up religious money on fines here will dry up campaign funds for the Huxterbys and Cruz's of 2016, you're way overestimating this situation. But let's hope you're right and monetary fines alone will have her issuing licences Thursday afternoon. You can't shake your fist at a win…if the couples win on Thursday with threats of fines, I certainly won't be.

  • 51. Eric  |  September 1, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    A Christian being locked in jail for her "faith" will play out for far longer than a news cycle. The Chri$tian industrial complex will use that footage for years to promote fundraising and religious discrimination laws at state and local levels. They still use '80's Pride parade footage for their marketing.

  • 52. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 2:21 pm

    She wouldn't be "locked in jail" for her faith, but for criminally defying a Federal Court order. The Chri$stian industrail complex will fund raise whether they have "footage" of her arrest regardless. What are you supposing, that this "footage" will increase their fund raising by 100%? 80% 30%?

    I might be worried if Judge Bunning sends in bearded gay gogo boys in nothing but jockstraps, leather boots and ray bans, to escort her to prison. Otherwise, the right will continue to oppose the left and raise funds as long as progressives are holding public office. I guess Mrs. Davis is a DINO since purportedly she's a democrat. So if she chooses to ignore the fines, not pay them, and neither does the county…then what? Threaten her that it will go on her credit report? Or you on board with guitar's plan to let the fine just rack up into the millions? Leaving whom to collect? The IRS? Or are we going to send in the bearded gay gogo boys as collection agents to collect from the Rowan County Treasury?

  • 53. davepCA  |  September 1, 2015 at 3:08 pm

    Tell me more about these bearded gay gogo boys. I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter : )

  • 54. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    Oh you haven't heard of the bearded gay Gogo boys? In addition to their jock straps, leather boots and ray bans, their uniform includes a white construction hard hat. They are the new law enforcement arm of The Gay Mafia. You must have missed the article featuring them in my May news letter. They're also available for bar mitzvahs and Pride Parades for a reasonable fee. The Gogo boys took over the contract when the bearded white face drag nuns' contract expired and wasn't renewed. They just weren't working out. Too many immaculate conceptions, too much sick leave.

  • 55. VIRick  |  September 1, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    "…. if Judge Bunning sends in bearded gay gogo boys in nothing but jockstraps, leather boots and ray bans …."

    Tony, have Judge Bunning send them here to arrest me, as that sounds quite exciting!!

  • 56. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    OK Rick. They are third party contract. So I'll need your credit card and DOB. You can order them in sets of three but as an EoTer, I'll give you 20% off a bakers dozen. Let me know.

  • 57. Fortguy  |  September 1, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    Great. Now the fundies worst fear has come true. They really will be rounded up by the Gaystapo along with the lesbian dominatrix mullet brigade. The former are high-stepping kinky-booted thugs. The latter wear very practical shoes.

  • 58. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 10:43 pm

    Except judge Bunning has no authority to call out the bearded gay Gogo boys or the dominatrix lebesians. He could simply order her under his jurisdiction to report to the local preceint to cool her heels, and she is free to walk out as soon as she obeys the court order. She had her due process and lost… in court. And the appeals court told her she has little to no chance to prevail on appeal, so the balance of equities leans in favor of giving the plaintiffs the releif they sought and the constitutional rights they are due. The Supreme Court basically shut the window in her face as she's been doing to all the nice gay couples at her clerk window.

    Personally, I'd be more afraid of crossing the lumberjack lebesians than the gogos or mullet brigade. Yeah, go ahead, down vote me all ya want. I ain't afraid.

  • 59. Fortguy  |  September 1, 2015 at 10:58 pm

    Yes, that's better. I wish I would have thought up the lumberjack stereotype first.

  • 60. RnL2008  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:17 pm

    Exactly what do you mean by "LUMBERJACK" Lesbians? I mean, I may be a big girl, but in reality, I'm a giant teddy bear….just ask my wife:-)

  • 61. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:56 pm

    Ah Rose, I never thought u were a lumberjack lebesian.

    You KNOW you're my FAVORITE Gingerbread Lebesian 🙂

    Besides only the Gingerbread and Lipstick Lebesians put up with me 🙂

    And of course Rick of the Virgin Island Lebesians is my favorite Honorary Lebesian… Aren't ya Rick?

