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Open thread


Open thread for discussion.


  • 1. Mike_Baltimore  |  October 14, 2015 at 3:34 pm

    Most, if not all, of the GOTP presidential candidates will probably not acknowledge any connection with Florida-based 'Periodic Products'. Not for what it does – technology that will allow for the U.S. to obtain the majority of the rare earth elements used in the country each year – but because many (some say 1/2 of the investors) are gays and lesbians.
    (… )

  • 2. Mike_Baltimore  |  October 14, 2015 at 4:49 pm

    'Rand Paul Dismisses Need for LGBT Employment Protection'
    (… )

  • 3. Bruno71  |  October 14, 2015 at 5:43 pm

    Judge Orders Beshear To Weigh In On Altered Rowan County Marriage Licenses

  • 4. guitaristbl  |  October 14, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    Beshear already said they are valid so I guess if he tells so to the judge, this new case is closed ? I don't know how I feel about this whole new chapter of the saga tbh.

  • 5. RobW303  |  October 14, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    To me it's pretty clear: she intentionally altered the licenses in defiance of both the court order and Kentucky law: she needs to pay for it by (at a minimum) being removed from office. She and her counsel claimed the marriages were not valid, then reversed their claim, so the governor should be allowed to do the same. Anyway, it's really not Beshear's call; because the licenses were altered, Davis put them open to challenge, not only within Kentucky but in jurisdictions which are not beholden to Beshear's administration. Even within Kentucky a later administration more strongly opposed to same-sex marriages could still declare the altered licenses are not valid. Only proper licenses can protect against all of this. Furthermore, the mere act of altering the licenses demeans the dignity of the couples who receive them (particularly if only same-sex couples receive altered licenses).

  • 6. stevew999  |  October 14, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    I know the governor said he thought the licenses issued while she was in jail were probably valid (there was, as I recall, only a single change on those…although technically, even that shouldn't have been done), but I have a feeling he didn't know the extent of the changes on the licenses issued after her release (or if he did, he's being a typical politician and trying to stay out of it and hoping it will all go away). Those changes were *substantial*.

  • 7. guitaristbl  |  October 15, 2015 at 8:15 am

    I will admit that I am not fully aware of the changes she made on the licenses to comment on that but let's wait and see what Beshear will do. I am pretty sure that the legislature will change at the very least the licenses to remove the name of the clerk from them (it could get worse and offer them exemptions from issuing or whatever of course – whether those will suceed depends heavily and on who will be elected governor in the November election of course – if it's Bevin LGBT people in Kentucky are screwed really..) – and with such a minor change I would be ok even if it has homophobic motives – but for the ethical order of things to be kept Davis should be impeaced before any change is made (not gonna happen – just saying).

  • 8. stevew999  |  October 14, 2015 at 7:23 pm

    Also, I like that he asked the Libraries and Archives Commissioner to make a statement…I think he's likely to get a more definitive answer from that agency, since the content of the forms is prescribed by law (and they'll likely say exactly that).

  • 9. Bruno71  |  October 14, 2015 at 7:35 pm

    My feeling has always been that this would ultimately be up to the Kentucky Supreme Court to decide. I can't see how Beshear's opinion or the L&A Commish's opinion changes that fact. I'm not sure even Bunning can assess the licenses' validity without crossing federalist boundaries. However, I do think he could find Davis in contempt again for altering them to begin with.

  • 10. VIRick  |  October 15, 2015 at 9:51 pm

    "I do think he could find Davis in contempt again for altering them …"

    Precisely so.

  • 11. Jaesun100  |  October 14, 2015 at 6:21 pm

    IMO just to air on the side of caution they should be reissued …It's not right to alter license for some and not others …..The wrong judge could render them moot or not legit.

  • 12. Fortguy  |  October 14, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    Marriage licenses typically have beautiful scripting with intricate borders and elaborate embellishments designed to be something of pride for the couple that they would want to show off to friends and relatives. To have scripted text struck through and replaced with different language written with crayon between the lines in some deputy clerk's awkward handwriting is insulting.

  • 13. David_Las_Cruces_NM  |  October 14, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    One small community in Utah ran out of the beautifully scripted, intricately bordered certificates used to print marriage licenses, so they used some blank certificates left over from the previous year's Rutabaga Festival. Instead off receiving a beautiful Certificate of Marriage, the newlyweds received a Certificate of Rutabaga. No one noticed.

    [Just kidding.]

  • 14. Fortguy  |  October 14, 2015 at 10:14 pm

    Maybe in the USVI, when Rick someday gets married, he can receive a license elaborately embellished with bearded gay gogo boys.

  • 15. VIRick  |  October 15, 2015 at 10:13 pm

    "… in the USVI, when Rick …. gets married, he can receive a license elaborately embellished with (hot, cute, smooth, naked) gay gogo boys"

    There. I've gently edited your very complimentary compliment to reflect the totally unabashed truth!!


  • 16. Fortguy  |  October 15, 2015 at 10:19 pm

    Haha! I was merely repeating the gogo boys you described on one of your previous posts!

  • 17. Jaesun100  |  October 15, 2015 at 3:27 am

    So very true…..

  • 18. josejoram  |  October 14, 2015 at 10:55 pm

    In the meanwhile the Civil Union Bill finally advances entering the Italian Senate. It will be discussed – probably – in november, after Budget Bill.