  • 62. RnL2008  |  September 2, 2015 at 12:06 am

    Awww, thanks Sweetie………I always find these ummm labels funny at best and rather ridiculous on some other level……..I mean if you look at a picture of my wife and I, some would label us the classic "BUTCH/FEM" couple, even though I am a big person, I'm a rather tender hearted giant bear………I love to make people choke on their own stupidity……….had a co-worker once say that the first time she met me, she that I was going to rip her head off, but then after she got to know me, she knew I was a big teddy bear……..I told her to keep that a secret……!!!

  • 63. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 2, 2015 at 1:06 am

    You know I'm just funnin you Rose. My momma done told me, Tony, never judge a book by its cover. You see, you may discover something wonderful in between the homliest of covers. And I never did (mostly).

    I've been told by some that their friends who've never spoken to me think I'm conceited or "stuck-up"… just by looking at me… when in fact, I'm the polar opposite.

    I always say, never judge or hate anyone just because of some stereotype or grouping they seem to fit into… wait and get to know the person as an individual and you're always sure to find something personally, specifically, and individually to detest about him or her. If you look hard enough. 🙂

  • 64. RnL2008  |  September 2, 2015 at 1:31 am

    I do Sweetie……..on the other site I post on, I have trolls make all sorts of nasty comments regarding me, from being uneducated to being rude and hostile…….but none of them are true. I've been on that site for a little over 7 years and know when to walk way from a troll who just wants to troll and I swear, I know that there are folks who have issues with Gays and Lesbians, but some of the trolls post some of the most outrageous lies I could NOT even imagine.

    Just like the issue with the Clerk in Kentucky or the Baker in Colorado, no matter what facts one posts, these idiots will find a reason to counter it and then beat the issue to death……..that's one of the reasons I like posting here. Lots of different opinions, thoughts and ideas to try and make things better, on the other site, negativity breeds negativity……but I have been fortunate to get to know some pretty decent folks around the Country, some we chat on facebook, e-mail or actually chat on the phone.

  • 65. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 2, 2015 at 2:05 am

    I know what you mean. I was participating in this forum of a Salt Lake news paper for a few months right around the time Utah's ban was overturned. Talk about intense debate! Some of these people were take no prisoners zealots. They could be down right vitriolic and violent, if only in speech. But it is a site with polar opinions, where here most everyone is on the same side as you and I learned.

    We're lucky here on EoT, we only have one lonely hit an run, cut n paste troll who mainly posts and is impressed with himself. That is if you don't count The B Bopsy twins Baltimore and Birmingham. But I don't count them. If anything they're more annoying imps than trolls. But whatcha gonna do? As disagreeable as they may be, the one thing you can say for them is that they are also strong Marriage Equality supporters – and that you gotta respect.

    And of course on the better side we have you, our lovely Rick and our fabulous DavepCA. I often wonder what happened to our resident raging waggling Wolf.

  • 66. davepCA  |  September 2, 2015 at 9:48 am

    Hey, look! Somebody just called me "fabulous"! This day is turning out to be pretty good! : )

  • 67. RnL2008  |  September 2, 2015 at 9:56 am

    Morning Tony and of course Fabulous Dave……….thanks for the compliment……I try to provide good information and well rounded opinions, but my frustrations and emotions can get the best of me…

  • 68. sfbob  |  September 2, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    Time for a Monty Python clip…

  • 69. RnL2008  |  September 2, 2015 at 3:07 pm

    Thank you so much….not a huge fan of Monty Python, but this is a good one to post.

  • 70. Mike_Baltimore  |  September 2, 2015 at 10:52 am

    How many Xians were fed to the lions and other beasts, and for how many years?

    Yet, almost all Xians are very proud that some of their ancestors, 1700 years ago, were fed to the lions and advertise that fact all the time – the more fundie, the more they scream about the lions in the Roman Colosseum.

    Do you REALLY think the Xians (especially the fundie Xians of Rowan County, Kentucky) will treat the martyrdom of one fundie clerk as a lark, and forget about her in one news cycle?

  • 71. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 2, 2015 at 12:44 pm

    Ohhhh, no no no no no no no.

    I would NEVER feed Kimmy to a lion. Just imagine what that would do to it's LDLs. The poor lion's LDLs would shoot through the Roof!

    I'd be strung up and quartered be PETA. Davis may be cruel to Gays and Lebesians, but I'm not going to be cruel to animals. Uh uh.. not me.

  • 72. Mike_Baltimore  |  September 2, 2015 at 1:07 pm

    Who, may I ask, stated
    "This staged spectacle will only run one 24 hour news cycle. . . ."?

    Wasn't it one Tony MinasTirith, approximately 24 hours ago?

    I believe 1700 years after the last Xian was fed to the lions and other beasts at the Roman Colosseum, and especially since the fundies are so 'proud' of that, hauling her off to jail will last much longer than one 24 hour news cycle. Faux News, for one, will almost assuredly make sure of that.

  • 73. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 2, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    Yes in deedy. It was one Tony MinasTirith. But I wasn't referring to Faux news, minor news sites, or twitter, the blogosphosphere. I was referring to MAJOR news networks, CNN, Headline News, ABC, CBS, NBC. doing in depth News Stories, not just 20 second updates. You won't see Kimmy getting the attention you see for Caitlyn Jenner, Kim Kardashian, Niki Minaj or even Kristina Bobby Brown. The ONLY reason she's had a spike on the networks is because she reached the Supreme Court. Will her story continue to flow through the underbelly of the news, and regurgitate round and round the conservative talk shows like Rush, Hannity, and O'Reily and get 20 second updates…yeah probably. But who cares? You? and who else? Perhaps she'll get an interview from David Muir once she's sitting in an orange jump suit…still who cares. Comparing sitting in a cell to being fed to lions is comparing apples to oranges. Now if she strangles herself with the plastic trash bag while in jail…THEN we'll get constant nonstop coverage. THAT will be news! When THAT happens, let me know…otherwise quit bothering me with your silly lion crap. I'm too busy for your non-sense.

    Tell me Mikey, where her story is appearing on Nightline, Dateline, Extra, TMZ, ET, TODAY, CBS Morning News, Face the Nation, Yahoo, plastered all over every news stand magazine, day after day, week after week. When Kimmy reaches the level, and saturation of daily coverage that Caitlyn Jenner, and Kim Kardashian get, then she'll be news. Will she and her story be in the news, yes, but all esoteric news outlets. Otherwise and until then Tell me who really gives a *@#@ what happens to ol' Kimmy? Unless she's stlll holding office and holding out, she'll be OLD NEWS by thanksgiving. Every time she sticks her head out of her office, and speaks, that's new news and a new 24 hour cycle. She'll get her 15 minutes of fame, and maybe 10 minutes more…unless she's smart enough to parlay that into her own talk show or paid social commentary pundit. If she does then kudos to her. Just please I hope she has the sense to hire a stylist.

  • 74. TheVirginian722  |  September 2, 2015 at 2:43 pm

    Kim "hire a stylist"? Her church doesn't permit women to wear makeup or jewelry, and her wardrobe is haute couture in northeast Kentucky. If she loses the Clerk gig, she's planning to start an internet fashion line, KDKY.

  • 75. Sagesse  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:35 am

    It may take awhile, but I think what will finally do her in is the ethics complaint filed by the county where the state AG is considering appointing a special prosecutor. Ultimately,the state gets to decide how marriage is made available to its residents; blocking availability for some and not others can't be something the state allows to happen.

  • 76. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:55 am

    That could certainly do it. She has it coming at her from all sides. Contempt of Court, no support by the Circuit or Supreme Courts, and now the AG may be going after her. Her handlers though are assuring her not to worry. Depriving her of her freedom or her ability to make a living via her current job, as she is depriving her fellow citizens of their fundamental constitutional rights is the only way this will be resolved.

  • 77. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:41 am

    I wonder if this Ashley Maddison scandal has anything to do with Friday's divorce filing by Alabama's first lady… or is Alabama's first couple divorcing because, legal gay marriage destroyed their traditional marriage in less than 90 days.

  • 78. Deeelaaach  |  September 1, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    If their divorce is, in their opinion, because gay marriage is legal, then their marriage wasn't on very solid footing to begin with.