  • 19. JayJonson  |  October 15, 2015 at 7:50 am

    Interesting Associated Press story about a Pennsylvania candidate for Register of Deeds who is challenging D. Bruce Haines and says she will not sign same-sex marriage certificates.

    "An ordained minister running for register of wills in eastern Pennsylvania says she won’t sign-off on same-sex marriage certificates, but won’t obstruct couples from getting the documents.

    Sharon Valentine-Thomas, currently the mayor of Pottstown, is the Republican challenger to D. Bruce Haines, the Democrat incumbent register of wills in Montgomery County.

    Haines made headlines by granting same-sex marriage licenses before it was legal in Pennsylvania.

    Valentine-Thomas says her conscience will not allow her to sign such documents but says, “I am not an obstructionist and will not force my values on others.”

    Instead, if elected she plans to seek court approval to accommodate her beliefs by having her deputies sign such documents.

    She says Kim Davis, the Kentucky clerk who was jailed for five days for refusing to issue the licenses, has a similar accommodation."

  • 20. guitaristbl  |  October 15, 2015 at 8:17 am

    So this woman is running for a job she already knows she cannot do and plans to go down the Davis way to get paid for not doing it. Congrats, some example that was set for people who want jobs they do not want to do really…

  • 21. Zack12  |  October 15, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    Where are the Republicans who screech about welfare queens etc on this?
    This woman wants to run for and be paid fully for a job she has no intention of doing 100 percent.
    Sounds like a leech to me.

  • 22. Montezuma58_1  |  October 15, 2015 at 10:23 am

    The deputies in Kentucky had the authority to sign licenses well before Kim Davis started her crusade. Davis actually prevented her deputies from exercising that authority. To claim Davis was "accommodated" in that respect is way of base.

  • 23. RobW303  |  October 15, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    She's apparently relying on all those religious-bigot dollars rolling in to bolster her campaign and mobilize the conservative vote. Sadly, her ploy may work.

  • 24. guitaristbl  |  October 15, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    I would hope the majority of citizens in Montgomery county will know better.

  • 25. RobW303  |  October 16, 2015 at 2:29 am

    They may know better; the problem is that they're largely too complacent to vote. It's the people mobilized by alarmist lies that turn out, especially in minor election years. Haines will be painted as a renegade who flouted the law, Valentine-Thomas as a crusader for "religious rights".

  • 26. Zack12  |  October 16, 2015 at 6:52 am

    Sad to say but our base doesn't take elections like this seriously and they should.
    People serving in Congress and Senate don't just pop out of nowhere, they often start their political positions in positions such as this while working their way up the food chain.
    And they will make LGBT lives hell all the while.

  • 27. VIRick  |  October 15, 2015 at 10:28 pm

    "Sharon Valentine-Thomas, currently the mayor of Pottstown, is the Republican challenger to D. Bruce Haines, the Democrat incumbent register of wills in Montgomery County."

    Wait! Pottstown is the county seat of Schuylkill County, the same county in which the infamous Santai-Gaffney once primly reigned as the recorder of wills who steadfastly refused to understand the meaning of the word, "No," all the way up to Alito having to tell her "No. No stay," following her vain, foolish multiple appeals in the Pennsylvania marriage case ruling.

    In the aftermath of her intransigence, Santai-Gaffney received a lot of local flack for her 15 minutes of fame, including her name emblazoned on the quite suitably-named Santai-Gaffney rock, on the southern highway approach to Pottstown, there for the entire world to see, in extra-large, bold, rainbow-hued colors. Perhaps the current mayor of the same town is jealous of this brief burst of infamy.

  • 28. TheVirginian722  |  October 16, 2015 at 9:14 am

    Nope, PottsVILLE is the seat of Schuylkill County. PottsTOWN is indeed in Montgomery County and is where Sharon Valentine-Thomas is the Mayor.

  • 29. VIRick  |  October 16, 2015 at 2:13 pm

    Oh yuk! Thanks for the correction. I should have looked that up to be certain I knew what I was talking about.

    Still, Valentine-Thomas may well be jealous of Santai-Gaffney's 15 minutes of fame, and is now attempting to duplicate her fleeting notoriety.

  • 30. TheVirginian722  |  October 16, 2015 at 10:24 pm

    Sharon Valentine-Thomas has little chance of unseating incumbent Register of Wills D. Bruce Haines in Montgomery County, fortunately. She was put on the GOP ticket as a diversity "threefer": a black woman with a hyphenated name. No doubt the Montgomery County Republicans are currently fretting over damage control following her ill-advised remarks against marriage equality, which would certainly not reflect majority sentiment in Montgomery County.

    But up in Schuylkill County is the more intriguing race, as first-term Register of Wills Theresa Santai-Gaffney seeks re-election against her Democratic challenger, Frank DeMarco. Santai-Gaffney struggled to even win renomination in the Republican primary in May. She received 5,011 votes to primary challenger Kerry Ansbach's 4,903. Frank DeMarco, a Saint Clair police officer, was unopposed in the Democratic primary, receiving 6,686 votes.

    Schuylkill County has a traditional Republican lean, but the fact that DeMarco and Ansbach got 11,589 votes, while Santai-Gaffney got only 5,011, indicates that she is in real trouble. Of course, when she ran in 2011, the Keystone Kim was all sweetness and light ("we need to come together") and criticized county officials for filing lawsuits! She only won 52%-48% in 2011, so Schuylkill voters can undo their mistake on November 3.

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