    If they just decided to throw in the towel because they have to share the big tent of marriage with us, that's childish. They'd be deciding not to play with anyone else because they don't get their way. Only they don't get to take the ball home with them, so the game in this analogy will still go on without them. And it's their problem, not anyone else's.

  • 79. Mike_Baltimore  |  September 1, 2015 at 7:01 pm

    In 2004, at my second step-father's funeral, my niece (who fully knew I was gay) told me, in no uncertain terms, that I WOULD be at her wedding (in Indiana) in 2005 if I knew what was good for me.

    I didn't want to find out what she had planned if I didn't go to her wedding (it didn't hurt her cause that she had recruited my sister to her 'cause').

  • 80. JayJonson  |  September 2, 2015 at 7:51 am

    The Baptist governor's marriage of 50 years has ended because he was having an affair with a staffer thirty years his junior. Good Christian family values. You will remember that Governor Bentley contended that allowing same-sex couples to marry would demean the institution of marriage; apparently, adultery not so much.

  • 81. sfbob  |  September 2, 2015 at 9:09 am

    It's always the ones who protest the loudest who are trying to hide something, isn't it?

  • 82. wes228  |  September 1, 2015 at 1:35 pm

    Could the judge ultimately order the U.S. Marshals to enter the courthouse and have an officer sign the license "on behalf of the Clerk of Rowan County"? So long as the state government recognizes the subsequent marriage that the license allows an officiant to perform (and the state government has been cooperating), the couples will have a legal marriage.

  • 83. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    I'd bet the judge could have US Marshalls arrest and incarcerate Davis and any clerk's not complying. I'm not so sure he can order someone else to sign on her behalf. Once she's incarcerated, and if all her staff is too, then there is a Sr. Judge who can issue the licences in her stead. It's hard to imagine though that all six of her deputy clerks have the fortitude to remain in jail for over 48 hours, much less weeks, or months, while she goes through impeachment proceedings. At some point, one or more of the deputy clerks would crack, and go agree to comply with the court ruling…probably within a few days. There may even be one already ready to issue licences as soon as a judge orders him or her to do so.

    By the by, for the first time ever, this weekend, I saw a "US Federal Police" car driving around town. I've never heard of US Federal Police before or know what they're about…. It and the officer in the car looked like regular city police except for the wording "US Federal Police" on the side of the car. Perhaps whomever this Federal Police are, they'd have the jurisdiction to carry out a Federal Judge's order.. as well as the US Marshall Service.

  • 84. stevew999  |  September 1, 2015 at 5:13 pm

    Did it say "Federal Protective Service", by any chance? There's no "Federal Police" agency.

    If it was FPS, they don't deal with things like this order or contempt orders or such. That is, as you noted, US Marshalls (for federal courts).

  • 85. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 6:10 pm

    No. All it said was Federal Police. In a very different font from our city police. I thought it was a bit odd.

    The black and white car only said Federal Police on the door. The only thing I could find on the web was an article talking about the successful roll out of the Obama Administration's pilot Federal Police Program in six cities last winter. We aren't one of the six cities listed. It all seemed a bit conspiracy theorist to me. The officer inside was a handsome young man with short dark hair and a crisp black uniform. The car had standard police lights, it was not a slick top. At first I thought it was from a neighboring city or Indian Reservation. But all the vehicle said was Federal Police. My first thought was when did this happen.

  • 86. stevew999  |  September 1, 2015 at 8:11 pm

    That is weird. The Federal Police Program is actually not called that, though (that's a right-wing moniker they slapped on it, apparently). It's actually an initiative to help train police, along with members of communities, on how to reduce conflict and bias, etc. I don't have the actual name of it handy, but it seemed geared toward reducing racial bias, although bias against LGBT communities was also mentioned.

    Be interesting to find out what agency that officer was part of, though. Might be totally unrelated, perhaps some agency police force (there are many) just marks their cars that way and he was on his way to or from work somewhere (we have some FPS officers in my neighborhood, and they have agency vehicles for driving to/from work).

  • 87. DeadHead  |  September 1, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    Davis Official Statement is posted at

  • 88. Eric  |  September 1, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    At least her alleged $1.5MM surplus can go towards paying claims and attorneys' fees.

    It's funny she speaks of accommodation, yet her only effort at accommodation has been to tell people no.

  • 89. sfbob  |  September 1, 2015 at 4:28 pm

    She speaks of accommodation but forgets that in employment law that word is usually preceded by "reasonable." There is nothing reasonable at all about Davis's stance, which consists of dictating to the county a marriage policy at odds with the Supreme Court ruling, nor with her suggested fixes which would consist of changing state's entire statutory scheme so as not to inconvenience her.

  • 90. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 10:57 pm

    If she wants accomodation, she should first learn how to give it.

  • 91. guitaristbl  |  September 1, 2015 at 2:34 pm

    Well she is determined to drive the county from a surplus to a deficit that's for sure.

    She is not serving the citizens of Rowan County, she does the exact opposite and if her conscience does not allow her to do her job she should quit. She wants accomodation for not doing her job ? I want some of that as well, can I have it please ? Like getting paid to not do my job – that's the kind of accomodation she wants.

    I wont even talk about her religious rant, I don't care about people's mental diseases and imaginary friends.

  • 92. RnL2008  |  September 1, 2015 at 11:33 pm

    Her Statement is NOTHING more than an OUTRIGHT lie…..and if we allow her a "SPECIAL" exemption, then we MUST allow others a "SPECIAL" EXEMPTION for something else, which is why SCOTUS has upheld Anti-Discrimination laws as Constitutional.

    I am all for her having the right to her religious beliefs, but she is preventing others in her office from issuing marriage licenses based on her OWN beliefs and to say she serves ALL of the residents of Rowan County, is an OUTRIGHT lie, she WON'T serve Gays and Lesbians regarding their right to marry and NO where in the 1st Amendment does it state one has the right to use their CHOSEN religious beliefs to DISCRIMINATE against others…….PERIOD!

  • 93. jcmeiners  |  September 1, 2015 at 3:47 pm

    My concern with having her thrown in jail is that it looks too much like civil rights leaders being thrown in prison. The right is trying hard to make their fight for "religious liberties" the next civil rights issue, and even claim the mantle of MLK. Nothing could be further from the truth, but I'm afraid that just giving them the visuals of a crucifix-clutching women being arrested by white cops will look bad enough that it might put a wedge between our community and the black religious folks – a still very uneasy alliance, if you can call it even that, which we worked hard to forge over the last decade.

  • 94. LK2013  |  September 1, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    The Governor of Kentucky is not going to rescue Davis from the courts.

    But neither is he going to call for a special session of the Legislature.

    Kentucky's system of elected clerks really doesn't work for this kind of situation. What if you have a clerk who becomes mentally ill? Or develops a serious substance abuse issue? They really need a better way to kick someone out.

    Gov. Beshear’s Statement on County Clerks, Marriage Licenses in Kentucky
    Tuesday, 09 01, 2015

    Terry Sebastian
    Jennifer Brislin

    FRANKFORT, Ky. – “There are obviously strong feelings on both sides of this issue, but the United States Supreme Court has spoken and same-sex marriage is now legal in Kentucky and the rest of the United States. Regardless of whatever their personal feelings might be, 117 of our 120 county clerks are following the law and carrying out their duty to issue marriage licenses regardless of gender. Same-sex couples are now being married in Kentucky and such marriages from other states are now being recognized under Kentucky law.

    The future of the Rowan County Clerk is now in the hands of the courts. The legislature has placed the authority to issue marriage licenses squarely on county clerks by statute, and I have no legal authority to relieve her of her statutory duty by executive order or to remove her from office.

    The General Assembly will convene in four months and can make any statutory changes it deems necessary at that time. I see no need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayers’ money calling a special session of the General Assembly when 117 of 120 county clerks are doing their jobs.” – Gov. Steve Beshear



  • 95. Zack12  |  September 1, 2015 at 5:41 pm

    Enough is enough with this woman.
    Time to throw her in jail.

  • 96. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    Burn the Witch! Burn the Witch! Burn the Witch! Burn the Witch! Burn the Witch! Burn the Witch!

    As luck would have it! I just happen to have a truck load of pitchforks and torches. I'm willing to let them go – real cheap! 😀

    FREE Kerosene with every pitchfork & torch set purchased!

  • 97. RemC  |  September 1, 2015 at 7:25 pm

    It seems that her divorce records make for some eyebrow-raising reading according to U.S. News & World Report:

  • 98. A_Jayne  |  September 1, 2015 at 7:40 pm

    Too funny, from that article –

    The marriages are documented in court records obtained by U.S. News, which show that Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis divorced three times, first in 1994, then 2006 and again in 2008.

    She gave birth to twins five months after divorcing her first husband. They were fathered by her third husband but adopted by her second. Davis worked at the clerk's office at the time of each divorce and has since remarried.

    Davis has described her desire to strictly adhere to the Bible in stark terms and thus far has shown no sign of bending to court orders on same-sex marriage. She said Tuesday she fears going to hell for violating "a central teaching" of the Bible if she complies with the orders.


    The matter first attracted public attention in July, when WKYT-TV reporter Victor Puente made a passing on-air reference to the fact that Davis’ latest marriage certificate shows she was married four times. Davis’ office stores that document.

    I agree with multiple attorneys' statements in the article, including the ACLU, that her marriages have nothing to do with the case at hand. I DO NOT agree with a statement by the other county clerk, Casey Davis (no relation, also refusing licenses to gay couples) where he says her situation (born again and forgiven after being sorry) is much different than ours (continuing to live our lives fully, regardless of their beliefs).

    Truth is, neither their assessments of our relationships, nor ours of theirs, have anything to do with equal treatment, due process, or appropriately performing the duties of one's government job.

    But I have to chuckle a little bit, anyway…

  • 99. JayJonson  |  September 2, 2015 at 6:05 am

    I love the statement of Joe Jervis (of Joe.My.God), who described her marital indiscretions as "Maury Povich-level fuckery."

  • 100. VIRick  |  September 1, 2015 at 9:29 pm

    Meet The Transgender “Sistergirls” Of The Tiwi Islands

    A small remote community in northern Australia has one of the highest concentrations of transgender people in the country and they have fought hard to be accepted.

  • 101. Tony MinasTirith  |  September 1, 2015 at 10:18 pm

    So I guess in this Apostolic religion of Davis' they teach that one can loose their salvation (be dammed to hell) …unlike the evangelicals and many mainline religions that beleive once saved always saved. This loosing salvation, or being sent to hell after "being washed in the blood of the savior" is antithetical to the beleifs of many of the evangelikooks. Many "Christians" would consider this type of belief in loosing ones salvation and salvation based on good works, instead of accepting "The Savior" as that of a cult. Her multiple divorces speak directly to her faith of convenience. The bible doesn't support divorce for the most part. If one were to examine her life, they'd find her a cherry picker, as many pious are. If Christ died for her sins, but his dad will send Davis to Hell for signing a ssm application, then his blood wasn't very thick and he died in vain if salvation can be taken back on a whim. I mean if people can be forgiven for multiple divorces and that dress she wears not to mention aborting a fetus, what's so hard about getting forgiveness for signing a form… seriously. Damming someone washed in the blood for a signature? Really? Where in to bible is that load of CRAP?

    In reality humans make up their God in their image. Notice blacks often have a black baby Jesus, Hispanics have a Hispanic baby Jesus, Germans have a blond blue eyed ayrian baby Jesus and so on. If people are violent then their God is violent. If they're judgemental their God is uber judgemental, if they are kind and forgiving, their God is kind and forgiving. This woman's God is as judgemental as she is. The westboros are nasty mean people and so is their God who hates fags and blesses the church members when they picket the funerals of children victims like those of Sandy Hook.

    So apparently there are many gods, or God is a shape shifter, also known as a Lycan which are very closely related to warewolves. Perhaps that's why their God is so blood thirsty… and once required animal blood sacrifice to gain his favor, until he changed his mind and was satisfied with the blood of his only "begotten" son. Many of these people to this day still have blood drinking and cannibal rituals because they truly and actually beleive that their high priests literally turn wine and wafers into the actual blood and flesh of Jesus which they proceed to drink and eat. Drink blood, be washed in the blood, saved by the blood, cleansed by the blood. It all sounds bloody paegan and sanguinary. And yet they judge GLBTs who simply want to commit to one another, love honor, cherish and take care of their beloved and share a life. The hyprocisy of Davis' multiple divorces, glutonny, judging, wearing mixed fibers, and who knows what else are completely relevant to her cherry picking deeply held beleifs. …I'd say.

  • 102. Raga  |  September 2, 2015 at 4:13 am

    Kim Davis's election day promise: “My words can never express the appreciation,” she said of the constituents who voted for her, “but I promise to each and every one that I will be the very best working clerk that I can be and will be a good steward of their tax dollars and follow the statutes of this office to the letter.”

  • 103. davepCA  |  September 2, 2015 at 9:40 am

    In related news, county fire and rescue personnel were called to Davis' office this morning to extinguish what was described by fire personnel as 'pants on fire'. Emergency personnel later expressed concern that "this has become a regular thing in the past ninety days".

  • 104. GregInTN  |  September 2, 2015 at 10:45 am

    I hear that Sheriff Deputies were later called to the Circuit Court Clerk's office for Rowan County (not to be confused with the County Clerk's office) to remove an irate woman (later identified as one Kim Davis) who was being denied a drivers license because the Circuit Court Clerk had deeply held religious beliefs that prohibited women from driving automobiles.

  • 105. davepCA  |  September 2, 2015 at 11:03 am

    …..your comment just made me think – how awesome would it be if, when her fourth marriage fails, she has to deal with someone who refuses to process her divorce papers, citing 'deeply held religious beliefs that marriage is til death do us part'….

  • 106. GregInTN  |  September 2, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    …and that fourth marriage may fail soon after husband #4 (aka husband #2) realizes the financial ramifications of her actions (contempt of court fines, loss of $80K/yr position due to misconduct and resultant loss of pension).

  • 107. LK2013  |  September 2, 2015 at 10:19 am

    I have just finished putting together the interesting marital history of Ms. Davis, as it has surfaced piece-meal in the media over the past couple days. I have added in brackets clarifying information to put the pieces together, in case anyone else is interested in the history of this lady. It is also noteworthy that her "born-again" moment came in 2011, after she made a promise to her dying mother-in-law (Vonda Davis, her current husband Joe Davis' mother) that she would go to her MIL's Apostolic Church (the rest is history). So, like she said, Ms. Davis is came to Jesus, was forgiven, and is prepared to accept her consequences on Judgment Day.

    Anyway, may I just say that I really don't care what people do in their relationships, marriages, open-or-otherwise intimate arrangements, child-rearing, etc. But it becomes public information – and interesting in an oh-so-hypocritical-way – when you start spouting self-righteous religious dogma to justify preventing other people from getting married.

    Per US News,

    "The marriages are documented in court records obtained by U.S. News, which show that Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis divorced three times, first in 1994, then 2006 and again in 2008.

    She gave birth to twins five months after divorcing her first husband. They were fathered by her third husband [Thomas McIntyre] but adopted by her second [Joe Davis]. Davis worked at the clerk's office at the time of each divorce and has since remarried."

    Per SFGate,

    "He [Joe Davis, current husband, who is both #2 and #4] said he and his wife have been together 19 years, but declined to elaborate on how much of that time they've spent married.

    Court records detail Kim Davis' turbulent marital history: She has been married to her current husband twice, with a divorce and another husband in between.

    She married her first husband, Dwain Wallace, when she was 18 [in 1984], and divorced him in 1994.

    She acknowledged in a 2008 divorce filing having had two children in 1994 while she was not married.

    In 1996, at age 30, she married Joe Davis for the first time. They divorced in 2006.
    The next year [2007], at 40 years old, Davis wed Thomas McIntryre [#3, the father of the 2 kids she had in 1994, 13 years earlier], though their marriage lasted less than a year. She re-married Joe Davis [#2 and #4] in 2009."

  • 108. TheVirginian722  |  September 2, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    Current husband Joe (#2/#4) Davis was in the Clerk's office on Tuesday, perhaps applying for a job there along with the other relatives. He described himself in an interview as "an old redneck hillbilly" and warned anyone contemplating "knocking on my door" that he is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment and is well-armed. So it seems that Kim is an authority on the First Amendment and Joe on the Second Amendment. Maybe eventually they will work their way down to the Fourteenth Amendment and learn something about "equal protection" and "due process."

  • 109. JayJonson  |  September 2, 2015 at 10:30 am

    Attorneys in one of the Alabama marriage cases (Searcy) are asking for $200,000 in fees from the state. Sounds good to me; I hope Judge Granade agrees.

    Read more here:

  • 110. weaverbear  |  September 2, 2015 at 10:47 am

    Several people have mentioned reasonable accommodation. For Ms. Davis, that would be to allow someone else in the office to do the marriage licenses. There are assistant clerks in the office. Unless there is some sort of state requirement that it is only the county clerk them self may sign the document, there is the reasonable accommodation.

    If driving to another county is the reasonable accommodation this lady has in mind, it is no longer reasonable. However, the real answer to all this is this woman is not qualified to hold her office is she is unwilling to provide the license for any couple who legally qualified for one in their desire for a legal civil marriage. This is a secular civil issue, not a religious one.

  • 111. RnL2008  |  September 2, 2015 at 11:55 am

    The fact that others could have been doing the job is truly IRRELEVANT at this time, Kim Davis instructed her Deputy clerks NOT to issue marriage licenses specifically to Same-Sex couples and ONLY included opposite-sex couples to try and minimize her bigotry……..she will answer for her arrogance and her "god" ISN'T going to help her get out of this.

    In my opinion, she is a HYPOCRITE and a liar and if she can issue a marriage license to a transgender man and his wife, then she can damn well issue marriage licenses to Same-Sex couples overall.

  • 112. TheVirginian722  |  September 2, 2015 at 3:33 pm

    According to Liberty Clown-sel's Supreme Court filing, issuing even one same-sex marriage license would "sear her conscience" and "irreparably damage her" and that "that bell can never be unrung." So, having issued such a license, she apparently is now on the fast lane to hell.

  • 113. RnL2008  |  September 2, 2015 at 3:43 pm

    Well, I've heard the really good party is in hell, but she WOULDN'T fit in with the really cool folks……lol!!!

  • 114. davepCA  |  September 2, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    It would be VERY interesting if, during the hearing tomorrow, the court brings up the matter of that couple she gave a marriage certificate to a few months ago, in which one of the participants is a transgendered man whose birth certificate still shows 'female' as the gender, and asks Davis and the Liberty Counsel to demonstrate any factual, particularized evidence of any "irreparable damage" or "harm" she has experienced as a result of the fact that she issued that certificate….. (cue the crickets and tumbleweeds)…..

  • 115. aiislander  |  September 2, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    As much as I want to see this disgusting woman incarcerated, it is rather obvious that THAT is exactly what Liberty Counsel wants. They want a photo-op of her in bracelets. I think it far better to resist the need for immediate justice and cut her as much slack as we can stand to undermine her team's attempts to martyr her.

    Yes, fines will almost certainly not bring her into compliance, but the more patience the pro equality forces show, the less ammunition it gives our enemies. Meanwhile, we need to provide all the moral support we can to the couples adversely affected by this travesty of justice.

  • 116. RnL2008  |  September 2, 2015 at 3:48 pm

    I agree that jail is what her idiots Counsel wants to drive the point home that "CHRISTIANS" are being persecuted, but the reality is that folks like Davis have been using their religious beliefs to DISCRIMINATE against Gays and Lesbians for the last few years and this stuff NEEDS to stop……..Davis like the baker, the florist and the photographer NEED to face the consequences for their actions!!!

  • 117. aiislander  |  September 2, 2015 at 6:14 pm

    Rose: I agree with you 100%. And my natural inclination is that the legal system has already been far too lenient on this POS, and she should have been incarcerated for contempt long ago. But having followed how the national discussion is playing out, I think the best course at this moment is to start fining the hell out of her for a while and let the stories of her four marriages and two illegitimate children percolate a bit more.

    I realize this is really asking far too much of the affected couples, but for the good of the entire picture, it is simply my judgement that the more restraint we show for a bit longer, the more actual moral high ground we will gain in the minds of otherwise reasonable people.

  • 118. AlexRixan  |  August 20, 2016 at 3:01 am

    based on good works, instead of accepting

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